POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Paradise Theater

Moderator: Andrew

What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Nothing Better than it is
4
25%
A Huge Monster Hit
4
25%
Bad Feelings Again
5
31%
$100 Million Dollar Tour
2
13%
Just another Live DVD
1
6%
 
Total votes : 16

Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Monker » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:07 pm

Toph wrote:I think Dennis would have brought some pop sensibilities to the album. Lots of interesting material here, but as Tom Petty says in his song Into the Great Wide Open, "The A&R man says I don't hear a single," I think that is what we have here with The Mission. Interesting album and theme, but lacks the one song that will stand out and be mainstream enough to potentially warrant airplay. Or they might have just decided that there was no way they would get airplay in 2017. However, the radio friendly ballad or pop ditty might have gotten some airplay on Adult Contemporary stations. Journey was able to do that with "After All These Years."

But stay tuned for Toph's unbiased review of The Mission (when I can write it up). Some good, some bad, but I'm taking my personal feelings as to how the band treated Dennis off the table and judging the music only!


Dennis has not had "pop sensibilities" since 1991. None on BNW, none on 100yrs, certainly none on 10 on Broadway or Hunchback.

"I don't hear the hit." such an out of context quote that I'm tired of reading about regarding this release. . This is what the AOR man said to Tom Petty when he turned in "Full Moon Fever". What you don't quote is the next line "the future was wide open." In other words, fuck the AOR man, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Most of these songs could be singles...I'm sure Styx knows that. However, the top 40 singles chart isn't too accepting to a 70/80's band trying to break into the charts again...and they are not aiming at AC radio.

The only negative thing I can find about this release is that it seems a couple songs too short. I would have liked to hear something like "These Are the Times" on it. But, I would rather be wanting more than thinking the songs on it were lacking. They are not lacking much at all. I wish this had been released after Cyclorama....I think they would have had a lot of airplay. I mean, Walrus had airplay...these songs are better than Walrus.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:20 am

S2M wrote:Just like the post-Perry incarnation jumped with 'Arrival. Sorry folks...Generations, Revelation, and Eclipse bit the big one.


Such a sweeping statement. Even if you don't like these albums, there is some valid stuff on there. Aside from Generations, I think Revelation and Eclipse are more consistent than Raised on Radio.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby S2M » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:23 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
S2M wrote:Just like the post-Perry incarnation jumped with 'Arrival. Sorry folks...Generations, Revelation, and Eclipse bit the big one.


Such a sweeping statement. Even if you don't like these albums, there is some valid stuff on there. Aside from Generations, I think Revelation and Eclipse are more consistent than Raised on Radio.



I just finished watching "Don't Stop Belivin' Everyman's Journey. I really enjoyed it. But it cemented something I've thought since Arnel first joined. The rags to riches story did more to his success(and Journey's) than his talent. He has diction issues. He absolutely KILLS the vowels - extended, and short. But his consonant sounds leave much to be desired. He trails off the last word/sounds of a line, and it just doesn't sound very professional. Perhaps that's a function of being out of breath from jumping around like a weirdo. Perry never did this much.

As far as Revelation, and more on Eclipse - the majority of songs are just plain horrible. 'Like a Sunshower' is probably the most Journey-sounding song they recorded with Arnel. Would be very much at home on Infinity, Evolution, or Departure.

Deep down I'm glad they had close to 10 more years in the spotlight. But it was extremely mediocre. And it's the same with Gowan and Styx. Actually Cyclorama is better than post-Perry release, save for 'Arrival'. Augeri SLAYED that release.

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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Boomchild » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:25 am

Toph wrote:
Boomchild wrote:
Toph wrote:
But stay tuned for Toph's unbiased review of The Mission (when I can write it up). Some good, some bad, but I'm taking my personal feelings as to how the band treated Dennis off the table and judging the music only!


Time will tell but I think people here are skeptical on this. Based on past experiences.


At least I gave it a listen...


I'll give you that. I wouldn't have expected it.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Toph » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:40 am

Monker wrote:
Toph wrote:I think Dennis would have brought some pop sensibilities to the album. Lots of interesting material here, but as Tom Petty says in his song Into the Great Wide Open, "The A&R man says I don't hear a single," I think that is what we have here with The Mission. Interesting album and theme, but lacks the one song that will stand out and be mainstream enough to potentially warrant airplay. Or they might have just decided that there was no way they would get airplay in 2017. However, the radio friendly ballad or pop ditty might have gotten some airplay on Adult Contemporary stations. Journey was able to do that with "After All These Years."

But stay tuned for Toph's unbiased review of The Mission (when I can write it up). Some good, some bad, but I'm taking my personal feelings as to how the band treated Dennis off the table and judging the music only!


Dennis has not had "pop sensibilities" since 1991. None on BNW, none on 100yrs, certainly none on 10 on Broadway or Hunchback.

"I don't hear the hit." such an out of context quote that I'm tired of reading about regarding this release. . This is what the AOR man said to Tom Petty when he turned in "Full Moon Fever". What you don't quote is the next line "the future was wide open." In other words, fuck the AOR man, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Most of these songs could be singles...I'm sure Styx knows that. However, the top 40 singles chart isn't too accepting to a 70/80's band trying to break into the charts again...and they are not aiming at AC radio.

The only negative thing I can find about this release is that it seems a couple songs too short. I would have liked to hear something like "These Are the Times" on it. But, I would rather be wanting more than thinking the songs on it were lacking. They are not lacking much at all. I wish this had been released after Cyclorama....I think they would have had a lot of airplay. I mean, Walrus had airplay...these songs are better than Walrus.


Dead wrong, monkey boy. Dennis hit the charts in Canada with 100 Years From Now title track. Styx hasn't sniffed the charts since "Paradise" in 1996 and believe that was a DDY song. There were a number of songs that could have charted off 100 Years on AC. I don't hear a single that could crack that chart or the mainstream rock chart or the Hot 100 on this release. This will be like a Rush album. No real airplay on any mainstream stations. They will rely on fans and viralness to get the songs out. Which ultimately means that at a summer Styx show of 3 bands, no one will have heard any songs off this release. Now if they play the 1000 seat solo shows, they may be able to get more of these out live. But this release won't go mainstream. Not in a million years. Not that it is a criticism - its just a fact. They should be making music for themselves and their fans now anyway.

But I do think that for the first week it will land in the top 30 on the Top 200 albums. Although Brusco is an asshole, he's a good marketer and he leveraged all of these preorders and vinyl and package sales to maximize sales in the first week out. So, every pre-order gets counted toward the first week sales. Furthermore, those packages of 89.99 where you get 3 LPs 2 CDs, and a cassette taped in JY's living room (Out on A Day Pass reference for those of you who don't get it) will count as multiple units. I actually think they have an outside chance at landing in the top 10 for their first week chart. Lindsey Buckingham/Christy McVie debuted at #17. And I don't think they had the marketing muscle behind their LP that Styx had. Give Brusco credit, he set them up nicely. Of course he has that second week in which to generate sales. He's used up all his ammunition on the first week. So, you'll see a debut at #12 the first week and keep your fingers crossed it stays on the chart the second week.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Jodes » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:26 am

Dennis hit the charts in Quebec.. Not the rest of Canada.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Archetype » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:13 pm

Jodes wrote:Dennis hit the charts in Quebec.. Not the rest of Canada.


And that was largely due to the fact that Eric Lapointe appeared on the album.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Toph » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:22 pm

Archetype wrote:
Jodes wrote:Dennis hit the charts in Quebec.. Not the rest of Canada.


And that was largely due to the fact that Eric Lapointe appeared on the album.


You realize the last Tommy Shaw song to hit any chart was "Too Much Time On My Hands?" We're at 36 years and counting of Shaw NOT having a hit record with Styx
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Boomchild » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:35 pm

Archetype wrote:
Jodes wrote:Dennis hit the charts in Quebec.. Not the rest of Canada.


And that was largely due to the fact that Eric Lapointe appeared on the album.


And you know this to be true because??? Both Styx and Dennis have had a strong following in this area of Canada for years. The concerts that Dennis has done post the exposure of OYFN have been exceptionally well attended. I remember him remarking that not long ago during the Christmas season DDY was doing a multi-day show up there. It also has not been uncommon that promoters have asked for additional dates due to the response of booked shows. Man some people just can't give Dennis the credit he deserves. He wrote the song. It was he that looked to partner with Lapointe. The album all came about because of the interest in that region of Canada and the Canadian record label saw the potential of a album of new material from DDY. The album as a whole, as well as his Live from L.A. release sold extremely well there. Keep in mind the Live from L.A. contained no material from OYFN nor a duet with a popular Canadian artist.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby yogi » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:05 pm

[quote="Toph"][quote="Archetype"][quote="Jodes"]Dennis hit the charts in Quebec.. Not the rest of Canada.[/quote]

And that was largely due to the fact that Eric Lapointe appeared on the album.[/quote]

You realize the last Tommy Shaw song to hit any chart was "Too Much Time On My Hands?" We're at 36 years and counting of Shaw NOT having a hit record with Styx[/quote]




'Where You Going Now 'and 'High Enough' were both Tommy Shaw and Jack Blades songs for Damn Yankees. They both charted. 'High Enough' went all the way to #3 in 1990 and 'Where You Going Now ' reached #23 in 1992.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Archetype » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:55 am

Boomchild wrote:
Archetype wrote:
Jodes wrote:Dennis hit the charts in Quebec.. Not the rest of Canada.


And that was largely due to the fact that Eric Lapointe appeared on the album.


And you know this to be true because??? Both Styx and Dennis have had a strong following in this area of Canada for years. The concerts that Dennis has done post the exposure of OYFN have been exceptionally well attended. I remember him remarking that not long ago during the Christmas season DDY was doing a multi-day show up there. It also has not been uncommon that promoters have asked for additional dates due to the response of booked shows. Man some people just can't give Dennis the credit he deserves. He wrote the song. It was he that looked to partner with Lapointe. The album all came about because of the interest in that region of Canada and the Canadian record label saw the potential of a album of new material from DDY. The album as a whole, as well as his Live from L.A. release sold extremely well there. Keep in mind the Live from L.A. contained no material from OYFN nor a duet with a popular Canadian artist.


It isn't a matter of not giving Dennis the credit he deserves. He's one of my favorite artists, and I've paid to see him in concert three times and purchased 100 Years From Now and Desert Moon. He does do well in Canada on his own, but Eric Lapointe gave his presence in Quebec quite a boost. It's impossible to deny that.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Boomchild » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:34 am

Archetypequote wrote:It isn't a matter of not giving Dennis the credit he deserves. He's one of my favorite artists, and I've paid to see him in concert three times and purchased 100 Years From Now and Desert Moon. He does do well in Canada on his own, but Eric Lapointe gave his presence in Quebec quite a boost. It's impossible to deny that.


Not saying that it didn't have something to do with it. As I said before, the song was written by DDY and it was DDY's idea for the duet and who to do it with. An artist is only as good as the song is. Besides that, Styx had a very large and dedicated following in that province of Canada which seems to have carried over to DDY's solo career. I think people are just giving too much credit to Lapointe being part of that recording.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Archetype » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:40 am

Boomchild wrote:
Archetypequote wrote:It isn't a matter of not giving Dennis the credit he deserves. He's one of my favorite artists, and I've paid to see him in concert three times and purchased 100 Years From Now and Desert Moon. He does do well in Canada on his own, but Eric Lapointe gave his presence in Quebec quite a boost. It's impossible to deny that.


Not saying that it didn't have something to do with it. As I said before, the song was written by DDY and it was DDY's idea for the duet and who to do it with. An artist is only as good as the song is. Besides that, Styx had a very large and dedicated following in that province of Canada which seems to have carried over to DDY's solo career. I think people are just giving too much credit to Lapointe being part of that recording.


So it was Dennis' idea to approach Eric Lapointe for a duet. That's good business sense on Dennis' part. If I''m running a company, of course I'm going to approach those who I believe will make my company more successful. Dennis approached Eric and Eric delivered. That's not taking anything away from Dennis. Eric Lapointe brought in an element that Dennis couldn't do on his own and made Dennis more successful, just as Dennis intended.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Boomchild » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:06 am

Archetype wrote:]

So it was Dennis' idea to approach Eric Lapointe for a duet. That's good business sense on Dennis' part. If I''m running a company, of course I'm going to approach those who I believe will make my company more successful. Dennis approached Eric and Eric delivered. That's not taking anything away from Dennis. Eric Lapointe brought in an element that Dennis couldn't do on his own and made Dennis more successful, just as Dennis intended.


Saying Dennis couldn't do it on his own is speculation. Without conducting some type of public poll as to what specifically people liked about that song. Plus DDY's Live from L.A. DVD\CD did just as well in sales as OYFN did in that area of Canada. The difference? No Lapointe or any other Canadian singer on that release.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Archetype » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:22 am

Boomchild wrote:
Archetype wrote:]

So it was Dennis' idea to approach Eric Lapointe for a duet. That's good business sense on Dennis' part. If I''m running a company, of course I'm going to approach those who I believe will make my company more successful. Dennis approached Eric and Eric delivered. That's not taking anything away from Dennis. Eric Lapointe brought in an element that Dennis couldn't do on his own and made Dennis more successful, just as Dennis intended.


Saying Dennis couldn't do it on his own is speculation. Without conducting some type of public poll as to what specifically people liked about that song. Plus DDY's Live from L.A. DVD\CD did just as well in sales as OYFN did in that area of Canada. The difference? No Lapointe or any other Canadian singer on that release.


The LA CD/DVD came out after the Lapointe collaboration, a collaboration that introduced Dennis to a lot of new fans who otherwise wouldn't have discovered him.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Boomchild » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:30 am

Archetype wrote:The LA CD/DVD came out after the Lapointe collaboration, a collaboration that introduced Dennis to a lot of new fans who otherwise wouldn't have discovered him.


Not true. Styx broke and became mainstream in that area of Canada in their early A&M days. Long before they became mainstream in the states. Dennis simply has been lucky enough to have some of that carry over into his solo career. Dennis has said on numerous occasions that his solo success in that area of Canada comes directly from Styx' popularity from back in the 70's. That fans remember him from being in Styx and that it seems that popularity is the main reason he does so well up there. Frankly I'll take the word of the person that has "been there, done that" then an observer.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Monker » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:30 am

Look, having a 'hit' in Quebec, Canada does not equate to a person having any special pop sensibilities.

As for Tommy's hits, that's not even in question. The question was not "what did Tommy bring". If it was, the answer is the entire story and concept, and a big jumpstart to the songwriting.

As for where The Mission will chart. I really don't care. I doubt selling the sets on their fansite will add much, even if they are double counted. They are probably in the hundreds, not thousands. And, BTW, sets are always double counted, even if there are more then two disks.

The album charts today are not like they were 30yrs ago. Not a lot of albums sell, it seems people prefer to buy single songs. This may chart in the top 10 and only sell 15,000 copies (I'm just guessing). It used to take more than 100,000 copies to do that...not any more.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Toph » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:14 am

Boomchild wrote:
Archetype wrote:The LA CD/DVD came out after the Lapointe collaboration, a collaboration that introduced Dennis to a lot of new fans who otherwise wouldn't have discovered him.


Not true. Styx broke and became mainstream in that area of Canada in their early A&M days. Long before they became mainstream in the states. Dennis simply has been lucky enough to have some of that carry over into his solo career. Dennis has said on numerous occasions that his solo success in that area of Canada comes directly from Styx' popularity from back in the 70's. That fans remember him from being in Styx and that it seems that popularity is the main reason he does so well up there. Frankly I'll take the word of the person that has "been there, done that" then an observer.


He had also had recent success there being featured on basically what was the equivalent of "Canadian Idol."
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby blt man » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:07 am

Toph wrote:
Boomchild wrote:
Archetype wrote:The LA CD/DVD came out after the Lapointe collaboration, a collaboration that introduced Dennis to a lot of new fans who otherwise wouldn't have discovered him.


Not true. Styx broke and became mainstream in that area of Canada in their early A&M days. Long before they became mainstream in the states. Dennis simply has been lucky enough to have some of that carry over into his solo career. Dennis has said on numerous occasions that his solo success in that area of Canada comes directly from Styx' popularity from back in the 70's. That fans remember him from being in Styx and that it seems that popularity is the main reason he does so well up there. Frankly I'll take the word of the person that has "been there, done that" then an observer.


He had also had recent success there being featured on basically what was the equivalent of "Canadian Idol."


In 2005 he was on a French Canadian show in the province of Quebec roughly equivalent to idol. After that, he had a string of shows sell out in the province. It was that success that led him to do the duet.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby pinkfloyd1973 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:43 am

Monker wrote:This was Tommy's project. What Dennis would have brought is making it not Tommy's project because - he believes he is responsible bringing all of the bands success. He believes he is responsible for the bands sound. He is responsible for everything the band crated from the debut thru EotC.

So, what Dennis would bring is that attitude, and trying to justify having complete control of the album, and the band...and driving everybody crazy.

Also, since Gowan has such a dominating presence on the album, the answer is that this album would be so different that nobody would recognize it.



Dennis has said in the past that Styx wouldn't be what it was if it hadn't been for the contributions of all it's members
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby S2M » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:40 am

pinkfloyd1973 wrote:
Monker wrote:This was Tommy's project. What Dennis would have brought is making it not Tommy's project because - he believes he is responsible bringing all of the bands success. He believes he is responsible for the bands sound. He is responsible for everything the band crated from the debut thru EotC.

So, what Dennis would bring is that attitude, and trying to justify having complete control of the album, and the band...and driving everybody crazy.

Also, since Gowan has such a dominating presence on the album, the answer is that this album would be so different that nobody would recognize it.



Dennis has said in the past that Styx wouldn't be what it was if it hadn't been for the contributions of all it's members


That's the PUBLIC stock answer...the PC response. And total bullshit.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Archetype » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:19 am

S2M wrote:
pinkfloyd1973 wrote:
Monker wrote:This was Tommy's project. What Dennis would have brought is making it not Tommy's project because - he believes he is responsible bringing all of the bands success. He believes he is responsible for the bands sound. He is responsible for everything the band crated from the debut thru EotC.

So, what Dennis would bring is that attitude, and trying to justify having complete control of the album, and the band...and driving everybody crazy.

Also, since Gowan has such a dominating presence on the album, the answer is that this album would be so different that nobody would recognize it.



Dennis has said in the past that Styx wouldn't be what it was if it hadn't been for the contributions of all it's members


That's the PUBLIC stock answer...the PC response. And total bullshit.


I'm inclined to agree. Chuck, John and JY could have been replaced at any point and most Styx listeners wouldn't have noticed.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby yogi » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:20 am

So True,... and the 1998, 1999 & 2000 New York Yankees could of easily replaced Tino Martinez, Jorge Posada, Bernie Williams, Paul O'Neil, Chuck Knoublouch, Scott Brosius & Chad Curtis and still won all 3 World Series Titles.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Boomchild » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:39 pm

pinkfloyd1973 wrote:
Monker wrote:This was Tommy's project. What Dennis would have brought is making it not Tommy's project because - he believes he is responsible bringing all of the bands success. He believes he is responsible for the bands sound. He is responsible for everything the band crated from the debut thru EotC.

So, what Dennis would bring is that attitude, and trying to justify having complete control of the album, and the band...and driving everybody crazy.

Also, since Gowan has such a dominating presence on the album, the answer is that this album would be so different that nobody would recognize it.



Dennis has said in the past that Styx wouldn't be what it was if it hadn't been for the contributions of all it's members


Pink it ain't worth the time or effort.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby pinkfloyd1973 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:03 am

Boomchild wrote:
pinkfloyd1973 wrote:
Monker wrote:This was Tommy's project. What Dennis would have brought is making it not Tommy's project because - he believes he is responsible bringing all of the bands success. He believes he is responsible for the bands sound. He is responsible for everything the band crated from the debut thru EotC.

So, what Dennis would bring is that attitude, and trying to justify having complete control of the album, and the band...and driving everybody crazy.

Also, since Gowan has such a dominating presence on the album, the answer is that this album would be so different that nobody would recognize it.



Dennis has said in the past that Styx wouldn't be what it was if it hadn't been for the contributions of all it's members


Pink it ain't worth the time or effort.




Yeah, why bother :?
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Monker » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:17 pm

pinkfloyd1973 wrote:Yeah, why bother :?


Because you miss reading my posts so much that you have to show up here once in a while to read them. Once you read them, you just have to reply. It's like an addiction, dude.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby pinkfloyd1973 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:52 pm

Monker wrote:
pinkfloyd1973 wrote:Yeah, why bother :?


Because you miss reading my posts so much that you have to show up here once in a while to read them. Once you read them, you just have to reply. It's like an addiction, dude.




Or, that I actually have a life and you don't



P.S. Still not a dude
"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause."
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Archetype » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:27 am

It's kind of silly to claim how brilliant an artist is because they had a hit in one Canadian province. It's like saying "this guy had a hit in Ohio so obviously he's really good!

I like Dennis a lot. I've purchased two of his solo albums and paid to see him in concert three times. But some of you people get way too worked up and personal about this shit. His success or failure isn't your success or failure.
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Re: POLL: What might Dennis have brought to "The Mission?"

Postby Boomchild » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:35 am

Archetype wrote:It's kind of silly to claim how brilliant an artist is because they had a hit in one Canadian province. It's like saying "this guy had a hit in Ohio so obviously he's really good!

I like Dennis a lot. I've purchased two of his solo albums and paid to see him in concert three times. But some of you people get way too worked up and personal about this shit. His success or failure isn't your success or failure.


Also his level of accomplishment stems way beyond his solo career. I for one think the subject of this thread was pointless to begin with. Especially since they parted ways so long ago. The Styx of today is not the Styx of old. For me it's a completely different animal.
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