The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[7 Wishes]

7 you are out of your league...you don't even really understand what you are posting about...which is funny.

The left started it, the right contributed to it, and they all got rich while screwing us.

But for SURE the Democrats started this. As Skylorde said, it was BAD regulation that started this mess and that falls squarely at the feet of the left.

Once again, Stu, you insist on making it personal with me, and I just don't understand why you feel the need to continue that trend.

I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about...if you actually read the article or any of the other 50 posts I've made on this thread, you would be able to connect the dots; or in lieu of that, at least recognize that you're not always right.

Again, READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE.

After that, try to remember that the deregulation that caused this recession is YOUR PARTY'S SPECIALTY. McCain and Bush have led the way on this front.

But I don't expect you, ShroomLorde, LieFinder, or Dave to actually READ something that factually contradicts you. I at least afford you guys that, and have readily admitted being wrong before. But I'm not.

Everyone had a hand in this, but Bush and his Administration were the main culprits.

[treetopovskaya]

google the community reinvestment act... and barney frank.

7 you are out of your league...you don't even really understand what you are posting about...which is funny.

The left started it, the right contributed to it, and they all got rich while screwing us.

But for SURE the Democrats started this. As Skylorde said, it was BAD regulation that started this mess and that falls squarely at the feet of the left.

Once again, Stu, you insist on making it personal with me, and I just don't understand why you feel the need to continue that trend.

I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about...if you actually read the article or any of the other 50 posts I've made on this thread, you would be able to connect the dots; or in lieu of that, at least recognize that you're not always right.

Again, READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE.

After that, try to remember that the deregulation that caused this recession is YOUR PARTY'S SPECIALTY. McCain and Bush have led the way on this front.

But I don't expect you, ShroomLorde, LieFinder, or Dave to actually READ something that factually contradicts you. I at least afford you guys that, and have readily admitted being wrong before. But I'm not.

Everyone had a hand in this, but Bush and his Administration were the main culprits.

[Monker]

That's just not true...and is injected with politics Fanni and Freddie are not the only ones at fault here.

The bottom line is that NINJA (no income, no job, no assets). Basicaly, if you wanted a home loan. You could find it...eventualy. You could find a loan no matter what your economic situation. Why? Because whatever bank you went to would sell your loan back to Fannie and Freddie. So, some banks would approve ANYTHING. Why should they care, Fannie and Freddie were the ones who had to worry about getting the payment.

Now, you can you point to 'bad regulation', or 'no regulation'. However, the fact is people were asking for home loans who had no business asking for ANY kind of load. Banks were loaning to borrowers who the KNEW had no way of paying the loan.

Then to multiply the problem these NINJA loans were bought and sold and were actualy viewed as quality investments...and for a while they WERE earning investors a lot of money. However, anybody who looked at the root of where these investments originated from should have known it was an extremely risky venture they were getting into. That is where Lehman, AIG, etc, REALLY screwed up...They were too heavily vested in these loans and when they tanked, and became worth what they should have been worth from the beginning, they no longer had the assets to cover their operations...and were in huge trouble.

So, IMO, this problem goes beyond politics. To blame one party or another is missing the target. EVERYBODY was 'greedy'. The borrowers, the lenders, investors, and government ALL caused the problem and share the blame.

Smart borrowers know if they can afford that house payement. Smart banks did not deal with NINJA loans. Smart investors knew how risky these investments really were, despite the returns they were getting.

People have the right to be stupid. So do businesses. Government by its very nature is stupid. But, that stupidity encroached on those who act and make decisions responsibly. So, they should all take the blame, regardless of party or politics.

The economy is already wrecked, and its worst state since the Depression, if not worse.

It just cannot possibly get worse.

Republicans have NO IDEA how economics work. They've failed time and time again since the last true fiscal conservative, Ike, was President.

We agree, the economy is wrecked. Let's dissect that statement for a minute and ask ourselves why is the economy wrecked. We can get into the nitty gritty details but let's try to summarize shall we?

Ground zero of this economic disaster can be laid directly at the feet of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. All the other parties caught in the blast (AIG, Lehman, etc) are casualties of the shockwave.

Why did Fannie and Freddie fail? The answer is very simple. BAD GOVERNMENT REGULATION. Not LACK of regulation, not OVER regulation but BAD regulation. It all started with another FUCKED UP liberal idea, the community reinvestment act. Further expanded upon in the 90's by Clinton (Republicans hands aren't clean here by ANY stretch). The purpose? To give low income borrowers (even ones with poor credit) the opportunity to buy a house.

In 1999, Fannie Mae further expanded upon their reckless lending practices by offering some borrowers the opportunity to get loans of 110% and zero down. In a nut shell, mortgage paper became a shell game. Banks would write the paper, then sell it to Fannie & Freddie who in turn repackaged them and sold them to wall street in bundles. In a nut shell, Fannie & Freddie's message to the banks was "You write the paper, we'll buy it". If you were breathing, employed and capable of holding a pen, you were buying a house.

Some Republicans and a few Democrats tried to sound the warning bell but their efforts were lackluster at best.

Barney Frank: 2003

"These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Barney Frank: July 2008

I think this is a case where Fannie and Freddie are fundamentally sound, that they are not in danger of going under. They're not the best investments these days from the long- term standpoint going back. I think they are in good shape going forward. They're in a housing market. I do think their prospects going forward are very solid. And in fact, we're going to do some things that are going to improve them.

Quotes? I've got a fucking BAG full of them that shows the left is primarily responsible for this disaster. As I said earlier, Republican hands are not clean by any stretch however the brunt of the blame is laid at the feet of the Democrats for sponsoring yet another fucked up socialist idea and forcing lending institutions with BAD REGULATION to take risks they normally wouldn't take.

Here's the bottom line. The Achilles heel of capitalism is greed. Greed is kept in check by risk. Fannie and Freddie's "We're backed by the Government" attitude caused them to get GET RECKLESS and GREEDY all at the same time.

[Skylorde]

But I don't expect you, ShroomLorde, LieFinder, or Dave to actually READ something that factually contradicts you. I at least afford you guys that, and have readily admitted being wrong before. But I'm not.

Everyone had a hand in this, but Bush and his Administration were the main culprits.

Actually I did read it. We can keep up with each other source for source supporting each others viewpoints but historically speaking there is no denying THE COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT ACT is what started the entire chain of events that got us where we are today.

[RossValoryRocks]

7 you are out of your league...you don't even really understand what you are posting about...which is funny.

The left started it, the right contributed to it, and they all got rich while screwing us.

But for SURE the Democrats started this. As Skylorde said, it was BAD regulation that started this mess and that falls squarely at the feet of the left.

Once again, Stu, you insist on making it personal with me, and I just don't understand why you feel the need to continue that trend.

I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about...if you actually read the article or any of the other 50 posts I've made on this thread, you would be able to connect the dots; or in lieu of that, at least recognize that you're not always right.

Again, READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE.

After that, try to remember that the deregulation that caused this recession is YOUR PARTY'S SPECIALTY. McCain and Bush have led the way on this front.

But I don't expect you, ShroomLorde, LieFinder, or Dave to actually READ something that factually contradicts you. I at least afford you guys that, and have readily admitted being wrong before. But I'm not.

Everyone had a hand in this, but Bush and his Administration were the main culprits.

I feel the need because you are acting stupid in your assertion that all things Bush caused this. Also I am a registered Independent...so how my party caused this I don't know.

I read your partisan bullshit article that you have posted and reposted ad nauseum. While full of BSD and other liberal tripe is decidedly short on any fact that points to the TRUTH.

All the fucking article says is that Republicans are to blame...and yes they are...so are the Democrats and it started with Clinton in his first term...and got progressively worse.

Doesn't matter who is to blame though...it's how is going to be fixed...and Obama's fix will destroy this country outright.

[Monker]

Obama is going to do the same thing and will wreck our economy.

I think you're in the minority as being someone who actually believes that our economy isn't already wrecked! Most of us think it's a fucking disaster!


John from Boston

It is wrecked, and it will get worse. It was wrecked in 1929, and got worse in 1932 when Hoover and Co. raised taxes.

And, it was fixed by FDR installing a bunch of socialist programs, a world war, and a baby boom.

As for raising taxes, Reagan signed tax increases several times...It didn't seem to hurt the economy back then...and, arguably, helped balance the budget in the 90's.

Obama isn't proposing to dramaticaly increate taxes to fight the deficit. Hell, he is increasing the deficit even with his tax increase for those making over $250k. So, even with his proposed tax increase (which congress would still have to pass and send to him), I doubt it would have any more affect on the economy then Bush's tax refund did. It's a bogus fear factor you are trying to throw in the debate.

You are the most complete idiot I have ever seen, you don't argue to actually prove a point you do so just to be an asshole.

You also prove you know jackshit about economics.

I am done am going back to doing what everyone else does here: just ignore you and wait for you to go away.

Oh, please, you are arguing that Obama's tax increase is going to have some kinda negative affect and comparing it to Hoover and the Great Depression. I say your comparison is completely off base, out of context, and wrong.

Hoover had a VERY LARGE tax increase to try to balance the budget...which he DID, for a very short time. But, it is absolutely WRONG to compare Obama's tax increase to what Hoover did:

Personal exemptions were reduced sharply to increase the number of taxpayers, and rates were sharply increased. The lowest marginal rate rose from 1.125 percent to 4.0 percent, and the top marginal rate rose from 25 percent on taxable income in excess of $100,000 to 63 percent on taxable income in excess of $1 million as the rates were made much more progressive.

Is it a 'good idea' for Obama to raise taxes on those make > 250k, and cut everybody elses? Not really. But, it is absolutely wrong to compare it to what Hoover did...which is to raise taxes on everybody.

As I said, I doubt it will any more affect on the economy then Bush's 'stimulus' checks.

[SteveForever]

Obama has basically won, the analysts on MSNBC this morning had a panel of
experts on there and it would be a miracle at this point for McCain to get enough votes based
on their ceilings.

[Saint John]

Obama has basically won.

Agreed. Hard to believe the majority of people in this country are going to vote for a guy that has surrounded himself with anti-american, anti-white and anti-semitic people like Davis, Ayers, Wright and Farrakhan.

[strangegrey]

Good...McCain was/is a fraud of a republican anyway....same with Bush.

This country doesn't need another 4 years of a democrat wearing Republican clothing in all the wrong places....

Perhaps in 4 or 8 years, the conservatives will wake the fuck up and figure out what they're supposed to be doing...

[SteveForever]

[Saint John]

Good...McCain was/is a fraud of a republican anyway....same with Bush.

This country doesn't need another 4 years of a democrat wearing Republican clothing in all the wrong places....

Perhaps in 4 or 8 years, the conservatives will wake the fuck up and figure out what they're supposed to be doing...

Agreed, but threatening national security by electing a socialist terrorist coddler isn't going to help either!!!

[conversationpc]

Whether you choose to admit it or not, comparing someone to a retard is accepted as everyday vernacular.
Palin's name was dropped in for topicality.
Nothing to see here.

Convenient excuses for being the Melodic Rock board's resident jackass.

[strangegrey]

Good...McCain was/is a fraud of a republican anyway....same with Bush.

This country doesn't need another 4 years of a democrat wearing Republican clothing in all the wrong places....

Perhaps in 4 or 8 years, the conservatives will wake the fuck up and figure out what they're supposed to be doing...

Agreed, but threatening national security by electing a socialist terrorist coddler isn't going to help either!!!

Glen Beck said something last week that was quite apropriate. He said (and I'm paraphrasing) "don't worry too much about which person is elected president, that will matter far less than the make up of congress"

To a certain extent, I agree with this train of thought. The president can do only so much without being reigned in or given permission to do so by congress.


With all due respect, the Republican Party, after 8 years of progressive dismantling by Bush, is in shambles. It has no self worth, identity or purpose....this is self evident. By electing someone who is clearly a product of this system constructed under a failed neo-con game plans is, in my opinion, a worse mistake than electing Obama....who is a bit less socialist than you make him out to be and I'm not so sure that the terrorist coddler attack is justified, because it's hard to prove such a thing...you just have a different view on how he should handle terrorists.

The fact of the matter is that 4 or 8 more years of a republican making liberal policy could literally destroy the republican party and morph it into something no one recognizes. You might not see it...but try to get a distinct picture of 'conservatism' back in either the 80s or early 90s (before Hayseed's daddy did his damage, as well) and it's drastically different from what it is now...and not in good ways either.

I'm no longer interested in compromising my votes...and McCain is a compromise in all senses of the word. He's by far, the worst republican candidate this country has ever had...he was a worse candidate than Bush in 2000, and he still is now. He couldn't best Bush 8 years ago, and Bush is an abortion of a president. How on earth is he the better choice now?!?!? If that doesn't scare the living fucking shite out of people, I can't tell you what does.

It surprises me to no end, to watch people rally behind this loser (in diminishing numbers) thinking he's some conservative messiah. His "conservative" efforts fail, becuase he has zero support on the right side of the aisle. Take a look at the legislation with this loser's name on it..."McCain-Feingold," "Mcain Kennedy," etc...do I need to go on?


This loser, like his failed president predecessor, ran on a campaign of "bipartisanship." Yet, during this campaign, in the midst of the economic crisis, when he tucked his tail, closed down his campaign (except for the financing portion of it) and ran back to washington to "get things done" it became very clear that in addition to the fact that his own party doesn't want to work with him, neither does his former democrat friends. He's a failure...he proved it during the past 4 weeks and that's why his numbers have gone from neck and neck to landslide inside of 3 weeks.

The reason why is because the people who elect republicans *dont* want people who will work with democrats to produce failed legislation. They want republicans in congress and the white house that will WORK FOR THEM. They want advocates for their needs and wants. Not people that decide for them, despite their protests, to vote for liberal policy in the wake of compromise.....

How many liberal voters would stand for that kind of shit, from their democrat elected officials? Ive got a firm answer for you.

Zero.

The left is not running nor has *ever* run on a ticket of claiming to be able to work in bipartisan fassion. Such a thing doesn't work. The absence of true leadership is concensus. Yet, for the past fucking 16 years, that's all we've ever heard from the republicans. These fucking idiots haven't figured out that this doesn't work....

I'm sorry, if this were the private sector, and a group of individuals were given a mandate by their employers (the people)...if they didn't accomplish said mandate, they wouldn't have been given 16 years....they would be lucky if they were given 16 months...and then sumarily thrown out on their asses.


It's time to clean house in Congress and in the White House. Let the democrats run the ship for 2-4 years. If they're right and they do the right thing, we'll all be better for it.....If they're wrong, in 4 years we get to replace them with republicans that aren't frauds. That are true republicans that won't pander to cvnts like Nancy Pelosi and that drunkard piece of shit Barney Frank.

Trust me, there's maybe, 3-5 elected officials right now that fit such a description. The rest of them are career politicians that are no better than the dog shit I scooped up this morning...

[Lula]

Wow...clueless and don't have all the facts...Obama gave $800,000 THIS YEAR to ACORN.

okay mister i have all the facts and know everything, show me the documentation that obama gave $800,000 to acorn. i know of the contribution to a subsidiary and it was during the primary, but when the fraud was spotted he dropped them and is not using them for the general.

i am many things stu, but clueless is not one of them.

[Lula]

Obama has basically won.

Agreed. Hard to believe the majority of people in this country are going to vote for a guy that has surrounded himself with anti-american, anti-white and anti-semitic people like Davis, Ayers, Wright and Farrakhan.

my oh my oh my... now you are linking farrahken to obama? what next?

[Saint John]

Wow...clueless and don't have all the facts...Obama gave $800,000 THIS YEAR to ACORN.

okay mister i have all the facts and know everything, show me the documentation that obama gave $800,000 to acorn. i know of the contribution to a subsidiary and it was during the primary, but when the fraud was spotted he dropped them and is not using them for the general.

i am many things stu, but clueless is not one of them.

It's not a subsidiary. They're one and the same. The "disguise" simply failed and he got caught.

Citizens Services Inc. is headquartered at the same address as ACORN's national headquarters in New Orleans.

[Lula]

Wow...clueless and don't have all the facts...Obama gave $800,000 THIS YEAR to ACORN.

okay mister i have all the facts and know everything, show me the documentation that obama gave $800,000 to acorn. i know of the contribution to a subsidiary and it was during the primary, but when the fraud was spotted he dropped them and is not using them for the general.

i am many things stu, but clueless is not one of them.

It's not a subsidiary. They're one and the same. The "disguise" simply failed and he got caught.

Citizens Services Inc. is headquartered at the same address as ACORN's national headquarters in New Orleans.

got caught doing what?

obama has enough volunteers he doesn't have to hire a anyone to get out the vote. and acorn flags the fraudulent cards, but by law they have to turn then in.

[Tito]

Good...McCain was/is a fraud of a republican anyway....same with Bush.

This country doesn't need another 4 years of a democrat wearing Republican clothing in all the wrong places....

Perhaps in 4 or 8 years, the conservatives will wake the fuck up and figure out what they're supposed to be doing...

It will be too late!

[Tito]

Wow...clueless and don't have all the facts...Obama gave $800,000 THIS YEAR to ACORN.

okay mister i have all the facts and know everything, show me the documentation that obama gave $800,000 to acorn. i know of the contribution to a subsidiary and it was during the primary, but when the fraud was spotted he dropped them and is not using them for the general.

i am many things stu, but clueless is not one of them.

It's not a subsidiary. They're one and the same. The "disguise" simply failed and he got caught.

Citizens Services Inc. is headquartered at the same address as ACORN's national headquarters in New Orleans.

got caught doing what?

obama has enough volunteers he doesn't have to hire a anyone to get out the vote. and acorn flags the fraudulent cards, but by law they have to turn then in.

Apparently you are clueless. If they told you wolverines make good house pets, would you believe them?

[Lula]

Wow...clueless and don't have all the facts...Obama gave $800,000 THIS YEAR to ACORN.

okay mister i have all the facts and know everything, show me the documentation that obama gave $800,000 to acorn. i know of the contribution to a subsidiary and it was during the primary, but when the fraud was spotted he dropped them and is not using them for the general.

i am many things stu, but clueless is not one of them.

It's not a subsidiary. They're one and the same. The "disguise" simply failed and he got caught.

Citizens Services Inc. is headquartered at the same address as ACORN's national headquarters in New Orleans.

got caught doing what?

obama has enough volunteers he doesn't have to hire a anyone to get out the vote. and acorn flags the fraudulent cards, but by law they have to turn then in.

Apparently you are clueless. If they told you wolverines make good house pets, would you believe them?

how about enlightenment rather than insult? and i'll tell you what tito, clueless is thinking your hero jon cain is a stellar man always doing the right thing.

[Saint John]

Obama has basically won.

Agreed. Hard to believe the majority of people in this country are going to vote for a guy that has surrounded himself with anti-american, anti-white and anti-semitic people like Davis, Ayers, Wright and Farrakhan.

my oh my oh my... now you are linking farrahken to obama? what next?

Absolutely. The church Obama attended gave Farrakhan an award...a very prestigious award. Obama didn't object in any way. Additionally, they're all part of the same Hyde Park ultra-left circle. Obama has only distanced himself from these nuts when he's absolutely had to. Shit, he all but begged Wright to just behave til the election was over. Shows his true views.

[treetopovskaya]

dems/libs believe what they want to believe even when the truth comes up & punches them in the face they ignore it.

they shoot the messenger.

if the roles were reversed don't think for a second that the obama camp wouldn't expose mccain. it's not mccain's fault that obama shows that he has very poor judgment. why don't you fools hold obama accountable for his own crap? oh wait... that is typical dem mentality.

my prob isn't so much with obama... it's the people that can't admit his wrong doings... but have no prob raking someone else over the coals (palin). obama sends 30 lawyers to alaska and all they come up with is that palin failed to stop her husband from *trying* to get a trooper fired. pathetic.

[Tito]

Wow...clueless and don't have all the facts...Obama gave $800,000 THIS YEAR to ACORN.

okay mister i have all the facts and know everything, show me the documentation that obama gave $800,000 to acorn. i know of the contribution to a subsidiary and it was during the primary, but when the fraud was spotted he dropped them and is not using them for the general.

i am many things stu, but clueless is not one of them.

It's not a subsidiary. They're one and the same. The "disguise" simply failed and he got caught.

Citizens Services Inc. is headquartered at the same address as ACORN's national headquarters in New Orleans.

got caught doing what?

obama has enough volunteers he doesn't have to hire a anyone to get out the vote. and acorn flags the fraudulent cards, but by law they have to turn then in.

Apparently you are clueless. If they told you wolverines make good house pets, would you believe them?

how about enlightenment rather than insult? and i'll tell you what tito, clueless is thinking your hero jon cain is a stellar man always doing the right thing.

I think he does. No information has been brought to my attention that he isn't.

[Rick]

Wow...clueless and don't have all the facts...Obama gave $800,000 THIS YEAR to ACORN.

okay mister i have all the facts and know everything, show me the documentation that obama gave $800,000 to acorn. i know of the contribution to a subsidiary and it was during the primary, but when the fraud was spotted he dropped them and is not using them for the general.

i am many things stu, but clueless is not one of them.

It's not a subsidiary. They're one and the same. The "disguise" simply failed and he got caught.

Citizens Services Inc. is headquartered at the same address as ACORN's national headquarters in New Orleans.

got caught doing what?

obama has enough volunteers he doesn't have to hire a anyone to get out the vote. and acorn flags the fraudulent cards, but by law they have to turn then in.

Apparently you are clueless. If they told you wolverines make good house pets, would you believe them?

how about enlightenment rather than insult? and i'll tell you what tito, clueless is thinking your hero jon cain is a stellar man always doing the right thing.

I think he does. No information has been brought to my attention that he isn't.

So do you think it's the right thing to give oil companies a tax break after making record profits? They're the least needing of any financial assistance and haven't even asked for it, while every day working people are losing everything. Obama wants to help those who need help the most. How that doesn't make sense is beyond me.

[Tito]

Wow...clueless and don't have all the facts...Obama gave $800,000 THIS YEAR to ACORN.

okay mister i have all the facts and know everything, show me the documentation that obama gave $800,000 to acorn. i know of the contribution to a subsidiary and it was during the primary, but when the fraud was spotted he dropped them and is not using them for the general.

i am many things stu, but clueless is not one of them.

It's not a subsidiary. They're one and the same. The "disguise" simply failed and he got caught.

Citizens Services Inc. is headquartered at the same address as ACORN's national headquarters in New Orleans.

got caught doing what?

obama has enough volunteers he doesn't have to hire a anyone to get out the vote. and acorn flags the fraudulent cards, but by law they have to turn then in.

Apparently you are clueless. If they told you wolverines make good house pets, would you believe them?

how about enlightenment rather than insult? and i'll tell you what tito, clueless is thinking your hero jon cain is a stellar man always doing the right thing.

I think he does. No information has been brought to my attention that he isn't.

So do you think it's the right thing to give oil companies a tax break after making record profits? They're the least needing of any financial assistance and haven't even asked for it, while every day working people are losing everything. Obama wants to help those who need help the most. How that doesn't make sense is beyond me.

I don't see how this is Jon CAIN's fault. Maybe McCain's but not CAIN's.

[conversationpc]

Guys...Cut out some of the replies in your responses...PLEASE!

[Tito]

Did TNC really say this below?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
you're dumber than Palin's backwoods retard baby

[conversationpc]

Did TNC really say this below?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
you're dumber than Palin's backwoods retard baby

Yes... See page 99 of this thread. http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... start=2940

He uses the excuse that it's aimed at me, not at the child...Duhhhhhhhhh! Of course it is but it's still calling the baby a "backwoods retard baby". I don't care what I'm called. It's irrelevant. It's certainly his right to say it if he wants but he still an unfeeling asshole for saying it.

[7 Wishes]

dems/libs believe what they want to believe even when the truth comes up & punches them in the face they ignore it.

Sorry, but you're wrong again. We're much more conciliatory than Republicans. And these "truths" are, inconveniently for your side, not at all "true" but actually false.

Your party is in shambles. McCain is done.

[conversationpc]

Sorry, but you're wrong again. We're much more conciliatory than Republicans. And these "truths" are, inconveniently for your side, not at all "true" but actually false.

It depends on what the definition of "conciliatory" is.