The New Survivor Vs. The Old Survivor Official Debate Forum

RIP Frankie's Playtoy

Moderator: Andrew

Which Survivor is/was better?

Late 70's era
2
2%
Early 80's era
32
37%
Middle to late 80's
45
52%
Early to Mid 90's (including the FMS album)
2
2%
Late 90's to 2000
0
No votes
From 2000-2006 (including Jimi Jamison's Survivor "Empires")
1
1%
The Present Survivor era
4
5%
 
Total votes : 86

Postby Voyager » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:36 am

Andrew wrote:I'm getting REALLY SERIOUSLY bored of watching you two going at it in EVERY thread on this board. Give it a rest....NOW.

But if they didn't, there wouldn't be any posts in this forum Andrew. I don't know about over in Aussie land, but over here in the USA people love to get into contention. Just watch American Idol. It's the #1 show over here, because people love watching Simon Cowell rip on contestants and shred their egos. Tossing contentious jabs at people is a very popular sport in the USA.

:lol:
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Postby jsmac32raider » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:03 pm

Well, I'd have to completely agree with 7 Wishes with respect to Frankie Sullivan. For a guy who played such a vital role and did such a masterful job in his years with Survivor, Frankie Sullivan is a complete ego-maniac. And as a result, he has completely distroyed Survivor.

Letting Dave Bickler (the greatest singer in all of Rock in my opinion) go, was one thing. At least he replaced him with another fabulous singer.

But, all the hypocracy that took place over the last decade (Dave, Jimi, Dave, Jimi, lawsuits, etc.), all the while without ever releasing a new recording, comletely took Survivor off the map. You gotta put records out if you want your name back out there man. Survivor always sat around and watched as other bands aggressively marketed themselves.

I've been a die hard fan of the band ever since I heard "Poor Man's Son" in 1981.

But what I heard (vocally) on "Dancing with the Stars" a few weeks ago, almost made me embarrassed to be a Survivor fan. That was one of the WORST vocal performances I have ever heard. It made a complete mockery of a great song and of the great lead singer that sang it.

I don't mean to be Mr. Negative but there's nothing positive that can be said about Survivor. I've met Marc Droubay and BS'd with him after shows and he is as cool as they come. But, thanks to Mr. Sullivan, this band has turned into an utter Joke.

"Nothing Can Shake Me", "Heart's a Lonely Hunter", "Rebel Girl", "I'm Not that Man Anymore", "Caught in the Game", "Half-Life", "Take you on a Saturday", "Runway Lights", "Ever Since the World Began", "Burning Bridges", . . . . .

Man, THOSE songs define what Survivor is all about to me. And there were a ton more in between.

If only we could turn back the clock and market this band better. I loved Jimi Jamison. But I truly believe that Dave Bickler is one of the most overlooked vocalists in the history of the music business. What a damn shame that that man sang on so few albums.
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Postby MarcelJordan » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:41 pm

jsmac32raider wrote:Well, I'd have to completely agree with 7 Wishes with respect to Frankie Sullivan. For a guy who played such a vital role and did such a masterful job in his years with Survivor, Frankie Sullivan is a complete ego-maniac. And as a result, he has completely distroyed Survivor.

Letting Dave Bickler (the greatest singer in all of Rock in my opinion) go, was one thing. At least he replaced him with another fabulous singer.

But, all the hypocracy that took place over the last decade (Dave, Jimi, Dave, Jimi, lawsuits, etc.), all the while without ever releasing a new recording, comletely took Survivor off the map. You gotta put records out if you want your name back out there man. Survivor always sat around and watched as other bands aggressively marketed themselves.

I've been a die hard fan of the band ever since I heard "Poor Man's Son" in 1981.

But what I heard (vocally) on "Dancing with the Stars" a few weeks ago, almost made me embarrassed to be a Survivor fan. That was one of the WORST vocal performances I have ever heard. It made a complete mockery of a great song and of the great lead singer that sang it.

I don't mean to be Mr. Negative but there's nothing positive that can be said about Survivor. I've met Marc Droubay and BS'd with him after shows and he is as cool as they come. But, thanks to Mr. Sullivan, this band has turned into an utter Joke.

"Nothing Can Shake Me", "Heart's a Lonely Hunter", "Rebel Girl", "I'm Not that Man Anymore", "Caught in the Game", "Half-Life", "Take you on a Saturday", "Runway Lights", "Ever Since the World Began", "Burning Bridges", . . . . .

Man, THOSE songs define what Survivor is all about to me. And there were a ton more in between.

If only we could turn back the clock and market this band better. I loved Jimi Jamison. But I truly believe that Dave Bickler is one of the most overlooked vocalists in the history of the music business. What a damn shame that that man sang on so few albums.


Sorry you feel that way about Survivor now, but I do agree on your DB comment. :)
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Postby Slander » Tue May 01, 2007 1:24 am

[quote="jsmac32raider"]But what I heard (vocally) on "Dancing with the Stars" a few weeks ago, almost made me embarrassed to be a Survivor fan. That was one of the WORST vocal performances I have ever heard. It made a complete mockery of a great song and of the great lead singer that sang it.
/quote]

I love Dave. Always thought Jimi was cheese. Having said that it's fair to say Robin has been far more successful on his own than Dave or Jim. He brings a lot to the table. He's a better showman than the two. Sorry I don't think that fact is even up for discussion. Sorry you are no longer a Survivor fan you will be replaced by the new fans that Mcauley will bring. His performance wasn't horrible. It's just not the style you are accustomed to. I always HATED Jamison's eye of the tiger. That song belongs to Dave.
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Postby silvergirl66 » Tue May 01, 2007 2:45 am

I'll have to agree with Slander here.....the DWTS performance wasn't that bad now! And look at me....Ima complete Dave nut!
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Postby survivorfan2005 » Tue May 01, 2007 12:35 pm

Yeah, think of all the stuff Robin has been apart of compared to Dave or Jimi. REMEMBER guys, Frankie helped co-write and produce the "Business as Usual" album.. If you liked that album then you WILL love the new Survivor especially whenever material is written for his vocals.
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Postby Slander » Wed May 02, 2007 1:00 am

Let's check the facts. Robin's has been more successful in his own right than either Jimi or Dave. Don't get me wrong, I love Dave, but Robin has a nice resume with MSG. These Jimi fanatics act like Robin was brought in off the street. Jimi has NOT been a solo success. Dave has had success with advertising but not putting out commercial work. The idea that somehow Survivor would be getting better exposure with Jamo on leads is wishful thinking at best. Robin Mcauley is the lead singer of Survivor and it's time to get over it.
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Postby NealIsGod » Wed May 02, 2007 1:03 am

Slander wrote:Robin Mcauley is the lead singer of Survivor and it's time to get over it.


Good luck with that. If they're anything like Perry Loons, they will never get over it and continue to trash the band until Jamison comes back.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Wed May 02, 2007 1:05 am

The BicklerHeads and JamoHeads aren't that bad, NealIsGod.

It's the FrankieLoons who are worrisome.
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Postby Slander » Wed May 02, 2007 1:09 am

Red13JoePa wrote:It's the FrankieLoons who are worrisome.


Red you are better than that. We can either live in the past or look forward. Red have you listened to Robin's solo effort 'BUSINESS AS USUAL?' Just curious. It's good stuff. Frankie and Robin have something. Don't compare it to what was, think about what might be.
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Postby Eyeof » Wed May 02, 2007 1:45 am

who is this Frankie guy everyone keeps talking about?

WHere is stephen Ellis? The real leader of survivor?
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Postby squirt1 » Sun May 06, 2007 1:16 pm

Survivor was pretty big around the time of Vitals Signs. They could sell out 20,000 arenas and were constantly on the radio. I go with Jimi's era. Are all guitar players narcisists ?
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Postby jsmac32raider » Mon May 07, 2007 4:16 pm

Well whatever. . . . .That was the first and only time I've ever heard Robin, so perhaps it's unfair for me to come off as harsh as I did. I hope his other stuff is better. Good lord, I hope it's A LOT better, because I still maintain that that was a truly hideous vocal. I don't care how good a perfomer you are on stage if you sound like crap. There are a lot of great "performers". For me, the bottom line is if I buy your music, it's going to be because you sound great, not because you engage the crowd at a show.

While Dave is my favorite singer, I'm surely biased, but even I would admit that he wasn't exactly an explosive "showman" on stage. But frankly, I never gave a crap. The man could sing and I loved listening to him.

And please. . . . . . . don't compare JJ's live versions of Tiger with that dancing with the stars fiasco. JJ sang Tiger as well as anyone not named Dave has sung that song.

I just don't get it man. . . . . .what type of music exactly was Robin successful with. I'm trying to place the voice I heard that night into some class of music that would sound cool and I can't do it. Does he always sound like that? It sounded like someone whining through the whole song. I don't want to think back on it anymore.

It's giving me another headache.

Again, sorry to sound like a scrooge. I love Survivor man. When they actually sounded like Survivor.

I realize that reality is that bands change singers all the time. But, if you're going to get a guy that sounds SO different than the previous one, he better be damned good. He better bring something totally refreshing to the table. (i.e. AC/DC, Van Halen, etc., etc.). If you can't do that, then you better bring in a guy that sounds at least somewhat similar to the previous guy (i.e. Survivor with JJ, Journey, etc.)

The above comments reflect only my totally worthless points of view and have no bearing at all whatsoever on the real world. . . . . . . . . .

Peace.
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Postby Slander » Tue May 08, 2007 1:09 am

squirt1 wrote:Survivor was pretty big around the time of Vitals Signs. They could sell out 20,000 arenas and were constantly on the radio. I go with Jimi's era. Are all guitar players narcisists ?


NEWSFLASH! Survivor never headlined sellling out 20,000 seat arenas. They headlined for the WSC tour and played small venues. Nice try though. You ever think that Frankie had to play long guitar solo's to save Jimi's voice?
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Postby Slander » Tue May 08, 2007 1:12 am

[quote="I just don't get it man. . . . . .what type of music exactly was Robin successful with. I'm trying to place the voice I heard that night into some class of music that would sound cool and I can't do it. Does he always sound like that? It sounded like someone whining through the whole song. I don't want to think back on it anymore.
[/quote]

Robin was very successful with MSG. Listen, I don't think Jimi every sounded like Survivor. Survivor on Vital Signs sounds nothing like they did on Premonition. So don't give me this Robin doesn't sould like Survivor. Survivor has always moved the bar.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Tue May 08, 2007 1:13 am

Slander wrote:[quote="I just don't get it man. . . . . .what type of music exactly was Robin successful with. I'm trying to place the voice I heard that night into some class of music that would sound cool and I can't do it. Does he always sound like that? It sounded like someone whining through the whole song. I don't want to think back on it anymore.


Robin was very successful with MSG. Listen, I don't think Jimi every sounded like Survivor. Survivor on Vital Signs sounds nothing like they did on Premonition. So don't give me this Robin doesn't sould like Survivor. Survivor has always moved the bar.[/quote]

McCauley, then, gets the benefit of the doubt but not Jamison?
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Postby 7 Wishes » Tue May 08, 2007 10:06 am

Red13JoePa wrote:Robin was very successful with MSG. Listen, I don't think Jimi every sounded like Survivor. Survivor on Vital Signs sounds nothing like they did on Premonition. So don't give me this Robin doesn't sould like Survivor. Survivor has always moved the bar.

McCauley, then, gets the benefit of the doubt but not Jamison?


Francis is still trying to pass off the whole "we decided to replace Jimi" thing with the general public. He's nothing if not a tenacious manipulator of half-truths.

This McCauley thing is pissing me off more every day. He doesn't have the chops to handle either Dave or Jimi's material. Don't give me this "showman" crap, either. It's one thing to have a passable voice (like Diamond Dave) and be a kickass frontman, but the guy can't handle the songs. Personally, I think they should hire Miljenko Matijevic. THAT guy is as good as Sebastian Bach (who, to me, along with Kotipello from Stratovarius, is the flat-out best and ballsiest hard rock vocalist out there).

BTW, anyone who hasn't seen Bach in action...do it. It's one of those once-in-a-lifetime things. The guy is just unreal.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Tue May 08, 2007 10:31 am

I have Bach's live dvd and cd. Not bad, his lead guitartis is UNreal.

Not the bald guy w/ angel wings, the OTHER guy.
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Postby jsmac32raider » Tue May 08, 2007 11:05 am

[Robin was very successful with MSG. Listen, I don't think Jimi every sounded like Survivor. Survivor on Vital Signs sounds nothing like they did on Premonition. So don't give me this Robin doesn't sould like Survivor. Survivor has always moved the bar.]


First of all, when JJ joined the band, the timing very much fell right into the direction the 80's were going for most bands - POP, POP, POP & some more POP. You're right. Vital Signs didn't sound much like old Survivor and WSC sounded NOTHING like it. However, once people got sick of synthesizers for once and for all, Too Hot to Sleep came out and sounded much more like the tougher Survivor of old - still different, but, at least it still had that edge, along with great vocals.

Are you seriously telling me that you enjoyed that vocal on Dancing with the Stars? If you can say that with all honesty - cool man. You're definitely entitled to that opinion. I'm just not buying it myself.
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Postby survivorfan2005 » Tue May 08, 2007 11:28 am

you guys should listen to business as usual then judge Robin.
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Postby IngoK » Tue May 08, 2007 10:52 pm

The style between CITG and Vital Sign was different, a totally new direction, that´s right. Therefore a new direction of the band could/should happen (question is only when..... :wink: ).

I personally liked the DWTS performance. Not what I expected, but something new. Someonelse here at the forum made the comparison to Quiet Riot/Kevin Dubrow. Why not, I like Quiet Riot.

But finally I want to judge over the new Survivor style after they released an Album with Robin McAuley. Singin old stuff is only like karaoke singin and nobody can be successful with it. In my opinion the EOTT Version of Robin didn´t sound good, but Reach and FMS sounded well to me.
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Postby Slander » Wed May 09, 2007 1:18 am

IngoK wrote:The style between CITG and Vital Sign was different, a totally new direction, that´s right. Therefore a new direction of the band could/should happen (question is only when..... :wink: ).
I personally liked the DWTS performance. Not what I expected, but something new. Someonelse here at the forum made the comparison to Quiet Riot/Kevin Dubrow. Why not, I like Quiet Riot.

Like being compared to Quiet Riot is some kind of insult. Survivor should have been so lucky to have an album that sold as well as Metal Health. Survivor also didn't headline the arena's that QR did back in the day. Having said that I hate Quiet Riot. LOL. Survivorfan2005 has asked people to listen to Robin's solo effort "Business As Usual". Frankie produced and played on the album. It's terrific. The songs were put together for Robin's voice. I think the Jamo fans are jealous personally. Robin has been able to stand on his own. Jamo hasn't.
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Postby Slander » Wed May 09, 2007 1:27 am

[quote="7 Wishes"][
This McCauley thing is pissing me off more every day. He doesn't have the chops to handle either Dave or Jimi's material. Don't give me this "showman" crap, either. It's one thing to have a passable voice (like Diamond Dave) and be a kickass frontman, but the guy can't handle the songs. quote]

I would have liked Joe Lynn Turner personally. Having said that, Robin will be just fine once he gets material that is written for him. Jamo did not have the voice to pull off Premonition, Tiger, or Caught. You guys are lying to yourself if you think Jamo pulled off Caught In the Game. It just doesn't work. How about "Take You On A Saturday"? It doesn't work. Jamo is a pop singer. Robin is rock. Time will prove that out.
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Postby IngoK » Wed May 09, 2007 7:05 am

Slander wrote:
"Like being compared to Quiet Riot is some kind of insult.

Don´t agree. The voices of Kevin and Robin are not so far away. That was what was compared.

Slander wrote:
I think the Jamo fans are jealous personally.

Sorry Slander I don´t understand your comment. Everyone who hasn´t your opinion is jealous?
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Postby Red13JoePa » Wed May 09, 2007 7:24 am

IngoK wrote: Sorry Slander I don´t understand your comment. Everyone who hasn´t your opinion is jealous?


Good HEAVEN'S no. It's not that, just everyone who doesn't despise Jamo :P
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Postby Slander » Wed May 09, 2007 7:51 am

IngoK wrote:Slander wrote:
"Like being compared to Quiet Riot is some kind of insult.

Don´t agree. The voices of Kevin and Robin are not so far away. That was what was compared.

Slander wrote:
I think the Jamo fans are jealous personally.

Sorry Slander I don´t understand your comment. Everyone who hasn´t your opinion is jealous?


You misunderstand me. Did you read my post? I'm not saying that being compared to Quiet Riot is an insult. Others are. I don't like Quiet Riot but they are successul. That was the point I'm making.
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Postby MarcelJordan » Wed May 09, 2007 5:43 pm

Slander wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:[
This McCauley thing is pissing me off more every day. He doesn't have the chops to handle either Dave or Jimi's material. Don't give me this "showman" crap, either. It's one thing to have a passable voice (like Diamond Dave) and be a kickass frontman, but the guy can't handle the songs. quote]

How about "Take You On A Saturday"? It doesn't work. Jamo is a pop singer. Robin is rock. Time will prove that out.


Not to derail this, but I am most happy to say that I became a true blue Survivor fan, after playing "Take". It was '85 after the release of VS where I got a pirated VS cassette which included "Take" and it blew my mind. Although Survivor was my fav. band since '82, I never knew Survivor had releases before EYE. but let me say that I could NOT actually differentiate whether it was JJ or DB (my brain scrambled as it were that time), TILL I got Premonition and since then never looked back.

Ironically, I think "Singer not the song" possibly my 3rd fav. Survivor tune despite not being Dave. But NOW the time is Robin's. Let's see what he's got, on a new record...will wait patiently. :twisted:
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Postby IngoK » Wed May 09, 2007 6:31 pm

Agree to you MarcelJordan. Now we have Robin as the singer, that´s the fact and only time will tell.

So let´s wait, hopefully not so long like the years before.
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Postby Slander » Thu May 10, 2007 1:17 am

IngoK wrote:Agree to you MarcelJordan. Now we have Robin as the singer, that´s the fact and only time will tell.

So let´s wait, hopefully not so long like the years before.


Robin has the chops to sing anything. His voice is also not leaving him. This is necessary change.
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Postby MarcelJordan » Thu May 10, 2007 12:08 pm

Slander wrote:
IngoK wrote:Agree to you MarcelJordan. Now we have Robin as the singer, that´s the fact and only time will tell.

So let´s wait, hopefully not so long like the years before.


Robin has the chops to sing anything. His voice is also not leaving him. This is necessary change.


Agreed. It also helps that he's a not a smoker. Great family man , likeable, charismatic AND for posterity same birthday as Marc. :lol:
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