The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[ProgRocker53]

I shook John McCain's hand at a rally tonight.

That was one epic experience. I feel inspired.

And to think just two months ago I was under the spell of Obamamania.

So glad I woke up..

[The_Noble_Cause]

I shook John McCain's hand at a rally tonight.

That was one epic experience. I feel inspired.

And to think just two months ago I was under the spell of Obamamania.

So glad I woke up..

Maybe you're just under a different spell?
I never caught the Obama bug - even his alleged landmark 2004 speech left me nonplussed.
Prog, what drew you to him in the first place, if I may ask?

[S2M]

I shook John McCain's hand at a rally tonight.

That was one epic experience. I feel inspired.

And to think just two months ago I was under the spell of Obamamania.

So glad I woke up..

Post here when you REALLY wake up.....on Nov. 5th - when Obama is the new president.

[ProgRocker53]

I shook John McCain's hand at a rally tonight.

That was one epic experience. I feel inspired.

And to think just two months ago I was under the spell of Obamamania.

So glad I woke up..

Maybe you're just under a different spell?
I never caught the Obama bug - even his alleged landmark 2004 speech left me nonplussed.
Prog, what drew you to him in the first place, if I may ask?

I don't know.. I really don't know. This year has been a bit of a transitional phase for me, I've changed my ways of thinking in so many ways about so many facets of life.... and with that, changed some of my political beliefs. I used to be all about revolution, transition, change, new ground, total equality, etc... but then I realized that these utopian mindsets have rarely and will probably never work in practice...

I hated the second Bush term so much that the catch-all "CHAAAANGE" mantra put me into a zombie-like political trance, and I found myself unable to truly defend my Obama support. When he and McCain were solidly defined as the final two candidates I took alot of time to compare them head-to-head, watching every major news channel equally and trying to figure out which related the most to my personal interests, and which man I could trust the most....

...and recently, I decided that man was John McCain.

[ProgRocker53]

I shook John McCain's hand at a rally tonight.

That was one epic experience. I feel inspired.

And to think just two months ago I was under the spell of Obamamania.

So glad I woke up..

Post here when you REALLY wake up.....on Nov. 5th - when Obama is the new president.

I cannot and will not judge or think of any person differently for their political leanings (Oh how I wish my friends could do the same), because at certain points in my life I've viewed myself as a Republican, Democrat, AND a Libertarian...

....and to be honest, while I don't feel as if I can truly trust Obama, I don't think he'll be a BAD president.. he just won't be a GOOD one.

On Nov. 5th, if Obama is the Commander-in-Chief... I'll shrug it off and look forward to getting some wealth redistributed my way or something..

If McCain gets it, I'll sleep a little easier... life won't change for me too much under either, but at least McCain will have me feeling much safer.

[strangegrey]

While some people might be all frigging pissed off and offended at the 'Fuck McCain' graffitti...I personally think there isn't enough of it.

Until someone tags your garage

Seriously, I'm with you on "Fuck McCain" however the message itself "Fuck McCain" and appearing as graffiti on random garage doors isn't likely to sway those voters who are leaning towards him

Mike, have you seen my garage lately? "Fuck McCain" sprayed on my garage in black krylon might actually be an improvement!!

I fail to see your point. Your last 4 posts have been TOTALLY incoherent to me, you are the second most ignorant poster on this board, what can be said except you are delusional and uninspiring and frankly a bore.
Go write "Fuck McCain" on someones house with Frank(he's 3rd) , we know you want to.

Oh, geez...I'm so sorry...I'm not buying the McCain's a canary hero sob story, therefore he's bestowed the right to desecrate the presidency...right? Blow it out your ass. I'm no lemming. Bush and McCain have run the republican party squarely into the shitter....and I'm not going to follow them into it in doing my so-called duty as party faithful and voting for them. To do so would be the textbook definition of ignorance.

Instead, I'm using my power as a voter to send the republican party a message that I will no longer tolerate such embarrassment on my watch...and I will demand that the RNC front candidates of worth, before I vote for them again. If you think that's ignorant, you've obviously been sucking the elephant party koolaid laced with sterno FAR too long.

In fact, I'll submit, you're the ignorant one, because you've been here for as long as I can remember, defending the two biggest embarrassments to ever soil the unwashed underpants of the republican party...and ultimately advocating their laughable legitimacy of office.

I am grateful and proud to know that there are enough republicans still left out there in the US that wont fall for such a falacy of leadership...and elect to send the RNC a long overdue message by NOT voting for the same failed leadership that has resulted in what will amount to the second great depression, a just war that was never finished in order to finish one that should have never been started, massive deficit spending, etc, etc I can go on....hell, I don't need to. Plenty of people here who can fill in the blanks.


You might sit there and try to dig up some news post from drudge or newsmax or some other right-wing news site, in a desperate effort to show that Bush's failed presidency was really the fault of a liberal congress, or the dreaded left-wing media, or aliens escaped from area 51. I'll remind you sir. I read them all...you shite wont work on me.

Regardless, I defy you to refute the fact that:

* over the past 14 years, the so-called republicans have held a majority in at least the house or the senate in congress for 12 of those 14 years.
* The last 8 years have been conducted with a so-called republican in the white house.

I'm sorry...this sorta falls in line with a captain accepting responsibility for the conduct of his crew. 6 out of 8 years under Bush, he had a majority in congress....and that fucktart did the damage he did?!?!?!? WTF planet are we on!?!?!!?!?

You still think the financial ruin that has gripped this country was Barney Frank's fault? I know the guy's a fat fucktard that can't put a coherent sentence together without choking on a meatball hero....but let's get real here. This failure of this economy is a failure of POLICY. Policy is ONLY created by majority.

Please go back, scour your sources again....and remind me who held majority during whatever era you want to assign blame for the current financial crisis. There's a damn good fucking chance republican's were in the watch tower, buddy.



You still think that drunk, 2.0 gpa piece of shit was a good president? He couldn't reel in an out of control republican congress. Instead, he let go of the fucking reigns and let them stink up the new millenium. You want to elect a lying piece of shit psycho-head-case prepared to repeat the past 4 years in his place!?!?!?


I'm sorry. The RESPONSIBLE republicans in this country are going to prevent that from ever happening.





I'm ignorant? Dude, buy a fucking mirror.....it's been a long time.

[Skylorde]

I won't even bother posting the articles that prove the Bush Administration pushed this more than Clinton, and in fact spearheaded efforts to make more people have access to loans than ever before.

Please do, I would like to look into it. Assuming you are right, what will it prove? He's already guilty so he'll be more guilty?

[Voyager]

I shook John McCain's hand at a rally tonight.

That was one epic experience. I feel inspired.

And to think just two months ago I was under the spell of Obamamania.

So glad I woke up..

Good luck with that. Hope you don't get addicted to that good feeling too much... because it's only going to last for another week and a half. I hope you wake up and see the light before then. Lattes are on me.

[ProgRocker53]

I shook John McCain's hand at a rally tonight.

That was one epic experience. I feel inspired.

And to think just two months ago I was under the spell of Obamamania.

So glad I woke up..

Good luck with that. Hope you don't get addicted to that good feeling too much... because it's only going to last for another week and a half. I hope you wake up and see the light before then. Lattes are on me.

Hahaha, you all shouldn't worry about my little ol' McCain vote. After all, Obama's already measured the drapes, written his acceptance speech, and put up a poster of Marx in the Oval office.

At least, that's what America told me.

[strangegrey]

Hahaha, you all shouldn't worry about my little ol' McCain vote. After all, Obama's already measured the drapes, written his acceptance speech, and put up a poster of Marx in the Oval office.

At least, that's what America told me.

America told you that? It sounds awfully similar to the idiocy that DisDain's been spewing at campaign stops.

You already sound dreadfully confused, logically. America does NOT equal McCain....ever.

[ProgRocker53]

Hahaha, you all shouldn't worry about my little ol' McCain vote. After all, Obama's already measured the drapes, written his acceptance speech, and put up a poster of Marx in the Oval office.

At least, that's what America told me.

America told you that? It sounds awfully similar to the idiocy that DisDain's been spewing at campaign stops.

You already sound dreadfully confused, logically. America does NOT equal McCain....ever.

I was mainly taking the piss.

[Voyager]

I shook John McCain's hand at a rally tonight.

That was one epic experience. I feel inspired.

And to think just two months ago I was under the spell of Obamamania.

So glad I woke up..

Good luck with that. Hope you don't get addicted to that good feeling too much... because it's only going to last for another week and a half. I hope you wake up and see the light before then. Lattes are on me.

Hahaha, you all shouldn't worry about my little ol' McCain vote. After all, Obama's already measured the drapes, written his acceptance speech, and put up a poster of Marx in the Oval office.

At least, that's what America told me.

Poster of Marx? Man... I think mcCain hypnotized you with that handshake. You need to go to an Obama rally ASAP to get deprogrammed!

[Skylorde]

You still think the financial ruin that has gripped this country was Barney Frank's fault? I know the guy's a fat fucktard that can't put a coherent sentence together without choking on a meatball hero....but let's get real here. This failure of this economy is a failure of POLICY. Policy is ONLY created by majority.

You just hit warp 10 and jettisoned your reactor core on the other side of the galaxy. You are correct, this is a policy failure and this policy was in place before Bush got in office. Whether or not he furthered that along remains to be seen, Voyager seems to have a take on that I want to check out. Regardless, this train was at full speed in 1999. Refer to the NY times article in 1999 that trumpets Fannie & Freddies ZERO DOWN loans and loans up to, I think, 125% of value.

Regardless of how much incriminating evidence you can come up with on the Republicans & the financial mess (nothing will suprise me), it will never, ever absolve the Democrats and the mountain of irrefutable evidence that proves their culpability.

[strangegrey]

You still think the financial ruin that has gripped this country was Barney Frank's fault? I know the guy's a fat fucktard that can't put a coherent sentence together without choking on a meatball hero....but let's get real here. This failure of this economy is a failure of POLICY. Policy is ONLY created by majority.

You just hit warp 10 and jettisoned your reactor core on the other side of the galaxy. You are correct, this is a policy failure and this policy was in place before Bush got in office. Whether or not he furthered that along remains to be seen, Voyager seems to have a take on that I want to check out. Regardless, this train was at full speed in 1999. Refer to the NY times article in 1999 that trumpets Fannie & Freddies ZERO DOWN loans and loans up to, I think, 125% of value.

Regardless of how much incriminating evidence you can come up with on the Republicans & the financial mess (nothing will suprise me), it will never, ever absolve the Democrats and the mountain of irrefutable evidence that proves their culpability.

absolutely ...and I agree with you. There are VERY guilty parties on BOTH sides of the aisle.

However, congressional democracy is constructed in such a fashion so that if anyone in the minority wanted to do damage, he/she would have to subvert a person in the majority to comply with the minority person's wishes.

It is to that end that I hold the republican majority responsible for it's actions, without question. It doesn't matter who's responsible. The group in the majority had not only the power to stop it, but in a way, a fiduciary responsibility to the american people. They failed....they must burn.

McCain deserves an equal share of that blame.

[Rick]

You still think the financial ruin that has gripped this country was Barney Frank's fault? I know the guy's a fat fucktard that can't put a coherent sentence together without choking on a meatball hero....but let's get real here. This failure of this economy is a failure of POLICY. Policy is ONLY created by majority.

You just hit warp 10 and jettisoned your reactor core on the other side of the galaxy. You are correct, this is a policy failure and this policy was in place before Bush got in office. Whether or not he furthered that along remains to be seen, Voyager seems to have a take on that I want to check out. Regardless, this train was at full speed in 1999. Refer to the NY times article in 1999 that trumpets Fannie & Freddies ZERO DOWN loans and loans up to, I think, 125% of value.

Regardless of how much incriminating evidence you can come up with on the Republicans & the financial mess (nothing will suprise me), it will never, ever absolve the Democrats and the mountain of irrefutable evidence that proves their culpability.

absolutely ...and I agree with you. There are VERY guilty parties on BOTH sides of the aisle.

However, congressional democracy is constructed in such a fashion so that if anyone in the minority wanted to do damage, he/she would have to subvert a person in the majority to comply with the minority person's wishes.

It is to that end that I hold the republican majority responsible for it's actions, without question. It doesn't matter who's responsible. The group in the majority had not only the power to stop it, but in a way, a fiduciary responsibility to the american people. They failed....they must burn.

McCain deserves an equal share of that blame.

I don't always agree with everything you say, but you've had me laughing my ass off today with your posts. Great stuff. Thanks Frank.

[Skylorde]

This is a post for all you hard core party liners. Frank and I were discussing this in IM and it's become abundantly clear how both parties have a very vested interest in making sure they maintain the two party system.

I'll explain. When one party is the minority in the two party system, they still have far more power than the same scenario in a 3+ party system. Both parties, IMHO, work in concert to insure a third party does not come to power. They keep the ball rolling by galvanizing their base against the rival party. As Frank said, each party needs each other to provide dissent. This also serves to keep the party faithful distracted.

I know many of you are borderline psychotic in your support for Obama & nothing will sway you from that. Just think about it though. This power pendulum swings back & forth and back & forth and in 4-8 years max, you'll be exactly where the Republicans are today and nothing will have changed but the designation of the party in power.

[strangegrey]

Let me also add, for anyone that tries to swoop in and claim McCain 'tried' to stop this....you're as much a fucking liar as that fuck-stain mccain.

First.... Fannie May and Freddie Macwas lining McCain's pockets right along side Obamas.

Second...if McCain tried to stop this corruption, he clearly failed. Failure at leadership is *not* a good reason to elect someone to the executive.


Personally, the first is more an important statement than the second. It takes a true, reprehensible liar to march into a room and claim you tried to stop impropriety while having your pockets lined from those you're claiming to stop.

[Skylorde]

Second...if McCain tried to stop this corruption, he clearly failed. Failure at leadership is *not* a good reason to elect someone to the executive.

He did, it's called the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005

Personally, the first is more an important statement than the second. It takes a true, reprehensible liar to march into a room and claim you tried to stop impropriety while having your pockets lined from those you're claiming to stop.

Right on brother

[strangegrey]

I know many of you are borderline psychotic in your support for Obama & nothing will sway you from that. Just think about it though. This power pendulum swings back & forth and back & forth and in 4-8 years max, you'll be exactly where the Republicans are today and nothing will have changed but the designation of the party in power.

I'll also say the same thing about people that are borderline psychotic in their support for DisDain.

And Sky's right. the sad fact is that there are too many fucking people in this country that are downright lemmings, that refuse to vote outside the two party system...because they're scared to fuck that in not voting for their party, they're giving the other party votes....So you get lemmings on both sides that vote for their party, even if their party has a representative that is a sheer embarrassment.

Regardless, the public interests are not being served, because in the end, we get served mediocrity from both parties.

[Rick]

Let me also add, for anyone that tries to swoop in and claim McCain 'tried' to stop this....you're as much a fucking liar as that fuck-stain mccain.

First.... Fannie May and Freddie Macwas lining McCain's pockets right along side Obamas.

Second...if McCain tried to stop this corruption, he clearly failed. Failure at leadership is *not* a good reason to elect someone to the executive.


Personally, the first is more an important statement than the second. It takes a true, reprehensible liar to march into a room and claim you tried to stop impropriety while having your pockets lined from those you're claiming to stop.

I'd like to know what politician isn't getting their pockets lined by someone. Fuckers are all corrupt, right down to the city mayor.

[strangegrey]

Second...if McCain tried to stop this corruption, he clearly failed. Failure at leadership is *not* a good reason to elect someone to the executive.

He did, it's called the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005

Tell me mike, how's that working out....eh?

Unless ammended, it never made it to a vote:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-190

So really...this is just another glaring example of piss poor leadership by disdain....

[ProgRocker53]

I would LOVE to vote for a third-party candidate, BUT, in this day and age it won't make a single dent.

[strangegrey]

I'd like to know what politician isn't getting their pockets lined by someone. Fuckers are all corrupt, right down to the city mayor.

I agree, which is why I will *not* vote for an incumbent during this election....if the incumbent is not running, I will vote for the most qualified, least corrupt candidate.

That dog-faced cvnt Carolyn McCarthy is getting thrown out on her ass this year. So is my state senator douchebag Kemp Hannon.

[strangegrey]

I would LOVE to vote for a third-party candidate, BUT, in this day and age it won't make a single dent.

unfortunately, that's the attitude that has preserved this two party system which will ultimately reduce the quality of your life, over the course of your lifetime.

[Rick]

I would LOVE to vote for a third-party candidate, BUT, in this day and age it won't make a single dent.

It would declare your dissatisfaction with the candidates that are going to win, but ultimately, a waste of gas.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It would declare your dissatisfaction with the candidates that are going to win, but ultimately, a waste of gas.

If the media doesn't report it, what difference does it make?
The debate commission has closed the doors to third party candidates ever since Perot shook things up.
Without inclusion in the national debates (and other measures like instant run-off voting) it really is a waste of time.

[ProgRocker53]

It's disgusting how little coverage by the news channels, magazines, and papers give to the third-party candidates.

The lack of exposure to "other" parties is doing a disservice to the voters and ultimately to the nation.

I'd venture to say 70% of American voters don't even know Nader or Barr are on the ballot, let alone who they are...

[Skylorde]

Tell me mike, how's that working out....eh?

Dude, I'm right there with you in the disdain for Mexicain but your zeal to hang him high is clouding your judgment.

Chris Dodd was the ranking chair at the time and he prevented the bill from leaving the committee.

The facts speak for themselves.

Could McCain have done more? Should he have done more? Absolutely.

[Rick]

Mexicain

Fucking brilliant.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It's disgusting how little coverage by the news channels, magazines, and papers give to the third-party candidates.

The lack of exposure to "other" parties is doing a disservice to the voters and ultimately to the nation.

I'd venture to say 70% of American voters don't even know Nader or Barr are on the ballot, let alone who they are...

The lack of exposure to lesser candidates within the two parties was also a disgrace.
Even when Ron Paul or Mike Gravel kicked ass at the debates, the mainstream media would only replay what Hillary and Obama did, or what Romney and Rudy did.

And Barr fucked himself. His behavior caused Ron Paul to finally endorse Baldwin, fracturing whatever little solidarity the libertarians had.