"As good as or better than Toto???"

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"As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:58 am

Come on Bobby ... seriously?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSvWSYgSM-g

This is truly horrid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSvWSYgSM-g

If some promoter billed this as "Toto", and I paid for it, I'd be absolutely livid.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:27 pm

I believe Bobby's quote referred to his regular touring band featuring Tommy D. Still a ridiculous statement, but this is not that group. This is another pick-up group. Bill Champlin and Steve Augeri were also on the bill.

As for "Africa"....why is there any expectation by fans for him to be able to remotely pull this off? Even with TOTO, Bobby lipped the main chorus. So is anyone really surprised when it sounds like TOTAL shit without tapes?

Unlike some people, I would never tell Bobby to retire. On some mid-range stuff, like "A Million Miles Away" Bobby is capable. Like Elton John, he should be exploring his lower range instead of screaming like a drunken banshee every night.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby WalrusOct9 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:26 am

Bobby actually replied in the comments:

After watching and listening to this video, I agree with all of you that it sounds like shit. However, I need to tell you that in my "In-Ear Monitors", there was so little sound from the Band, and my Microphone sounded like it was not even turned on. I couldn't hear one word I was trying to sing there. It felt like I was screaming into a pillow with no sound from the Microphone in my Monitors. I'm going to click on the "Thumbs-Down" button too. Anytime my Monitors are this terrible, I won't do the Concert. I didn't enjoy not being able to hear my Mic. on this Concert. I'm with you all about this crap.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:48 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I believe Bobby's quote referred to his regular touring band featuring Tommy D. Still a ridiculous statement, but this is not that group. This is another pick-up group. Bill Champlin and Steve Augeri were also on the bill.

As for "Africa"....why is there any expectation by fans for him to be able to remotely pull this off? Even with TOTO, Bobby lipped the main chorus. So is anyone really surprised when it sounds like TOTAL shit without tapes?

Unlike some people, I would never tell Bobby to retire. On some mid-range stuff, like "A Million Miles Away" Bobby is capable. Like Elton John, he should be exploring his lower range instead of screaming like a drunken banshee every night.


Can't believe Bill Champlin is up there playing with these hacks. I can't imagine he needs money like Bobby must.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:28 am

Ehwmatt wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Can't believe Bill Champlin is up there playing with these hacks. I can't imagine he needs money like Bobby must.


I suspect that's exactly why he's up there. He didn't really write any hits for Chicago and the Sons of Champlin was more of a cool cult band. He's probably better off than Bobby but missing that Chicago paycheque.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:30 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:As for "Africa"....why is there any expectation by fans for him to be able to remotely pull this off? Even with TOTO, Bobby lipped the main chorus. So is anyone really surprised when it sounds like TOTAL shit without tapes?


I have no expectation that he can pull it off live. It's more a case of complete surprise that he embarrasses himself like this.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:22 am

I believe Bill and Bobby are very good friends. No idea about his financial situation, or any of these guys. I don't begrudge Bill, Steve, or Bobby from making a living singing songs made famous by bands they once fronted. Bill imo never had a spectacular voice to begin with. Steve A and Bobby are hit or miss, and are singing songs that are challenging for tenors half their age.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby JohnH » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:37 pm

Wow. I am told by an insider that worked with him in a recent project that Bobby is deaf at this point. This explains all these recent concerts where he is always out of tune on even the most simple and easy to sing parts of these songs. It just can't be bad monitors at every gig, that's what soundchecks are for and with today's setting saving digital mixers the settings at soundccheck are saved. I haven't played any big gigs lately with bad monitors, I'm calling BS !!! If you can't hear anymore than singing in tune is going to be IMPOSSIBLE.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Sundet » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:45 pm

JohnH wrote:Wow. I am told by an insider that worked with him in a recent project that Bobby is deaf at this point.


Well, that is sad, especially when your livelihood depends on your hearing.

As for monitor sound etc., monitor settings and sounds are certainly not foolproof even today. It is not more than a couple of years ago that I saw Marillion collectively walk of the stage because of their monitor sound (owing to a faulty mixing desk, as it turned out). As for the Kimball/Champlin gig, however, this clip of Bill's performance doesn't suggest to me that there was much wrong with the monitors. Sounds like a whole other world from Kimball's performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NmfX9EFnjI

Of course, this may suggest that the rumours about Kimball's hearing problems are true. These clips might also point in this direction: It seems as though he has no idea where to come in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkbZCYGj7l4 (Girl Goodbye) and especially this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbc734z_JeE (White Sister).

Very sad.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:15 pm

JohnH wrote:Wow. I am told by an insider that worked with him in a recent project that Bobby is deaf at this point. This explains all these recent concerts where he is always out of tune on even the most simple and easy to sing parts of these songs. It just can't be bad monitors at every gig, that's what soundchecks are for and with today's setting saving digital mixers the settings at soundccheck are saved. I haven't played any big gigs lately with bad monitors, I'm calling BS !!! If you can't hear anymore than singing in tune is going to be IMPOSSIBLE.


If that's the case, what a terrible thing to have happened to him! Sucks when you make your living singing.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:35 pm

Here's a rendition of "Africa" that is very much alive, celebratory, and glorious. Lenny adds FAT depth to the sound. Nobody is phoning it in here and it shows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjZJz5eRJKE
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby JohnH » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:38 pm

And Lenny makes it five people from the original song .
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Sundet » Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:07 pm

Oh my effin' God. If you thought the above clips were bad, take a listen to this attempt at belting out Africa. That is quite simply some of the worst singing I have ever heard, include horrible karaoke nights, shower singing and the screams of agony from one of my team mates when he broke his leg at the tender age of 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7n6iYXiBb8

There is obviously something wrong, something terribly wrong. I used to think that his primary problem was that his voice was shot, but it is very obvious that it's his pitch that is the main problem now.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:20 pm

If he's lost most of his hearing, that would probably explain the increase in pitch problems.

Bobby has never been an 'always on' live singer, but this is much different than before.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:25 pm

Sundet wrote:Oh my effin' God. If you thought the above clips were bad, take a listen to this attempt at belting out Africa. That is quite simply some of the worst singing I have ever heard, include horrible karaoke nights, shower singing and the screams of agony from one of my team mates when he broke his leg at the tender age of 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7n6iYXiBb8

There is obviously something wrong, something terribly wrong. I used to think that his primary problem was that his voice was shot, but it is very obvious that it's his pitch that is the main problem now.

Paich parts sounded OK. Bobby can't sing the high chorus. With TOTO, they used tapes. So why is this surprising?
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Ehwmatt » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:40 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I believe Bill and Bobby are very good friends. No idea about his financial situation, or any of these guys. I don't begrudge Bill, Steve, or Bobby from making a living singing songs made famous by bands they once fronted. Bill imo never had a spectacular voice to begin with. Steve A and Bobby are hit or miss, and are singing songs that are challenging for tenors half their age.


Boy, gotta disagree with you on Bill. Guy has a great voice and tons of soul. Sure, he's not the prototypical 80s high tenor, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a spectacular voice.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:17 am

Ehwmatt wrote:Boy, gotta disagree with you on Bill. Guy has a great voice and tons of soul


Sometimes way too much soul for me.For example - this had me wanting to send him a plate of bran muffins ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VqTZbeiMYM
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Ehwmatt » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:24 pm

DracIsBack wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:Boy, gotta disagree with you on Bill. Guy has a great voice and tons of soul


Sometimes way too much soul for me.For example - this had me wanting to send him a plate of bran muffins ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VqTZbeiMYM


Hah, sometimes he over sings live stuff, I'll give you that. But I generally love his style. Here's a good vid of Champlin performing You're Not Alone with Fergie, Augeri, and Tommy Denander (who's apparently currently locked in a feud with Andrew, Luke, and Vana):

https://www.tv4play.se/program/nyhetsmo ... id=2213319
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:36 pm

Hey cool! Nice to see the Champ performing with Augeri and Fergie, whom I both dug. Fergie sure looks frail here. :-S

Still has a bit too much "constipated Champ" singing for my liking but cool nonetheless.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:50 am

This is vintage Champlin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPabzZ_ceJk

In recent years, I find him to be one of the least credible practitioners of blue eyes soul. He tries to sound soulful and ends up sounding like a guy taking a shit. Buy, hey, it happens.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Ehwmatt » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:39 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:This is vintage Champlin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPabzZ_ceJk

In recent years, I find him to be one of the least credible practitioners of blue eyes soul. He tries to sound soulful and ends up sounding like a guy taking a shit. Buy, hey, it happens.


LOL. I don't totally agree, but that's hilarious.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Sundet » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:16 pm

Ehwmatt wrote:Here's a good vid of Champlin performing You're Not Alone with Fergie, Augeri, and Tommy Denander (who's apparently currently locked in a feud with Andrew, Luke, and Vana)


What's that all about? I always thought Mr. Denander and Mr. Kimball were a nice fit, so to speak, and they apparently both feel a perpetual need to brag about, and even exaggerate, their musical accomplishments.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:38 am

Speaking of Champlin, Joe is better than Peter Cetera in this clip. And Champlin...well, he does his thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmRfYhpKziI
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:51 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Speaking of Champlin, Joe is better than Peter Cetera in this clip.


Naw - I don't agree. I think it's a really good performance, but you can tell Joe is struggling to hit the really high Cetera notes. As high as Joe can sing, Peter Cetera at his peak had one helluva range.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Sundet » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:46 pm

Even Peter Cetera couldn't always hit is own high notes live, great though he was (and is, even though he's recently had to lower a few of the songs). So, being that this is a live performance, Joe did an amazing job. I guess that he could probably still do a full Cetera in a studio situation which, at 55, is pretty good. Most dog whistlers only last for so long.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:26 am

What I've seen from Peter over the past 10 years has been pretty inconsistent at best. People give Scheff crap, but Cetera couldn't do it anymore either. Very impressed with Joe's performance on this tune.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:13 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:What I've seen from Peter over the past 10 years has been pretty inconsistent at best. People give Scheff crap, but Cetera couldn't do it anymore either.


I've seen him several times in the last ten years and sometimes he's better than others. Sometimes sounds spectacular and gets right up there. Other times sounds tired and older.

He's always been a bit inconsistent live, though it always struck me as a bit more based in confidence and boredom than a pitch thing.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Ehwmatt » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:08 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:What I've seen from Peter over the past 10 years has been pretty inconsistent at best. People give Scheff crap, but Cetera couldn't do it anymore either. Very impressed with Joe's performance on this tune.


I saw some pretty strong recent vids of Cetera recently. Dan (Saint John) sent them to me. Joe sounds good on that video too, and I like Scheff. The YouTube vids always make the high voiced guys sound worse if they're a little off. Scheff sounds just fine live for the most part. Also, keep in mind that Peter is 70 now, so he's quite a bit older than these other guys. Unfair to compare in a way...
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:55 am

Ehwmatt wrote:I saw some pretty strong recent vids of Cetera recently. Dan (Saint John) sent them to me. Joe sounds good on that video too, and I like Scheff. The YouTube vids always make the high voiced guys sound worse if they're a little off. Scheff sounds just fine live for the most part. Also, keep in mind that Peter is 70 now, so he's quite a bit older than these other guys. Unfair to compare in a way...


Good points for sure. I do think Jason gets picked on a bit excessively. And yeah, at almost 71, Peter Cetera can still get his moments for sure. :-)

Hard Habit To Break
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjcm9buu8Go

Feeling Stronger Everyday/25 or 6 to 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzcbN61ly_k

Dialogue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCNdY5cFKlg

And of course, the one that has people talking right now ... I'm A Man. Mostly because he picked up a bass and played in a concert for the first time in decades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DPv7OOt7iw
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Sundet » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:29 pm

DracIsBack wrote:Hard Habit To Break
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjcm9buu8Go


Not bad at all. He still has it. But it must also be remembered that, unlike Jason Scheff and Bobby Kimball, Cetera and Joe Williams haven't toured their vocal chords to death over the years. That surely must make a difference.

Oh, and at 71 Cetera has no business having a full head of hair like that.
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