It's gotta be killing "The Voice".

[Babyblue]

Journey is just fine without Perry and the tour receipts prove that. He's not missed by the masses. The last 2 memories he gave us were a high school gym tour with a band of half-ass musicians (relative to Journey) and his kamikaze mission circa 1996. Hardly classy.

Well that is how you feel.But many of us feel SP is a class act.

Never convince me he's not a class act.

You see there are people that love that man no matter what he dose. Thanks Deb. He will always be that class act. Perry Rules

[Deb]

Journey is just fine without Perry and the tour receipts prove that. He's not missed by the masses. The last 2 memories he gave us were a high school gym tour with a band of half-ass musicians (relative to Journey) and his kamikaze mission circa 1996. Hardly classy.

Well that is how you feel.But many of us feel SP is a class act.

Never convince me he's not a class act.

You see there are people that love that man no matter what he dose. Thanks Deb. He will always be that class act. Perry Rules

LOL well I wouldn't quite go that far. Like if I found out he really DOES punch kittens, that would be it.

As far as I'm concerned they have all made mistakes in the past. At least he admits and owns, his. That shows a certain amount of class to me. Gotta respect a guy that owns his own poo. @ Brian May

[Rhiannon]

Like if I found out he really DOES punch kittens, that would be it.

Your world's about to go a-tumbling...

[Onestepper]

Journey is just fine without Perry and the tour receipts prove that. He's not missed by the masses. The last 2 memories he gave us were a high school gym tour with a band of half-ass musicians (relative to Journey) and his kamikaze mission circa 1996. Hardly classy.

Well that is how you feel.But many of us feel SP is a class act.

Never convince me he's not a class act.

You see there are people that love that man no matter what he dose. Thanks Deb. He will always be that class act. Perry Rules

LOL well I wouldn't quite go that far. Like if I found out he really DOES punch kittens, that would be it.

As far as I'm concerned they have all made mistakes in the past. At least he admits and owns, his. That shows a certain amount of class to me. Gotta respect a guy that owns his own poo. @ Brian May

I would say that his current behavior though is far from classy. The fact that he can't get past the fact that the band has moved on, and he refuses to speak to his former band mates except through lawyers, tells me that he is the type to hold grudges and may be a very bitter person. He has his reasons, and that is fine, but I don't consider it 'classy'.

[Enigma869]

They've played to millions of fans post-Perry. If he was that important people wouldn't be satisfied without him, but that's simply not the case.

Sometimes you sound as dopey as your sidekick Taco Boy. This issue isn't worth debating with you, because you actually believe that most of the fans showing up at Journey concerts know that they are on their 3rd lead singer since Perry. The reality is that many showing up have no freakin' clue. Also, even if they did have a clue, they are there to listen to the music that Perry made famous and to transport themselves back to 1982, even if just for a moment!

Journey hasn't been remotely relevant musically, since Perry left. I don't care about the tours, because many bands sell plenty of concert tickets. I'm talking about relevant in the larger sense, meaning even fans who aren't Journey fans have been hearing their music on the radio since Perry's departure. I don't want to hear about the gay "Adult Contemporary" chart, because it's about as relevant as all of us old fucks on this board talking about a band who hasn't been relevant in almost a quarter century (with the lone exception of "When You Love A Woman").


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

I would say that his current behavior though is far from classy. The fact that he can't get past the fact that the band has moved on, and he refuses to speak to his former band mates except through lawyers, tells me that he is the type to hold grudges and may be a very bitter person. He has his reasons, and that is fine, but I don't consider it 'classy'.

I'm not going to get into semantics, because it's not worth arguing. You can call it whatever you want to call it but Perry has displayed nothing but class when asked about his former band mates. He has ALWAYS taken the high road in every interview I've ever listened to or read. Meanwhile that fucking douche Schon has thrown Perry under the bus at every opportunity. Just because Perry doesn't want to communicate with a douche like Schon doesn't mean that he's compromised his "class". If I were Perry, I'd never talk to the guy again. So what if he's holding a "grudge". That's his right, and I don't blame the guy at all. I'm sure that Perry has heard many of Schon's douchebag comments about him, and I'm sure that he is quite bitter about what has been said. I think most would probably feel the same way.

As for Perry harboring feelings of animosity because "Journey" has "moved on", as you put it...I find that laughable. Perry is probably pissing himself laughing each time someone sends him an email to tell him that Journey has yet another lead singer. Also, people need to stop saying that this band has "moved on", because they CLEARLY haven't! If they had truly "moved on", they wouldn't be playing 99.9% Perry tunes! That's not moving on. That's the very definition of a tribute band.


John from Boston

[Deb]

Journey is just fine without Perry and the tour receipts prove that. He's not missed by the masses. The last 2 memories he gave us were a high school gym tour with a band of half-ass musicians (relative to Journey) and his kamikaze mission circa 1996. Hardly classy.

Well that is how you feel.But many of us feel SP is a class act.

Never convince me he's not a class act.

You see there are people that love that man no matter what he dose. Thanks Deb. He will always be that class act. Perry Rules

LOL well I wouldn't quite go that far. Like if I found out he really DOES punch kittens, that would be it.

As far as I'm concerned they have all made mistakes in the past. At least he admits and owns, his. That shows a certain amount of class to me. Gotta respect a guy that owns his own poo. @ Brian May

I would say that his current behavior though is far from classy. The fact that he can't get past the fact that the band has moved on, and he refuses to speak to his former band mates except through lawyers, tells me that he is the type to hold grudges and may be a very bitter person. He has his reasons, and that is fine, but I don't consider it 'classy'.

He didn't strike me as a bitter person whatsoever a couple years ago, pretty much the opposite......happy dude. Got the impression he has moved on, but still treasures his time in Journey. He spoke with his former band mates at the WOF? I think they have both moved on (that chapter's done) and sure he's going to go through lawyers for any "Journey" type stuff. And really, none of us have the faintest clue what went on behind the scenes.

[Onestepper]

I would say that his current behavior though is far from classy. The fact that he can't get past the fact that the band has moved on, and he refuses to speak to his former band mates except through lawyers, tells me that he is the type to hold grudges and may be a very bitter person. He has his reasons, and that is fine, but I don't consider it 'classy'.

I'm not going to get into semantics, because it's not worth arguing. You can call it whatever you want to call it but Perry has displayed nothing but class when asked about his former band mates. He has ALWAYS taken the high road in every interview I've ever listened to or read. Meanwhile that fucking douche Schon has thrown Perry under the bus at every opportunity. Just because Perry doesn't want to communicate with a douche like Schon doesn't mean that he's compromised his "class". If I were Perry, I'd never talk to the guy again. So what if he's holding a "grudge". That's his right, and I don't blame the guy at all. I'm sure that Perry has heard many of Schon's douchebag comments about him, and I'm sure that he is quite bitter about what has been said. I think most would probably feel the same way.

As for Perry harboring feelings of animosity because "Journey" has "moved on", as you put it...I find that laughable. Perry is probably pissing himself laughing each time someone sends him an email to tell him that Journey has yet another lead singer. Also, people need to stop saying that this band has "moved on", because they CLEARLY haven't! If they had truly "moved on", they wouldn't be playing 99.9% Perry tunes! That's not moving on. That's the very definition of a tribute band.


John from Boston

Correct, he has not bad mouthed the band, and for that, I guess, he should be commended. That doesn't mean that his other actions are to be held up to the highest standard. He has brought as much of this on with his actions, as they have with their words. They are fucking grown men. They should start acting like it.

And you may find it laughable that the band has moved on. Good for you. Whether that moving on includes the level of success and acknowledgment that they previously enjoyed, doesn't mean that they have not gone on to other things without him. It can be left up to individual interpretation as to whether those things mean anything to anyone.

[Saint John]

you actually believe that most of the fans showing up at Journey concerts know that they are on their 3rd lead singer since Perry. The reality is that many showing up have no freakin' clue.

Then Perry must not be that important if people don't realize he's gone (even though the vast majority do know he's gone). I've been to over 30 post-Perry shows and I'd say 80% of the people know he's gone.

Also, even if they did have a clue, they are there to listen to the music that Perry made famous

It's music Journey made famous.

Journey hasn't been remotely relevant musically, since Perry left.

They're coming off a remarkably successful tour and a Platinum album package. I'd call that relevant.

[Arianddu]

LOL well I wouldn't quite go that far. Like if I found out he really DOES punch kittens, that would be it.

As far as I'm concerned they have all made mistakes in the past. At least he admits and owns, his. That shows a certain amount of class to me. Gotta respect a guy that owns his own poo. @ Brian May

I would say that his current behavior though is far from classy. The fact that he can't get past the fact that the band has moved on, and he refuses to speak to his former band mates except through lawyers, tells me that he is the type to hold grudges and may be a very bitter person. He has his reasons, and that is fine, but I don't consider it 'classy'.

See, I would want to know exactly what Schon/Cain/Valory want to talk to Perry about. If it's anything to do with the back catalogue, money, touring, etc, then it makes sense for Perry to say 'talk to the lawyers' because it all touches on legal stuff. Somehow I don't think they're asking him out for a friendly cup of coffee and a chat about the old days.

And to be perfectly honest - if I had been with a bunch of guys who for years talked about how we were like family, then dumped on me and ditched me because I wasn't healthy enough to tour, who put one record and one tour before my health, and then finally dumped me AND kept rubbing salt in the wounds by implying that it was just my work ethic that was not 100 percent... well, I'd be a little bitter too. I mean, that's how I see it - if they really were like family, if they really did care for him like a brother (and brothers don't always like each other) then it would have been 'screw the tour, there's always another record, another tour, just do what you've gotta do to get better'. And they didn't. Doesn't make what he did right, doesn't make what they did wrong, but on a personal level, that's got to be hard to forgive.

Sometimes you just have to say the relationship got broken beyond repair, and let it go. And if that's the case (and I suspect it is) then he's the one who's moved on, because he's not the one constantly bitching about the other half of the equation; he's able to be civil, positive and wish them well. Can't say the same for Schon at least.

[Saint John]

And to be perfectly honest - if I had been with a bunch of guys who for years talked about how we were like family, then dumped on me and ditched me because I wasn't healthy enough to tour, who put one record and one tour before my health, and then finally dumped me AND kept rubbing salt in the wounds by implying that it was just my work ethic that was not 100 percent... well, I'd be a little bitter too. I mean, that's how I see it - if they really were like family, if they really did care for him like a brother (and brothers don't always like each other) then it would have been 'screw the tour, there's always another record, another tour, just do what you've gotta do to get better'. And they didn't. Doesn't make what he did right, doesn't make what they did wrong, but on a personal level, that's got to be hard to forgive.

Perry never planned on touring. They would have still been waiting for him to tour. The only reason he came back was to "deep six" the Chalfant/Rolie incarnation, fire Herbie, and dismantle Journey once and for all. Just like Herbie said...he couldn't continue so he wanted to make sure no one else did.

[Enigma869]

Correct, he has not bad mouthed the band, and for that, I guess, he should be commended. That doesn't mean that his other actions are to be held up to the highest standard. He has brought as much of this on with his actions, as they have with their words. They are fucking grown men. They should start acting like it.

So by your definition, Perry isn't a "grown man" unless he wants to talk to a douche like Schon? Idiotic argument! Listen, sometimes in life, people don't like each other. Perry has made it fairly clear in interviews that he and Schon simply don't get along. I'm not sure why anyone thinks it's remotely important for any of these guys to be having an ongoing dialogue with Perry. Sure it's unfortunate for the fans that they couldn't put the music ahead of the petty shit, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. They don't like each other so it makes all the sense in the world that they stay away from each other.

Whether that moving on includes the level of success and acknowledgment that they previously enjoyed, doesn't mean that they have not gone on to other things without him. It can be left up to individual interpretation as to whether those things mean anything to anyone.

Only the people with Schon's balls in their mouth really believe Journey has "moved on". There are about 5 people on this board and 100% of the membership at Jackass Talk who would ever make such a ridiculous statement. If they're playing almost 100% Perry music, they haven't "moved on" from anything. The only thing they've "moved on" to is collecting a paycheck off of the voice who made them famous. I guarantee you if Journey were touring and singing all Augeri era hits with two tracks from "Revelation" thrown in, they wouldn't sell out a fucking Mobil gas station, because nobody would give a shit!


John from Boston

[Onestepper]

LOL well I wouldn't quite go that far. Like if I found out he really DOES punch kittens, that would be it.

As far as I'm concerned they have all made mistakes in the past. At least he admits and owns, his. That shows a certain amount of class to me. Gotta respect a guy that owns his own poo. @ Brian May

I would say that his current behavior though is far from classy. The fact that he can't get past the fact that the band has moved on, and he refuses to speak to his former band mates except through lawyers, tells me that he is the type to hold grudges and may be a very bitter person. He has his reasons, and that is fine, but I don't consider it 'classy'.

See, I would want to know exactly what Schon/Cain/Valory want to talk to Perry about. If it's anything to do with the back catalogue, money, touring, etc, then it makes sense for Perry to say 'talk to the lawyers' because it all touches on legal stuff. Somehow I don't think they're asking him out for a friendly cup of coffee and a chat about the old days.

And to be perfectly honest - if I had been with a bunch of guys who for years talked about how we were like family, then dumped on me and ditched me because I wasn't healthy enough to tour, who put one record and one tour before my health, and then finally dumped me AND kept rubbing salt in the wounds by implying that it was just my work ethic that was not 100 percent... well, I'd be a little bitter too. I mean, that's how I see it - if they really were like family, if they really did care for him like a brother (and brothers don't always like each other) then it would have been 'screw the tour, there's always another record, another tour, just do what you've gotta do to get better'. And they didn't. Doesn't make what he did right, doesn't make what they did wrong, but on a personal level, that's got to be hard to forgive.

Sometimes you just have to say the relationship got broken beyond repair, and let it go. And if that's the case (and I suspect it is) then he's the one who's moved on, because he's not the one constantly bitching about the other half of the equation; he's able to be civil, positive and wish them well. Can't say the same for Schon at least.

Agreed that the business of Journey should be left to the lawyers. However, the bad mouthing of him came AFTER he refused to even speak to them when they decided to move on with out him. Does it make it right..of course not. But we aren't talking about the class of JC and NS. We were talking about how 'classy' Perry has been, and his behavior does not denote class. They had ZERO indication that he was ever going to tour again, or that he even wanted to do another thing with the band. Also, keep in mind that their long time manager was in their ear saying to move on..and NS considers Herbie like a father figure. So it's not surprising that he followed that advice. I don't think it was as personal as people make it out to be when they decided to go on without Perry. It was a business decision, and it's funny how Perry can make all of the 'business decisions' he wants (including only speaking through lawyers), but the rest of the guys are supposed to only make decisions with their heart.

[Rick]

I don't think Perry was worrying about it too much. He was still getting paid like he was up there performing when they were out on tour. Even now he gets money when they tour. Albeit a smaller check, but it's still coming in. So to say that Schon, Cain and the boys are getting fat off of Perry's voice isn't telling the whole story. Perry is still getting his checks while they're out there grinding out the music. I'd say it was about a fair deal IF you're so inclined to think that Perry is the one that made Journey famous. If you think it was the culmination of the 5 that made them famous, then it wasn't a fair deal at all.

[Enigma869]

I've been to over 30 post-Perry shows and I'd say 80% of the people know he's gone.

Right...and I'm sure you've talked to 80% fo the people at the 30 "post-Perry" shows that you've attended!

It's music Journey made famous

Perry's voice made the music, period end of story! As I've said to you before, go listen to Cain vocals on his solo album and then get back to me if "Journey" would have made that music famous with Cain on vocals! If you can actually listen to Cain's version of "Faithfully" without hitting the stop button, I'll be impressed!

They're coming off a remarkably successful tour and a Platinum album package. I'd call that relevant.

Get back to me when they're not touring with other 80's super groups. I know you have an endless hardon for Journey and will be on this board telling everyone that the next incarnation of the band is the greatest, but it doesn't change the fact that a band like Heart was every bit as big as Journey. I'm sure "80%" of people you spoke to all told you that they were there for Journey and never even heard of Heart, but anyone with two brain cells connected knows better! You were openly critical of Jeff Scott Soto on this board, and I'm quite sure that everyone of their concerts on the Journey/Def Leppard tour were sold out. Again, Leppard was every bit as big, if not bigger than Journey, in popularity.


John from Boston

[Arianddu]

And to be perfectly honest - if I had been with a bunch of guys who for years talked about how we were like family, then dumped on me and ditched me because I wasn't healthy enough to tour, who put one record and one tour before my health, and then finally dumped me AND kept rubbing salt in the wounds by implying that it was just my work ethic that was not 100 percent... well, I'd be a little bitter too. I mean, that's how I see it - if they really were like family, if they really did care for him like a brother (and brothers don't always like each other) then it would have been 'screw the tour, there's always another record, another tour, just do what you've gotta do to get better'. And they didn't. Doesn't make what he did right, doesn't make what they did wrong, but on a personal level, that's got to be hard to forgive.

Perry never planned on touring. They would have still been waiting for him to tour. The only reason he came back was to "deep six" the Chalfant/Rolie incarnation, fire Herbie, and dismantle Journey once and for all. Just like Herbie said...he couldn't continue so he wanted to make sure no one else did.

That's pure speculation, with no proof to back it up. Herbie says he was going to always going to pull, Perry says he planned to tour but got hurt; no one - no one - except Perry knows the truth of it. You're entitled to your opinion, but at least have the honesty to say it's an opinion and stop presenting it as an established fact.

[Onestepper]

Correct, he has not bad mouthed the band, and for that, I guess, he should be commended. That doesn't mean that his other actions are to be held up to the highest standard. He has brought as much of this on with his actions, as they have with their words. They are fucking grown men. They should start acting like it.

So by your definition, Perry isn't a "grown man" unless he wants to talk to a douche like Schon? Idiotic argument! Listen, sometimes in life, people don't like each other. Perry has made it fairly clear in interviews that he and Schon simply don't get along. I'm not sure why anyone thinks it's remotely important for any of these guys to be having an ongoing dialogue with Perry. Sure it's unfortunate for the fans that they couldn't put the music ahead of the petty shit, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. They don't like each other so it makes all the sense in the world that they stay away from each other.

Whether that moving on includes the level of success and acknowledgment that they previously enjoyed, doesn't mean that they have not gone on to other things without him. It can be left up to individual interpretation as to whether those things mean anything to anyone.

Only the people with Schon's balls in their mouth really believe Journey has "moved on". There are about 5 people on this board and 100% of the membership at Jackass Talk who would ever make such a ridiculous statement. If they're playing almost 100% Perry music, they haven't "moved on" from anything. The only thing they've "moved on" to is collecting a paycheck off of the voice who made them famous. I guarantee you if Journey were touring and singing all Augeri era hits with two tracks from "Revelation" thrown in, they wouldn't sell out a fucking Mobil gas station, because nobody would give a shit!


John from Boston

I would say that most people with half an intelligent brain know that the band has moved on from Perry as their lead singer. If you can't figure that out, there is nothing I'm going to say that will convince you otherwise, and I don't care enough about it to argue with you over something so obvious.

[Don]

I've been to over 30 post-Perry shows and I'd say 80% of the people know he's gone.

Right...and I'm sure you've talked to 80% fo the people at the 30 "post-Perry" shows that you've attended!

It's music Journey made famous

Perry's voice made the music, period end of story! As I've said to you before, go listen to Cain vocals on his solo album and then get back to me if "Journey" would have made that music famous with Cain on vocals! If you can actually listen to Cain's version of "Faithfully" without hitting the stop button, I'll be impressed!

They're coming off a remarkably successful tour and a Platinum album package. I'd call that relevant.

Get back to me when they're not touring with other 80's super groups. I know you have an endless hardon for Journey and will be on this board telling everyone that the next incarnation of the band is the greatest, but it doesn't change the fact that a band like Heart was every bit as big as Journey. I'm sure "80%" of people you spoke to all told you that they were there for Journey and never even heard of Heart, but anyone with two brain cells connected knows better! You were openly critical of Jeff Scott Soto on this board, and I'm quite sure that everyone of their concerts on the Journey/Def Leppard tour were sold out. Again, Leppard was every bit as big, if not bigger than Journey, in popularity.


John from Boston

When it comes to hits, Heart is in a different league than Journey.
20 top 40 hits
9 top 10 hits
2 #1 singles

[bluejeangirl76]

Get back to me when they're not touring with other 80's super groups.

Exactly.

[Saint John]

And to be perfectly honest - if I had been with a bunch of guys who for years talked about how we were like family, then dumped on me and ditched me because I wasn't healthy enough to tour, who put one record and one tour before my health, and then finally dumped me AND kept rubbing salt in the wounds by implying that it was just my work ethic that was not 100 percent... well, I'd be a little bitter too. I mean, that's how I see it - if they really were like family, if they really did care for him like a brother (and brothers don't always like each other) then it would have been 'screw the tour, there's always another record, another tour, just do what you've gotta do to get better'. And they didn't. Doesn't make what he did right, doesn't make what they did wrong, but on a personal level, that's got to be hard to forgive.

Perry never planned on touring. They would have still been waiting for him to tour. The only reason he came back was to "deep six" the Chalfant/Rolie incarnation, fire Herbie, and dismantle Journey once and for all. Just like Herbie said...he couldn't continue so he wanted to make sure no one else did.

That's pure speculation, with no proof to back it up. Herbie says he was going to always going to pull, Perry says he planned to tour but got hurt; no one - no one - except Perry knows the truth of it. You're entitled to your opinion, but at least have the honesty to say it's an opinion and stop presenting it as an established fact.

Dude, sorry I don't litter my fucking posts with "IMO" and "IMHO"...I find that shit mindless. Of course it's my opinion. If you can't deduce that it's not my fucking fault. It's a message board. I thought it was inferred that these are opinions.

[Deb]

And to be perfectly honest - if I had been with a bunch of guys who for years talked about how we were like family, then dumped on me and ditched me because I wasn't healthy enough to tour, who put one record and one tour before my health, and then finally dumped me AND kept rubbing salt in the wounds by implying that it was just my work ethic that was not 100 percent... well, I'd be a little bitter too. I mean, that's how I see it - if they really were like family, if they really did care for him like a brother (and brothers don't always like each other) then it would have been 'screw the tour, there's always another record, another tour, just do what you've gotta do to get better'. And they didn't. Doesn't make what he did right, doesn't make what they did wrong, but on a personal level, that's got to be hard to forgive.

Perry never planned on touring. They would have still been waiting for him to tour. The only reason he came back was to "deep six" the Chalfant/Rolie incarnation, fire Herbie, and dismantle Journey once and for all. Just like Herbie said...he couldn't continue so he wanted to make sure no one else did.

That's pure speculation, with no proof to back it up. Herbie says he was going to always going to pull, Perry says he planned to tour but got hurt; no one - no one - except Perry knows the truth of it. You're entitled to your opinion, but at least have the honesty to say it's an opinion and stop presenting it as an established fact.

Dude, sorry I don't litter my fucking posts with "IMO" and "IMHO"...I find that shit mindless. Of course it's my opinion. If you can't deduce that it's not my fucking fault. It's a message board. I thought it was inferred that these are opinions.

Ahem......it's dudette. Thanks for playing "St. John's wrong again".

[Arianddu]

I would say that his current behavior though is far from classy. The fact that he can't get past the fact that the band has moved on, and he refuses to speak to his former band mates except through lawyers, tells me that he is the type to hold grudges and may be a very bitter person. He has his reasons, and that is fine, but I don't consider it 'classy'.

See, I would want to know exactly what Schon/Cain/Valory want to talk to Perry about. If it's anything to do with the back catalogue, money, touring, etc, then it makes sense for Perry to say 'talk to the lawyers' because it all touches on legal stuff. Somehow I don't think they're asking him out for a friendly cup of coffee and a chat about the old days.

And to be perfectly honest - if I had been with a bunch of guys who for years talked about how we were like family, then dumped on me and ditched me because I wasn't healthy enough to tour, who put one record and one tour before my health, and then finally dumped me AND kept rubbing salt in the wounds by implying that it was just my work ethic that was not 100 percent... well, I'd be a little bitter too. I mean, that's how I see it - if they really were like family, if they really did care for him like a brother (and brothers don't always like each other) then it would have been 'screw the tour, there's always another record, another tour, just do what you've gotta do to get better'. And they didn't. Doesn't make what he did right, doesn't make what they did wrong, but on a personal level, that's got to be hard to forgive.

Sometimes you just have to say the relationship got broken beyond repair, and let it go. And if that's the case (and I suspect it is) then he's the one who's moved on, because he's not the one constantly bitching about the other half of the equation; he's able to be civil, positive and wish them well. Can't say the same for Schon at least.

Agreed that the business of Journey should be left to the lawyers. However, the bad mouthing of him came AFTER he refused to even speak to them when they decided to move on with out him. Does it make it right..of course not. But we aren't talking about the class of JC and NS. We were talking about how 'classy' Perry has been, and his behavior does not denote class. They had ZERO indication that he was ever going to tour again, or that he even wanted to do another thing with the band. Also, keep in mind that their long time manager was in their ear saying to move on..and NS considers Herbie like a father figure. So it's not surprising that he followed that advice. I don't think it was as personal as people make it out to be when they decided to go on without Perry. It was a business decision, and it's funny how Perry can make all of the 'business decisions' he wants (including only speaking through lawyers), but the rest of the guys are supposed to only make decisions with their heart.

Ok, you've lost me totally. I'm saying that, here and now, Steve Perry speaks well of his former band mates, does not dish on them, praises their skills as musicians and speaks fondly of their time together, although he does not currently communicate directly with them, which, to me, indicates that he has moved on from the bad blood of the past. Neal Schon, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be able to say a single thing about Perry without taking some sort of pot shot at him - that indicates to me that Schon hasn't moved on and gotten over it. That's the current state of play as I see it. You said "The fact that he can't get past the fact that the band has moved on..." - I say evidence shows that professionally they may have moved on, but personally/emotionally, Schon at least has not. And I haven't seen anything in Perry's behaviour since '98 that says he 'can't get past the fact the band has moved on'. So he only communicates with them through lawyers- so what? What does he have to talk about them except business? They aren't friends any more, he has no reason to speak to them, why should that imply he hasn't moved on?

I can't work out if you're saying Perry's behaviour now is not 'classy' because of what he's done in the past, or what. If we're going by past actions, shit, no one on the planet comes out clean! As for business decisions, sure, they made a business decision to move on - nothing wrong with that, but you can't divorce the personal and emotional from the logical and stay human. Like I said - doesn't make what they did wrong, but it doesn't mean Perry had to like it. And given what happened, and that he probably didn't like it one little bit, the fact that he has always publically refused to dish on them shows a lot of class.

Just my opinion.

[Arianddu]

And to be perfectly honest - if I had been with a bunch of guys who for years talked about how we were like family, then dumped on me and ditched me because I wasn't healthy enough to tour, who put one record and one tour before my health, and then finally dumped me AND kept rubbing salt in the wounds by implying that it was just my work ethic that was not 100 percent... well, I'd be a little bitter too. I mean, that's how I see it - if they really were like family, if they really did care for him like a brother (and brothers don't always like each other) then it would have been 'screw the tour, there's always another record, another tour, just do what you've gotta do to get better'. And they didn't. Doesn't make what he did right, doesn't make what they did wrong, but on a personal level, that's got to be hard to forgive.

Perry never planned on touring. They would have still been waiting for him to tour. The only reason he came back was to "deep six" the Chalfant/Rolie incarnation, fire Herbie, and dismantle Journey once and for all. Just like Herbie said...he couldn't continue so he wanted to make sure no one else did.

That's pure speculation, with no proof to back it up. Herbie says he was going to always going to pull, Perry says he planned to tour but got hurt; no one - no one - except Perry knows the truth of it. You're entitled to your opinion, but at least have the honesty to say it's an opinion and stop presenting it as an established fact.

Dude, sorry I don't litter my fucking posts with "IMO" and "IMHO"...I find that shit mindless. Of course it's my opinion. If you can't deduce that it's not my fucking fault. It's a message board. I thought it was inferred that these are opinions.

Ahem......it's dudette. Thanks for playing "St. John's wrong again".

Nah, he's just expressing an opinion

[Saint John]

Right...and I'm sure you've talked to 80% fo the people at the 30 "post-Perry" shows that you've attended!

It's an estimate that I believe to be very accurate. Having been to shows all over the country over the last 12 years I think I qualify as someone that can take an educated guess. You say more than half don't know Perry is gone. What do you base that on? Sitting on your ass arguing for gay rights on melodicrock.com?

Perry's voice made the music, period end of story!

It's not the end of the srory, dude. Perry's voice minus Journey's music equals Against The Wall and FTLOSM...which were both directionless works of pure garbage. He needs that chemistry that Schon and Cain provide. And the same can be said for them needing him as well. But he chooses to pet cats, feel sorry for himself and have his "outlets" sell us a load of shit about how he "still sounds like he did in the 80's."

If you can actually listen to Cain's version of "Faithfully" without hitting the stop button, I'll be impressed!

The stop button?!?!?! I couldn't sit through that without blowing my fucking brains out!!! I'd rather get butt-fucked by a Godzilla than listen to that version of Faithfully.

I know you have an endless hardon for Journey and will be on this board telling everyone that the next incarnation of the band is the greatest, but it doesn't change the fact that a band like Heart was every bit as big as Journey. I'm sure "80%" of people you spoke to all told you that they were there for Journey and never even heard of Heart, but anyone with two brain cells connected knows better! You were openly critical of Jeff Scott Soto on this board, and I'm quite sure that everyone of their concerts on the Journey/Def Leppard tour were sold out. Again, Leppard was every bit as big, if not bigger than Journey, in popularity.

On one hand you say I have an "endless hard on for Journey" and then you say I was "openly critical of Soto." You seem to contradict yourself there. And Journey was able to tour to over 10,000 per show when they did "An Evening With Journey" several years ago. And I'm sure they could still do that. Azoff just knows it's better business to put awesome bills together. Ia gree with your points about Heart and Def Leppard...even if they are immensely overmatched by Journey's musicianship. I was at a few of the DL/Journey gigs and DL carried that tour. I'd say about 2/3 of the crowd was there for DL at the shows I attended. This summer I'd say that about 60-75% of the fans were there to see Journey. And I went to 8 shows.

[Onestepper]

I would say that his current behavior though is far from classy. The fact that he can't get past the fact that the band has moved on, and he refuses to speak to his former band mates except through lawyers, tells me that he is the type to hold grudges and may be a very bitter person. He has his reasons, and that is fine, but I don't consider it 'classy'.

See, I would want to know exactly what Schon/Cain/Valory want to talk to Perry about. If it's anything to do with the back catalogue, money, touring, etc, then it makes sense for Perry to say 'talk to the lawyers' because it all touches on legal stuff. Somehow I don't think they're asking him out for a friendly cup of coffee and a chat about the old days.

And to be perfectly honest - if I had been with a bunch of guys who for years talked about how we were like family, then dumped on me and ditched me because I wasn't healthy enough to tour, who put one record and one tour before my health, and then finally dumped me AND kept rubbing salt in the wounds by implying that it was just my work ethic that was not 100 percent... well, I'd be a little bitter too. I mean, that's how I see it - if they really were like family, if they really did care for him like a brother (and brothers don't always like each other) then it would have been 'screw the tour, there's always another record, another tour, just do what you've gotta do to get better'. And they didn't. Doesn't make what he did right, doesn't make what they did wrong, but on a personal level, that's got to be hard to forgive.

Sometimes you just have to say the relationship got broken beyond repair, and let it go. And if that's the case (and I suspect it is) then he's the one who's moved on, because he's not the one constantly bitching about the other half of the equation; he's able to be civil, positive and wish them well. Can't say the same for Schon at least.

Agreed that the business of Journey should be left to the lawyers. However, the bad mouthing of him came AFTER he refused to even speak to them when they decided to move on with out him. Does it make it right..of course not. But we aren't talking about the class of JC and NS. We were talking about how 'classy' Perry has been, and his behavior does not denote class. They had ZERO indication that he was ever going to tour again, or that he even wanted to do another thing with the band. Also, keep in mind that their long time manager was in their ear saying to move on..and NS considers Herbie like a father figure. So it's not surprising that he followed that advice. I don't think it was as personal as people make it out to be when they decided to go on without Perry. It was a business decision, and it's funny how Perry can make all of the 'business decisions' he wants (including only speaking through lawyers), but the rest of the guys are supposed to only make decisions with their heart.

Ok, you've lost me totally. I'm saying that, here and now, Steve Perry speaks well of his former band mates, does not dish on them, praises their skills as musicians and speaks fondly of their time together, although he does not currently communicate directly with them, which, to me, indicates that he has moved on from the bad blood of the past. Neal Schon, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be able to say a single thing about Perry without taking some sort of pot shot at him - that indicates to me that Schon hasn't moved on and gotten over it. That's the current state of play as I see it. You said "The fact that he can't get past the fact that the band has moved on..." - I say evidence shows that professionally they may have moved on, but personally/emotionally, Schon at least has not. And I haven't seen anything in his behaviour since '98 that says he 'can't get past the fact the band has moved on'. So he only communicates with them through lawyers- so what? What does he have to talk about them except business? They aren't friends any more, he has no reason to speak to them, why should that imply he hasn't moved on?

I can't work out if you're saying Perry's behaviour now is not 'classy' because of what he's done in the past, or what. If we're going by past actions, shit, no one on the planet comes out clean! As for business decisions, sure, they made a business decision to move on - nothing wrong with that, but you can't divorce the personal and emotional from the logical and stay human. Like I said - doesn't make what they did wrong, but it doesn't mean Perry had to like it. And given what happened, and that he probably didn't like it one little bit, the fact that he has always publically refused to dish on them shows a lot of class.

Just my opinion.

And I appreciate that opinion. I stated (clearly I thought), that just because he doesn't bad mouth them, doesn't mean his actions have been 'classy' since they decided to move on. He lawyered up. And calls it a business decision. He has had plenty of time to get over them leaving their business relationship, but he has chosen not to communicate with them, which leads ME to believe he holds grudges and may be a bitter person. If they are to be held to the standard of this 'brotherhood', then he should be held to the same criteria. He is the one not communicating, not them. They have said numerous times that they have reached out to him. Is he required to accept it? No. Just like they were not required to keep waiting around for him.

[Deb]

And to be perfectly honest - if I had been with a bunch of guys who for years talked about how we were like family, then dumped on me and ditched me because I wasn't healthy enough to tour, who put one record and one tour before my health, and then finally dumped me AND kept rubbing salt in the wounds by implying that it was just my work ethic that was not 100 percent... well, I'd be a little bitter too. I mean, that's how I see it - if they really were like family, if they really did care for him like a brother (and brothers don't always like each other) then it would have been 'screw the tour, there's always another record, another tour, just do what you've gotta do to get better'. And they didn't. Doesn't make what he did right, doesn't make what they did wrong, but on a personal level, that's got to be hard to forgive.

Perry never planned on touring. They would have still been waiting for him to tour. The only reason he came back was to "deep six" the Chalfant/Rolie incarnation, fire Herbie, and dismantle Journey once and for all. Just like Herbie said...he couldn't continue so he wanted to make sure no one else did.

That's pure speculation, with no proof to back it up. Herbie says he was going to always going to pull, Perry says he planned to tour but got hurt; no one - no one - except Perry knows the truth of it. You're entitled to your opinion, but at least have the honesty to say it's an opinion and stop presenting it as an established fact.

Dude, sorry I don't litter my fucking posts with "IMO" and "IMHO"...I find that shit mindless. Of course it's my opinion. If you can't deduce that it's not my fucking fault. It's a message board. I thought it was inferred that these are opinions.

Ahem......it's dudette. Thanks for playing "St. John's wrong again".

Nah, he's just expressing an opinion

LOL either way, felt good to throw his line back at him.

[Arianddu]

And I appreciate that opinion. I stated (clearly I thought), that just because he doesn't bad mouth them, doesn't mean his actions have been 'classy' since they decided to move on. He lawyered up. And calls it a business decision. He has had plenty of time to get over them leaving their business relationship, but he has chosen not to communicate with them, which leads ME to believe he holds grudges and may be a bitter person. If they are to be held to the standard of this 'brotherhood', then he should be held to the same criteria. He is the one not communicating, not them. They have said numerous times that they have reached out to him. Is he required to accept it? No. Just like they were not required to keep waiting around for him.

Ok, we agree to disagree. I think if you go through a messy 'divorce' you are entitled to never want to talk to your ex again, but if you can still speak well of them to outsiders, well, I think that's classy. You don't agree, and I'm classy enough to say that's cool.

[Don]

The one thing Perry did that I really didn't care for was when Cain went to see him on his solo tour and Perry didn't let him in. People on here will say Perry had every right, but that sounds like a person being petty. A classy person would have invited Jon up on stage to participate in some of the 9 JOURNEY SONGS BEING PLAYED. Perry has shown signs of being classless just like the rest of them. And for those who say he has apologized for some of his mistakes ( Smitty/Ross ), you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. if you want to shit on Neal and Cain, then you are shitting on Journey. Since Perry is considered to be the voice of Journey go ahead and pinch one off on him too. Am I a Perry hater, no way. But They all fucked up one way or another, no reason for one to escape blame more than the others.

[bluejeangirl76]

And given what happened, and that he probably didn't like it one little bit, the fact that he has always publically refused to dish on them shows a lot of class.

True. Someone (who has been a Journey fan but not "in" on all the band drama, therefore unbiased in that regard) mentioned that whole GQ article to me (knowing what a fan I am) and her comment was "Fuck Neal, what an asshole" because of the way he said "fuck [Perry]" and Perry never says things like that (publically). So to the casual fan, things like that come off real bad as far as Journey goes and people do notice who is doing the trashing and who is not.

[Enigma869]

He lawyered up. And calls it a business decision.

What the hell are you talking about? You're talking as if Perry is facing criminal charges when you say he has "lawyered up". I deal with people's finances every day for a living. I deal with people who make FAR less money than Perry does, who have attorneys to handle their business affairs. Contrary to your suggestion that Perry just pulled Perry Mason out of his ass, I'm quite confident that he has probably had a business attorney, since his days in Journey. It's really not that unusual.


John from Boston