Toto XIV

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Re: Toto XIV

Postby brandonx76 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:22 am

re: Michael and Toto - yeah, that was such a separate type of show by the time Michael came out....my wife and I actually left early...and I'm a HUGE Doobies and Michael fan...it just sounded like jam band 'playing loud' - with 0 dynamics... The quality of the show Toto gives is really, at this stage one of the best live bands I've ever seen. Would be nice to see two (or more) equally capable bands perform when they go out together. Not sure what Yes live will be like
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby JohnH » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:15 pm

DracIsBack wrote:
JohnH wrote:Thanks Joe. And here's hoping they headline - Michael McDonald should have opened for them .


Yeah - they really did kick his ass last year, didn't they? My GF (who is not familiar with either) commented that he looked like he just came from his kitchen, completely out of practice.


They did. His band had no,chemistry, staring at your keyboard and not at the crowd has no business on a stage in 2014. It may have been ok in 1979', but we got chick singers flipping upside down and riding zip lines from the front of the arena to the back, for chris sakes at least look at the crowd.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby WalrusOct9 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:53 am

brandonx76 wrote: Not sure what Yes live will be like


Probably okay if you're a big Yes fan. If not...not sure what your experience will be like. Steve Howe and Chris Squire still sound good, and the new singer does a great job filling some tough shoes. But Alan White should probably have retired a few years ago...tempos dragged and at times it seemed like he could barely play. And this isn't easy music to do night after night in your late 60's.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby MarcelJordan » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:14 pm

Just got my copy. Too cool. :mrgreen:

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Re: Toto XIV

Postby Anymajordude » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:02 pm

I've waited for 25 years to hear Joseph's voice on a Toto record. This is huge! However, I must say the sound is a bit too compressed for my liking. I've ordered the CD from cdjapan but I'll go for the vinyl edition as well, hoping it will sound nicer than the digital version (from what I've heard so far). I'm eternally grateful though to have a new Toto album at all! :)
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby WalrusOct9 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:47 am

Anymajordude wrote:I've waited for 25 years to hear Joseph's voice on a Toto record. This is huge! However, I must say the sound is a bit too compressed for my liking. I've ordered the CD from cdjapan but I'll go for the vinyl edition as well, hoping it will sound nicer than the digital version (from what I've heard so far). I'm eternally grateful though to have a new Toto album at all! :)


Can't be any more compressed than Falling In Between was. :roll:
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby Anymajordude » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:19 pm

WalrusOct9 wrote:
Anymajordude wrote:I've waited for 25 years to hear Joseph's voice on a Toto record. This is huge! However, I must say the sound is a bit too compressed for my liking. I've ordered the CD from cdjapan but I'll go for the vinyl edition as well, hoping it will sound nicer than the digital version (from what I've heard so far). I'm eternally grateful though to have a new Toto album at all! :)


Can't be any more compressed than Falling In Between was. :roll:


Well, let's just say I'm going for the vinyl. I put an order five minutes ago, and hoping for an uncompressed hi-rez version like McCartney did (Band on the run).
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby r@y » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:58 pm

Just heard Toto XIV in its entirety today

Great album overall....but I find myself repeating Burn, Unknown Soldier, All The Tears and Little Things

Burn is VERY good. Freaking awesome chorus. Unknown Solder sees Luke on vocals and its like Toto doing a Kansas/Deep Purple somewhat... :P

LIttle Things is nice with Steve P on vocals.

All The Tears is a sad ballad and lovely to hear a full on ballad again since Melanie (from Mindfields)....Paich's lead vocals with Luke mainly backing him up on the chorus.

Keith's groove is really good too.

All in all, worthy of 100% by Andrew....

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Re: Toto XIV

Postby MarcelJordan » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:54 pm

r@y wrote:Just heard Toto XIV in its entirety today

Great album overall....but I find myself repeating Burn, Unknown Soldier, All The Tears and Little Things

Burn is VERY good. Freaking awesome chorus. Unknown Solder sees Luke on vocals and its like Toto doing a Kansas/Deep Purple somewhat... :P

LIttle Things is nice with Steve P on vocals.

All The Tears is a sad ballad and lovely to hear a full on ballad again since Melanie (from Mindfields)....Paich's lead vocals with Luke mainly backing him up on the chorus.

Keith's groove is really good too.

All in all, worthy of 100% by Andrew....

Cheers

Ray


Burn sounds like Good For You...the chorus similar imo. Yet, has a more serious tone. Burn is indeed one of the highlights. I think worth putting on the radio..seriously I think it will blow minds. :lol:

Little things is typical Steve Porcaro...and that's THE great thing about it. Maybe it's just me but I initially thought the "other" Steve was on vocals when I first heard it. Perhaps both have a similar sonic delivery when Luke sings in a soft tone.

21st Century Blues is a grower. The more I hear the better it sounds and since Im a big Steely Dan fan, I get that feel and quality to it (thus I dig it in a major way!) :mrgreen: . It's bluesy yet, smooth and less organic than a proper Blues. It's goes from Blues to quasi blues and then jazzy as it progresses.

Unknown Soldier sounds to me more Luke than Toto but that's just me I guess. Gives me a tinge of Wanted Dead or Alive (Bon Jovi). I love Kansas, which part in particular Ray? Deep Purple ok :D

About some of the others:

All The Tears, is indeed a sad one. I think it is similar to Thousand Years in the beat structure and Carlock does a pretty close Jeff Porcaro.

Running Out Of Time is something else. It is exquisitely timed (Carlock keeps up with the production and synth programming), but I think it bordering on over produced for my liking, However, as it progresses, it's over before you know it just when I start to immerse myself into it. :twisted:

I heard Bend (nice number it's good but doesn't fit in the album and fairly so). Kinda Peter Gabriel sounding as in Down to Earth (from WallE soundtrack) . But it's clear performed alone by Porcaro and his wizardry.

Fortune is brilliant. Joseph is the difference here to me. It is a very unique tune and I think goes where Toto hadn't been previously but yet there is the Steely Dan influence Toto honing it nicely. Excellent. I think a dark horse for a Grammy, I kid you not. Oh and Michael McDonald is can be heard. 8) I hope the band takes it as a possible single (or is that Frontiers)? Lyrics are also a highlight imo.

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Re: Toto XIV

Postby r@y » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:00 am

In the land of the pigs, the butcher is King..!
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby MarcelJordan » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:55 am

And there you have it. I had nothing to do with that call about Burn :mrgreen:

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Re: Toto XIV

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:00 am

On first listen, "Burn" is contemplative, moody, evocative, melodically dark. So far, most of the XIV songs seem like well-crafted, self-contained pop tunes with a social conscious. Not a slam, just an observation from someone who has yet to hear the entire album.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby Franky » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:39 pm

Anyone noticed the similarity betweeen China Town & Tale of a man ? 8)
By the way lot of the tunes sound little bit like Toto really went back in time, just as they prclaimed (Followup to IV) - or they just digged deep enough to find some lost tapes?
Anyway - Love the music! :D
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby yulog » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:05 am

The more I listen to this cd the better it gets
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:46 am

MarcelJordan wrote:Excellent. I think a dark horse for a Grammy, I kid you not.
MJ

I expect XIV to be a shoo-in for a few MR.com awards. But Grammys? That's about as likely as a full TOTO cover spread in next month's Rolling Stone. If it happens, I'll eat the liner notes. With a few exceptions, the Grammys are as legit as the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby r@y » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:23 pm

On my 10th spin of XIV currently....

I also like how vocal duties were spread on this album compared to FiB. FiB had 10 songs, of which 4 were by Bobby, one a piece for Dave and Greg, with Luke on just 1 song....ok, fine if you consider Simple Life as a full song, then 2. King of The World and No end in Sight were the only 2 tracks where you heard a mix of vocalists.

XIV has Joe really doing only 3 tracks where he is MAIN vocalist. Luke has 2 and Steve P and Dave has 1 a piece. The other 4 tracks have a decent mix of Joe and Luke, and a little Paich in them.

You couldn't hear Luke as much in FiB, but you hear him more on XIV, and he sounds really good IMO....

Fortune and Chinatown are slowly growing on me. Love the 70s vibe of Chinatown.

Unfortunately also IMO....the weakest track on this record is probably The Little Things. It's like Toto doing 90's Bee Gees....IMO...


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Re: Toto XIV

Postby MarcelJordan » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:42 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
MarcelJordan wrote:Excellent. I think a dark horse for a Grammy, I kid you not.
MJ

I expect XIV to be a shoo-in for a few MR.com awards. But Grammys? That's about as likely as a full TOTO cover spread in next month's Rolling Stone. If it happens, I'll eat the liner notes. With a few exceptions, the Grammys are as legit as the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.


Tambu and Mindfields were nominated for engineering as you know so I don't think we can totally discount some sort of nomination. But for Song? Yes, for that I was only trying to make conversation :lol:

That said, CJ Vanston has been nominated for a Grammy before so you can never know. He is a musican himself so musically, Toto could have a chance for a Grammy nod for song too. This could be Toto's final album and perhaps the academy may consider. Not to worry, Im not holding my breath. :mrgreen:

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Re: Toto XIV

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:50 am

MarcelJordan wrote:Tambu and Mindfields were nominated for engineering as you know so I don't think we can totally discount some sort of nomination. But for Song?


Had forgotten all about this, Marcel. Sorry. You may have a point!
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby Sundet » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:50 pm

I have listened to the whole thing a few times now and have some early thoughts on the record.

First of all, I think it is one of the better Toto albums, both in terms of songwriting and performance. You would probably expect nothing less in terms of the latter, but songwriting-wise the band have been up and down over the years. I always thought Joseph was a great songwriter and he proves that here. Bringing him back has certainly boosted the band’s songwriting. None of them are really great lyricists by any stretch of the imagination, and the message comes across as a bit forced or strangely naïve in some of the lyrics, but it still works. Burn, in particular is a great song, as is The Little Things. I have never really been a huge fan of Steve Porcaro’s songwriting, being as his songs often come across as somewhat similar and mellow, but I think he stepped up his game with The Little Things and also Bend, the Japan bonus track.

What is more, I think Steve Porcaro comes across as the better singer on this record, apart from Joseph’s monster vocal delivery of course. I don’t know what Paich has done to his mouth and diction over the years, but he sounds strange somehow. Lukather has improved much vocally the last five or six years after a few rough years, and sounds great here. But I am very much surprised by Steve Porcaro’s vocals here – they are great, and I was not sure what to expect.

What really bugs me with this record is the mix and mastering. The mix is quite muddled, especially the low ends. This might be due to the absolutely horrible mastering though, at least for the CD version. The album is compressed to f—k, and though I am by no means an audiophile this borders on unbearable. How the band could agree to this final master (and possibly mix) is beyond me, but they might not have had much say if Frontiers ran away with it. I expect this record to become Toto’s version of Rush’s Vapor Trails, that was eventually remixed and remastered (fortunately). Hopefully the vinyl version sounds better and cleaner.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby r@y » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:20 pm

Sundet wrote:I have listened to the whole thing a few times now and have some early thoughts on the record.

First of all, I think it is one of the better Toto albums, both in terms of songwriting and performance. You would probably expect nothing less in terms of the latter, but songwriting-wise the band have been up and down over the years. I always thought Joseph was a great songwriter and he proves that here. Bringing him back has certainly boosted the band’s songwriting. None of them are really great lyricists by any stretch of the imagination, and the message comes across as a bit forced or strangely naïve in some of the lyrics, but it still works. Burn, in particular is a great song, as is The Little Things. I have never really been a huge fan of Steve Porcaro’s songwriting, being as his songs often come across as somewhat similar and mellow, but I think he stepped up his game with The Little Things and also Bend, the Japan bonus track.

What is more, I think Steve Porcaro comes across as the better singer on this record, apart from Joseph’s monster vocal delivery of course. I don’t know what Paich has done to his mouth and diction over the years, but he sounds strange somehow. Lukather has improved much vocally the last five or six years after a few rough years, and sounds great here. But I am very much surprised by Steve Porcaro’s vocals here – they are great, and I was not sure what to expect.

What really bugs me with this record is the mix and mastering. The mix is quite muddled, especially the low ends. This might be due to the absolutely horrible mastering though, at least for the CD version. The album is compressed to f—k, and though I am by no means an audiophile this borders on unbearable. How the band could agree to this final master (and possibly mix) is beyond me, but they might not have had much say if Frontiers ran away with it. I expect this record to become Toto’s version of Rush’s Vapor Trails, that was eventually remixed and remastered (fortunately). Hopefully the vinyl version sounds better and cleaner.


Good points....for the most part :mrgreen:

Definitely agree on the added dimension Joe brings to the songwriting process, which is one of the reasons Fahrenheit and 7th One are still one of my favourite of Toto albums.

Not so sure about Steve P though....his vocals were just okay. His voice hasn't changed a whole lot since It's A Feeling from Toto IV days, as with Bend and Little Things here. IMO, his two songs are the slightly weaker ones of the record stacked up against the rest of the tracks.

Paich has always sounded strange...haha. But his vocals were OK from Toto all the way thru Isolation. And then he rarely sang frequently on a Toto record since, except the occasional one song. I recall Luke ( or Bobby ) saying Paich was taking vocal lessons again at that time prior to FiB release, when fans asked in a Q&A would Paich be singing any songs on FiB.

If there was ONE track I could pick as the best of the record, it really has to be Burn. Damn, that is one hell of a track ! It is almost perfect, melodically, lyrically and vocally. That's ALL Joe....and he just burns the song. I just CANNOT believe there was no Luke solo on it :P That was one song which was begging for a Luke guitar solo...haha


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Re: Toto XIV

Postby Anymajordude » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:47 am

Sundet wrote:What really bugs me with this record is the mix and mastering. The mix is quite muddled, especially the low ends. This might be due to the absolutely horrible mastering though, at least for the CD version. The album is compressed to f—k, and though I am by no means an audiophile this borders on unbearable. How the band could agree to this final master (and possibly mix) is beyond me, but they might not have had much say if Frontiers ran away with it. I expect this record to become Toto’s version of Rush’s Vapor Trails, that was eventually remixed and remastered (fortunately). Hopefully the vinyl version sounds better and cleaner.


Looking at the waveforms with an audio editor shows that the songs have been heavily compressed and "brickwalled". Too few people care about good sound these days, or can tell the difference perhaps partly due to low quality playback hardware. Being a hardcore Toto fan since 1988, it puzzels me that a band like Toto, ambassadors of good sound quality and quality in general, find the mastering on this new record acceptable. Or do they? Of course I have no idea who's decision it was and I have ordered the vinyl edition hoping for it to have more dynamics intact.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby Andrew » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:19 am

Sundet wrote:What really bugs me with this record is the mix and mastering. The mix is quite muddled, especially the low ends. This might be due to the absolutely horrible mastering though, at least for the CD version. The album is compressed to f—k, and though I am by no means an audiophile this borders on unbearable. How the band could agree to this final master (and possibly mix) is beyond me, but they might not have had much say if Frontiers ran away with it. I expect this record to become Toto’s version of Rush’s Vapor Trails, that was eventually remixed and remastered (fortunately). Hopefully the vinyl version sounds better and cleaner.


What pish.
So you've illegally downloaded a leaked copy from the internet in a highly compressed format, but feel the need to cast judgement on the sound/mix?

Seriously, this is one of the BEST sounding records I've heard, the production is immense, clear and balanced.

And for the record - my 3 months of pre-listening and review came from fully mastered WAV files, not a promo stream or a pirated MP3 download.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby Sundet » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:36 pm

Andrew wrote:
What pish.
So you've illegally downloaded a leaked copy from the internet in a highly compressed format, but feel the need to cast judgement on the sound/mix?

Seriously, this is one of the BEST sounding records I've heard, the production is immense, clear and balanced.

And for the record - my 3 months of pre-listening and review came from fully mastered WAV files, not a promo stream or a pirated MP3 download.


What allegation is this? Why do you automatically presume that I have "illegaly downloaded a leaked copy from the internet in a highly compressed format" rather than listened to a promo stream for media? This is not the first time you have jumped the gun and I was quite offended. Why not quite simply, and even politely, ask from whence I got a copy of it, rather than jumping to such conclusions?

That being said, I have absolutely no problem with the production. The production is immense, as always with this band. However, mixing and mastering are, as you may know, separate processes and I have a problem with the mastering here (regardless of any compression for purposes of streaming) and possibly the mix, though I am reserving any final judgement on the latter until I have received my proper lossless version of the album.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:58 am

Sundet wrote:I always thought Joseph was a great songwriter and he proves that here. Bringing him back has certainly boosted the band’s songwriting.


And even when Joe was gone, his involvement paid dividends with Joe-era co-writes like "Goin Home" and "Mad About You" being standout tracks. Dave & Joe had a prolific chemistry that was cut short at the end of 7th One.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby St.George » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:27 am

r@y wrote:That was one song which was begging for a Luke guitar solo


What that song is begging for is for a proper music video. The song NEEDS a good video and not the shitty thing they did for "Orphan". I'm totally convinced that it would boost the song to new heights and it would improve sales.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby r@y » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:31 am

St.George wrote:
r@y wrote:That was one song which was begging for a Luke guitar solo


What that song is begging for is for a proper music video. The song NEEDS a good video and not the shitty thing they did for "Orphan". I'm totally convinced that it would boost the song to new heights and it would improve sales.


Yeah....right ?? My thoughts too !

I don't know why, maybe because of the castle halls lyrics, I keep thinking of medieval era knight and damsel in a castle visuals when I listen to Burn :mrgreen:

And finally knight burns the whole castle down and rides off with damsel....


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Re: Toto XIV

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:20 am

Interesting in-depth article all about the creative studio process of XIV. Interviews from most of the guys, including CJ.

http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/ ... xiv/423799
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby TotoFan77 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:38 am

Amazing record.

Just one issue I have, Joe doesn't sing enough on the album. He was underused. Other than that, it's one of their best.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby St.George » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:37 am

TotoFan77 wrote:Amazing record.

Just one issue I have, Joe doesn't sing enough on the album. He was underused. Other than that, it's one of their best.


My thoughts exactly.
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Re: Toto XIV

Postby MarcelJordan » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:32 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Interesting in-depth article all about the creative studio process of XIV. Interviews from most of the guys, including CJ.

http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/ ... xiv/423799


Awesome! Oops. I started a thread on it. Disregard that one then. Cheers TNC. :)

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P.S. Ive removed it. :oops:
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