The New Survivor Vs. The Old Survivor Official Debate Forum

RIP Frankie's Playtoy

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Which Survivor is/was better?

Late 70's era
2
2%
Early 80's era
32
37%
Middle to late 80's
45
52%
Early to Mid 90's (including the FMS album)
2
2%
Late 90's to 2000
0
No votes
From 2000-2006 (including Jimi Jamison's Survivor "Empires")
1
1%
The Present Survivor era
4
5%
 
Total votes : 86

Postby silvergirl66 » Fri May 18, 2007 4:52 am

geez, can't one day go by without an insult in this place? It's really a drag.
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Postby Slander » Fri May 18, 2007 4:56 am

silvergirl66 wrote:geez, can't one day go by without an insult in this place? It's really a drag.


Silver has Survivor ever played Runway Lights in concert? I think it's one of Bicklers best.
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Postby silvergirl66 » Fri May 18, 2007 5:09 am

Not that I'm aware of.
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Postby jsmac32raider » Fri May 18, 2007 11:16 am

silvergirl66 wrote:

jsmac32raider wrote:
Anyways, yeah man - Take you on a Saturday is classic. If I had to choose 5 songs in which I think Dave's voice is just freakin' unbelievably strong, I suppose it would be (in no particular order): 1)Nothing can shake me from your love. . . 2)Heart's a Lonely Hunter (listen to the middle and the end of that song - it's scary how powerful the man's voice is). . . . .3)I'm Not That Man Anymore. . . . . . . .4)Eye of the Tiger. . . .5)Either Ever Since the World Began or Poor Man's Son. Dang!!!! I'm leaving so many out!. . . .Like "Silver Girl", "Hesitation Dance", "Whole Town's Talkin", "Light of a thousand smiles". . . . ..Shoot, I could go on and on and on and on!!!!



Jack, what's your favorite Dave album? I love Premonition with the debut a close second. But I just love Dave's vocals on Premonition especially Saturday, Hearts and Love is on my Side. Marc is most excellent on drums there too! Have you downloaded the live in Highland off here yet?????



Silver, Preomonition is overlooked in the Survivor catalog. I don't think there is a bad track on the album. Light of A Thousand Smiles is a track I wish they would do in concert. Runway Lights is a terrific track two. It reminds me of Wait For Me by Hall and Oates.




Silvergirl: You're askin' impossible questions girl! I love'em all on Premonition! Seriously, I can't pinpoint one song. I've probably listened to Poor Man's Son the most, but, I constantly listen to that whole CD. "Summer Nights" is a beautiful song. "Love is on my side" kicks ass. Especially the middle portion when Dave starts belting out the "I work on. . . through the night. . . .It's all just a game, she cried, so what!". . . . . .damned good stuff! Man! They all rock!

And Slander: Yup. . ."Runway Lights" is one of my all-time favorite Survivor songs, especially dave's first few lines in the song, before the bass and drums kick in. Love it, love it, love it man!


Later!
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Postby MarcelJordan » Fri May 18, 2007 12:31 pm

[quote="jsmac32raider] jsmac32raider wrote:

I love'em all on Premonition! Seriously, I can't pinpoint one song. I've probably listened to Poor Man's Son the most, but, I constantly listen to that whole CD. "Summer Nights" is a beautiful song. "Love is on my side" kicks ass. Especially the middle portion when Dave starts belting out the "I work on. . . through the night. . . .It's all just a game, she cried, so what!". . . . . .damned good stuff! Man! They all rock!

And Slander: Yup. . ."Runway Lights" is one of my all-time favorite Survivor songs, especially dave's first few lines in the song, before the bass and drums kick in. Love it, love it, love it man!


Later![/quote]

That about sums up my feelings on Premonition to a T. Jacksmac, we've lot of catching up to do! :lol:

Let me just adjust a bit of the above belting Dave EXCELS in, in Love is on my side- if you don't mind :)

WALK on, through the NIGHT
it's all just a game she plays so WELL
In time, I know the tide will be turnin
And she's gonna learn
Shine a light, shine it BRIGHT
And time, will testify I KNOW

Awesome, spectacular, Brilliant! :mrgreen:

Love is on my side, is also where Marc D. shows how hard he pounds on the skins! LOVE IT! 8)
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Postby jsmac32raider » Fri May 18, 2007 2:29 pm

That about sums up my feelings on Premonition to a T. Jacksmac, we've lot of catching up to do! Laughing

Let me just adjust a bit of the above belting Dave EXCELS in, in Love is on my side- if you don't mind Smile

WALK on, through the NIGHT
it's all just a game she plays so WELL
In time, I know the tide will be turnin
And she's gonna learn
Shine a light, shine it BRIGHT
And time, will testify I KNOW

Awesome, spectacular, Brilliant! Mr. Green

Love is on my side, is also where Marc D. shows how hard he pounds on the skins! LOVE IT! Cool



Hey, thanks for correcting me on the lyrics!!! Shame on me - I thought I knew the lyrics of every Survivor song by heart.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Sat May 19, 2007 12:18 am

MarcelJordan wrote:Love is on my side, is also where Marc D. shows how hard he pounds on the skins! LOVE IT! 8)


Droubay is a major secret weapon.

As far as speed and power (my 2 favorite drumming traits) I have him on par with Phil Collins, Deen Castronovo, and Tommy Lee in the rocknroll world.

He's that good.
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Postby Slander » Sat May 19, 2007 1:13 am

Red13JoePa wrote:
MarcelJordan wrote:Love is on my side, is also where Marc D. shows how hard he pounds on the skins! LOVE IT! 8)


Droubay is a major secret weapon.

As far as speed and power (my 2 favorite drumming traits) I have him on par with Phil Collins, Deen Castronovo, and Tommy Lee in the rocknroll world.

He's that good.


In my opinion Marc was never used enough. Espcially after Tiger!
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Postby MarcelJordan » Sat May 19, 2007 2:18 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:
MarcelJordan wrote:Love is on my side, is also where Marc D. shows how hard he pounds on the skins! LOVE IT! 8)


Droubay is a major secret weapon.

As far as speed and power (my 2 favorite drumming traits) I have him on par with Phil Collins, Deen Castronovo, and Tommy Lee in the rocknroll world.

He's that good.


I like Phil Collins but finding it hard to compare with Marc. Marc's BETTER, IMO But sure glad that you compare Marc with Deen and Tommy. 8)
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Postby jsmac32raider » Sat May 19, 2007 2:57 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:

MarcelJordan wrote:
Love is on my side, is also where Marc D. shows how hard he pounds on the skins! LOVE IT! Cool



Droubay is a major secret weapon.

As far as speed and power (my 2 favorite drumming traits) I have him on par with Phil Collins, Deen Castronovo, and Tommy Lee in the rocknroll world.

He's that good.



I like Phil Collins but finding it hard to compare with Marc. Marc's BETTER, IMO But sure glad that you compare Marc with Deen and Tommy. Cool



I'm not sure about all that. . . . . . .Don't get me wrong - Marc's a fantastic drummer and a hell of a cool dude. I had the pleasure of chattin' with him after a couple of shows and he's such a down-to-earth, classy guy. With that being said, when I think of the 'best' drummers. . . .I'm thinking of guys like Neil Peart, Tony Williams, Stewart Copeland, etc., etc. You really can't compare Marc's drumming to that of a master musician like Neil Peart. There's not even a comparison. Neil lives in a whole different league of drummer. At the same time, as you guys have already said, I think that Marc is a way better drummer than Survivor's recorded material EVER displayed. Frankly, there's nothing all that special about most of the drumming on Survivor's recordings. It's when you see Marc live that you really see the power, the passion, the energy and tje THUMP that he puts into those pads.

Premonition is, frankly, the only Survivor CD in which the drums actually even sound loud enough. Most of the other Survivor songs were recorded HORRIBLY with respect to the drums. And this is coming from a guy who knows nothing about the recording of music and what really goes into it. All I know is you listen to an album like Vital Signs and, while you can sense the energy in the drumming, the sound is WAY too soft. Hell, you can barely get any bass drum out of that CD. I've always felt that way. It's really a bummer. Marc should have been given way more freedom to come up with more interesting beats in Survivor's songs. Again, it's only when you see him live that you get to see that. Don't get me wrong, the music of a band like RUSH is way more complex and layered than that of Survivor, but, Steve Smith of Journey was allowed to get WAY more creative in their songs than Marc ever was. And I think we can make a direct comparision between the sound of a band like Journey to that of Survivor.

Am I making ANY sense?
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Postby Red13JoePa » Mon May 21, 2007 12:18 am

jsmac32raider wrote:I'm not sure about all that. . . . . . .Don't get me wrong - Marc's a fantastic drummer and a hell of a cool dude. I had the pleasure of chattin' with him after a couple of shows and he's such a down-to-earth, classy guy. With that being said, when I think of the 'best' drummers. . . .I'm thinking of guys like Neil Peart, Tony Williams, Stewart Copeland, etc., etc. You really can't compare Marc's drumming to that of a master musician like Neil Peart. There's not even a comparison. Neil lives in a whole different league of drummer.


Matter of opionion and publicity, I guess. I prefer the guys I mentioned over the Pearts, Moons and Bonhams.
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Postby Journey/Survivor » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:55 am

Marc Droubay is in my top 4 favorite drummers.

My 4 favorites are....in no particular order... Steve smith, Aynsley Dunbar, Deen Castronovo and Marc Droubay.

Steve smith is technically the most talented drummer in the world IMO, with Dunbar and Castronovo not far behind in that department either. Marc is also a very technically skilled drummer, but what I like most about his drumming is the bold authoritative and gutsy sound he gets out of his drums and the perfect beats and fills to go along with Frankie Sullivan's guitar playing, and with Stephan Ellis bass playing in the past.

It's a definite shame that Ellis isn't still in Survivor because he and Droubay were always gold together.
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Postby Slander » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:02 am

Journey/Survivor wrote:Marc Droubay is in my top 4 favorite drummers.

My 4 favorites are....in no particular order... Steve smith, Aynsley Dunbar, Deen Castronovo and Marc Droubay.

Steve smith is technically the most talented drummer in the world IMO, with Dunbar and Castronovo not far behind in that department either. Marc is also a very technically skilled drummer, but what I like most about his drumming is the bold authoritative and gutsy sound he gets out of his drums and the perfect beats and fills to go along with Frankie Sullivan's guitar playing, and with Stephan Ellis bass playing in the past.

It's a definite shame that Ellis isn't still in Survivor because he and Droubay were always gold together.


Does Ellis have health issues?
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Postby Journey/Survivor » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:15 am

Slander wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:Marc Droubay is in my top 4 favorite drummers.

My 4 favorites are....in no particular order... Steve smith, Aynsley Dunbar, Deen Castronovo and Marc Droubay.

Steve smith is technically the most talented drummer in the world IMO, with Dunbar and Castronovo not far behind in that department either. Marc is also a very technically skilled drummer, but what I like most about his drumming is the bold authoritative and gutsy sound he gets out of his drums and the perfect beats and fills to go along with Frankie Sullivan's guitar playing, and with Stephan Ellis bass playing in the past.

It's a definite shame that Ellis isn't still in Survivor because he and Droubay were always gold together.


Does Ellis have health issues?


I have in confidence been told why he is no longer in the band but I will not post the reason why.
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Postby Slander » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:14 am

Journey/Survivor wrote:
Slander wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:Marc Droubay is in my top 4 favorite drummers.

My 4 favorites are....in no particular order... Steve smith, Aynsley Dunbar, Deen Castronovo and Marc Droubay.

Steve smith is technically the most talented drummer in the world IMO, with Dunbar and Castronovo not far behind in that department either. Marc is also a very technically skilled drummer, but what I like most about his drumming is the bold authoritative and gutsy sound he gets out of his drums and the perfect beats and fills to go along with Frankie Sullivan's guitar playing, and with Stephan Ellis bass playing in the past.

It's a definite shame that Ellis isn't still in Survivor because he and Droubay were always gold together.


Does Ellis have health issues?


I have in confidence been told why he is no longer in the band but I will not post the reason why.


No sweat. I just wondered if he was still playing. I hope he is.
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Postby MarcelJordan » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:17 pm

Journey/Survivor wrote:
Slander wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:Marc Droubay is in my top 4 favorite drummers.

My 4 favorites are....in no particular order... Steve smith, Aynsley Dunbar, Deen Castronovo and Marc Droubay.

Steve smith is technically the most talented drummer in the world IMO, with Dunbar and Castronovo not far behind in that department either. Marc is also a very technically skilled drummer, but what I like most about his drumming is the bold authoritative and gutsy sound he gets out of his drums and the perfect beats and fills to go along with Frankie Sullivan's guitar playing, and with Stephan Ellis bass playing in the past.

It's a definite shame that Ellis isn't still in Survivor because he and Droubay were always gold together.


Does Ellis have health issues?


I have in confidence been told why he is no longer in the band but I will not post the reason why.


I have a question for you J/S. Im a bit fuzzy on how Ellis got into the band. Was he Marc's friend originally or did JP discover him? I've had the impression its the former.
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Postby Journey/Survivor » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:32 pm

MarcelJordan wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:
Slander wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:Marc Droubay is in my top 4 favorite drummers.

My 4 favorites are....in no particular order... Steve smith, Aynsley Dunbar, Deen Castronovo and Marc Droubay.

Steve smith is technically the most talented drummer in the world IMO, with Dunbar and Castronovo not far behind in that department either. Marc is also a very technically skilled drummer, but what I like most about his drumming is the bold authoritative and gutsy sound he gets out of his drums and the perfect beats and fills to go along with Frankie Sullivan's guitar playing, and with Stephan Ellis bass playing in the past.

It's a definite shame that Ellis isn't still in Survivor because he and Droubay were always gold together.


Does Ellis have health issues?


I have in confidence been told why he is no longer in the band but I will not post the reason why.


I have a question for you J/S. Im a bit fuzzy on how Ellis got into the band. Was he Marc's friend originally or did JP discover him? I've had the impression its the former.


Sorry, I just spotted your question for me now.

I had thought that Marc and Stephan had known each other before Survivor. But if you read the liner notes from the most recent Survivor greatest hits CD "Ultimate Survivor" it says that Jim and Frankie were at a Roller Disco in L.A. and that a band was playing, Stephan was the bass player in that band, and they decided to audition him for Survivor and the rest is history.

Frankie had already known Marc Droubay from when Droubay's band would open for Sullivan's band "Mariah" and he thought that Droubay would be perfect for Survivor.
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Postby MarcelJordan » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:24 pm

Journey/Survivor wrote:
MarcelJordan wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:
Slander wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:Marc Droubay is in my top 4 favorite drummers.

My 4 favorites are....in no particular order... Steve smith, Aynsley Dunbar, Deen Castronovo and Marc Droubay.

Steve smith is technically the most talented drummer in the world IMO, with Dunbar and Castronovo not far behind in that department either. Marc is also a very technically skilled drummer, but what I like most about his drumming is the bold authoritative and gutsy sound he gets out of his drums and the perfect beats and fills to go along with Frankie Sullivan's guitar playing, and with Stephan Ellis bass playing in the past.

It's a definite shame that Ellis isn't still in Survivor because he and Droubay were always gold together.


Does Ellis have health issues?


I have in confidence been told why he is no longer in the band but I will not post the reason why.


I have a question for you J/S. Im a bit fuzzy on how Ellis got into the band. Was he Marc's friend originally or did JP discover him? I've had the impression its the former.


Sorry, I just spotted your question for me now.

I had thought that Marc and Stephan had known each other before Survivor. But if you read the liner notes from the most recent Survivor greatest hits CD "Ultimate Survivor" it says that Jim and Frankie were at a Roller Disco in L.A. and that a band was playing, Stephan was the bass player in that band, and they decided to audition him for Survivor and the rest is history.

Frankie had already known Marc Droubay from when Droubay's band would open for Sullivan's band "Mariah" and he thought that Droubay would be perfect for Survivor.


Doh! Forgot about that story on the sleeve of Ultimate. Oh well. So much for theories!
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Postby squirt1 » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:26 pm

The most hits and MTV came with Jimi. Now that Peterik and Jimi are together maybe something new will occur. I could care what Frankie does ! Another ego driven guitar player is born. We want to hear who sang the hits to us in the 70-80's.
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Postby Slander » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:05 am

squirt1 wrote:The most hits and MTV came with Jimi. Now that Peterik and Jimi are together maybe something new will occur. I could care what Frankie does ! Another ego driven guitar player is born. We want to hear who sang the hits to us in the 70-80's.


and if it were not for EYE OF THE TIGER Jimi would not have a following. Oh yeah I forgot Jamo didn't sing that one first or write. He had to borrow it. Jamo is a great vocalist but let's not carried away.
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Postby Irwin M Fletcher » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:44 am

Slander wrote:
squirt1 wrote:The most hits and MTV came with Jimi. Now that Peterik and Jimi are together maybe something new will occur. I could care what Frankie does ! Another ego driven guitar player is born. We want to hear who sang the hits to us in the 70-80's.


and if it were not for EYE OF THE TIGER Jimi would not have a following. Oh yeah I forgot Jamo didn't sing that one first or write. He had to borrow it. Jamo is a great vocalist but let's not carried away.


i loved survivor with JJ but the first 4 albums with Bickler were awesum which proves how great peterik and sullivan were together :D
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Postby survivorfan2005 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:32 pm

Hey guys, just wanted to help clean this board up. So, instead of everyone creating new threads about all the debate about FS, whos the best singer, etc... Please, keep all debates in this thread so it'll help the clutter and please guys be respectful we all have different opinions. Let us not be like the Journey forum so help me out here. It's easier to keep track of who's bashing who here..

just to rev things up a bit I will start a new debate for you all.

Here goes,

The latest singer Robin, as you all know has his roots in heavy metal, what I want to know is what do you want him to bring to this lineup? Would you rather keep the classic Survivor sound, would you rather it to become heavier, or would you want it to be more mellow like artists such as Richard Marx?

Also, after you have answered that question here is another one for you.

95% of the reviews of latest concerts with Robin as lead vocals has been excellent. They all state how good he is and how much energy the band has. However, there are some out there who can't accept the fact that the band needed a new boost and Robin has brought that boost the band needed. My question is this, if all the reviews of Robin are so great then how come there is so much bashing going on?

Seriously, a lot of the "bashing" is from people who probobly hasn't been to a live show with RM yet and they pre-judge him from his past..

Thanks

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Postby MarcelJordan » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:47 pm

Firstly, let me state that the Journey forum is not for everybody. It can get rough but I think Andrew is doing a pretty great job to keep the sanity there.

Now, Im all for your idea to state our opinions here, Survivorfan2005. Kudos that we Survivor fans TRY atleast to be civil here, well on THIS thread atleast! LOL

As for your first great q. I've not problem Survivor getting harder sounding. That said, to me as long its Frankie at the guitar forefront, I really don't see Survivor will deviate and over to the line of heavy metal. ( I don't prefer it atleast).

Regarding to the 2nd part, Robin no doubt is THE quintessential front man. I think the bashing comes up because either, those who bash have NOT seen Survivor perform lately (2 years in that respect), or simply they just don't FEEL his voice fits with the sound. For the latters view we can't force them.

Its a fact, Robin's voice gets some getting used to, but he's very versatile and as JV mentioned recently, the band's playing in the original keys. Now if that doesn't make people come to atleast see some of the shows, then I guess nothing will.

Heck, Im happy for the band, that's what matters to me.
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Postby Andrew » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:18 pm

survivorfan2005 wrote:Hey guys, just wanted to help clean this board up. So, instead of everyone creating new threads about all the debate about FS, whos the best singer, etc... Please, keep all debates in this thread so it'll help the clutter and please guys be respectful we all have different opinions. Let us not be like the Journey forum so help me out here. It's easier to keep track of who's bashing who here..


I didn't realize you were the new moderator in here.
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Postby Eyeof » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:34 pm

well, for one thing they would need to play more than six shows a year and actully come somewhere near most of up in order for us to see them live...
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Postby jrnyman28 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:35 am

I am guilty of not seeing Survivor live with Robin. I haven't been able to. But I have listened to Bootlegs. The jury is still out for me and I do not tend to criticize Robin being a part of the band. My criticisms tend to do with how the band operates (and with how Slander operates). Oddly enough, those are criticisms levelled in the hopes that something might change for the better (with the band and with Slander).
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Postby MarcelJordan » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:33 pm

jrnyman28 wrote:I am guilty of not seeing Survivor live with Robin. I haven't been able to. But I have listened to Bootlegs. The jury is still out for me and I do not tend to criticize Robin being a part of the band. My criticisms tend to do with how the band operates (and with how Slander operates). Oddly enough, those are criticisms levelled in the hopes that something might change for the better (with the band and with Slander).


Exactly how many bootlegs have you listened to? Ive listened to only one. I have my favs. and not so favs. But overall, Robin is clearly capable to me. And for what I've made to understand lately, people are actually enjoying the shows, so Im quite happy.

With regards to critizisms, Andrew will decide.

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Postby survivorfan2005 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:54 pm

Andrew wrote:
survivorfan2005 wrote:Hey guys, just wanted to help clean this board up. So, instead of everyone creating new threads about all the debate about FS, whos the best singer, etc... Please, keep all debates in this thread so it'll help the clutter and please guys be respectful we all have different opinions. Let us not be like the Journey forum so help me out here. It's easier to keep track of who's bashing who here..


I didn't realize you were the new moderator in here.


lol, sorry Andrew, no I'm just a concerned board member and just doing my part as a member to help all the hard workers such as yourself out a little bit.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:03 pm

Well, they are going to play the Weiner Fest in Kalamazoo in early August. And don't forget the Bagel Fest in Tuscaloosa later that month, or the Hellman's Mayonnaise Ping-Pong Amateur Championship in Miami, in the middle of September. Miami of Ohio, yes, but Miami nonetheless.

And don't you worry. Franklin had laid down two tracks in only 16 months - far exceeding Tom Scholz' pace the past 20 years. The new "Survivor" album will be out, no later than 2018. You heard it hear first.
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Postby MarcelJordan » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:11 pm

7 Wishes wrote:Well, they are going to play the Weiner Fest in Kalamazoo in early August. And don't forget the Bagel Fest in Tuscaloosa later that month, or the Hellman's Mayonnaise Ping-Pong Amateur Championship in Miami, in the middle of September. Miami of Ohio, yes, but Miami nonetheless.

And don't you worry. Franklin had laid down two tracks in only 16 months - far exceeding Tom Scholz' pace the past 20 years. The new "Survivor" album will be out, no later than 2018. You heard it hear first.


Too much time on your hands eh? :wink:
2011 New Album by Survivor - RE-ENTRY!
MarcelJordan
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