Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

All things Toto

Moderator: Andrew

Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:07 pm

As far as I know, (and if I'm wrong, correct me), Kingdom of Desire is the only title track not to have been written by TOTO or a band member. Mindfields was a band credit. Fahrenheit was a band credit. Isolation was a band credit. And so on it goes. KOD is arguably TOTO's heaviest song and a great track it is. But for a band not known for using outside writers, how did this song come to be? I've always been curious.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12410
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby WalrusOct9 » Tue May 03, 2016 1:00 am

I think it's the only album with songs written by outsiders, no? (not counting TTLG, of course) I think I've read "Kick Down The Walls" was more or less forced on them by Kortchmar or the label, but no idea what the story behind the title track was.
-Steve C.
User avatar
WalrusOct9
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:13 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby TotoFan77 » Tue May 03, 2016 6:14 am

No, Fahrenheit was the first record with outside writers. Randy Goodrum co-wrote I'll Be Over You. Then on TSO, he co-wrote Anna and These Chains. Also, Joseph William's brother co-wrote A Thousand Years on the same record and Jimmy Webb co-wrote Home Of The Brave. Byron had help with Love Has The Power on Past to Present.

Stan Lynch was all over the writing on Tambu, he pretty co-wrote every track on that record. Fee Waybill co-wrote On The Run on XX. (Plus, Baba Mnumzane was an outside job but I don't know if that's a cover or an original Toto song) There were a ton of outside writers again for Mindfields and of course there were writers again for XIV.

Falling In Between is the only record since Isolation to have no outside help with the writing (unless you count Steve Porcaro on King Of The World who wasn't a member at the time lol) I prefer having outside writers help with the lyrics, it adds more variety.
TotoFan77
Ol' 78
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:51 am

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue May 03, 2016 10:41 am

TotoFan77 wrote:No, Fahrenheit was the first record with outside writers. Randy Goodrum co-wrote I'll Be Over You. Then on TSO, he co-wrote Anna and These Chains. Also, Joseph William's brother co-wrote A Thousand Years on the same record and Jimmy Webb co-wrote Home Of The Brave. Byron had help with Love Has The Power on Past to Present.

Stan Lynch was all over the writing on Tambu, he pretty co-wrote every track on that record. Fee Waybill co-wrote On The Run on XX. (Plus, Baba Mnumzane was an outside job but I don't know if that's a cover or an original Toto song) There were a ton of outside writers again for Mindfields and of course there were writers again for XIV.

Falling In Between is the only record since Isolation to have no outside help with the writing (unless you count Steve Porcaro on King Of The World who wasn't a member at the time lol) I prefer having outside writers help with the lyrics, it adds more variety.


Just to be clear, my post said "Kingdom of Desire is the only title track not to have been written by TOTO or a band member." The examples you listed above are not title tracks and they are all band co-writes. Of course, the band has collaborated with others previously (Goodrum and Luke is an especially obvious one).
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12410
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby TotoFan77 » Tue May 03, 2016 11:32 am

Oh I know what were you saying. The way Walrus asked the question, it sounded like he was asking if KOD was the only record to have songs with involvement from outside writers.

Yes, KOD is the only Toto record to have a song with no writers involvement from the band.
TotoFan77
Ol' 78
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:51 am

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby WalrusOct9 » Wed May 04, 2016 3:41 am

I meant completely written by outside writer(s). I know there were earlier tunes with co-writes, but they still had a band member involved. Hell, Luke even got a Diane Warren co-write on his solo album, which is among the more absurd, random things he's done.

I'm still curious how the KoD tracks happened. My guess is the title track was organic, that Kortchmar played it for them and they liked it. It definitely fit in the vibe of the album. The other track, must've just been a label thing (It's notably absent from current digital versions of the album).
-Steve C.
User avatar
WalrusOct9
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:13 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed May 04, 2016 11:23 pm

I like "Kick Down the Walls" myself. My KOD cd does not have it sadly. KOD needed one more uptempo track like it,
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12410
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby WalrusOct9 » Thu May 05, 2016 12:55 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I like "Kick Down the Walls" myself. My KOD cd does not have it sadly. KOD needed one more uptempo track like it,


You'd make a great early 90's Sony exec, then. :lol:
-Steve C.
User avatar
WalrusOct9
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:13 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri May 06, 2016 11:25 am

WalrusOct9 wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:I like "Kick Down the Walls" myself. My KOD cd does not have it sadly. KOD needed one more uptempo track like it,


You'd make a great early 90's Sony exec, then. :lol:


Nah, if that was the case, I would have brought Byron back to sing it. :wink:
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12410
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby St.George » Sat May 07, 2016 5:33 pm

"Kick Down The Walls" was eliminated from the CD as a show of respect to Jeff. It seems that he didn't like the song, neither his drumming on it, so the song disappeared on the 2nd pressing of the CD.
User avatar
St.George
Ol' 78
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 9:59 pm

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat May 07, 2016 11:36 pm

St.George wrote:"Kick Down The Walls" was eliminated from the CD as a show of respect to Jeff. It seems that he didn't like the song, neither his drumming on it, so the song disappeared on the 2nd pressing of the CD.


Thanks. Never knew that. I can understand the criticism that it's a little poppy. But you know, TOTO has always been a medley of influences.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12410
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby DracIsBack » Mon May 16, 2016 9:48 am

St.George wrote:"Kick Down The Walls" was eliminated from the CD as a show of respect to Jeff. It seems that he didn't like the song, neither his drumming on it, so the song disappeared on the 2nd pressing of the CD.



I had no idea. I like that song myself. Did they add something in its place?

That album was released at such a weird time. Jeff on the recording, but not the tour. Toto on Sony internationally, but the album not released until some time later and on an indie label.

Weirdly, my Kingdom of Desire copy was actually released by Sony Music Canada!
DracIsBack
8 Track
 
Posts: 730
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:04 am

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby WalrusOct9 » Tue May 17, 2016 2:13 am

DracIsBack wrote:
I had no idea. I like that song myself. Did they add something in its place?


I think there's just versions with 11 tracks instead of 12. I have no idea if it's because the band were forced into recording it and just didn't like the song, or if they had a falling out with Kortchmar and wanted to reduce his royalties (since they couldn't really nix the title track, could they?). I'm guessing the former, since they've played the KoD title track since then and even put it on that 2007 live album. Kind of a curious footnote in Toto history though.
-Steve C.
User avatar
WalrusOct9
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:13 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby JohnH » Tue May 17, 2016 5:34 am

What ??? They took off KDTW??!!! WTF??!! I just reordered the CD new, but cancelled the order and got the original on Ebay. My original got scratched. I just don't agree with this at all. Thanks for the heads up!!!
Last edited by JohnH on Tue May 17, 2016 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
JohnH
8 Track
 
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:48 pm
Location: Whittier, CA, 25 Miles East of LA

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue May 17, 2016 11:23 am

JohnH wrote:What ??? They took off KDTW??!!! WTF??!! I just reordered the CD new, but cancelled the order and got the original on Ebay. My original got scratched. I just don't agree with this at all. Thanks for the heads up!!!


I was pissed when my copy arrived without KDTW too, John. I dig that song. :?
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12410
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby JohnH » Wed May 18, 2016 12:29 am

I read Luke doesn't like it. It was Jeff's band and I thought nothing got done without his final approval , taking it off because of Jeff doesn't make sense. There must a a lot of stuff Jeff didn't like re writing history by removing stuff isn't fair to fans.
JohnH
8 Track
 
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:48 pm
Location: Whittier, CA, 25 Miles East of LA

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby JohnH » Wed May 18, 2016 5:23 am

Info here. The song was JEFF's IDEA to bring in-and he loved it- so removing it because of him doesn't add up. It looks like it's Luke's idea to can it.

http://www.toto99.com/blog2010/index.ph ... WALLS.html
JohnH
8 Track
 
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:48 pm
Location: Whittier, CA, 25 Miles East of LA

Re: Story behind Kingdom of Desire?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed May 18, 2016 7:29 am

Great song regardless.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12410
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca


Return to Toto

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests