"As good as or better than Toto???"

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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:57 pm

Sundet wrote:Cetera and Joe Williams haven't toured their vocal chords to death over the years. That surely must make a difference.


No doubt. For a long time, it didn't look like he'd ever play live again. He took a ten year hiatus after leaving the band; did a small tour; then took another seven years off. Now he's playing more "frequently" meaning he plays shows every year. But his idea of touring is like 10-20 shows a year, whereas his old bandmates do ten times that.

I think Jason's voice is holding up pretty well given his age. Big fitness kick he's on must be helping.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Sundet » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:54 pm

DracIsBack wrote:
I think Jason's voice is holding up pretty well given his age. Big fitness kick he's on must be helping.


If he sings within his range, his voice is alright. The problems occur when he doesn't.

As for fitness, losing weight sure did wonders to Joe Williams. I was kind of surprised he had put so much on; back in the 80s he seemed underweight and skinny, though it might of course have been the coke.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:19 pm

Sundet wrote:As for fitness, losing weight sure did wonders to Joe Williams


Yeah, though he seems to have put it back on over the last two years. Can't really judge though, getting a little older has caused me to gain weight where I never used to gain an ounce
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:23 am

Bobby seemed fairly fit around the time of Mindfields. Now he needs exercise and a vocal coach.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:49 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Bobby seemed fairly fit around the time of Mindfields. Now he needs exercise and a vocal coach.


If he's deaf (or nearly so as has been reported), I'm not sure what he can do.

If that's the case, I must confess, I feel pretty guilty for slagging on his performances. But he probably should retire if he can afford to because he wouldn't be able to perform his job anymore.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Ehwmatt » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:14 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Bobby seemed fairly fit around the time of Mindfields. Now he needs exercise and a vocal coach.


I mean, Mindfields was 16 years ago now. Hard to compare.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:13 am

Ehwmatt wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Bobby seemed fairly fit around the time of Mindfields. Now he needs exercise and a vocal coach.


I mean, Mindfields was 16 years ago now. Hard to compare.



I don't know. 16 years have gone by and Luke looks better and is singing pretty strong. Sy hasn't changed that much physically either.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby WalrusOct9 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:46 am

The trick to growing old as a singer is to sing for your old voice, rather than keep trying to sound exactly how you did 30+ years earlier. There's a reason Robert Plant isn't doing Zeppelin and Steve Perry isn't doing Journey. I randomly saw Tom Jones last year, and he sounded like a 70-year old Tom Jones, which was it's own unique, awesome thing, because he knew how to use it.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Ehwmatt » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:37 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Bobby seemed fairly fit around the time of Mindfields. Now he needs exercise and a vocal coach.


I mean, Mindfields was 16 years ago now. Hard to compare.



I don't know. 16 years have gone by and Luke looks better and is singing pretty strong. Sy hasn't changed that much physically either.


Apples to oranges man. Luke is 57, Bobby is 68. Luke also doesn't sing in a higher register for the most part. Again, huge difference in my view. I'm not saying that Bobby couldn't get into better shape physically than he appears to be in right now, but I think time has caught up to him in ways that wouldn't change even if he were a fitness freak.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Ehwmatt » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:38 am

WalrusOct9 wrote:The trick to growing old as a singer is to sing for your old voice, rather than keep trying to sound exactly how you did 30+ years earlier. There's a reason Robert Plant isn't doing Zeppelin and Steve Perry isn't doing Journey. I randomly saw Tom Jones last year, and he sounded like a 70-year old Tom Jones, which was it's own unique, awesome thing, because he knew how to use it.


Right, and that's decidedly harder for the tenor guys like those you mentioned. Good example: Robert Lamm vs. Peter Cetera. Cetera, though still sounding pretty good, has undoubtedly "lost more" than Lamm has. Lamm sings in that lower register crooner-type voice, Cetera sang as high as almost anybody in his prime. I think that's exactly what you're saying here.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:05 pm

Ehwmatt wrote:Apples to oranges man. Luke is 57, Bobby is 68.


Eh, I guess. You mentioned Robert Lamm. He's 70 and not a fatass. But I digress. I think Bobby prolly doesn't care. But there could be other issues. Look @ Mike Reno. Lost the weight and gained it all back.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby WalrusOct9 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:07 am

Ehwmatt wrote:
WalrusOct9 wrote:The trick to growing old as a singer is to sing for your old voice, rather than keep trying to sound exactly how you did 30+ years earlier. There's a reason Robert Plant isn't doing Zeppelin and Steve Perry isn't doing Journey. I randomly saw Tom Jones last year, and he sounded like a 70-year old Tom Jones, which was it's own unique, awesome thing, because he knew how to use it.


Right, and that's decidedly harder for the tenor guys like those you mentioned. Good example: Robert Lamm vs. Peter Cetera. Cetera, though still sounding pretty good, has undoubtedly "lost more" than Lamm has. Lamm sings in that lower register crooner-type voice, Cetera sang as high as almost anybody in his prime. I think that's exactly what you're saying here.


Well, I meant more like, Plant and Tom Jones are doing new music that fit them at their age, rather than doing nothing but singing their old songs and pretending like nothing's different. Perry chose to not sing at all, for whatever reason, but I am 99% positive a lot of it has to do with him not quite knowing how to 'be Steve Perry' in his 60's, or at least lacking the confidence to do so (which is a bummer).
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Sundet » Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:26 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:Apples to oranges man. Luke is 57, Bobby is 68.


Eh, I guess. You mentioned Robert Lamm. He's 70 and not a fatass. But I digress. I think Bobby prolly doesn't care. But there could be other issues. Look @ Mike Reno. Lost the weight and gained it all back.


One of the best rock vocalists in the industry, Steve Hogarth* of Marillion (and you have to give the man credit for his voice and range, whether or not you like the music or preferred them with Fish) has certainly never been a fatass, and his voice has always been fantastic, but he went on record at some point to say that he had done a bit of pre-tour physical exercise and lost a wee bit of weight, and that this had substantial effect on his voice and range.

In other words, there is a strong correlation between physical shape and vocal ability. I think Bobby Kimball, too, would gain much from doing a bit of exercise and losing a few pounds.

*Not many can pull this off at 56: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2YKMcT1jPQ
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:32 am

WalrusOct9 wrote:I am 99% positive a lot of it has to do with him not quite knowing how to 'be Steve Perry' in his 60's, or at least lacking the confidence to do so (which is a bummer).


Agree. And it is a bummer. I loved seeing him sing with the Eels again, no matter how merciless fans can be.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby WalrusOct9 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:22 am

DracIsBack wrote:
WalrusOct9 wrote:I am 99% positive a lot of it has to do with him not quite knowing how to 'be Steve Perry' in his 60's, or at least lacking the confidence to do so (which is a bummer).


Agree. And it is a bummer. I loved seeing him sing with the Eels again, no matter how merciless fans can be.



The videos were great, but the Eels were playing at about 1/4th the volume level as a real rock band, and playing the songs at least two whole steps down from the originals. Wish he could find a way to do some new things in that vein, so at least he'd be singing.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:26 pm

WalrusOct9 wrote:The videos were great, but the Eels were playing at about 1/4th the volume level as a real rock band, and playing the songs at least two whole steps down from the originals.


See quote above about mericiless. :-) When you read the Youtube comments, lowered key gets turned into "OMG - he can't sing anymore" which is ridiculous!

Wish he could find a way to do some new things in that vein, so at least he'd be singing.


My fav tune he did with the Eels was actually the cover of their tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbaj_exxsZU

What I also thought was cool was that some of the biggest "welcome back" cheers came from - Soto, Augeri, and Pineda.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:44 am

The Perry performances with the Eels proved what many fans already knew to be true. On slow ballads, Perry can still perform. Perry imbued the Eels "It's a Motherfucker" with all the heart-wrenching pathos and signature vocal delivery of a big Journey ballad. On the uptempo stuff, like Lovin, Touchin, Squeezin, he just doesn't have it anymore. That's my opinion. Same thing with Kimball. On slower stuff, like Million Miles Away, he sounds not bad. Then he tries to rock out live on something like "Hold The Line" and his voice cracks like a china doll.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Franky » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:33 am

Sundet wrote:
DracIsBack wrote:Hard Habit To Break
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjcm9buu8Go


Not bad at all. He still has it. But it must also be remembered that, unlike Jason Scheff and Bobby Kimball, Cetera and Joe Williams haven't toured their vocal chords to death over the years. That surely must make a difference.

Oh, and at 71 Cetera has no business having a full head of hair like that.



71 ?! Oh my god - We can't be aged that much too ?! .... :oops:
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Morten » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:42 am

So, according to several comments posted by Bobby himself below the YouTube video mentioned at the beginning of this thread (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSvWSYgSM-g), after this vid was posted, he went to see a vocal doctor at a university hospital in Germany, and since then, he's been able to sing better than ever:

I just went to a University Hospital yesterday in Germany, and spent about 3 hours with a brilliant Vocal Doctor. He did so muc h work on my Vocal Cords, and then we checked out the best Vocal Warm-Up details I've ever seen. After we worked on that for a while, I was singing notes like I never could in my whole life. Now I'll be able to sing anything i want, better that I ever have.

While I was in Germany, I had such a wonderful day at a University Hospital with 2 fantastic Vocal Doctors. After they took a Video of my Vocal Cords, they used a Vocal Cord Machine that I've never seen before, and because it vibrated so much, it made my Voice so much better, and so easier to sing some of the highest notes I've ever been able to. Since that day with those Doctors working on my Vocal Cords, Singing has become the easiest thing I can do now.

I have been working with a fantastic Vocal Coach recently, but while I was Touring in Germany at Münster, I went to a University Hospital with 2 of the best Vocal Doctors I've ever met. One of them placed a Camera into my Throat on my Vocal Cords, and he told me to sing several different pitches for the video he was making. After we were done, he used a vibrating Machine on my Vocal Cords, and this Machine improved my Voice about 100%. I was then able to sing anything better than I ever have in my whole life. He also Coached me on a New Voice Warm-Up method, and it works so fantastic, after I do it, I can sing any high or low notes I want or need to sing. I'm loving how this Doctor improved my Voice, and I'm having so much more fun doing Concerts now because of what he did for me. Even if I am older, I can now sing better than when I was 25 years old.

So, has anyone seen any recent videos that back this up?

(And What's with his Habit of Capitalizing random Words?)
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby tedpruitt » Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:13 am

So, has anyone seen any recent videos that back this up?


Ummmmm... not so much...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5PASwDwiV8
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:52 am

tedpruitt wrote:
So, has anyone seen any recent videos that back this up?


Ummmmm... not so much...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5PASwDwiV8


That clip is not from Sept 2015. It's from 2013 (original link below). While I doubt Bobby's voice has improved dramatically, I give the guy tons of credit for being fan-friendly and a road dog into his twilight years. Same goes for Lou Gramm, Meat Loaf, Mike Reno, Mickey Thomas, Deyoung, Coverdale, etc. etc. etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbUT368P6RA
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:59 am

Morten wrote:(And What's with his Habit of Capitalizing random Words?)


I'm assuming he posts using his smart phone.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:30 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:That clip is not from Sept 2015. It's from 2013 (original link below). While I doubt Bobby's voice has improved dramatically, I give the guy tons of credit for being fan-friendly and a road dog into his twilight years. Same goes for Lou Gramm, Meat Loaf, Mike Reno, Mickey Thomas, Deyoung, Coverdale, etc. etc. etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbUT368P6RA



DeYoung is a weird case where unlike many of his contemporaries, his voice has held up quite well.

I give Lou Gramm props for dramatic improvement from where he was in the early 2000s to today.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby WalrusOct9 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:47 am

DracIsBack wrote:
See quote above about mericiless. :-) When you read the Youtube comments, lowered key gets turned into "OMG - he can't sing anymore" which is ridiculous!


He can still sing. But he can't sing in Journey. If he ever did another solo show, it'd have to be similar to this Eels thing, with new stuff that fits his current voice, and old songs drastically re-arranged (kind of like Robert Plant does with Zep tunes at his solo gigs).

I do feel for the guy a little, but it's also kind of his own fault. Dropping off the face of the earth for 20 years (and really 7-8 years between Raised On Radio and Strange Medicine before that) means people's only mental image of him is from 1981. Perry/Journey's contemporaries have tempered expectations over the past few decades simply by continuing to exist and being on TV occasionally, so realistically everyone in attendance knows they're not seeing the same band they saw in 1978. And I think Perry knows this, and it's kind of paralyzed his musical career.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Ehwmatt » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:43 pm

DracIsBack wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:That clip is not from Sept 2015. It's from 2013 (original link below). While I doubt Bobby's voice has improved dramatically, I give the guy tons of credit for being fan-friendly and a road dog into his twilight years. Same goes for Lou Gramm, Meat Loaf, Mike Reno, Mickey Thomas, Deyoung, Coverdale, etc. etc. etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbUT368P6RA



DeYoung is a weird case where unlike many of his contemporaries, his voice has held up quite well.

I give Lou Gramm props for dramatic improvement from where he was in the early 2000s to today.


"Weird case" might be a bit unfair to DDY, as unlike many of his contemporaries, I think he lived pretty cleanly and took decent care of himself. Even today, he's pretty lean and appears in good shape for a guy pushing 70. I'm sure some of it's luck, but he's definitely taken good care of himself, and that has to help with his longevity.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby WalrusOct9 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:27 am

Ehwmatt wrote:
"Weird case" might be a bit unfair to DDY, as unlike many of his contemporaries, I think he lived pretty cleanly and took decent care of himself. Even today, he's pretty lean and appears in good shape for a guy pushing 70. I'm sure some of it's luck, but he's definitely taken good care of himself, and that has to help with his longevity.


It doesn't hurt. See also: Springsteen.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:32 pm

WalrusOct9 wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:
"Weird case" might be a bit unfair to DDY, as unlike many of his contemporaries, I think he lived pretty cleanly and took decent care of himself. Even today, he's pretty lean and appears in good shape for a guy pushing 70. I'm sure some of it's luck, but he's definitely taken good care of himself, and that has to help with his longevity.


It doesn't hurt. See also: Springsteen.


He definitely takes good care of himself too. In his case, his voice had a lot less to lose than guys like DDY and other high-singing peers, though. I do like Springsteen a lot.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby DracIsBack » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:16 pm

Ehwmatt wrote:"Weird case" might be a bit unfair to DDY, as unlike many of his contemporaries, I think he lived pretty cleanly and took decent care of himself. Even today, he's pretty lean and appears in good shape for a guy pushing 70. I'm sure some of it's luck, but he's definitely taken good care of himself, and that has to help with his longevity.


Fair enough. Just saying, most tenors his age have lost range - some more than other. DeYoung - based upon what I've seen - still seems to be able to do everything in the original key without trouble.

I saw him once on Canadian Idol with Roger Hodgson from Supertramp and was surprised that both could really pull of what they could at their ages. It really was the exception the rule.
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Re: "As good as or better than Toto???"

Postby Sundet » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:28 pm

I think lifestyle is key to maintaining the voice. I think almost everyone's voice drop a little bit with age, but that doesn't have to mean you can't hit high notes or sing high songs in their original key, though the latter, I guess, becomes the exception. It's not only a matter of taking care of yourself once you pass, say, 50, but I think a lot depends on how good you've taken care of yourself since your 20s. Look at someone like Fish, who used to sing with Marillion. His voice was absolutely shot when he reached 35. That's what years of smoking and hard partying do to you. I think a similar argument may be made of Lukather, though his lifestyle the last six or seven years has done wonders to him and his voice; but, still, he is paying for past decades of smoking and staying up late.

Not sure what life Joe Williams has lived. It was rough for a good few years during and after he was in Toto (at least up until his drug bust and rehab in 1990), but I guess he has lived relatively healthily for a good 25 years, and it shows in his singing.

I'd quitting smoking, or preferably never having smoked at all, is an absolute must if you want to maintain your voice into your fifties and sixties.
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