MR

I was giving "Serpent" a spin, and thought of something. What if DDY had written Babe for that album and then wrote Grove of Eglantine for Cornerstone. Now I know lyrically he wouldn't have written Grove for Cornerstone, but this is of course hypothetical.

*Would there be any band upheaval like there was for Babe?
*Would have Styx never been propelled to the status they attained later on Paradise?
*Would it have been released as a single? If not, then what would have?
*What would have happened to Babe?
edit: assume that other tracks on both albums remain the same.

Lot's of questions raised just by swapping two songs!


If it pains you to imagine this scenario, an alternative would be; What if Babe was on Styx II and Lady was put on Cornerstone?

KWH17 wrote:I was giving "Serpent" a spin, and thought of something. What if DDY had written Babe for that album and then wrote Grove of Eglantine for Cornerstone. Now I know lyrically he wouldn't have written Grove for Cornerstone, but this is of course hypothetical.

*Would there be any band upheaval like there was for Babe?
*Would have Styx never been propelled to the status they attained later on Paradise?
*Would it have been released as a single? If not, then what would have?
*What would have happened to Babe?
edit: assume that other tracks on both albums remain the same.

Lot's of questions raised just by swapping two songs!


If it pains you to imagine this scenario, an alternative would be; What if Babe was on Styx II and Lady was put on Cornerstone?

Would there be any band upheaval like there was for Babe? Yes Grove is one of the worst Styx songs ever, Plexi is the worst, but Grove is in my top 5 worst Styx songs. They would have fired DDY for writing crap like this after his string of great songs.

Would have Styx never been propelled to the status they attained later on Paradise? YEs and No. If they would have hired DDY back after writing Grove then yes. If they would have moved on, with anyone else no. Paradise is a work of art, no matter what came before or after.

Would it have been released as a single? If not, then what would have? Grove a single, your joking right? If it had been a single, then look out world...one of the biggest turds have been laid. But Boat or Lights would have been good singles.

What would have happened to Babe? A one of kid birthday present for the love of his life, and a much sought after bootleg.

assume that other tracks on both albums remain the same. that is assuming alot, considering they let him come back after writng that

If it pains you to imagine this scenario, an alternative would be; What if Babe was on Styx II and Lady was put on Cornerstone? Both would have been hits.

Damn i thought you were gonna talk about tommy's solo album what if...

Would there be any band upheaval like there was for Babe? Yes Grove is one of the worst Styx songs ever, Plexi is the worst, but Grove is in my top 5 worst Styx songs. They would have fired DDY for writing crap like this after his string of great songs.

But what about She Cares? It wasn't slow like Babe, but I'd say it was in a similar league of context. [note: I didn't say similar quality]

Would have Styx never been propelled to the status they attained later on Paradise? YEs and No. If they would have hired DDY back after writing Grove then yes. If they would have moved on, with anyone else no. Paradise is a work of art, no matter what came before or after.

Agreed

Would it have been released as a single? If not, then what would have? Grove a single, your joking right? If it had been a single, then look out world...one of the biggest turds have been laid. But Boat or Lights would have been good singles.

Agreed, but if the record company still wanted a "love song" hit then I would choose Never Say Never over First Time.

What would have happened to Babe? A one of kid birthday present for the love of his life, and a much sought after bootleg.

assume that other tracks on both albums remain the same. that is assuming alot, considering they let him come back after writng that

If it pains you to imagine this scenario, an alternative would be; What if Babe was on Styx II and Lady was put on Cornerstone? Both would have been hits.

True, but would have Babe done it for them like Lady did back in 1974?

"Babe" would have become the band's first hit single in 1974; that is, if Wooden Nickel had the sense to promote it.. Was there even a single from "Serpent"? Once "Babe" became big, they probably still would have gone back and re-released "Lady", so.. I don't know that too much would have changed. It's hard to say, though. I mean, obviously, with the success of "Lady", DDY knew what types of songs were more likely to be hits than others, and he didn't really start taking advantage of this formula until the "Cornerstone" time period; so, we still probably would have had the rock oriented albums like "Equinox", "Crystall Ball", etc, etc.. Having big hits such as "Babe" and "Lady" behind them, maybe songs like "Lorelei", "Light Up", "Crystall Ball", and "Jennifer" would have scored higher on the charts.

"Grove" was an obscure album track on "Serpent", and would have been so on "Cornerstone" as well. Hell, maybe "First Time" would have been the first single from "Cornerstone"? Then since there wouldn't have been a second wimpy ballad to argue about, Dennis wouldn't have been kicked out, and we would have enjoyed either "Lights" or "Why Me", along with "Borrowed Time".

For what it's worth, this topic makes for some good brainstorming on the, "what might have beens", and I enjoy it, but for God's sake, they have GOT to put out some new material!!!!

Grove is a much better song than Babe. PERIOD.

THAT was highly unexpected.

I personally recognize Babe as the better song, but I have more fun listening to Grove.


I've thought more on this and come to the conclusion that if Grove was on Cornerstone, it would not take the spot Babe had. It COULD fit between Why Me and Never Say Never, but I think it does better before Midnight. Of course, having First Time and Grove on the same side would be confusing, so First Time would probably be moved to Babe's spot.

Idk, I'm not good at reorganizing whole albums!

BlackWall wrote:"Babe" would have become the band's first hit single in 1974; that is, if Wooden Nickel had the sense to promote it.. Was there even a single from "Serpent"? Once "Babe" became big, they probably still would have gone back and re-released "Lady", so.. I don't know that too much would have changed. It's hard to say, though. I mean, obviously, with the success of "Lady", DDY knew what types of songs were more likely to be hits than others, and he didn't really start taking advantage of this formula until the "Cornerstone" time period; so, we still probably would have had the rock oriented albums like "Equinox", "Crystall Ball", etc, etc.. Having big hits such as "Babe" and "Lady" behind them, maybe songs like "Lorelei", "Light Up", "Crystall Ball", and "Jennifer" would have scored higher on the charts.

"Grove" was an obscure album track on "Serpent", and would have been so on "Cornerstone" as well. Hell, maybe "First Time" would have been the first single from "Cornerstone"? Then since there wouldn't have been a second wimpy ballad to argue about, Dennis wouldn't have been kicked out, and we would have enjoyed either "Lights" or "Why Me", along with "Borrowed Time".

For what it's worth, this topic makes for some good brainstorming on the, "what might have beens", and I enjoy it, but for God's sake, they have GOT to put out some new material!!!!

Hard to do that when you don't have a record contract. No record company wants to touch them - any of them - they are a losing financial proposition. The non existent sales wouldn't justify the cost to make the new music. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's true.

brywool wrote:Grove is a much better song than Babe. PERIOD.

Wow....nice taste you have buddy....an obscure song about a woman's hoo hah is better than a number 1 million selling, award winning, Grammy nominated single .

brywool wrote:Grove is a much better song than Babe. PERIOD.

Say what?

Toph wrote:

brywool wrote:Grove is a much better song than Babe. PERIOD.

Wow....nice taste you have buddy....an obscure song about a woman's hoo hah is better than a number 1 million selling, award winning, Grammy nominated single .

Never thought i'd say this but i agree with toph (sort of)