OT - The Divine Command Theory

[conversationpc]

I'm not following that. What I am getting is you seem to favor the first option: Something is either right or wrong just because G-D says so. Am I right?

So lying wasn't wrong before G-D said it was?

Actually, I would lean towards the second one.

Again, it CANNOT be both. Something is either right BECAUSE G-D says so, or G-D says so because it IS right. Two separate issuess

It's a paradox but it can be both at least as far as we don't understand everything. I don't understand the concept of the trinity and how God can be three distinct personalities yet still one in essence but that doesn't mean it's not so. I may not understand why God says something is right or wrong but I can take it by faith that it is so. The Bible says "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1st Corinthians 13:12). In other words, we don't have clear understanding of all things right now but some day we will.

Dave's GOD

Please elaborate.

[Socratic Methodist]

Being that we are a secondary cause of God, we have the ability to show imperfections. Because God is and always was, he is all virtuous, unlike us. I think we as humans have free will and thus our actions are completely independent of God's will. Therefore, something that is right is just as God is...completely virtuous. man, I gave this shit up in 1996. Been a long time since I thought about something this "deep." I was a Philosophy major.

So you've not thought deeply since 1996, that figures as I kinda saw this trend in all of your posts

Funny...though it didn't make sense. I clearly said "this deep." Using standard logic one could deduce that I have thought about "deep" things in the past decade, just not as deep. Nice try, though.

I love it when Methodist posts without even a comment on our constructive posts SM, you're on a roll with this religious stuff ain't ya

Don't worry, I'll comment.....I do so love to discuss Swiss Cheese......

I was on a thought roll, and I had to finish....

[conversationpc]

Being that we are a secondary cause of God, we have the ability to show imperfections. Because God is and always was, he is all virtuous, unlike us. I think we as humans have free will and thus our actions are completely independent of God's will. Therefore, something that is right is just as God is...completely virtuous. man, I gave this shit up in 1996. Been a long time since I thought about something this "deep." I was a Philosophy major.

So you've not thought deeply since 1996, that figures as I kinda saw this trend in all of your posts

[styxman]

I'm not following that. What I am getting is you seem to favor the first option: Something is either right or wrong just because G-D says so. Am I right?

So lying wasn't wrong before G-D said it was?

Actually, I would lean towards the second one.

Again, it CANNOT be both. Something is either right BECAUSE G-D says so, or G-D says so because it IS right. Two separate issuess

It's a paradox but it can be both at least as far as we don't understand everything. I don't understand the concept of the trinity and how God can be three distinct personalities yet still one in essence but that doesn't mean it's not so. I may not understand why God says something is right or wrong but I can take it by faith that it is so. The Bible says "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1st Corinthians 13:12). In other words, we don't have clear understanding of all things right now but some day we will.

Dave's GOD

Please elaborate.

He's that dude the Bible talks about Dave...he's always sensible, clever and upstanding...just thought of you dude

[conversationpc]

I'm not following that. What I am getting is you seem to favor the first option: Something is either right or wrong just because G-D says so. Am I right?

So lying wasn't wrong before G-D said it was?

Actually, I would lean towards the second one.

Again, it CANNOT be both. Something is either right BECAUSE G-D says so, or G-D says so because it IS right. Two separate issuess

It's a paradox but it can be both at least as far as we don't understand everything. I don't understand the concept of the trinity and how God can be three distinct personalities yet still one in essence but that doesn't mean it's not so. I may not understand why God says something is right or wrong but I can take it by faith that it is so. The Bible says "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1st Corinthians 13:12). In other words, we don't have clear understanding of all things right now but some day we will.

Dave's GOD

Please elaborate.

He's that dude the Bible talks about Dave...he's always sensible, clever and upstanding...just thought of you dude

I thought you meant "Dave's GOD" as in my idea of God, not that I AM God. My bad.

[Socratic Methodist]

British Philosopher Antony Flew suggested that, 'One good test of a person's aptitude for philosophy is to grasp its force and point'

referring to 'The Divine Command Theory'

[styxman]

I'm not following that. What I am getting is you seem to favor the first option: Something is either right or wrong just because G-D says so. Am I right?

So lying wasn't wrong before G-D said it was?

Actually, I would lean towards the second one.

Again, it CANNOT be both. Something is either right BECAUSE G-D says so, or G-D says so because it IS right. Two separate issuess

It's a paradox but it can be both at least as far as we don't understand everything. I don't understand the concept of the trinity and how God can be three distinct personalities yet still one in essence but that doesn't mean it's not so. I may not understand why God says something is right or wrong but I can take it by faith that it is so. The Bible says "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1st Corinthians 13:12). In other words, we don't have clear understanding of all things right now but some day we will.

Dave's GOD

Please elaborate.

He's that dude the Bible talks about Dave...he's always sensible, clever and upstanding...just thought of you dude

I thought meant "Dave's GOD" as in my idea of God, not that I AM God. My bad.

You're not as clever as I give you credit. Just adding you to my list of...Thinks deep but not too deeply, you're in good company Dave

[Rockindeano]

If God was great Dean, why the fuck can't he elevate the BA forum to No1. You'd better have a word with him tonight dude If you do ask him to send Faith Hill over to my place...Thanks

That's what I'm saying. Can God pinch hit in the bottom 8th for a struggling Melky Cabrera and drive one off the right field wall at Yankee Stadium off JJ Putz? I doubt it seriously. Can he beat Roberto Luongo in a shootout in the final round at Vancouver? Probably not. Could he hit one of two free throws to ice a game in the final four at UCLA? probably. Could God knock one through the uprights at Soldier Field in the snow to beat the Lions 3-0 in December? That would be a real question mark.

Can JC get the BA forum up into the top 5? I bet he can...by tonight.

[Rockindeano]

British Philosopher Antony Flew suggested that, 'One good test of a person's aptitude for philosophy is to grasp its force and point'

referring to 'The Divine Command Theory'

What? I am waiting for a British philosopher to say, "brushing of chicletts is a good thing, MMkay."

[Socratic Methodist]

What? That's all you got?

Is the conversation over? Did you give up?

Are you stumped? Overwhlemed?

Well?

[styxman]

British Philosopher Antony Flew suggested that, 'One good test of a person's aptitude for philosophy is to grasp its force and point'

referring to 'The Divine Command Theory'

SM can I stay in this thread and crack a few jokes as to be honest this is way over my head

[Socratic Methodist]

British Philosopher Antony Flew suggested that, 'One good test of a person's aptitude for philosophy is to grasp its force and point'

referring to 'The Divine Command Theory'

SM can I stay in this thread and crack a few jokes as to be honest this is way over my head

I guess you can do whatever you want....God said so. Right?

[Rockindeano]

What? That's all you got?

Is the conversation over? Did you give up?

Are you stumped? Overwhlemed?

Well?

Bro, the only thing missing off your avatar is a stream of hot jizz flowing out of Phil's mouth.

[styxman]

If God was great Dean, why the fuck can't he elevate the BA forum to No1. You'd better have a word with him tonight dude If you do ask him to send Faith Hill over to my place...Thanks

That's what I'm saying. Can God pinch hit in the bottom 8th for a struggling Melky Cabrera and drive one off the right field wall at Yankee Stadium off JJ Putz? I doubt it seriously. Can he beat Roberto Luongo in a shootout in the final round at Vancouver? Probably not. Could he hit one of two free throws to ice a game in the final four at UCLA? probably. Could God knock one through the uprights at Soldier Field in the snow to beat the Lions 3-0 in December? That would be a real question mark.

Can JC get the BA forum up into the top 5? I bet he can...by tonight.

JC won't get BA up to No5 tonight, you'll just PM Drew and tell him to shift it Get the Corrs at No1 and I'll start reading the Bible

[conversationpc]

If God was great Dean, why the fuck can't he elevate the BA forum to No1. You'd better have a word with him tonight dude If you do ask him to send Faith Hill over to my place...Thanks

That's what I'm saying. Can God pinch hit in the bottom 8th for a struggling Melky Cabrera and drive one off the right field wall at Yankee Stadium off JJ Putz? I doubt it seriously. Can he beat Roberto Luongo in a shootout in the final round at Vancouver? Probably not. Could he hit one of two free throws to ice a game in the final four at UCLA? probably. Could God knock one through the uprights at Soldier Field in the snow to beat the Lions 3-0 in December? That would be a real question mark.

Can JC get the BA forum up into the top 5? I bet he can...by tonight.

There's a comedian who does a great impression of Harry Caray broadcasting a baseball game in heaven. He talks about Jesus going out to give Peter a "sermon on the mound". Lazarus gets killed by a beanball and, of course, Jesus resurrects him. Then in the bottom of the 9th with 2 outs, Jesus hits a "bases empty" grand slam to win the game. Wish I could remember who the comedian was.

[styxman]

Just as a backup anyone got a bible they don't want ?

[Socratic Methodist]

Many people never get beyond level one, stage one on Kohlberg's theory of moral reasoning. It would be illuminating to consider how such a person would

think in regard to this question - assuming that they are a Christian.

Yes, something is right because God says so. Utter confusion regarding the second part, which they can't properly understand, namely "does God say so

because it is right?". They would say the answer there is "yes" as well, but wouldn't be able to distinguish a difference in their minds between the two questions.

To someone of this mentality, things are wrong because they have been declared so by someone in high authority - and should this authority subsequently

either declare the act no longer forbidden, or if the Christian is informed by the priest that God does not forbid it, then the act immediately goes from being

immoral to being acceptable.

Morality is defined by punishment.

Conventional Christianity contains a code of morality in which transgression will result in the punishment of going to Hell, and that is WHY transgression is

wrong, while obdedience results in going to Heaven and that's WHY obedience is right.

The individual may recieve forgiveness when they do something they know is not allowed and show sufficient remorse (or undergo a punishment).

It is the stage of morality that every child passes through at an early age whereby an act is wrong BECAUSE the parent will punish them for it.

There would be no point in the religion if individuals felt that deciding moral righteousness was something they could or should do for themselves. The religion

requires that only God can make such a distinction.....this is the power of religion, and also its greatest flaw.

[conversationpc]

Just as a backup anyone got a bible they don't want ?

Who are you going to throw it at?

[styxman]

Just as a backup anyone got a bible they don't want ?

Who are you going to throw it at?

SM, if he doesn't stop posting this way over my head stuff

Dave PM me a reply to his next in depth post, so I can at least sound clever. He'll not know its come from you as I throw in a few fucks

[conversationpc]

Just as a backup anyone got a bible they don't want ?

Who are you going to throw it at?

SM, if he doesn't stop posting this way over my head stuff

Dave PM me a reply to his next in depth post, so I can at least sound clever. He'll not know it's come from you as I throw in a few fucks

You whispered a little too loud there...

[styxman]

Dean what did JC say about Faith Hill. I can't keep it up all night dude, is she coming or what

[Little Lenny]

Is something right because 'God' says so(the 'Because I said so' defense), or does 'God' say so because it is right?( right and wrong are INDEPENDENT of God's will)

I love this one.

Well the answer has to be looked at very carefully.
First of all would this question apply to an atheist or indeed an agnostic., as one does not believe in a god and one has lost their faith in God? Equally would it apply to a pagan or a druid?
Looking at this from the perspective of a person who believes, or has faith in God(whichever God it may be), if we take both instances, and assuming that we are dealing with a 'great chain of being' scenario, then logically
a. something is right because God says so, that would say that anything can be seen as right if it is deemed so by a higher being , that being God. Therefore Logically if god were to deem it so, that usurping your neighbours property and wealth was right, then the fact that this is indded wrong would be over ruled.
b. If god where to say to say it was right because he believed it was right, then he is exercising an a wareness of what is right and what is wrong, there is no clean sweep as there would be with choice a. Therefore, for god to say so because it is right means that there would be a gradation of what is right and what is wrong, or what could be called a conscious awareness from a higher being.

In theory I would say you could have both, because as we are dealing with the human race, and each human has their own private thought, and unique psyche and perception of such thoughts, concepts and Ideas then each Human will view the question differently and arrive at various conclusions.


Just my two penneths worth...

[styxman]

Is something right because 'God' says so(the 'Because I said so' defense), or does 'God' say so because it is right?( right and wrong are INDEPENDENT of God's will)

I love this one.

Well the answer has to be looked at very carefully.
First of all would this question apply to an atheist or indeed an agnostic., as one does not believe in a god and one has lost their faith in God? Equally would it apply to a pagan or a druid?
Looking at this from the perspective of a person who believes, or has faith in God(whichever God it may be), if we take both instances, and assuming that we are dealing with a 'great chain of being' scenario, then logically
a. something is right because God says so, that would say that anything can be seen as right if it is deemed so by a higher being , that being God. Therefore Logically if god were to deem it so, that usurping your neighbours property and wealth was right, then the fact that this is indded wrong would be over ruled.
b. If god where to say to say it was right because he believed it was right, then he is exercising an a wareness of what is right and what is wrong, there is no clean sweep as there would be with choice a. Therefore, for god to say so because it is right means that there would be a gradation of what is right and what is wrong, or what could be called a conscious awareness from a higher being.

In theory I would say you could have both, because as we are dealing with the human race, and each human has their own private thought, and unique psyche and perception of such thoughts, concepts and Ideas then each Human will view the question differently and arrive at various conclusions.


Just my two penneths worth...

Lenny, why does God have to say to say, you'd think being as big as he is, he'd only have to say it once, right

[belar]

How do we strictly speaking, know whether "God says so"? Has anyone spoken to him recently? We have the ten commandments and...what? Not all religions even recognize the commandments? What are they supposed to do?

Also, has God ever made a mistake? If so, does the mistake become "right" just because he made that decision? Then you have the theory of things being right and wrong in and of themselves directly at odds with the one that holds that everything God does is "right".

[Little Lenny]

Is something right because 'God' says so(the 'Because I said so' defense), or does 'God' say so because it is right?( right and wrong are INDEPENDENT of God's will)

I love this one.

Well the answer has to be looked at very carefully.
First of all would this question apply to an atheist or indeed an agnostic., as one does not believe in a god and one has lost their faith in God? Equally would it apply to a pagan or a druid?
Looking at this from the perspective of a person who believes, or has faith in God(whichever God it may be), if we take both instances, and assuming that we are dealing with a 'great chain of being' scenario, then logically
a. something is right because God says so, that would say that anything can be seen as right if it is deemed so by a higher being , that being God. Therefore Logically if god were to deem it so, that usurping your neighbours property and wealth was right, then the fact that this is indded wrong would be over ruled.
b. If god where to say to say it was right because he believed it was right, then he is exercising an a wareness of what is right and what is wrong, there is no clean sweep as there would be with choice a. Therefore, for god to say so because it is right means that there would be a gradation of what is right and what is wrong, or what could be called a conscious awareness from a higher being.

In theory I would say you could have both, because as we are dealing with the human race, and each human has their own private thought, and unique psyche and perception of such thoughts, concepts and Ideas then each Human will view the question differently and arrive at various conclusions.


Just my two penneths worth...

Lenny, why does God have to say to say, you'd think being as big as he is, he'd only have to say it once, right

Styxman, I sometimes do that I repeat myself I spell backwaards and incoorectly and I sometimes forget what I am writing, be cause I ahve Dyspraxia, which causes all sorts of coordination problems in perception and thought, it also affects my short term memory ...however it hasnt held me back in my studies..im pretty proud of that fact

[styxman]

How do we strictly speaking, know whether "God says so"? Has anyone spoken to him recently? We have the ten commandments and...what? Not all religions even recognize the commandments? What are they supposed to do?

Also, has God ever made a mistake? If so, does the mistake become "right" just because he made that decision? Then you have the theory of things being right and wrong in and of themselves directly at odds with the one that holds that everything God does is "right".

God made one massive mistake, he didn't whisper to Steve Perry....Stay

[styxman]

Is something right because 'God' says so(the 'Because I said so' defense), or does 'God' say so because it is right?( right and wrong are INDEPENDENT of God's will)

I love this one.

Well the answer has to be looked at very carefully.
First of all would this question apply to an atheist or indeed an agnostic., as one does not believe in a god and one has lost their faith in God? Equally would it apply to a pagan or a druid?
Looking at this from the perspective of a person who believes, or has faith in God(whichever God it may be), if we take both instances, and assuming that we are dealing with a 'great chain of being' scenario, then logically
a. something is right because God says so, that would say that anything can be seen as right if it is deemed so by a higher being , that being God. Therefore Logically if god were to deem it so, that usurping your neighbours property and wealth was right, then the fact that this is indded wrong would be over ruled.
b. If god where to say to say it was right because he believed it was right, then he is exercising an a wareness of what is right and what is wrong, there is no clean sweep as there would be with choice a. Therefore, for god to say so because it is right means that there would be a gradation of what is right and what is wrong, or what could be called a conscious awareness from a higher being.

In theory I would say you could have both, because as we are dealing with the human race, and each human has their own private thought, and unique psyche and perception of such thoughts, concepts and Ideas then each Human will view the question differently and arrive at various conclusions.


Just my two penneths worth...

Lenny, why does God have to say to say, you'd think being as big as he is, he'd only have to say it once, right

Styxman, I sometimes do that I repeat myself I spell backwaards and incoorectly and I sometimes forget what I am writing, be cause I ahve Dyspraxia, which causes all sorts of coordination problems in perception and thought, it also affects my short term memory ...however it hasnt held me back in my studies..im pretty proud of that fact

Seriously

[Little Lenny]

Is something right because 'God' says so(the 'Because I said so' defense), or does 'God' say so because it is right?( right and wrong are INDEPENDENT of God's will)

I love this one.

Well the answer has to be looked at very carefully.
First of all would this question apply to an atheist or indeed an agnostic., as one does not believe in a god and one has lost their faith in God? Equally would it apply to a pagan or a druid?
Looking at this from the perspective of a person who believes, or has faith in God(whichever God it may be), if we take both instances, and assuming that we are dealing with a 'great chain of being' scenario, then logically
a. something is right because God says so, that would say that anything can be seen as right if it is deemed so by a higher being , that being God. Therefore Logically if god were to deem it so, that usurping your neighbours property and wealth was right, then the fact that this is indded wrong would be over ruled.
b. If god where to say to say it was right because he believed it was right, then he is exercising an a wareness of what is right and what is wrong, there is no clean sweep as there would be with choice a. Therefore, for god to say so because it is right means that there would be a gradation of what is right and what is wrong, or what could be called a conscious awareness from a higher being.

In theory I would say you could have both, because as we are dealing with the human race, and each human has their own private thought, and unique psyche and perception of such thoughts, concepts and Ideas then each Human will view the question differently and arrive at various conclusions.


Just my two penneths worth...

Lenny, why does God have to say to say, you'd think being as big as he is, he'd only have to say it once, right

Styxman, I sometimes do that I repeat myself I spell backwaards and incoorectly and I sometimes forget what I am writing, be cause I ahve Dyspraxia, which causes all sorts of coordination problems in perception and thought, it also affects my short term memory ...however it hasnt held me back in my studies..im pretty proud of that fact

Seriously

Yes, seriously. I Have a B.A(Hons) in English language, I secialised in Medieval language and speak it , I also speak french. I am a fully trained literary critic, amd have worked in schools teaching, but I ahve a problem with brain corodination..LOL... Funny isn't it LOL I usually spell check everything I post, but sometimes I dont ahve time so words get mispelt.
I didnt find out until I was coming to the end of my English degree, and was just underagoing studies for my MA in histoical research and my second BA in Hisotry.
I also ahve a voice that reads to me on my computer called Jane because I don't read very quickly. At least people know now if I do make a mistake its not because I cant be botherd I just have a problem with getting things the right way round thats all

[styxman]

Sorry Lenny...I'll know if future

[styxman]

Fuck you've got me doing it now! I meant in the future