The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[treetopovskaya]

what has obama done tho? what is his track record? forget palin... he is running against mccain. obama has been in office 3 years (?) & has been campaigning most of that time... that's what i meant to say... tehehee.

maybe so but she has more experience than obama. obama's been campaigning longer than he's been in office. what has he done actually... what is his track record?

If "Executive Experience" were the mandated pre-requisite for all potential Presidents, then half our greatest commander-in-chiefs never would have won an election.

Senator McCain has the same amount of "EE" as Obama and Biden.

None.

Just because Palin was a mediocre Governor (and by all accounts, terrible Mayor - she ran a town of 7,600 people $22 million in debt!) does NOT make her "more qualified" or mean she has "more experience".

Enough already.

[donnaplease]

Barney Frank is a wiener-loving douchebag.

I don't know why, but something about this sentence cracks me up.

Your 5-1/2 years were put to good use. Simple, yet effective.

[donnaplease]

Holy crap!!! Am I the only one that didn't know that Barney Frank is a homosexual???

Make that 3 of us. Never knew he was a bone smoker til tonight.

He was practically a cartoon character before. I think that just adds sooo much more to it. I can imagine the photoshops and the lewd jokes...

[RedWingFan]

Holy crap!!! Am I the only one that didn't know that Barney Frank is a homosexual???

Make that 3 of us. Never knew he was a bone smoker til tonight.

What did you think caused him to talk like Elmer Fudd?

[Since 78]

More SNL Get it before its gone.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dug0vV_IhT8

Part 2
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xO-T0JSzZ0c

[scarygirl]

Despite all the supposed POLLS, I believe we still have a decent chance of knocking back Barack Obama to the socialist hole from which he came. We cannot give up. Our way of life depends on it.

Now more than ever I believe this is all orchestrated. 9/11 the whole bit, so that the New World Order can rise from the ashes to set things right. Of course they'll promise you the moon, stars and free health care, but is this something we really want? To be coddled out of the ability to stand up for ourselves and say no? If you're dependant you can't complain. Remember that.

[treetopovskaya]

nothing is free

[Lula]

here are two blurbs on obama's record. i won't pretend he has done a lot, but i can post more . i do however defend and support his vision and truly hope he is able to enact some needed change in our country.

Education

Obama has been a leader on educational issues throughout his career. In the Illinois State Senate, Obama was a leader on early childhood education, helping create the state's Early Learning Council. In the U.S. Senate, Obama has been a leader in working to make college more affordable. His very first bill sought to increase the maximum Pell Grant award to $5,100. As a member of the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions committee, Obama helped pass legislation to achieve that goal in the recent improvements to the Higher Education Act. Obama has also introduced legislation to create Teacher Residency Programs and to increase federal support for summer learning opportunities.

Verterans
As a member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs, Obama passed legislation to improve care and slash red tape for our wounded warriors recovering at places like Walter Reed. He passed laws to help homeless veterans and offered an innovative solution to prevent at-risk veterans from falling into homelessness. Obama led a bipartisan effort in the Senate to try to halt the military's unfair practice of discharging service members for having a service-connected psychological injury. He fought for fair treatment of Illinois veterans' claims and forced the VA to conduct an unprecedented outreach campaign to disabled veterans with lower than-average benefits. Obama passed legislation to stop a VA review of closed PTSD cases that could have led to a reduction in veterans' benefits. He passed an amendment to ensure that all service members returning from Iraq are properly screened for traumatic brain injuries. He introduced legislation to direct the VA and Pentagon to fix disjointed records systems and improve outreach to members of the National Guard and Reserves.

[treetopovskaya]

if it's too good to be true it's prolly a lie. just ask all those people that bought houses they couldn't afford.

think.

[7 Wishes]

http://wtopnews.com/?nid=213&sid=1479006

Liberal media bias again.

Funny how this hasn't even been mentioned by the mainstream.

[Saint John]

In the Illinois State Senate, Obama was a leader on early childhood education, helping create the state's Early Learning Council.

Complete waste of money. This is the job of parents. Reading your kids books, helping them learn to count, etc. does not need extra funding.

As a member of the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions committee,

That's about all I needed to read. He's in favor of organized extortion. Good for him.

Obama has also introduced legislation to create Teacher Residency Programs and to increase federal support for summer learning opportunities.

You go to school for nine months out of the year on the state's dime. If you need further help you need to: a) study harder or b) have your parents pay for summer school. I'm tired of paying for other people's kids to go to school to get shitty grades!!! Roughly $800 of my annual property tax dollars goes to the Chicago Public Schools. I have owned my house for 12 years and my condo for 7. I don't have any kids!!! The city, by my calculations, owes me $9,600+$5,600=$15,200.

[Jana]

Treetopovskaya, Barack Obama has more than three years' experience. He was an Illinois state senator beginning in 1996 for at least six years. There was a two-year gap I think in 2000 - 2002. I'm not sure. Then from 2002 on again. He became a United States Senator January 1, 2005. Read about him before you make a judgment about him. Did I want him to have more experience? Yes. But my candidate did not win the nomination. But though the five million debates during the Democratic primary and his interviews on Meet the Press, etc, and his debate with John McCain, and hearing his policies for the administration, the man is qualified, I know enough to feel confident in him.

The way McCain is unraveling with his insane judgment on picking Sarah Palin as veep is what's troubling and that he thought the fundamentals of the economy were good a week before the meltdown. Suspending his campaign? What the . . . . . ? I don't believe his explanation for "fundamentals." Obama has shown sound judgment, a good grasp of the issues, and what I believe is the right temperment for the job and a keen intellect. I respect if someone else has differing opinions, but I was against the war from the beginning. I don't agree with McCain's stance on the war. And I believe Obama will not do anything irresponsibly on Iraq. He will get us out but in a responsible way.

[Saint John]

Obama has shown sound judgment

Again, he sat in a church for 20+ years listening to a maniacal racist and didn't see anything wrong with it. Not once did he ever question the vicious anti-semitic, anti-white weekly tirades of Rev. Wright. You call this "sound judgment?" I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how he could sit in the church of an open racist for 20 years and even be considered a qualified candidate. Moreover, he was so in agreement with what said racist spewed that he was married by the man!!! He was then "spiritually guided" by Rev. Wright...until, of course, Obama turned on him out of necessity.

[Lula]

oh dan, calm down. early childhood education is important. if our society was stocked with great parents you might have a point, but sadly it is not the case.

teacher residency is education for teachers. another tool in recruiting or professional development. it's a good thing.

[7 Wishes]

Interesting read. I'll do a Fact Finder cut and paste here.

by Charley James –

“So Sambo beat the bitch!”

This is how Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin described Barack Obama’s win over Hillary Clinton to political colleagues in a restaurant a few days after Obama locked up the Democratic Party presidential nomination.

According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used, Gov. Palin was eating lunch with five or six people when the subject of the Democrat’s primary battle came up. The governor, seemingly not caring that people at nearby tables would likely hear her, uttered the slur and then laughed loudly as her meal mates joined in appreciatively.

“It was kind of disgusting,” Lucille, who is part Aboriginal, said in a phone interview after admitting that she is frightened of being discovered telling folks in the “lower 48” about life near the North Pole.

Then, almost with a sigh, she added, “But that’s just Alaska.”

Racial and ethnic slurs may be “just Alaska” and, clearly, they are common, everyday chatter for Palin.

Besides insulting Obama with a Step-N’-Fetch-It, “darkie musical” swipe, people who know her say she refers regularly to Alaska’s Aboriginal people as “Arctic Arabs” – how efficient, lumping two apparently undesirable groups into one ugly description – as well as the more colourful “mukluks” along with the totally unimaginative “f**king Eskimo’s,” according to a number of Alaskans and Wasillians interviewed for this article.

But being openly racist is only the tip of the Palin iceberg. According to Alaskans interviewed for this article, she is also vindictive and mean. We’re talking Rove mean and Nixon vindictive.

No wonder the vast sea of white, cheering faces at the Republican Convention went wild for Sarah: They adore the type, it’s in their genetic code. So much for McCain’s pledge of a “high road” campaign; Palin is incapable of being part of one.

Tough Getting People Who Know Her to Talk
It’s not easy getting people in the 49th state to speak critically about Palin – especially people in Wasilla, where she was mayor. For one thing, with every journalist in the world calling, phone lines into Alaska have been mostly jammed since Friday; as often as not, a recording told me that “all circuits are busy” or numbers just wouldn’t ring. I should think a state that’s been made richer than God by oil could afford telephone lines and cell towers for everyone.

On a more practical level, many people in Alaska, and particularly Wasilla, are reluctant to speak or be quoted by name because they’re afraid of her as well as the state Republican Party machine. Apparently, the power elite are as mean as the winters.

“The GOP is kind of like organized crime up here,” an insurance agent in Anchorage who knows the Palin family, explained. “It’s corrupt and arrogant. They’re all rich because they do private sweetheart deals with the oil companies, and they can destroy anyone. And they will, if they have to.”

“Once Palin became mayor,” he continued, “She became part of that inner circle.”

Like most other people interviewed, he didn’t want his name used out of fear of retribution. Maybe it’s the long winter nights where you don’t see the sun for months that makes people feel as if they’re under constant danger from “the authorities.” As I interviewed residents it began sounding as if living in Alaska controlled by the state Republican Party is like living in the old Soviet Union: See nothing that’s happening, say nothing offensive, and the political commissars leave you alone. But speak out and you get disappeared into a gulag north of the Arctic Circle for who-knows-how-long.

Alright, that’s an exaggeration brought on by my getting too little sleep and building too much anger as I worked this article. But there’s ample evidence of Palin’s vindictive willingness to destroy people she sees as opponents. Just ask the Wasilla town administrator she hired before firing him because he rebelled against the way Palin demanded he do his job, or the town librarian who refused to hold the book burning Walpurgisnach Mayor Palin demanded.

Ironically, Palin was pushed into hiring the administrator by the party poobahs who helped get her elected after she got herself into trouble over a number of precipitous firings which gave rise to a recall campaign.

“People who fought her attempt to oust the librarian are on her enemies list to this day,” states Anne Kilkenny, a Wasilla resident and one of the few Alaskans willing to speak on-the-record, for attribution, about Palin. In fact, Kilkenny actually circulated an e-mail letter about Palin that was verified and printed by The Nation.

For good measure, Palin booted the Wasilla police chief from office because, she told a local newspaper, he “intimidated” her.

Running on Extreme Fringe Evangelical Views
Sarah Palin drew early attention from state GOP apparatchiks when, during her first mayoral campaign, she ran on an anti-abortion platform. Normally, political parties do not get involved in Alaskan municipal elections because they are nonpartisan. But once word of her extreme fringe evangelical views made its way to Juneau, the state capitol, state Republicans tossed some money behind her campaign.

Once in office, Palin set out to build a machine that chewed up anyone who got in her way. The good, Godly Christian turns out to be anything but.

“She’s doesn’t like different opinions and she refuses to compromise,” Kilkenny notes. “When she was mayor, she fought ideas that weren’t hers. Worse, ideas weren’t evaluated on their merits but on the basis of who proposed them.”

Sound familiar? Palin may well be Dick Cheney’s reincarnate.

Something else has a familiar Republican ring to it: Her tax policies, and a “refund surpluses but borrow for the future” attitude.

According to Kilkenny and others in Wasilla as well as Juneau, Palin reduced progressive property taxes for businesses while mayor and increased a regressive sales tax which even hits necessities such as food. The tax cuts she promoted in her St. Paul speech actually benefited large corporate property owners far more than they benefited residents. Indeed, Kilkenny insists that many Wasilla home owners actually saw their tax bill skyrocket to make up for the shortfall. Two other Wasillian’s with whom I spoke said property taxes on their modest, three bedroom homes rose during the Palin regime.

To an outsider, it would seem hard to do, but an oil-rich town with zero debt on the day she was inaugurated mayor was left saddled with $22 million of debt by the time she moved away to become governor – especially since nothing was spent on things such as improving the city’s infrastructure or building a much-needed sewage treatment plant. So what did Mayor Palin spend the taxpayer’s money on, if not fixing streets and scrubbing sewage?

For starters, she remodelled her office. Several times over, as a matter of fact.

Then Palin spent $1 million on an unnecessary, new park that no one other than the contractors and Palin seemed to want. Next, Sarah doled out more than $15 million of taxpayer money for a sports complex that she shoved through even though the city did not own clear title to the land; now, seven years later, the matter is still in litigation and lawyer fees are said to be close to at least half of the original estimated price of the facility.

She also worked hard to get voters approval of a $5.5 million bond proposal for roads that could have been built without borrowing. Anchorage may not be the center of the financial universe but, like good Republicans everywhere, Sarah Palin knows how to please Alaskan bankers and bond dealers.

For good measure, she turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots.

Sarah Barracuda
En route to the governor’s igloo, Palin managed to land what Anne Kilkenny says is the plumb political appointment in the state: Chair of Alaska’s Oil and Gas Conservation Commission (OGCC), a $122,400 per year patronage slot with no real authority to do anything other than hold meetings. She took the job despite having no background in energy issues and, as it turned out, not liking the work.

“She hated the job,” an OGCC staff member who is not authorized to speak with the news media told me. “She hated the hours and she hated what little work there was to do. But she couldn’t figure out a way to get out of the thing without offending Gov. Murkowski” and the state Republican Party regulars, some of whom were pissed off they didn’t get appointed.

But ever the opportunist, Palin quickly concocted a way. First, she waged a campaign with the local news media claiming that the position was overpaid and should be abolished – despite the fact that she lobbied Murkowski hard to get it. Then, mounting what she saw as a white horse, Palin raised a cloud of dust by resigning from the OGCC and riding away with an undeserved reputation as a “reformer.”

But when a local reporter dared to suggest that the reformer Empress has no clothes, Palin tried to get her fired.

“She came at me like I was trying to steal her kids,” said the targeted reporter, who now works for an oil company in Anchorage. “I heard she had a wild temper and vicious mean streak but it’s nothing like you can imagine until she turns it on you.”

Not surprising since some of her high school classmates still openly call her “Sarah Barracuda,” Kilkenny insists.

Still, as a Republican Party hack Palin managed to get herself elected running under the false flag of a “reformer.”

And what did she bring to the job? No legislative experience other than a city council of a village of 5,000 people, which is smaller than some high schools in Chicago. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; after all, she needed to hire a city administrator to run Wasilla. No executive experience, except for almost being recalled as mayor. A philosophy of setting public policy based on one word: No.

And what has she done since winning the job?

According to Kilkenny, nothing. Well, nothing other than suggesting the state’s multi-multi-million dollar, oil-generated surplus be distributed to residents and finance future state needs by borrowing money. Gee, doesn’t that sound precisely what George Bush did with the surplus he inherited from Bill Clinton in 2001 and we all know in what great shape Bush’s economic policies left the nation.

It may explain why, when asked by reporters, including me, what she thought about Palin being picked to be McCain’s running mate, her mother-in-law replied with a sardonic, “What has Sarah done to qualify her to be vice president?” Of course, when the woman – said by many I spoke with to be well-respected in Wasilla – was running to succeed Palin as mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her, so that may explain the family tension.

As Governor, Palin gave the legislature no direction and budget guidelines, according to the chair of a legislative committee. But then she staged a huge grandstand play of line-item vetoing countless projects, calling them pork. “They were restored because of public outcry and legislative action,” the aide said. “She vetoed them mostly because she had no idea what they were or why they were important.”

But it was enough to get the McCain, who is mostly unobservant of the world around him anyway, to think Palin has a reputation as being “anti-pork”.

In fact, Juneau observers note that Palin kept her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork ladled out by indicted Sen. Ted Stevens. She only opposed the “bridge to nowhere” after it became clear that it would be politically unwise to keep supporting it, these same insiders assert. Then, Palin fell back on her old habits and publicly humiliated him for pork-barrel politics.

As for being “ready on day one” to be commander in chief, despite the repeated public claims she’s made, the Alaska National Guard commander said that, “she has made no command decisions, other than sending some troops to help fight a few brush fires and march in parades at county fairs.”

“Sambo Beat the Bitch”
“Palin is a conniving, manipulative, a**hole,” someone who thinks these are positive traits in a governor told me, summing up Palin’s tenure in Alaska state and local politics.

“She’s a bigot, a racist, and a liar,” is the more blunt assessment of Arnold Gerstheimer who lived in Alaska until two years ago and is now a businessman in Idaho.

Juneau is a small town; everybody knows everyone else,” he adds. “These stories about what she calls blacks and Eskimos, well, anyone not white and good looking actually, were around long before she became a glint in John McCain’s rheumy eyes. Why do I know they’re true? Because everyone who isn’t aboriginal or Indian in Alaska talks that way.”

“Sambo beat the bitch” may be everyday language up in the bush. Whether it – and the outlook, politics and worldview Palin reflects when she says such things in public – should be part of a presidential campaign is another thing altogether. The comment says as much about McCain as it does about Palin, and it says a lot of things about Americans who overlook such statements (as well as her record) and vote anyway for McCain.

[Lula]

Obama has shown sound judgment

Again, he sat in a church for 20+ years listening to a maniacal racist and didn't see anything wrong with it. Not once did he ever question the vicious anti-semitic, anti-white weekly tirades of Rev. Wright. You call this "sound judgment." I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how he could sit in the church of an open racist for 20 years and even be considered a qualified candidate. Moreover, he was so in agreement with what said racist spewed that he was married by the man!!! He was then "spiritually guided" by Rev. Wright...until of course Obama turned on him out of necessity.

geez!!
do we know that every sunday service was racial crap? how many sermons are on youtube? mccain of course has stellar judgement he sought the endorsements of some scary church dudes- names escape me, but they slammed catholics, jews, blah blah blah. the he picks a woman who has some freaky church stuff as well as being married to an alaskan independent party guy.

[Saint John]

do we know that every sunday service was racial crap? Yes.

[Barb]

Here's some more from Charly James.....

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/10/04 ... o-clothes/


Dude, if you think this kind of bullshit appeals to normal Americans, you are out of your mind. This guy is so full of hatred, he can barely type!

[scarygirl]

This is where we're going if people don't get their heads out of the sand.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2957428/Sharia-law-courts-operating-in-Britain.html


This is what happens when you pander to all cultures instead of protecting your own.

[Jana]

7Wishes, Sarah Palin scares me to death. Before he picked her, I thought, well, whatever way it went I could live with, because of the last eight years of hell with Bush. Then he picked her. I still can't get over if McCain dies, we have her. I hate to beat a dead horse, but I lost a lot of respect for McCain. He definitely wasn't putting the country first on that pick, when he always touted experience was the most imortant thing.

[scarygirl]

Obama has shown sound judgment

Again, he sat in a church for 20+ years listening to a maniacal racist and didn't see anything wrong with it. Not once did he ever question the vicious anti-semitic, anti-white weekly tirades of Rev. Wright. You call this "sound judgment." I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how he could sit in the church of an open racist for 20 years and even be considered a qualified candidate. Moreover, he was so in agreement with what said racist spewed that he was married by the man!!! He was then "spiritually guided" by Rev. Wright...until of course Obama turned on him out of necessity.

geez!!
do we know that every sunday service was racial crap? how many sermons are on youtube? mccain of course has stellar judgement he sought the endorsements of some scary church dudes- names escape me, but they slammed catholics, jews, blah blah blah. the he picks a woman who has some freaky church stuff as well as being married to an alaskan independent party guy.

What's wrong with being independent? Gotta be better than the two party system we're dealing with now. As to freaky church stuff when the muslims take over we'll be begging. I wonder if those burgas come in emerald green like my eyes.

[donnaplease]

The way McCain is unraveling with his insane judgment on picking Sarah Palin as veep is what's troubling and that he thought the fundamentals of the economy were good a week before the meltdown. Suspending his campaign? What the . . . . . ? I don't believe his explanation for "fundamentals." Obama has shown sound judgment, a good grasp of the issues, and what I believe is the right temperment for the job and a keen intellect. I respect if someone else has differing opinions, but I was against the war from the beginning. I don't agree with McCain's stance on the war. And I believe Obama will not do anything irresponsibly on Iraq. He will get us out but in a responsible way.

I'm not Tree, but I'd like to respond to this. First, one of the things that really bugs me about liberals is the way they can't make a comment about someone without an inflammatory statement, such as 'insane'. Question his judgement all you want, but why suggest that he's crazy? This is a mild form of it, of course. The ones that really get my goat are the ones where people are called liars and murderers. I listen to Air America sometimes because I like to hear what both sides are saying, and I gotta tell ya, those folks are some of the vilest people in broadcasting...

As for suspending the campaign... my personal view after considering it is that JM did what he thought was right for the country. I think there was an aspect of grandstanding to it, but at least he made an effort to be part of the solution. He was trying to be 'presidential', IMO. BO was willing to just 'call it in' and that is not good enough for me. Remember how W was trashed when the planes first hit the WTC because he didn't rush right out of that classroom? There is no pleasing some people. I understand that there are assholes on both sides of the aisle, and that makes it even worse, IMO.

Not picking on you, Jana, just making an observation.

[Uno_up]

The way McCain is unraveling with his insane judgment on picking Sarah Palin as veep is what's troubling and that he thought the fundamentals of the economy were good a week before the meltdown.

Some of us seem overly obsessed with hating Governor Palin...a little bit of lithium might level you out, though. Take it with a glass of milk at bedtime.

[Lula]

do we know that every sunday service was racial crap? Yes.

bologna!

and i knew how to spell that by singing the song...... my bologna has a first name, it's o-s-c-a-r

[Barb]

do we know that every sunday service was racial crap? Yes.

bologna!

and i knew how to spell that by singing the song...... my bologna has a first name, it's o-s-c-a-r

LOL... life was so much simpler back then.

[Saint John]

do we know that every sunday service was racial crap? Yes.

bologna!

and i knew how to spell that by singing the song...... my bologna has a first name, it's o-s-c-a-r

I bet you didn't need summer school to learn that song.

[Lula]

What's wrong with being independent? Gotta be better than the two party system we're dealing with now. As to freaky church stuff when the muslims take over you'll be begging. I wonder if those burgas come in emerald green like my eyes.

independent as is want to see secede from the united states.

are you crazy? paranoid? wow, that is some comment.

[Rhiannon]

do we know that every sunday service was racial crap? Yes.

bologna!

and i knew how to spell that by singing the song...... my bologna has a first name, it's o-s-c-a-r

My bologna has a second name, it's m-a-y-e-r! I love to eat it everyday and if you ask me why I'll sayyyy...

Cause Oscar Mayer has a way with b-o-l-o-g-n-a.

[treetopovskaya]

he's only held federal office for 3 years... that is what i meant. most of it spent campaigning... 21 months. longest in history.

obama will enact socialist programs. his answer for every single thing is to increase the role of the government... more government means more taxes... no matter WHO gets their taxes raised.

Treetopovskaya, Barack Obama has more than three years' experience. He was an Illinois state senator beginning in 1996 for at least six years. There was a two-year gap I think in 2000 - 2002. I'm not sure. Then from 2002 on again. He became a United States Senator January 1, 2005. Read about him before you make a judgment about him. Did I want him to have more experience? Yes. But my candidate did not win the nomination. But though the five million debates during the Democratic primary and his interviews on Meet the Press, etc, and his debate with John McCain, and hearing his policies for the administration, the man is qualified, I know enough to feel confident in him.

The way McCain is unraveling with his insane judgment on picking Sarah Palin as veep is what's troubling and that he thought the fundamentals of the economy were good a week before the meltdown. Suspending his campaign? What the . . . . . ? I don't believe his explanation for "fundamentals." Obama has shown sound judgment, a good grasp of the issues, and what I believe is the right temperment for the job and a keen intellect. I respect if someone else has differing opinions, but I was against the war from the beginning. I don't agree with McCain's stance on the war. And I believe Obama will not do anything irresponsibly on Iraq. He will get us out but in a responsible way.

[Saint John]

do we know that every sunday service was racial crap? Yes.

bologna!

and i knew how to spell that by singing the song...... my bologna has a first name, it's o-s-c-a-r

My bologna has a second name, it's m-a-y-e-r! I love to eat it everyday and if you ask me why I'll sayyyy...

Cause Oscar Mayer has a way with b-o-l-o-g-n-a.

Rhi-tard alert.