The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[Lula]

Barb and Lula, I responded earlier back there about the misunderstanding. I will respond agaiin. I read it and she said she wasn't talking about her mothering, but that specific incident on stage with the crowd. Really, Barb, I think you just misread it. Peace you guys.

Ok. I misread it. I stand corrected. I apologize, Lula. Let peace & harmony be returned to this thread.

thank you barb.

peace and harmony in the political thread, sure

[csiako]

why do you say she did quite well? all the things you said after that are negatives for SP

because she did do quite well in the debate. i criticized a few things, but overall i think she did quite well. after the debacle of an interview or two, her performance tonight was quite good. i don't agree with her or mccain's policies or philosophy, but that doesn't mean i can't be honest about her performance- my initial feeling was - she did quite well. does that clear it up for ya?

no i am looking for specifics

for real? specifics on what? her performance? she held her own. she didn't make any major mistakes in my eyes. she looked great, tho i'm not too crazy about he highlights.... could be softer .

seriously, i'll answer any question, but i'm not sure what you want to know.

what did she do in the debate that is quite good?
you said she held her own - thats a "she did okey" not a "she did quite good" same with she didn't make any major mistakes in my eyes.

don't see her as an average american or like me as she sells herself, not at a net worth of 1.2 mil. she did use her talking points more than she should have and threw "maverick" out there way too many times.

is a "she did quite bad" and not a "she did quite good"

[Jana]

Csiasko, she did do well. She was poised and responded confidently. She was so awful in the Katie Couric interviews people were waiting for her to stumble. She didn't. But a lot of her responses were general or she didn't answer the questions directly and instead gave some of the campaign's talking points. Biden gave very specific and direct answers to the questions. But I'm sure the Republicans are happy because if she had failed miserably, like what was expected, McCain would be toast (just like SP was at the end of the ROR tour). And the Democrats are happy, no blunders from Biden. For me, I'm happy because Biden was excellent, and my Republican friends are happy because Sarah did a good job.

[Jana]

P.S. On a superficial note, Sarah Palin looked very nice. I like her hair a little darker. And Joe Biden's suit was very nice. He's a handsome man for his age.

[grimlocked]

I said before that McCain was very irresponsible for picking Palin as his VP. Now, I'm beginning to think that picking Palin was the best thing McCain did for the country.

[Lula]

Lord have mercy csiako!! semantics!

overall i thought her performance was good. she did not waiver, she held her own. she threw out a zinger or two at joe. i expected much less from her. i expected her interview performance to be present, but she is a relatively skilled debater and "did quite well." i don't think she answered all the questions as they were asked and relied on talking points to get her through a few times. i don't think she was as factual as biden. i suppose i think biden won, but that is only my opinion.

[Jana]

Sorry, you guys, my computer froze, and I kept trying to get out of my post and somehow it did it three times. And now it won't let me delete the other two. God, I'm in computer hell.

[csiako]

i think you gals are starting to like her

[iceberg]

I said before that McCain was very irresponsible for picking Palin as his VP. Now, I'm beginning to think that picking Palin was the best thing McCain did for the country.

we all think what we do, in a case like this, is best for the country.

wild how we divide so easily after that.

[iceberg]

i think you gals are starting to like her

i wanna see her in a playboy bunny outfit staring at russia and saying "yes i can outthink you too".

[Lula]

i think you gals are starting to like her

ummm, not so fast. she's fine as a citizen. i don't want her near the white house, but we've no doubt not seen the last of her. i'm excited for the gop having some new blood and a female at that, about time!

[grimlocked]

My review of the debate...

She did very well, way above my expectations. She didn't commit any major mistake. She did OK in her delivery of her words.

I do think that the format of the debate favors her as opposed to an interview where the interviewer such as Couric can follow up with more questions. The questions from the moderator were very predictable. With these types of questions, it would be easy for Palin or Biden to respond with a canned answer. In my observation, she seemed to have answered using the usual talking points which most of us are already aware of. Biden did the same. The difference is that whenever Palin is done with her talking points, Biden would counter with specifics which Palin would not refute. This might make an impression on voters that Biden knows what he's talking about while Palin might just be reciting from the tutorials. Furthermore, when she doesn't know the answer to questions, she would dodge them and proceed on other topics such as energy. Again, this might make an impression to voters that for such question, there is no corresponding canned answer.

She did mention some very surprising things. For example, she seemed to be in-line with the democrat stand on same-sex marriage. She answered it in such a way that it's very hard to tell if it's any different from the democrat stand (not sure if the conservative base would be happy on this, they might scratch their heads on this).

She also made a surprising proposal to extend the powers of a Vice President. Not sure if this would be popular coming from the Dick Cheney experience.

As for Biden, he did very well too. I was expecting some gaffes given his recent statements. I was personally moved in his emotional narrative of his past.

All in all, I believe I saw a clear contrast between Biden and Palin in terms of who I would be comfortable with to be a potential president.

[csiako]

i think you gals are starting to like her

ummm, not so fast. she's fine as a citizen. i don't want her near the white house, but we've no doubt not seen the last of her. i'm excited for the gop having some new blood and a female at that, about time!

resistance is futile

[Jana]

Nope, Ciasko, I'm not one of those "gals." Though, like I said, she did good in the debate. But she still scares the hell out of me. I don't want somebody that can recite from cramming. To watch Hillary Clinton in debates and her command of the issues and then Sarah, no comparison. I like great political minds in this day and age with all that is going on. Sarah reminds me of a folksy Bush. I'm tired of that. Looked what happened.

[grimlocked]

My review of the debate...

She did very well, way above my expectations. She didn't commit any major mistake. She did OK in her delivery of her words.

I do think that the format of the debate favors her as opposed to an interview where the interviewer such as Couric can follow up with more questions. The questions from the moderator were very predictable. With these types of questions, it would be easy for Palin or Biden to respond with a canned answer. In my observation, she seemed to have answered using the usual talking points which most of us are already aware of. Biden did the same. The difference is that whenever Palin is done with her talking points, Biden would counter with specifics which Palin would not refute. This might make an impression on voters that Biden knows what he's talking about while Palin might just be reciting from the tutorials. Furthermore, when she doesn't know the answer to questions, she would dodge them and proceed on other topics such as energy. Again, this might make an impression to voters that for such question, there is no corresponding canned answer.

She did mention some very surprising things. For example, she seemed to be in-line with the democrat stand on same-sex marriage. She answered it in such a way that it's very hard to tell if it's any different from the democrat stand (not sure if the conservative base would be happy on this, they might scratch their heads on this).

She also made a surprising proposal to extend the powers of a Vice President. Not sure if this would be popular coming from the Dick Cheney experience.

As for Biden, he did very well too. I was expecting some gaffes given his recent statements. I was personally moved in his emotional narrative of his past.

All in all, I believe I saw a clear contrast between Biden and Palin in terms of who I would be comfortable with to be a potential president.

I do admit I was bothered with Palin's reaction to Biden's emotional moment. After Biden was done, she just proceeded with her talking points as if nothing happened. Conventional wisdom would have a candidate respond with a word or two to show empathy. For some voters who is used to seeing in her the humanity of politics, they might see her non-response as insensitive or rude. For me, I think she did not mean to offend and she just honestly did not know what to do but to proceed with business.

[Jana]

Grimlocked, maybe she didn't want to give him an extra second of sympathy by the audience and TV viewers. She's pretty politically astute that way. That's my take.

[iceberg]

it's amazing to me at times we let something we hate guide us.

does anyone really "like" politics?

we seem to defend out of habit, not belief. i guess i'm looking for the day we don't give a shit where a good idea comes from, only that it was a good idea.

[Jana]

Iceberg, there's been times where I've been inspired by or had a strong belief in the political system. These last eight years have beaten me down.

[iceberg]

Iceberg, there's been times where I've been inspired or had a strong belief in the political system. These last eight years have beaten me down.

believing in something sucks, doesn't it?

the hardest part to understand is that the people who believe so differently than we do, still believe.

evolution can take a thousand years and we argue day to day.

i just have a f'd up perspective, i suppose.

[Voyager]

Iceberg, there's been times where I've been inspired by or had a strong belief in the political system. These last eight years have beaten me down.

I wonder why?

[Since 78]

it's amazing to me at times we let something we hate guide us.

does anyone really "like" politics?

we seem to defend out of habit, not belief. i guess i'm looking for the day we don't give a shit where a good idea comes from, only that it was a good idea.

Post of the evening!!

[conversationpc]

Some facts adrift in vice presidential debate

By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer 10 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Facts went adrift on taxes, deregulation and more Thursday when Republican Sarah Palin and Democrat Joe Biden clashed in the vice presidential debate.
ADVERTISEMENT

Some examples:

PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama: "94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction."

THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.

___

BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."

THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the crisis today from being worse...

Interesting...Some have claimed that Palin didn't know what she was talking about but apparently neither did Biden. I'll say it again. It was a draw. Plain and simple.

The above not about Biden's comment about "excessive deregulation" is, again, enough to never believe a political candidate of any party when they bring up how someone voted for or against some legislation numerous times. There are too many ways to take those votes to really be able to use that against someone.

[Uno_up]

My thoughts after sleeping on it...

I thought she did quite well. The debates are useless. They both lie their asses off and refuse to answer the question and speak in circles. Palin completely ignored the healthcare question and instead went right back to energy. Biden continued to say that McCain voted against the same war funding plan that Obama did. Of course the easy comeback was this: if you offer me a vanilla ice cream cone and put pickles on it, I'm going to say no you idiot. It was the term limit on the war he opposed.

They both suck. Debates are useless.
...That being said, The President, along with the zillions of advisers, cabinet, congress, house, etc, run the country. There's nothing Palin could if she were President to negatively affect this country any more so than if Obama, McCain or Biden were President. If you agree with the McCain principles, there should be no problem with Palin. President is mostly a figurehead. If you agree with the Obama principles, vote that way. Voting against a candidate because of fear of a harmless Vice President is silly. The VP who becomes President can't simply go all hog wild with power and start putting through new laws and procedures. This country would have been just fine if Dan Quayle became President too.

[Enigma869]

Interesting...Some have claimed that Palin didn't know what she was talking about but apparently neither did Biden. I'll say it again. It was a draw. Plain and simple.

Although neither candidate blew me away, I do give Biden the edge, simply because he answered more questions. He also didn't have to think about his answers and was far more direct. Sarah still didn't embarrass herself like I was sure she would. The larger issue for me is that I still didn't see anything from Palin that makes me think she is remotely qualified for the job she has been selected for!

There are too many ways to take those votes to really be able to use that against someone.

This is so true. I am always amazed at the spin that gets put on the way a Senator votes for a piece of legislation. I think these nutbag politicians should be hooked up to a polygraph machine while answering these questions! Either that, or someone in the back checks facts as they speak, and gives a big red "X" everytime they are misleading the public with their responses! It's really shameful how much all of these politicians lie.


John from Boston

[Barb]

Just for kicks, O'Reilly screaming at Barney Frank. I can't stand BOR, but can't say Frank doesn't deserve this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAuOEdttjZQ

[strangegrey]

Just for kicks, O'Reilly screaming at Barney Frank. I can't stand BOR, but can't say Frank doesn't deserve this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAuOEdttjZQ

I can't stand BOR either....and I really wish the guy would actually research these matters before attacking people. What BOR needed to do prior to this attack, was to research Frank's votes and dissents against going after Fannie and Freddie 2 years ago....research Frank's irresponsible voting to relax lending practices...etc...

then hammer him with the details....instead of going "you not man enough". That doesn't lend much credibility to BOR...but sadly, that's the way he rolls...and he embarasses republicans with his aproach.


I would have rather seen Lou Dobbs cut into Frank...because Dobbs would have hit him hard with a voting record that literally Indicts Frank....



Frank deserves all of this, however....he's being labelled as one of the crafters of the dispicable bailout....but what people fail to realize is that Frank is also one of the architects of the crisis!

[conversationpc]

From the debate transcript:

BIDEN: Can I respond? Look, all you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie's Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years.

Katie's Restaurant has been gone for over 20 years.....

http://www.delawareonline.com/blogs/sec ... -outs.html


Get out much Joe?

Hey, he's in touch with his constituents, huh?

[Ehwmatt]

From the debate transcript:

BIDEN: Can I respond? Look, all you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie's Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years.

Katie's Restaurant has been gone for over 20 years.....

http://www.delawareonline.com/blogs/sec ... -outs.html


Get out much Joe?

I did think Biden went overboard with the small town references. I did appreciate his candor when he said "I'm better off than most of the people watching, nice house, etc etc." That was a nice human touch and far more genuine than the incessant "back home in my small town you can see problem X, Y, Z." Palin also didn't impress me with her blatant appeals to "hockey moms" and what not either. I do think the McCain/Palin message comes off as more uplifting and less defeatist and I think a lot of middle ground undecideds might find this more appealing when it comes down to crunch time. It's going to be interesting on Nov 4

[conversationpc]

That was a nice human touch and far more genuine than the incessant "back home in my small town you can see problem X, Y, Z." Palin also didn't impress me with her blatant appeals to "hockey moms" and what not either.

They have to do that, though, because that is part of their target audience. If she hadn't talked like that then people would be wondering why she didn't "reach out" to those people.

[brywool]

Although neither candidate blew me away, I do give Biden the edge, simply because he answered more questions.

Agreed. Got sick of Palin running off the soundbytes (maverick, hockey mom, blah blah blah). her voice sounds like the secretary in Ferris Bueller's day off. Great to look at but no experience. Loved the "What do I have, 5 weeks experience" [paraphrased] remark. No kidding.

AND IT'S NU-CLEEEE-ER NOT NUCULAR. Jesus, does nobody coach these aholes? If you can't even say the word, I have doubts about how much you know about the topic.

whatever way we look at it, we're probably f'd.