The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[Tito]

I think the biggest argument has been the "when does life begin" issue. A fetus developes a body, but doesn't start out with one, as a matter of fact, it does just start out as a "clump of cells".

Let's just assume, for the sake of argument, that we don't know when life begins. It then makes no sense to err on the side of death for the unborn when there's a chance you may be wrong. Regardless, it's never just a "clump of cells". It's always genetically 100% human.

Conserv, my point is simply this, it's a slippery slope and easy to slide off into the abyss before you know what's happening. Make a law today that forbids a woman to have an abortion and tomorrow laws are made that forbid birth control, masturbation, divorce, and many other things.

It's a slippery slope in the other direction also. We've already seen how euthanasia is beginning to gain steam towards being acceptable and recently there was even a professor from a major university (can't remember who right now but I can find it, if necessary) that advocated the killing of children up until two years of age.

Well, that's just fuckin' crazy and he should be launched into outer space.

Another thing that pisses me off is so many of the people against abortion are also trying to stop gays from adopting. Isn't that defeating the purpose? I've got friends who are adopting unwanted children and the children are thriving. Hell, I'd adopt to stop someone from aborting, but right now the world is too consumed with making me and other homosexuals the "bad guys".

I'd let you have gay marriage before letting them adopt kids.

No one isn't saying you can't buttf-ck your boyfriend, but if you want to get married, marry a girl.

How about bisexuals. They've always confused me. Do they flip a coin in the morning to see which way they go that day? At least gays have picked a lane.

But you see, you shouldn't have the right or the power to "let" anyone adopt or not adopt. There are rules that adoption agencies have, if a couple passes those, they should be able to adopt. It's none of anyone else's business.

A normal household: a father (male) and mother (female) should be prefered. Two fathers or two mothers is NOT natural.

Also, I'm not a fan of all this artificial insemination. That should be restricted to married couples (man and woman) who have difficulties having a child. Not the Clay Aiken's and Melissa Etheridge's of the worlds. They should go get laid, the natural way, if they want a kid. Then again, they shouldn't be having kids at all in their unnatural relationships.

[Lula]

Giving a tax break to an oil comapny will create jobs

LOL, good ol "Trickle Down." Yea, the job that SteveW2 or whatever the fuck he is called(should be called Friga Assasin), like a fuckin convenience store clerk making coffee and selling 3 day old bricks, err, donuts to pedaphiles coming off a weekend bender. Oh, that same clerk might also possess the skill of "dirt extracting engineer( restroom cleaner, store sweeper).

Sorry Daniel son, trickle down is an archaic old worn out failed policy.

[BobbyinTN]

That's your opinion. Psychiatrist and mental health officials think differently. Trans-sexuals are not a threat to anyone, and they don't "mutilate" themselves. They have surgery. They must go through a process, a mental evaluation, before they can do anything legally.

How do they pass that. Wasn't homosexually still classified a mental illness in the mid 70s.

I'm pretty sure it was. I think a lot of pressure was put on the psychological community to change that distinction, though.

Bingo.

So you think homosexuality is a mental illness?


I've heard people speak about that, "pressure" before but it usually those that are bigoted toward homosexuals anyway.

It was taken off the list because if it's a mental illness, then so is heterosexuality.

Heterosexuality is normal and needed to procreate. Homosexuality is not.

Look, there are heterosexuals that are born sterile, some get an operation to be sterile. The human population is in the billions. That tired old "procreation" argument doesn't hold water. Heterosexuals produce homosexuals. Some theories are that it's part of nature's own birth control. Over 400 species of animals have been observed to have same-sex couples, life long committed couples, and it's usually about 10% of that species. The facts are, it shouldn't concern you and no one should be discriminated against or treated as second class citizens.

[conversationpc]

Giving a tax break to an oil comapny will create jobs

LOL, good ol "Trickle Down." Yea, the job that SteveW2 or whatever the fuck he is called(should be called Friga Assasin), like a fuckin convenience store clerk making coffee and selling 3 day old bricks, err, donuts to pedaphiles coming off a weekend bender. Oh, that same clerk might also possess the skill of "dirt extracting engineer(sweeper).

Sorry Daniel son, trickle down is an archaic old worn out failed policy.

Extra capital for businesses does allow them to grow their business and add more jobs. There's nothing worn out about it. It's common sense. If I get to keep more of my money, I can either invest it or spend it, in the form of new jobs or new assets.

[RedWingFan]

Bobby I agree with you here. Hence my being a Conservative Libertarian. As far as government goes it has no place legislating a persons personal life, in the bedroom, in the womb, etc. Regardless of my personal beliefs on the subject.

I do believe the less government the better, and that includes government intervention in personal lives.

I agree with you except for the "in the womb" comment. I think innocent human life should be protected and believe that is a libertarian principle.

I said regardless of my personal beliefs. I think abortion is horrid, and that it is the taken of a life. But in this case I don't think it the governments right to interfere with a one human life to save another.

I believe in the end God will judge them, and I am satisfied with that.

So if the mother decided she wanted to sell her "fetus" into a foreign slave trade (labor or sexual). You think she should be free to do that?

I think that is way different than abortion.

I mean she travels to another country signs away the rights, baby's taken by c-section at 8 months. By your guys' standards that's the woman's right to choose that childs fate. Whether it's dismembered in the womb or sold.

[BobbyinTN]

I think the biggest argument has been the "when does life begin" issue. A fetus developes a body, but doesn't start out with one, as a matter of fact, it does just start out as a "clump of cells".

Let's just assume, for the sake of argument, that we don't know when life begins. It then makes no sense to err on the side of death for the unborn when there's a chance you may be wrong. Regardless, it's never just a "clump of cells". It's always genetically 100% human.

Conserv, my point is simply this, it's a slippery slope and easy to slide off into the abyss before you know what's happening. Make a law today that forbids a woman to have an abortion and tomorrow laws are made that forbid birth control, masturbation, divorce, and many other things.

It's a slippery slope in the other direction also. We've already seen how euthanasia is beginning to gain steam towards being acceptable and recently there was even a professor from a major university (can't remember who right now but I can find it, if necessary) that advocated the killing of children up until two years of age.

Well, that's just fuckin' crazy and he should be launched into outer space.

Another thing that pisses me off is so many of the people against abortion are also trying to stop gays from adopting. Isn't that defeating the purpose? I've got friends who are adopting unwanted children and the children are thriving. Hell, I'd adopt to stop someone from aborting, but right now the world is too consumed with making me and other homosexuals the "bad guys".

I'd let you have gay marriage before letting them adopt kids.

No one isn't saying you can't buttf-ck your boyfriend, but if you want to get married, marry a girl.

How about bisexuals. They've always confused me. Do they flip a coin in the morning to see which way they go that day? At least gays have picked a lane.

But you see, you shouldn't have the right or the power to "let" anyone adopt or not adopt. There are rules that adoption agencies have, if a couple passes those, they should be able to adopt. It's none of anyone else's business.

A normal household: a father (male) and mother (female) should be prefered. Two fathers or two mothers is NOT natural.

I don't know what "natural" is. Is it the 50% divorce rate? Is it teen pregnancy? Is it one woman having 3 children by three different fathers?

A mother and a father might be the best possible scenario for raising children, but the facts are that rarely happens anymore and to deny some children a home simply because of your "feelings" about homosexuality is worse, to me, than abortion.

[RedWingFan]

Giving a tax break to an oil comapny will create jobs

LOL, good ol "Trickle Down."

Remember when Reagan first implemented his tax cut. They called it "Reaganomics".....until it worked.

[Tito]

Giving a tax break to an oil comapny will create jobs

LOL, good ol "Trickle Down." Yea, the job that SteveW2 or whatever the fuck he is called(should be called Friga Assasin), like a fuckin convenience store clerk making coffee and selling 3 day old bricks, err, donuts to pedaphiles coming off a weekend bender. Oh, that same clerk might also possess the skill of "dirt extracting engineer( restroom cleaner, store sweeper).

Sorry Daniel son, trickle down is an archaic old worn out failed policy.

Lulu, bad day at work? That language is so unlike you.

[cookieduster]

Giving a tax break to an oil comapny will create jobs

LOL, good ol "Trickle Down." Yea, the job that SteveW2 or whatever the fuck he is called(should be called Friga Assasin), like a fuckin convenience store clerk making coffee and selling 3 day old bricks, err, donuts to pedaphiles coming off a weekend bender. Oh, that same clerk might also possess the skill of "dirt extracting engineer( restroom cleaner, store sweeper).

Sorry Daniel son, trickle down is an archaic old worn out failed policy.

How exactly does Trickle Up work?

[BobbyinTN]

Giving a tax break to an oil comapny will create jobs

LOL, good ol "Trickle Down." Yea, the job that SteveW2 or whatever the fuck he is called(should be called Friga Assasin), like a fuckin convenience store clerk making coffee and selling 3 day old bricks, err, donuts to pedaphiles coming off a weekend bender. Oh, that same clerk might also possess the skill of "dirt extracting engineer( restroom cleaner, store sweeper).

Sorry Daniel son, trickle down is an archaic old worn out failed policy.

I like this one.

[RedWingFan]

A normal household: a father (male) and mother (female) should be prefered. Two fathers or two mothers is NOT natural.

I don't know what "natural" is. Is it the 50% divorce rate? Is it teen pregnancy? Is it one woman having 3 children by three different fathers?

A mother and a father might be the best possible scenario for raising children, but the facts are that rarely happens anymore and to deny some children a home simply because of your "feelings" about homosexuality is worse, to me, than abortion.

Before you go too far with your rant about the failures of traditional marriage. Look no further than liberal policies that you favor that have had the biggest hand in it. Eliminating the need of a father through welfare programs has destroyed millions of families. Mostly in minority neighborhoods. Nice job!

[Lula]

Tito,

Homosexuality is not an illness. It's an innate behavior, and according to the United States Constitution, the only true and revered value is the "pursuit of life, liberty and happiness." So as for homosexuals, as long as he or she doesn't in any way shape or form, prevent you or impede your path from obtaining that particular value, I don't see why they aren't allowed the same avenue? Big deal, so a man loves a man, or a woman loves a woman? I look at Ellen DeGeneres and Portia and see complete bliss. That to me looks very much more positive than say, OJ and Nicole, or Donald and Ivana, or even, Neal and his x number of wives.

Also, you might want to lay off homosexuals. Friga is either on the cusp of, or very much on the inside of said venture. Just because Sarah is not down with tool slobbering from dudes, doesn't make it gospel.

Now that I have schooled you in the art of tolerance, go to the Blackhawks game tonight and feel free to lambaste Shane Doan or Ed Jovonovski, but God forbid, if I hear you called out the Great One, you and I will have issues. I am coming to Chicago in a few weeks, so watch your step tonight.

PS_ Make sure to tell Bryzgalov that Anaheim says "fuck you" and he isn't missed. Well actually, don't, as he is better than the goalie they have now. Scratch that last retarded comment by yours truly.

[Tito]

Look, there are heterosexuals that are born sterile, some get an operation to be sterile. The human population is in the billions. That tired old "procreation" argument doesn't hold water. Heterosexuals produce homosexuals.

Bad genes. So homos aren't born homos. Some homos have been converted (for lack of a better term) to being straight. Human population is in the billions because of 100% hetreosexual procreation.

Procreation does hold water. It's a fact. Not some left wing, liberal theory of why we should gay marriage. It was never done in history, what has changed?

[BobbyinTN]

I think the biggest argument has been the "when does life begin" issue. A fetus developes a body, but doesn't start out with one, as a matter of fact, it does just start out as a "clump of cells".

Let's just assume, for the sake of argument, that we don't know when life begins. It then makes no sense to err on the side of death for the unborn when there's a chance you may be wrong. Regardless, it's never just a "clump of cells". It's always genetically 100% human.

Conserv, my point is simply this, it's a slippery slope and easy to slide off into the abyss before you know what's happening. Make a law today that forbids a woman to have an abortion and tomorrow laws are made that forbid birth control, masturbation, divorce, and many other things.

It's a slippery slope in the other direction also. We've already seen how euthanasia is beginning to gain steam towards being acceptable and recently there was even a professor from a major university (can't remember who right now but I can find it, if necessary) that advocated the killing of children up until two years of age.

Well, that's just fuckin' crazy and he should be launched into outer space.

Another thing that pisses me off is so many of the people against abortion are also trying to stop gays from adopting. Isn't that defeating the purpose? I've got friends who are adopting unwanted children and the children are thriving. Hell, I'd adopt to stop someone from aborting, but right now the world is too consumed with making me and other homosexuals the "bad guys".

I'd let you have gay marriage before letting them adopt kids.

No one isn't saying you can't buttf-ck your boyfriend, but if you want to get married, marry a girl.

How about bisexuals. They've always confused me. Do they flip a coin in the morning to see which way they go that day? At least gays have picked a lane.

But you see, you shouldn't have the right or the power to "let" anyone adopt or not adopt. There are rules that adoption agencies have, if a couple passes those, they should be able to adopt. It's none of anyone else's business.

A normal household: a father (male) and mother (female) should be prefered. Two fathers or two mothers is NOT natural.

Also, I'm not a fan of all this artificial insemination. That should be restricted to married couples (man and woman) who have difficulties having a child. Not the Clay Aiken's and Melissa Etheridge's of the worlds. They should go get laid, the natural way, if they want a kid. Then again, they shouldn't be having kids at all in their unnatural relationships.

Right. My conversation with you is over.

[strangegrey]

Sue the lawyer. What the mortgage company did was fraud as well. Countrywide is paying through the nose right now in a multi-state settlement probably for the reason you just described.

I thnk you're missing the point. We never signed the agreement and in the end we got the mortgage we wanted...the point I'm trying to say is that this kind of practice was quite common 8 years ago. When the housing market exploded, mortage companies say an opportunity. It most certainly is fraud...something I know alittle about. Another thing I know about fraud is that the majority of it goes undetected.

As far as MBS, you are correct but they take some risk in their investment. Again, the investors are S.O.L. Grant it, a limited mortgage bailout would help them out too but not entirely but better than nothing. If they were duped, they have the money and lawyers to seek recourse. People need to be jailed for this, not rewarded.

Screw the rist at this point. Lets look at this purely from trying to save the economy. You shore up the holes in these securities...by small bailouts, deal restructuring, etc. You improve the market.

The ones that got hoodwinked get the bailouts. The ones that didn't or dont deserve bailouts, will have to pay for their mortgages for the rest of their lives.....in the end, the MBS's are shored up enough to bounce the market northward a little...and then you fucking hammer the douchebags that developed these financial instruments into the ground and pound them into legal dust.

[Tito]

Tito,

Homosexuality is not an illness. It's an innate behavior, and according to the United States Constitution, the only true and revered value is the "pursuit of life, liberty and happiness." So as for homosexuals, as long as he or she doesn't in any way shape or form, prevent you or impede your path from obtaining that particular value, I don't see why they aren't allowed the same avenue? Big deal, so a man loves a man, or a woman loves a woman? I look at Ellen DeGeneres and Portia and see complete bliss. That to me looks very much more positive than say, OJ and Nicole, or Donald and Ivana, or even, Neal and his x number of wives.

Also, you might want to lay off homosexuals. Friga is either on the cusp of, or very much on the inside of said venture. Just because Sarah is not down with tool slobbering from dudes, doesn't make it gospel.

Now that I have schooled you in the art of tolerance, go to the Blackhawks game tonight and feel free to lambaste Shane Doan or Ed Jovonovski, but God forbid, if I hear you called out the Great One, you and I will have issues. I am coming to Chicago in a few weeks, so watch your step tonight.

You didn't school me on shit. No one has said they can't be gay (literally happy) but marriage, etc. no way. They can live together and do what they want but they should not get married.

[BobbyinTN]

A normal household: a father (male) and mother (female) should be prefered. Two fathers or two mothers is NOT natural.

I don't know what "natural" is. Is it the 50% divorce rate? Is it teen pregnancy? Is it one woman having 3 children by three different fathers?

A mother and a father might be the best possible scenario for raising children, but the facts are that rarely happens anymore and to deny some children a home simply because of your "feelings" about homosexuality is worse, to me, than abortion.

Before you go too far with your rant about the failures of traditional marriage. Look no further than liberal policies that you favor that have had the biggest hand in it. Eliminating the need of a father through welfare programs has destroyed millions of families. Mostly in minority neighborhoods. Nice job!

What did the republicans who were in power for the last 8 years do to counter that? To blame anything on one party is a little ridiculous. The highest percentages of divorce are here in the south. Guess which group? Southern Baptists. Guess which way most of them vote? Republican.

[Skylorde]

Best bumper sticker I've seen this entire election!

[BobbyinTN]

Tito,

Homosexuality is not an illness. It's an innate behavior, and according to the United States Constitution, the only true and revered value is the "pursuit of life, liberty and happiness." So as for homosexuals, as long as he or she doesn't in any way shape or form, prevent you or impede your path from obtaining that particular value, I don't see why they aren't allowed the same avenue? Big deal, so a man loves a man, or a woman loves a woman? I look at Ellen DeGeneres and Portia and see complete bliss. That to me looks very much more positive than say, OJ and Nicole, or Donald and Ivana, or even, Neal and his x number of wives.

Also, you might want to lay off homosexuals. Friga is either on the cusp of, or very much on the inside of said venture. Just because Sarah is not down with tool slobbering from dudes, doesn't make it gospel.

Now that I have schooled you in the art of tolerance, go to the Blackhawks game tonight and feel free to lambaste Shane Doan or Ed Jovonovski, but God forbid, if I hear you called out the Great One, you and I will have issues. I am coming to Chicago in a few weeks, so watch your step tonight.

PS_ Make sure to tell Bryzgalov that Anaheim says "fuck you" and he isn't missed. Well actually, don't, as he is better than the goalie they have now. Scratch that last retarded comment by yours truly.

[Tito]

Sue the lawyer. What the mortgage company did was fraud as well. Countrywide is paying through the nose right now in a multi-state settlement probably for the reason you just described.

I thnk you're missing the point. We never signed the agreement and in the end we got the mortgage we wanted...the point I'm trying to say is that this kind of practice was quite common 8 years ago. When the housing market exploded, mortage companies say an opportunity. It most certainly is fraud...something I know alittle about. Another thing I know about fraud is that the majority of it goes undetected.

As far as MBS, you are correct but they take some risk in their investment. Again, the investors are S.O.L. Grant it, a limited mortgage bailout would help them out too but not entirely but better than nothing. If they were duped, they have the money and lawyers to seek recourse. People need to be jailed for this, not rewarded.

Screw the rist at this point. Lets look at this purely from trying to save the economy. You shore up the holes in these securities...by small bailouts, deal restructuring, etc. You improve the market.

The ones that got hoodwinked get the bailouts. The ones that didn't or dont deserve bailouts, will have to pay for their mortgages for the rest of their lives.....in the end, the MBS's are shored up enough to bounce the market northward a little...and then you fucking hammer the douchebags that developed these financial instruments into the ground and pound them into legal dust.

Bottom line, the bailout ain't gonna work and it will probably do more damage than anything. It's going to fall no matter what. Just get it over with.

[Lula]

[

You didn't school me on shit. No one has said they can't be gay (literally happy) but marriage, etc. no way. They can live together and do what they want but they should not get married.

Two things.

1) Your rapid, yet hostile response earned you a dirty unwashed crank in your face when you pass out in Chitown in 3 weeks and Dan and I are going to take pics and post them here.

2) Who gives a shit if they are "married?" So they wear a ring and call each other "honey." What's the big deal? My God, why does other's non threatening behaviour bother you? It's not like a couple pipe cleaners are weilding knives and lopping off domes or something.

[Tito]

1) Your rapid, yet hostile response earned you a dirty unwashed crank in your face when you pass out in Chitown in 3 weeks and Dan and I are going to take pics and post them here.

I'm going out of town that weekend.

[RedWingFan]

A normal household: a father (male) and mother (female) should be prefered. Two fathers or two mothers is NOT natural.

I don't know what "natural" is. Is it the 50% divorce rate? Is it teen pregnancy? Is it one woman having 3 children by three different fathers?

A mother and a father might be the best possible scenario for raising children, but the facts are that rarely happens anymore and to deny some children a home simply because of your "feelings" about homosexuality is worse, to me, than abortion.

Before you go too far with your rant about the failures of traditional marriage. Look no further than liberal policies that you favor that have had the biggest hand in it. Eliminating the need of a father through welfare programs has destroyed millions of families. Mostly in minority neighborhoods. Nice job!

What did the republicans who were in power for the last 8 years do to counter that? To blame anything on one party is a little ridiculous. The highest percentages of divorce are here in the south. Guess which group? Southern Baptists. Guess which way most of them vote? Republican.

Well the republican's were able to get Clinton to sign welfare reform in the '90's (after he vetoed it twice) Absolutely there is more work to be done. Some of us here argue and push for what's right. While some of you argue against it.

[Lula]

1) Your rapid, yet hostile response earned you a dirty unwashed crank in your face when you pass out in Chitown in 3 weeks and Dan and I are going to take pics and post them here.

I'm going out of town that weekend.

I am going with you.

Cranks, Cranks and more Cranks....

[Lula]

Well the republican's were able to get Clinton to sign welfare reform in the '90's (after he vetoed it twice) Absolutely there is more work to be done. Some of us here argue and push for what's right. While some of you argue against it.

Erroneous fucker.

Clinton campaigned on and wanted welfare reform. You make it sound like the "Democratic president had his feet held to the fuckin fire." Gimme a break.

Now go call Fact Finder and get an archaic link produced by Drudge or Limbfat and post it here saying otherwise. I don't care. You fuckers can't throw a fastball by me and you know it. I will turn that around faster than you can say Ted Stevens.

[strangegrey]

Bottom line, the bailout ain't gonna work and it will probably do more damage than anything. It's going to fall no matter what. Just get it over with.

No argument there...Im not saying it's going to.

I would rather see the fucking bottom fall out and let companies that should fail fail....even if it means half the fucking companies on the DOW and 20 percent of the s&p500

[Tito]

Well the republican's were able to get Clinton to sign welfare reform in the '90's (after he vetoed it twice) Absolutely there is more work to be done. Some of us here argue and push for what's right. While some of you argue against it.

Erroneous fucker.

Clinton campaigned on and wanted welfare reform. You make it sound like the "Democratic president had his feet held to the fuckin fire." Gimme a break.

Now go call Fact Finder and get an archaic link produced by Drudge or Limbfat and post it here saying otherwise. I don't care. You fuckers can't throw a fastball by me and you know it. I will turn that around faster than you can say Ted Stevens.

A republican congress passed it.

They're still all shitheads. Bush, Clinton, Gingrich, Delay, Pelosi, McCain, Obama, Gore, Biden, Reid, etc.

Basically everybody but Ron Paul and Tom Tancredo and maybe a couple of more.

[Lula]

Bottom line, the bailout ain't gonna work and it will probably do more damage than anything. It's going to fall no matter what. Just get it over with.

No argument there...Im not saying it's going to.

I would rather see the fucking bottom fall out and let companies that should fail fail....even if it means half the fucking companies on the DOW and 20 percent of the s&p500

I have read and seen it all.

The bailout will work. It is ugly and unwanted but like taxes, necessary. Paulson is a son of a bitch but he is smart and knows what he needs to do.

Frank, you can't let companies fail if there is a way to not let them. That is what the government can and should do in this case.

[RedWingFan]

Well the republican's were able to get Clinton to sign welfare reform in the '90's (after he vetoed it twice) Absolutely there is more work to be done. Some of us here argue and push for what's right. While some of you argue against it.

Erroneous fucker.

Clinton campaigned on and wanted welfare reform.

No, he campaigned on "middle class tax cuts." Then he was elected and raised them. What a great politician.

You make it sound like the "Democratic president had his feet held to the fuckin fire." Gimme a break.

Like I said, he vetoed it twice, signed it prior to his re-election against Dole on advice from his campaign advisors. That is "feet to the fire."

[Tito]

Bottom line, the bailout ain't gonna work and it will probably do more damage than anything. It's going to fall no matter what. Just get it over with.

No argument there...Im not saying it's going to.

I would rather see the fucking bottom fall out and let companies that should fail fail....even if it means half the fucking companies on the DOW and 20 percent of the s&p500

I have read and seen it all.

The bailout will work. It is ugly and unwanted but like taxes, necessary. Paulson is a son of a bitch but he is smart and knows what he needs to do.

Frank, you can't let companies fail if there is a way to not let them. That is what the government can and should do in this case.

If you believe it is truly going to work. Then when it doesn't I want you to blame Obama (who will be in charge) that he blew it then. Because it will be on his watch when it collapses and since you think the bailout will/would've worked that means Obama screwed it up.

Also, I'm telling you right now when the Credit Card crisis hits, I don't want to hear one thing about bailouts for the card holders or the stupid lenders that gave credit cards to people that didn't deserve them and/or limits they shouldn't had. Eat it! If they do, do that. I will be a Circuit City that night buying the top of the line TV, stereo, and electronic system they got and not paying my credit card bill.