The criticism about Joe's voice on TSO tour was overblown

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The criticism about Joe's voice on TSO tour was overblown

Postby TotoFan77 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:05 am

So I've listened to a lot of different performances from The Seventh One tour expecting terrible performances and that was simply not the case. Yeah there were a few nights from what I heard that were a bit rough but for the most part, he sounded fine. Where did all this criticism come from regarding this situation, both from the fans and from the band? I mean, why was even fired after the tour? I've heard many of Joe's performances from this tour that were top notch!
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Re: The criticism about Joe's voice on TSO tour was overblow

Postby r@y » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:55 pm

TotoFan77 wrote:So I've listened to a lot of different performances from The Seventh One tour expecting terrible performances and that was simply not the case. Yeah there were a few nights from what I heard that were a bit rough but for the most part, he sounded fine. Where did all this criticism come from regarding this situation, both from the fans and from the band? I mean, why was even fired after the tour? I've heard many of Joe's performances from this tour that were top notch!


Mate, you have to define 'a lot', 'a few', 'many' and 'a bit rough'... a little more than just that.

How many total shows did they do for the Seventh One tour ? And how many of it was Joe's voice was shot ?

Unless you know a decent percentage of the numbers, it's hard to pass judgment just based on 'a few' shows we've either watched live or thru crappy YouTube videos.

As a lead vocalist, I reckon you'd have to 'bring it' to a show most nights, not being inconsistent with some nights on, and some nights off.

Anyway, I don't know the numbers, so I can't pass any educated guess or judgment as to why Joe's live vocals during the seventh one tour was dissed by the fans and the band.

To me, the only comment I am giving is he's bringing it now live, and it's awesome !

Cheers


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Re: The criticism about Joe's voice on TSO tour was overblow

Postby Sundet » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:48 pm

I guess it depends on when the recordings were made. I've heard quite a few recordings from that tour, and I'd say that March (European tour) was pretty much a disaster but that he got his act together for the Japan and US legs of the tour, and the festival dates in the summer. By that point the damage had been done in terms of his relation to the band, however, and for a while JW was apparently certain that his permanent damage had been done to his voice as well. He had a bit of problems back then with substance abuse, which I believe culminated when he was arrested in April 1990 and in December sentenced to rehab.


Here's a run-through of the recordings I have from the 1988 tour as regards his vocals:


First show in Munich, 29 February (?): Sounds okay, albeit a little rough and struggling with the high notes.

Rotterdam, 2 March: Voice beginning to give in. Managed to crawl his way through the songs, but most of his songs were omitted from the radio broadcast for a reason. Band started to get pissed.

Hanover 3 March: By his own account, JW lost his voice at this gig. Was given a shot backstage by a doctor and somehow made his way through the show,

Paris, 6 March: Much worse than Rotterdam. His voice is still audible, but his 'screaming' style of singing comes across more as screaming than singing, and high notes are mostly unreachable for him at this point.

Florence, 16 March: Voice is now almost completely shot and the MTV gig is a bit embarrassing to watch.

Copenhagen 19 March: Somehow slightly better than Florence at first, but by the second half of the show his voice is completely shot.

Stockholm 29 March ('secret' club gig): By far the worst of the lot, featuring a drugged-down and almost voiceless JW, basically replaced by Warren Ham as lead singer in Lukather's 'Da Pinga' band.

London 3 April: Very, very rough, if slightly better than Stockholm and perhaps even Florence. Maybe he took a few days off the coke after Stockholm.

Osaka 20 April: There was probably a gap in the tour between Europe and Japan, which did him good. His voice is in decent shape here, though it is apparent that the set is a hard one to sing even if his voice had been in top shape.

Tokyo 23 April: Same as above - a little rough, but not more than you would expect after a few weeks of touring.

Yokohama 28 April: A little rougher than Osaka and Tokyo, probably owing to the strain of a few consecutive nights on stage.

New Jersey 17 June: A fairly decent performance, on par with Osaka.

Roskilde Festival, Denmark early July: Fair performance, and his voice probably benefits from shuffling the set around a little. Too little, too late, however. The North Dakota state fair on 22 July 1988 proved to be his last gig with Toto until 1998.
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Re: The criticism about Joe's voice on TSO tour was overblow

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:13 am

Here is an excellent old interview with Joe where he provides insight into the role of TOTO lead vocalist and the events leading up to his departure.

http://perplexio76.blogspot.com/2005/11 ... rview.html

Interviewer: Just to quell the rumors, and you don't have to answer this one if you don't want to, would you explain the events leading to your departure from Toto?

Joe: Well we talked about this a little the other night. There's lot's of different stories going around but I think the best, the most truthful way to describe what happened was this: Y'know we had come back to L.A. after the Fahrenheit tour and everybody in the band was real excited about having me in the group and the tour went really well and I talk about this with Steve Porcaro sometimes. And he was still in the band at that time. Those guys did a lot of talking sort of by themselves without really including me. I mean they were the original members of the band and they always really kind of were concerned about whoever was the singer because they had run into different difficulties with their other singers before so they were always kind of y'know having little meetings to assess the situation with the singer- that kind of thing. And Steve told me that y'know after the Fahrenheit album and after the Fahrenheit tour that everybody in the band was really really happy with me being in the band. They were happy with my performance live and everything and they felt, according to Steve, that this might be the guy who's really going to work for the band. And that was nice, it's not always nice to hear that. Following that "Fahrenheit" tour we came back to Los Angeles and started putting songs together for another album and I think of all the guys in the band at that time I think I had probably gotten the closest to David Paich and we hung out a lot and did a lot of songwriting together and that kind of thing and we also drank a lot. Y'know took some drugs and were bad boys and stayed up too late y'know I was pretty much over there pretty much every day. And during the course of that year or nine months or whatever that it took to write the songs and get ready to record the album for The Seventh One or the album which ended up being The Seventh One my health started to get a little bit poor because I had spent too much time partying and hanging out with Dave and I wasn't the only one either. Dave was not on top of is game either by the end of that nine months and the other guys in the band were not only a little bit bugged with my behavior but also with Dave's behavior because we hung out a little bit too much together and weren't taking very good care of ourselves. Anyway we went into the recording of The Seventh One album and it was a little bit different than working on the Fahrenheit album. I guess some of the excitement had worn off for me as far as being in the group it was all brand new when I first came in and first started working on the Fahrenheit album. By the time we got to The Seventh One album maybe I felt like it was a little bit more work and a little less play. Nevertheless though, we did have a pretty good time working on that album. There were a few little arguments and stuff like that but nothing out of the ordinary for a rock and roll band to go through.and I was just starting to get comfortable bein' with these guys and startin' to realize that I was actually really in the band. It took me a long time to really understand that. But anyway we worked on The Seventh One album and it went pretty well and I probably did some of my best singing ever on that record. The guys pushed me a little bit harder on that record, I think, than on the first one. The songs were a little bit more difficult to sing. I think the songs were maybe a little bit better, here and there, on that record. We also brought in a couple of producers to really work on that album with us: George Massenburg and Billy Payne. And when it came time to do lead vocals Dave was really in charge of producing me. And he pushed me pretty hard and we managed to get some really really great vocals on that album. But I think some of the other guys were starting to get concerned about whether or not I was gonna be able to keep it up, so to speak. And to some extent they were right. The problem being that I was letting it get to my head a little bit and wasn't taking very good care of myself. But I was still pretty much on the top of my game- singing wise. And then it came time for The Seventh One tour and we worked on and rehearsed a show that was a lot longer than the Fahrenheit tour. I think the show was two and a half hours or something like that. It had a lot of the Bobby Kimball songs and it had a lot- had a couple of the Fergie songs which I had never done live with them before. Some of the Fergie vocals were higher than the Bobby Kimball vocals and harder for me to sing. And we also had a lot of the songs I had done with them. Some songs off the Fahrenheit record and probably most of The Seventh One record. So it was a really tough show. The Seventh One tour each individual show was actually really hard for me to do. But it was an exciting show, it was a lot of fun. And the tour went pretty well for the first couple of months, the first couple of times out and I think by the time we got to Europe on that tour, my voice was starting to get a little bit tired and I probably wasn't really in the best of health but I was still managing to do the shows. Some of the guys used to complain that I wasn't sounding quite as good as I did on the Fahrenheit tour and that was for several reasons. Mainly because this show was much different. It was a lot harder and it was a lot more work singing wise and also I had become real close hang-out pals with David and we would go out and try and find things to do in all the different cities we went to so I was tired a lot more easily because of those two reasons. So I think what was starting to happen is that some of the other guys were starting to look for a reason to have a problem with me. Not necessarily me personally- they were starting to look for any reason they could to have a problem with the singer again and it didn't take very long for them to find that problem. What ended up happening is I ended up getting a really bad flu when we were out there on the road in Europe and leading up to one particular show, my voice started to get real tired. And eventually on one particular night, and it happened to be in Hanover, Germany again almost a year exactly from when Mike broke his arm. We went out on stage and I had no voice. My voice was gone. I was just so tired and had the flu and everything and I think that pretty much cinched it for the rest of the guys. They didn't have much patience for singers and stuff. And so they were just kinda lookin' for a reason to be upset and I handed ‘em one. So anyway my voice really didn't work that night.. And there's lots of stories goin' around that I sounded like a frog or whatever that kind of thing. The way I remember that particular show is going out on stage and opening my mouth and nothing coming out but air. It probably sounded more like the microphone was broken and that I was opening my mouth and nothin' coming out. So I ran back stage and the manager called the doctor who gave me a shot of something and I went back out on stage and managed to crawl my way through a couple of the hits from Toto IV and by the time that show was over the guys were really kind of pissed. One of the things that I felt bad about and I argued about was that at that time in Toto's career they couldn't really afford to cancel shows that one of the band members wasn't well- that kind of thing. A lot of times you'll hear about artists who play stadiums and theatres and stuff because they have a cold or some reason like that and then they change the dates and come back and do it another time. Toto was never really willing to do that and I think part of that had to do with money and commitments to some of these tour promoters and all that kind of stuff. I mean what should've happened is that a couple of shows should've been shifted around and some time off should've been taken when it was really obvious that I was starting to get sick. But they wouldn't allow that to happen- so I just went ahead and got sick and lost my voice. So it was that that sort of started this kind of anger between me and some of the guys. I thought they should've given me a little bit of a break and they felt that I should've gotten off my butt and taken better care of myself and we crawled our way through that tour. Did the few last shows that we needed to do and came back to Los Angeles. Took a couple of weeks off and then the last show I ever did with the band was in Minot, North Dakota and the managers had set up a private plane to take us over there and we flew over there and I sang fine and everything. But I think the guys had already decided that they were unhappy with me at that point. I could tell on the flight over there and on the flight back it felt kind of like an outsider. It became real obvious. There was one point actually in Europe during "The Seventh One" tour when I felt they were being a little bit hard on me and I told them I didn't really wanna be a part of a band that didn't care about the singer. But I quickly changed my mind when I realized it would be stupid to quit this job so I kind of changed my mind and told everyone I would take better care of myself and get back to how it was in the first tour I did with them, all that kind of stuff. And I was told by one of the guys in the band, probably I think it was Lukather or Dave or one of those guys, that the band was going to take a year off and then come back and start working on another album, that everybody was a little tired and they were gonna take some time off. And I said okay, that's fine. And then the next thing I heard was somebody, a friend or one of my family members called me and said they had read a press release that I had quit and that they were already getting a new singer. So that's how I found out I was out. Nobody from the band called me and actually said, "Okay look we're gonna go with somebody else." I heard from a third party that they had seen a press release that said I had actually quit. And that never really happened. I never formally quit the band. In any case, I made an effort to try and go up to David Paich's house and find out what was goin' on and none of the guys really wanted to talk to me and all that kind of stuff. And finally I called the management office and they told me about this guy, Byron, who was gonna be in the band. And that's how I found out I was out. For the most part that's the true story.
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Re: The criticism about Joe's voice on TSO tour was overblow

Postby r@y » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:22 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Here is an excellent old interview with Joe where he provides insight into the role of TOTO lead vocalist and the events leading up to his departure.

http://perplexio76.blogspot.com/2005/11 ... rview.html

Interviewer: Just to quell the rumors, and you don't have to answer this one if you don't want to, would you explain the events leading to your departure from Toto?

Joe: Well we talked about this a little the other night. There's lot's of different stories going around but I think the best, the most truthful way to describe what happened was this: Y'know we had come back to L.A. after the Fahrenheit tour and everybody in the band was real excited about having me in the group and the tour went really well and I talk about this with Steve Porcaro sometimes. And he was still in the band at that time. Those guys did a lot of talking sort of by themselves without really including me. I mean they were the original members of the band and they always really kind of were concerned about whoever was the singer because they had run into different difficulties with their other singers before so they were always kind of y'know having little meetings to assess the situation with the singer- that kind of thing. And Steve told me that y'know after the Fahrenheit album and after the Fahrenheit tour that everybody in the band was really really happy with me being in the band. They were happy with my performance live and everything and they felt, according to Steve, that this might be the guy who's really going to work for the band. And that was nice, it's not always nice to hear that. Following that "Fahrenheit" tour we came back to Los Angeles and started putting songs together for another album and I think of all the guys in the band at that time I think I had probably gotten the closest to David Paich and we hung out a lot and did a lot of songwriting together and that kind of thing and we also drank a lot. Y'know took some drugs and were bad boys and stayed up too late y'know I was pretty much over there pretty much every day. And during the course of that year or nine months or whatever that it took to write the songs and get ready to record the album for The Seventh One or the album which ended up being The Seventh One my health started to get a little bit poor because I had spent too much time partying and hanging out with Dave and I wasn't the only one either. Dave was not on top of is game either by the end of that nine months and the other guys in the band were not only a little bit bugged with my behavior but also with Dave's behavior because we hung out a little bit too much together and weren't taking very good care of ourselves. Anyway we went into the recording of The Seventh One album and it was a little bit different than working on the Fahrenheit album. I guess some of the excitement had worn off for me as far as being in the group it was all brand new when I first came in and first started working on the Fahrenheit album. By the time we got to The Seventh One album maybe I felt like it was a little bit more work and a little less play. Nevertheless though, we did have a pretty good time working on that album. There were a few little arguments and stuff like that but nothing out of the ordinary for a rock and roll band to go through.and I was just starting to get comfortable bein' with these guys and startin' to realize that I was actually really in the band. It took me a long time to really understand that. But anyway we worked on The Seventh One album and it went pretty well and I probably did some of my best singing ever on that record. The guys pushed me a little bit harder on that record, I think, than on the first one. The songs were a little bit more difficult to sing. I think the songs were maybe a little bit better, here and there, on that record. We also brought in a couple of producers to really work on that album with us: George Massenburg and Billy Payne. And when it came time to do lead vocals Dave was really in charge of producing me. And he pushed me pretty hard and we managed to get some really really great vocals on that album. But I think some of the other guys were starting to get concerned about whether or not I was gonna be able to keep it up, so to speak. And to some extent they were right. The problem being that I was letting it get to my head a little bit and wasn't taking very good care of myself. But I was still pretty much on the top of my game- singing wise. And then it came time for The Seventh One tour and we worked on and rehearsed a show that was a lot longer than the Fahrenheit tour. I think the show was two and a half hours or something like that. It had a lot of the Bobby Kimball songs and it had a lot- had a couple of the Fergie songs which I had never done live with them before. Some of the Fergie vocals were higher than the Bobby Kimball vocals and harder for me to sing. And we also had a lot of the songs I had done with them. Some songs off the Fahrenheit record and probably most of The Seventh One record. So it was a really tough show. The Seventh One tour each individual show was actually really hard for me to do. But it was an exciting show, it was a lot of fun. And the tour went pretty well for the first couple of months, the first couple of times out and I think by the time we got to Europe on that tour, my voice was starting to get a little bit tired and I probably wasn't really in the best of health but I was still managing to do the shows. Some of the guys used to complain that I wasn't sounding quite as good as I did on the Fahrenheit tour and that was for several reasons. Mainly because this show was much different. It was a lot harder and it was a lot more work singing wise and also I had become real close hang-out pals with David and we would go out and try and find things to do in all the different cities we went to so I was tired a lot more easily because of those two reasons. So I think what was starting to happen is that some of the other guys were starting to look for a reason to have a problem with me. Not necessarily me personally- they were starting to look for any reason they could to have a problem with the singer again and it didn't take very long for them to find that problem. What ended up happening is I ended up getting a really bad flu when we were out there on the road in Europe and leading up to one particular show, my voice started to get real tired. And eventually on one particular night, and it happened to be in Hanover, Germany again almost a year exactly from when Mike broke his arm. We went out on stage and I had no voice. My voice was gone. I was just so tired and had the flu and everything and I think that pretty much cinched it for the rest of the guys. They didn't have much patience for singers and stuff. And so they were just kinda lookin' for a reason to be upset and I handed ‘em one. So anyway my voice really didn't work that night.. And there's lots of stories goin' around that I sounded like a frog or whatever that kind of thing. The way I remember that particular show is going out on stage and opening my mouth and nothing coming out but air. It probably sounded more like the microphone was broken and that I was opening my mouth and nothin' coming out. So I ran back stage and the manager called the doctor who gave me a shot of something and I went back out on stage and managed to crawl my way through a couple of the hits from Toto IV and by the time that show was over the guys were really kind of pissed. One of the things that I felt bad about and I argued about was that at that time in Toto's career they couldn't really afford to cancel shows that one of the band members wasn't well- that kind of thing. A lot of times you'll hear about artists who play stadiums and theatres and stuff because they have a cold or some reason like that and then they change the dates and come back and do it another time. Toto was never really willing to do that and I think part of that had to do with money and commitments to some of these tour promoters and all that kind of stuff. I mean what should've happened is that a couple of shows should've been shifted around and some time off should've been taken when it was really obvious that I was starting to get sick. But they wouldn't allow that to happen- so I just went ahead and got sick and lost my voice. So it was that that sort of started this kind of anger between me and some of the guys. I thought they should've given me a little bit of a break and they felt that I should've gotten off my butt and taken better care of myself and we crawled our way through that tour. Did the few last shows that we needed to do and came back to Los Angeles. Took a couple of weeks off and then the last show I ever did with the band was in Minot, North Dakota and the managers had set up a private plane to take us over there and we flew over there and I sang fine and everything. But I think the guys had already decided that they were unhappy with me at that point. I could tell on the flight over there and on the flight back it felt kind of like an outsider. It became real obvious. There was one point actually in Europe during "The Seventh One" tour when I felt they were being a little bit hard on me and I told them I didn't really wanna be a part of a band that didn't care about the singer. But I quickly changed my mind when I realized it would be stupid to quit this job so I kind of changed my mind and told everyone I would take better care of myself and get back to how it was in the first tour I did with them, all that kind of stuff. And I was told by one of the guys in the band, probably I think it was Lukather or Dave or one of those guys, that the band was going to take a year off and then come back and start working on another album, that everybody was a little tired and they were gonna take some time off. And I said okay, that's fine. And then the next thing I heard was somebody, a friend or one of my family members called me and said they had read a press release that I had quit and that they were already getting a new singer. So that's how I found out I was out. Nobody from the band called me and actually said, "Okay look we're gonna go with somebody else." I heard from a third party that they had seen a press release that said I had actually quit. And that never really happened. I never formally quit the band. In any case, I made an effort to try and go up to David Paich's house and find out what was goin' on and none of the guys really wanted to talk to me and all that kind of stuff. And finally I called the management office and they told me about this guy, Byron, who was gonna be in the band. And that's how I found out I was out. For the most part that's the true story.


Thanks for that.

The whole interview was a wonderful read !


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