The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[Tito]

True...but discrimination of ANY type is not cool. You know it too. It would be no differnt than saying Obama shouldn't be President because he is black. It is an inane comment to say that age, gender, race, or sexual preference should matter in qualification for a job, any job, even President.

Depends. I believe in individual rights first. If a business owner does not want to hire a person because they disagree with their sexual preference they should be able to not hire or be able to fire that person if they choose. Same thing with serving customers.

Being gay is one thing (and IMO is wrong) but this transgender stuff is flat out gross, disturbing, total freak behavior, and should be illegal. I definitely think they should excluded from any so called discrimination laws. If you have an employee named Joe on Friday at 5pm but they come back named Jane on Monday at 8am, I'm sorry but there's a problem. That is not a rational and normal thinking person. They should be fired on the spot.

[Saint John]

FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

Half the Republicans and Democrats in the House and Congress have had the same damned degree of association with Ayers...he's not exactly only known in Chicago.

They worked on the same board together. Any other relationship outside a casual one is, simply, false.

Obama knowingly and willingly stepped foot in his house. Ayers' wife was jailed for refusing to cooperate in the double murder of police officers and Ayers was part of a group that bombed the Pentagon. Anyone that votes for Obama is condoning this behavior.

Mr. Obamas Neighborhood

Thanks for pointing that out. I went to Mount Carmel high school which is just blocks away from where these extremists all live and congregate. I saw Farrakhan's people on a daily basis spreading their anti-American Muslim pamphlets out. All of these guys have close ties. Whether that can be proven doesn't matter to me. I know it to be a FACT. I live here and I know all about these dirtbags. As I've said 100 times before, Obama has been a "project" of these guys for over 20 years. He is their "chosen one" if you will. They schooled him and brainwashed him with their agendas. He is somewhere between Frank Marshall Davis, Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Louis Farrakhan. An anti-American extremist. Those people all hate this country.

[RossValoryRocks]

FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

Half the Republicans and Democrats in the House and Congress have had the same damned degree of association with Ayers...he's not exactly only known in Chicago.

They worked on the same board together. Any other relationship outside a casual one is, simply, false.

Working on the same board is not a "casual" relationship. Starting your political career in the man's living room is not casual, getting $50 million from the grant Ayers wrote explicitly for you to use is not casual.

These are FACTS that have been vetted by everyone under the sun. The only disagreement is what they really have to do with.

I think Ayers should be in jail, not a Professor Emeritus at a university somewhere. I think Obama's association with the man shows a completely lack of judgement. So do many other people.

It is going to be a long 3 weeks for Obama as people start looking deeper at Obama's past, though I still think he will win.

[7 Wishes]

Right. But the Keating Five and McCain...nothing wrong there.

[conversationpc]

Right. But the Keating Five and McCain...nothing wrong there.

Wasn't he exonerated of any wrongdoing by a Democratic congressman?

[peridactyl]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders. Obama obviously judged him by the associations they had in real time together and not his history.
There are many persons in history who have notorious pasts but if they are no longer considered criminal by the community at large and are not engaged in criminal acts at the time of one's association with them it is not an issue.

Unless you want to make it one.

If you think that Obama is being supported by a criminal enterprise from the '06s and he is lying about his intentions to act in a patriotic and responsible fashion,

don't vote for him.
To each his own.
A convenient out if you want McCain anyway.
So vote for McCain.
No skin off anyone's nose.

These are the other Board Members who sat with Obama and Ayers. I doubt any one of them
felt they were "tainted" by the work they did on a specific cause because of Ayers opinions and behavior in other situations in the past.

1 Vartan Gregorian, president of Brown University
(1989"1987);
2. Ted Sizer, professor of education at Brown
University (1983"1997);
3. David Kearns, chairman of the Alexandria-based New
American Schools Development Corporation, at the
initiative of President George H. W. Bush;
4. William Ayers, associate professor of education at
the University of Illinois at Chicago;
5. Anne Hallett;
6. Adele Smith Simmons, president of the John D. and
Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation (1989"1999);
7. Deborah Leff, president of the Joyce Foundation;
8. Patricia Albjerg Graham, president of the Spencer
Foundation;
9. Barack Obama, lecturer at the University of
Illinois,
10. Stanley O. Ikenberry, president of the University
of Illinois,
11. Arnold R. Weber, president of the Civic Committee
of the Commercial Club of Chicago,
12. Ray Romero, vice president and general counsel of
Ameritech. (from Wikipedia).

[conversationpc]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders.

Associating with someone who is a former terrorist is fine if that person has disavowed their past and has shown obvious signs of rejecting their former beliefs in that regard. Ayers has never recanted what he did and has, in fact, said that he should've done more.

[Enigma869]

Wasn't he exonerated of any wrongdoing by a Democratic congressman?

Well, it depends upon your definition of "wrongdoing". I do believe that it was only said of McCain that he "used poor judgement", and no further action was taken. To McCain's credit, he admitted he fucked up and moved on from it.


John from Boston

[peridactyl]

Right. But the Keating Five and McCain...nothing wrong there.

Wasn't he exonerated of any wrongdoing by a Democratic congressman?

According to Wikipedia

Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

I think that is the worst that can be said of Obama as well, if that. He allowed Ayers to offer him political support.
Should he have refused it at the onset of his career based on something Ayers did 2 decades earlier which had been
ejudicated and no criminality determined, even if for technical reasons?

OK, whatever....

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Wasn't he exonerated of any wrongdoing by a Democratic congressman?

Well, it depends upon your definition of "wrongdoing". I do believe that it was only said of McCain that he "used poor judgement", and no further action was taken. To McCain's credit, he admitted he fucked up and moved on from it.


John from Boston

He also worked with victims of Keating when they pursued Keating for damages by tesifying against Keating even though that meant replaying his "bad judgement" to the public . The other four didnt do this , they just hid

[Tito]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders. Obama obviously judged him by the associations they had in real time together and not his history.
There are many persons in history who have notorious pasts but if they are no longer considered criminal by the community at large and are not engaged in criminal acts at the time of one's association with them it is not an issue.

Unless you want to make it one.

If you think that Obama is being supported by a criminal enterprise from the '06s and he is lying about his intentions to act in a patriotic and responsible fashion,

don't vote for him.
To each his own.
A convenient out if you want McCain anyway.
So vote for McCain.
No skin off anyone's nose.

These are the other Board Members who sat with Obama and Ayers. I doubt any one of them
felt they were "tainted" by the work they did on a specific cause because of Ayers opinions and behavior in other situations in the past.

1 Vartan Gregorian, president of Brown University
(1989"1987);
2. Ted Sizer, professor of education at Brown
University (1983"1997);
3. David Kearns, chairman of the Alexandria-based New
American Schools Development Corporation, at the
initiative of President George H. W. Bush;
4. William Ayers, associate professor of education at
the University of Illinois at Chicago;
5. Anne Hallett;
6. Adele Smith Simmons, president of the John D. and
Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation (1989"1999);
7. Deborah Leff, president of the Joyce Foundation;
8. Patricia Albjerg Graham, president of the Spencer
Foundation;
9. Barack Obama, lecturer at the University of
Illinois,
10. Stanley O. Ikenberry, president of the University
of Illinois,
11. Arnold R. Weber, president of the Civic Committee
of the Commercial Club of Chicago,
12. Ray Romero, vice president and general counsel of
Ameritech. (from Wikipedia).

WIth the possible exception of #12, the others sound like big time lefties. As far as not being considered criminal by the community at large, we are talking about a community that is one of the most radical and to the left as any in the country. Easily in the top 3 and quite possibly #1. Again most importantly, the point being missed is they have the same ideology as far as education goes and other social issues. Do you want a education department in the U.S. that is like this and holds these views. I hope to god not.

[peridactyl]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders. Obama obviously judged him by the associations they had in real time together and not his history.
There are many persons in history who have notorious pasts but if they are no longer considered criminal by the community at large and are not engaged in criminal acts at the time of one's association with them it is not an issue.

Unless you want to make it one.

If you think that Obama is being supported by a criminal enterprise from the '06s and he is lying about his intentions to act in a patriotic and responsible fashion,

don't vote for him.
To each his own.
A convenient out if you want McCain anyway.
So vote for McCain.
No skin off anyone's nose.

These are the other Board Members who sat with Obama and Ayers. I doubt any one of them
felt they were "tainted" by the work they did on a specific cause because of Ayers opinions and behavior in other situations in the past.

1 Vartan Gregorian, president of Brown University
(1989"1987);
2. Ted Sizer, professor of education at Brown
University (1983"1997);
3. David Kearns, chairman of the Alexandria-based New
American Schools Development Corporation, at the
initiative of President George H. W. Bush;
4. William Ayers, associate professor of education at
the University of Illinois at Chicago;
5. Anne Hallett;
6. Adele Smith Simmons, president of the John D. and
Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation (1989"1999);
7. Deborah Leff, president of the Joyce Foundation;
8. Patricia Albjerg Graham, president of the Spencer
Foundation;
9. Barack Obama, lecturer at the University of
Illinois,
10. Stanley O. Ikenberry, president of the University
of Illinois,
11. Arnold R. Weber, president of the Civic Committee
of the Commercial Club of Chicago,
12. Ray Romero, vice president and general counsel of
Ameritech. (from Wikipedia).

WIth the possible exception of #12, the others sound like big time lefties. As far as not being considered criminal by the community at large, we are talking about a community that is one of the most radical and to the left as any in the country. Easily in the top 3 and quite possibly #1. Again most importantly, the point being missed is they have the same ideology as far as education goes and other social issues. Do you want a education department in the U.S. that is like this and holds these views. I hope to god not.

I am judging Obama as he presents today, because I do not think he has some hidden agenda or bs like that.

If you do, don't vote for him, and that's fine.

Democracy allows for us to disagree, right?

[RossValoryRocks]

Democracy allows for us to disagree, right?

Agreed...which is why this thread is so much fun!

[peridactyl]

[quote="
Ameritech. (from Wikipedia).[/quote]

WIth the possible exception of #12, the others sound like big time lefties. As far as not being considered criminal by the community at large, we are talking about a community that is one of the most radical and to the left as any in the country. Easily in the top 3 and quite possibly #1. Again most importantly, the point being missed is they have the same ideology as far as education goes and other social issues. Do you want a education department in the U.S. that is like this and holds these views. I hope to god not.[/quote]

The left is as patriotric as the right, whether you believe it or not is not my concern.

[Rick]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders.

Associating with someone who is a former terrorist is fine if that person has disavowed their past and has shown obvious signs of rejecting their former beliefs in that regard. Ayers has never recanted what he did and has, in fact, said that he should've done more.

He didn't say he should have done more bombing. He said he should have done more to stop the war. That could mean any myriad of efforts, including legal ones. To suggest otherwise is pure speculation. It's just a way to smear Obama. With that said, I despise Ayers actions when he was protesting and he should have done time.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Right. But the Keating Five and McCain...nothing wrong there.

Wasn't he exonerated of any wrongdoing by a Democratic congressman?

According to Wikipedia

Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

I think that is the worst that can be said of Obama as well, if that. He allowed Ayers to offer him political support.
Should he have refused it at the onset of his career based on something Ayers did 2 decades earlier which had been
ejudicated and no criminality determined, even if for technical reasons?

OK, whatever....

Yes he should have refused it. THere is no comparison unless you believe in the bullshit of moral relavitism between Keating and Ayres. KEating- thief who posed as a good guy hooking politicians influencing them to give into their greed. Ayres- bombed us buildings, judges houses, didnt care if innocent American citizens got in the way. He ought to have been treated by a leper by all and sundry if he didnt get convicted. And its wrong , dead wrong not to be repulsed by him let alone sit in his living room and get hooked into his network of rabid america haters

[RossValoryRocks]

Right. But the Keating Five and McCain...nothing wrong there.

You obviously don't really know anything about the whole Keating 5 scandal...McCain didn't do anything wrong, but have a moment of poor judgement.

MUCH different than Obama who continously associated with a man, who but for work of some overzealous FBI agents and our faily lienent justice system would be in jail.

[Tito]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders. Obama obviously judged him by the associations they had in real time together and not his history.
There are many persons in history who have notorious pasts but if they are no longer considered criminal by the community at large and are not engaged in criminal acts at the time of one's association with them it is not an issue.

Unless you want to make it one.

If you think that Obama is being supported by a criminal enterprise from the '06s and he is lying about his intentions to act in a patriotic and responsible fashion,

don't vote for him.
To each his own.
A convenient out if you want McCain anyway.
So vote for McCain.
No skin off anyone's nose.

These are the other Board Members who sat with Obama and Ayers. I doubt any one of them
felt they were "tainted" by the work they did on a specific cause because of Ayers opinions and behavior in other situations in the past.

1 Vartan Gregorian, president of Brown University
(1989"1987);
2. Ted Sizer, professor of education at Brown
University (1983"1997);
3. David Kearns, chairman of the Alexandria-based New
American Schools Development Corporation, at the
initiative of President George H. W. Bush;
4. William Ayers, associate professor of education at
the University of Illinois at Chicago;
5. Anne Hallett;
6. Adele Smith Simmons, president of the John D. and
Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation (1989"1999);
7. Deborah Leff, president of the Joyce Foundation;
8. Patricia Albjerg Graham, president of the Spencer
Foundation;
9. Barack Obama, lecturer at the University of
Illinois,
10. Stanley O. Ikenberry, president of the University
of Illinois,
11. Arnold R. Weber, president of the Civic Committee
of the Commercial Club of Chicago,
12. Ray Romero, vice president and general counsel of
Ameritech. (from Wikipedia).

WIth the possible exception of #12, the others sound like big time lefties. As far as not being considered criminal by the community at large, we are talking about a community that is one of the most radical and to the left as any in the country. Easily in the top 3 and quite possibly #1. Again most importantly, the point being missed is they have the same ideology as far as education goes and other social issues. Do you want a education department in the U.S. that is like this and holds these views. I hope to god not.

I am judging Obama as he presents today, because I do not think he has some hidden agenda or bs like that.

If you do, don't vote for him, and that's fine.

Democracy allows for us to disagree, right?

I don't think he has changed. It's sad that you would believe any politician at his word (Obama and McCain included).

[Tito]

The left is as patriotric as the right, whether you believe it or not is not my concern.

This isn't even about left and right, liberal or conservative. We are talking about radicals.

[RossValoryRocks]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders.

Associating with someone who is a former terrorist is fine if that person has disavowed their past and has shown obvious signs of rejecting their former beliefs in that regard. Ayers has never recanted what he did and has, in fact, said that he should've done more.

He didn't say he should have done more bombing. He said he should have done more to stop the war. That could mean any myriad of efforts, including legal ones. To suggest otherwise is pure speculation. It's just a way to smear Obama. With that said, I despise Ayers actions when he was protesting and he should have done time.

No he didn't come out and say that, but it was implied.

Look you may be young enough not to remember the bombings, or may not have known anyone who was affected by them, but for me this is personal.

His little group bombed the Gulf Building in downtown Pittsburgh where my father worked and would have killed or injured him had he not been running late that day.

Ayers should be in prison enjoying the tender mercies of being anally sodomized, not teaching a radical agenda at a college.

[Rick]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders.

Associating with someone who is a former terrorist is fine if that person has disavowed their past and has shown obvious signs of rejecting their former beliefs in that regard. Ayers has never recanted what he did and has, in fact, said that he should've done more.

He didn't say he should have done more bombing. He said he should have done more to stop the war. That could mean any myriad of efforts, including legal ones. To suggest otherwise is pure speculation. It's just a way to smear Obama. With that said, I despise Ayers actions when he was protesting and he should have done time.

No he didn't come out and say that, but it was implied.

Look you may be young enough not to remember the bombings, or may not have known anyone who was affected by them, but for me this is personal.

His little group bombed the Gulf Building in downtown Pittsburgh where my father worked and would have killed or injured him had he not been running late that day.

Ayers should be in prison enjoying the tender mercies of being anally sodomized, not teaching a radical agenda at a college.

I know it's personal to you, and I can understand your position. I just don't think it should be used to smear Obama. As I said earlier in this thread, it's not like Obama and Ayers are planning terror. They have an incidental relationship.

[Tito]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders.

Associating with someone who is a former terrorist is fine if that person has disavowed their past and has shown obvious signs of rejecting their former beliefs in that regard. Ayers has never recanted what he did and has, in fact, said that he should've done more.

He didn't say he should have done more bombing. He said he should have done more to stop the war. That could mean any myriad of efforts, including legal ones. To suggest otherwise is pure speculation. It's just a way to smear Obama. With that said, I despise Ayers actions when he was protesting and he should have done time.

No he didn't come out and say that, but it was implied.

Look you may be young enough not to remember the bombings, or may not have known anyone who was affected by them, but for me this is personal.

His little group bombed the Gulf Building in downtown Pittsburgh where my father worked and would have killed or injured him had he not been running late that day.

Ayers should be in prison enjoying the tender mercies of being anally sodomized, not teaching a radical agenda at a college.

That's the other thing and this should be an issue in my state, Illinois. Why is this guy and his wife teaching at a university, specifically a public one. This man should be fired.

[peridactyl]

Right. But the Keating Five and McCain...nothing wrong there.

Wasn't he exonerated of any wrongdoing by a Democratic congressman?

According to Wikipedia

Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

I think that is the worst that can be said of Obama as well, if that. He allowed Ayers to offer him political support.
Should he have refused it at the onset of his career based on something Ayers did 2 decades earlier which had been
ejudicated and no criminality determined, even if for technical reasons?

OK, whatever....

Yes he should have refused it. THere is no comparison unless you believe in the bullshit of moral relavitism between Keating and Ayres. KEating- thief who posed as a good guy hooking politicians influencing them to give into their greed. Ayres- bombed us buildings, judges houses, didnt care if innocent American citizens got in the way. He ought to have been treated by a leper by all and sundry if he didnt get convicted. And its wrong , dead wrong not to be repulsed by him let alone sit in his living room and get hooked into his network of rabid america haters

Look, darlin', this is about an ELECTION.
If you think politicians have to sit on the right side of Jesus to run for office, you're naive and unrealistic.
If you think that in a political career of any duration questionable supporters cannot be found, you are, again, naive and unrealistic.

If you don't like the LEFT, so be it. Vote RIGHT.

And sit on your moral high horse, which is pretty teetery given the multiple Republican Congresspeople who've been besmirched by illegal moneytaking, sexual scandals, and more.

Not many are as clean as Obama, really.

You don't think so? Fine.
I hear Senator Craig has openings for squeaky clean Conservatives to work for him....

[RedWingFan]

rwf... scott,
here you are dealing with a child that is needing medical attention and you still poke your big stick. the death of my son Trevor is not there for you to exploit whenever you need a come back in defense of the palin baby or any other child. you continue to jab and quite frankly i don't see the connection. how can you be so cold while you are facing the unknown with your own child? maybe your fear is causing you to lash out, i don't know, but i do know that it did not take you long to reference my own pain and in my eyes you are mean and insensitive. now if i choose to post here- stay the fuck away from me!

Where did he "exploit" what you speak of?

I think he edited it out...I didn't see it, so don't know what was said.

Perhaps he did so I'll reserve judgment. What I did see was RWF's reference to what Reardon said. But I don't think that's what Lula was referring to.

I didn't edit it. I compared "troll's" disgusting comment to TNC's disgusting comment AFTER Dean came in to defend TNC's comment. Dean asked for clarification, I gave it to him and he agreed TNC's remark was over the line.

palin or her family do not post here, the remark about baby palin having down syndrome will not hit them, however

After reading this quote, I took it upon myself to point out to Lula that there are indeed people that post here that are parents to special needs children including Down Syndrome and autism, I was simply pointing out that they have feelings too. Just because it doesn't hurt you...doesn't mean it doesn't hurt someone else. And for this I'm "exploiting".

[Rick]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders.

Associating with someone who is a former terrorist is fine if that person has disavowed their past and has shown obvious signs of rejecting their former beliefs in that regard. Ayers has never recanted what he did and has, in fact, said that he should've done more.

He didn't say he should have done more bombing. He said he should have done more to stop the war. That could mean any myriad of efforts, including legal ones. To suggest otherwise is pure speculation. It's just a way to smear Obama. With that said, I despise Ayers actions when he was protesting and he should have done time.

No he didn't come out and say that, but it was implied.

Look you may be young enough not to remember the bombings, or may not have known anyone who was affected by them, but for me this is personal.

His little group bombed the Gulf Building in downtown Pittsburgh where my father worked and would have killed or injured him had he not been running late that day.

Ayers should be in prison enjoying the tender mercies of being anally sodomized, not teaching a radical agenda at a college.

That's the other thing and this should be an issue in my state, Illinois. Why is this guy and his wife teaching at a university, specifically a public one. This man should be fired.

He's not only teaching at one of your universities, he was named citizen of the year by Chicago in the 90's. I agree with you and Stuart, the guy should be doing time, or should have done time.

[Tito]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders.

Associating with someone who is a former terrorist is fine if that person has disavowed their past and has shown obvious signs of rejecting their former beliefs in that regard. Ayers has never recanted what he did and has, in fact, said that he should've done more.

He didn't say he should have done more bombing. He said he should have done more to stop the war. That could mean any myriad of efforts, including legal ones. To suggest otherwise is pure speculation. It's just a way to smear Obama. With that said, I despise Ayers actions when he was protesting and he should have done time.

No he didn't come out and say that, but it was implied.

Look you may be young enough not to remember the bombings, or may not have known anyone who was affected by them, but for me this is personal.

His little group bombed the Gulf Building in downtown Pittsburgh where my father worked and would have killed or injured him had he not been running late that day.

Ayers should be in prison enjoying the tender mercies of being anally sodomized, not teaching a radical agenda at a college.

I know it's personal to you, and I can understand your position. I just don't think it should be used to smear Obama. As I said earlier in this thread, it's not like Obama and Ayers are planning terror. They have an incidental relationship.

You are missing the point. We can debate their relationship, people are going to believe what they want to believe. But, this goes down to they have the SAME ideology as far as education,etc. Is that what you want our education system to be?

[RossValoryRocks]

I know it's personal to you, and I can understand your position. I just don't think it should be used to smear Obama. As I said earlier in this thread, it's not like Obama and Ayers are planning terror. They have an incidental relationship.

We aren't "smearing" anyone, we are calling into question his judgement of continously associating and working with Ayers. It is MUCH different.

Has Obama been a republican you can bet your bottom dollar that it would have gone far beyond asking if Obama exercised good judgement.

[Rick]

Obama did not bomb anyone or any place. By the time he sat with Ayers on a Board Ayers was holding a respectable position in the community, which was supported by other community leaders.

Associating with someone who is a former terrorist is fine if that person has disavowed their past and has shown obvious signs of rejecting their former beliefs in that regard. Ayers has never recanted what he did and has, in fact, said that he should've done more.

He didn't say he should have done more bombing. He said he should have done more to stop the war. That could mean any myriad of efforts, including legal ones. To suggest otherwise is pure speculation. It's just a way to smear Obama. With that said, I despise Ayers actions when he was protesting and he should have done time.

No he didn't come out and say that, but it was implied.

Look you may be young enough not to remember the bombings, or may not have known anyone who was affected by them, but for me this is personal.

His little group bombed the Gulf Building in downtown Pittsburgh where my father worked and would have killed or injured him had he not been running late that day.

Ayers should be in prison enjoying the tender mercies of being anally sodomized, not teaching a radical agenda at a college.

I know it's personal to you, and I can understand your position. I just don't think it should be used to smear Obama. As I said earlier in this thread, it's not like Obama and Ayers are planning terror. They have an incidental relationship.

You are missing the point. We can debate their relationship, people are going to believe what they want to believe. But, this goes down to they have the SAME ideology as far as education,etc. Is that what you want our education system to be?

I have no idea what ideology Ayers has regarding education, so I can't comment. I am pretty sure, however, he doesn't teach people how to blow shit up.

[Rick]

I know it's personal to you, and I can understand your position. I just don't think it should be used to smear Obama. As I said earlier in this thread, it's not like Obama and Ayers are planning terror. They have an incidental relationship.

We aren't "smearing" anyone, we are calling into question his judgment of continuously associating and working with Ayers. It is MUCH different.

Has Obama been a republican you can bet your bottom dollar that it would have gone far beyond asking if Obama exercised good judgement.

You've been "calling into question" this relationship for 127 pages now. I think there's an agenda.

[RossValoryRocks]

I have no idea what ideology Ayers has regarding education, so I can't comment. I am pretty sure, however, he doesn't teach people how to blow shit up.

He has stated on more than one occasion that he (Ayers) wants to radicalize the youth of the United States.

I don't know if bomb making is part of the curriculum, but I am sure other radical ideals are being espoused.