The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[S2M]

Novocain....cause when he opens his mouth....my brain gets numb.

[ProgRocker53]

Before I fell prey to Obamamania in the beginning, I was all for Paul.. but then he just got flat-out ignored..

[treetopovskaya]

if you blink you might miss it...

http://www.people.com/people/article/0, ... _6,00.html

Okay...this would be funny, if it weren't true! Palin considers herself an "intellectual" and then says in the same article that she wants to name her next kid "Zamboni"


Sarah Palin has her next baby's name picked out
by Roger Sinasohn Oct 24th 2008 10:00AM


Remember the Sarah Palin baby name generator? I suspect Governor Palin has been using it as well. Recently, the potential second-in-command of these United States told People Magazine her plans for her next baby's name, should she have one. Given her background, her pride at being a "hockey mom," and the unusualness of her other kids' names, it may not be that big a surprise, however.

"I always wanted a son named Zamboni," said the vice-presidential hopeful. She also told the magazine that she considers herself an intellectual.

Now, I'm as big a fan of unusual names as anyone, but naming a kid after a large machine -- what does that say? I can see it down the road when he's in a pub looking to meet the girl of his dreams: "Hi! I'm Zamboni." "Oh, you drive a Zamboni?" "No, my name is Zamboni." "Goodbye." Palin also says she's not planning on having any more kids. Plus, if she's elected, I doubt she'll have time for another kid; perhaps this is a good reason to vote for her? What do you all think?


John from Boston

[Rick]

OY! I missed that. If anyone wants to vote in someone that could potentially end up as president that would name their kid Zamboni, please seek help.

In my best Buford T. Justice... "What the hell is the world coming to?"

[strangegrey]

Tell me mike, how's that working out....eh?

Dude, I'm right there with you in the disdain for Mexicain but your zeal to hang him high is clouding your judgment.

Chris Dodd was the ranking chair at the time and he prevented the bill from leaving the committee.

The facts speak for themselves.

Could McCain have done more? Should he have done more? Absolutely.

No they dont...the bill never left the committee. Mighty convenient, eh? The fact that McPain was getting contributions from The Mae and the Mac right alongside Obama doesn't cloud things at all....it clears them up.

[Enigma869]

I'd venture to say 70% of American voters don't even know Nader is on the ballot

Nader never not runs. Everyone knows who he is. I couldn't tell you the last time the guy wasn't on the ballot. I suspect he's been running for president for most of your life!


John from Boston

[strangegrey]

Right, but this year he wont make a difference....he was blamed for some of the reason why Gore didn't win in 2000, but that was the last time. He tends to draw more liberal voters than anything else, so in scenarios where the liberal/democrat vote will win out, nader is a non-issue.

However, I guarantee that if McPain actually eeks out a win by some out of this world reason...Nader will get hanged drawn and quartered by the left...

[Skylorde]

Thank you Joe the Plumber for unmasking this socialist/marxist twit for what he really is.

Wake up America, if Prog can see it why can't you?

Many of us see it loud and clear. So we should vote for a moderate socialist (McCain) rather than a Marxist?

No thanks

[bluejeangirl76]

However, I guarantee that if McPain actually eeks out a win by some out of this world reason...Nader will get hanged drawn and quartered by the left...

You aren't kidding.
I still can't believe he didn't get lynched in January 2001.
(I would have helped! )

[conversationpc]

The lack of exposure to lesser candidates within the two parties was also a disgrace.
Even when Ron Paul or Mike Gravel kicked ass at the debates, the mainstream media would only replay what Hillary and Obama did, or what Romney and Rudy did.

I can't speak of Gravel but Ron Paul definitely cleaned clock at those debates and NO ONE knew about it.

[strangegrey]

For those who doubted me when I told you the market meltdown was an Obama Panic, here's the proof. The big boys are taking their money and going home, they do not want their wealth redistributed.

You clearly have zero understanding of financial markets to come in here with a straight face and say the current state of the markets is due to fear of an obama presidency...

That's like claiming massive traffic congestion in florida in advance of a category 5 hurriane making landfall in Miami is really about DIsney World raising admission prices....

[conversationpc]

For those who doubted me when I told you the market meltdown was an Obama Panic, here's the proof. The big boys are taking their money and going home, they do not want their wealth redistributed.

You clearly have zero understanding of financial markets to come in here with a straight face and say the current state of the markets is due to fear of an obama presidency...

That's like claiming massive traffic congestion in florida in advance of a category 5 hurriane making landfall in Miami is really about DIsney World raising admission prices....

You're right...I do think investors, in general, are concerned about an Obama presidency but the market meltdown has little to do with that in comparison.

[S2M]

[The_Noble_Cause]

2001 OBAMA: TRAGEDY THAT 'REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH' NOT PURSUED BY SUPREME COURT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

Beck's been playing this all morning.
Frankly, I thought Obama was talking about reparations.
Either way, throughout most of this interview, Obama doesn't sound like he is advocating radical policy, he approaches it with the pedantic matter-of-fact drone of, err, well, a law professor!
Kinda like that clip of him wanting to slash military budget pork - just because you say it's a controversial smoking gun, doesn't necessarily make it so.

Gotta love how a woman who can't name a single supreme court case has become a a rising Conservative folk hero, while a Constiutional law professor is branded an enemy of the state.

[Barb]

China Expert Hayward Warns Against Obama's 'Socialist' Plan For America (VIDEO)
Bonnie King Salem-News.com
An interview with Al Hayward, 25-year China expert, who says his opinions about Obama won't be popular but promises of less work - more money have failed before.


A U.S. trade expert with 25 years of experience working with China and other Communist nations, says Capitalism is taking over in the east, and an Obama Presidency would signal a shift from traditional U.S. policies to a Socialist agenda.

(PORTLAND, Ore.) - Al Hayward, a 25-year Chinese trade expert, says “you can drown by tipping the canoe too far in either direction”, and he is worried that what he calls Barack Obama’s “socialistic promises” are tipping this country too far toward communism.

“What bothers me very much is the fact that Obama’s campaign is based on ‘do less, work less, get more’, and the reality of this is it doesn’t work that way,” Hayward said.

Al Hayward has lived, worked, and done business in mainland China and other communist countries for decades, and he is currently working on a 20 billion dollar “City of Tomorrow” project near Macau.

This weekend as he and the woman he married nearly 20 years ago, Wang Hui, strolled through the streets of Portland’s China town, Al Hayward shared his views with us on the "wrong direction" he sees the U.S. moving in.

“I’ve lived under 15 presidents and voted for 8,” Hayward said. “During the great depression the slogan was, ‘An honest day’s pay for an honest day’s work’, I haven’t heard that in this country for 50 years. We’ve been given promises, ‘Elect me and you get more and do less,’ ‘Work less hours and get more pay’. It doesn’t work that way. If you want more, the way I was taught, the way we taught our children, you want more, work more.”

"China's great economy boom, as exhibited during the '08 Olympics and hundreds of billions in trade surpluses came about when she adopted American capitalist policies of, “work more-get more” and became a world industrial powerhouse."


"I fear that under Obama's plan, America is in great danger of becoming more Communist than Red China is today if in fact it hasn't already happened."
Wang Hui Hayward was born and raised in China. Now as an American citizen, she says she wishes more people would appreciate the opportunities the U.S. affords them.

Wang Hui said, “The biggest problem I see happening over here is a lot of people take advantage of this good life here. A lot of particularly young people that can work don’t want to work, so they use the system and get free this, free that, a lot of free things, and in China you definitely can not do that.”

Al Hayward says "share and share alike" isn't the answer. "It didn't work in Russia. It didn't work in Eastern Europe. It didn't work in Mainland China. And it won't work in America," Hayward said. "Communism rewards only those people in government, and forces the rest to share their pay with those that did less and too often nothing. 'They pretended to pay us, and we pretended to work. And we all suffered,' a man told me, who once lived under Communist control in Eastern Europe."

"Obama scares me. Too many it seems are buying his 'more money for less work for all' campaign. The same propaganda lies used by the Communists and Adolf Hitler to take over nations and control of their people."

Al Hayward has been around the world and back again. He found a metaphor for life in a chilling experience he had on Mt Everest, where he says he came to a crossroads and made the right choice.

“I had a film opportunity,” Hayward recalls, “and was doing a film on Mt Everest when I lost my climbing partner; and so, he got in trouble and I took over my backpack from the Sherpa guide, and then I came on back off of Mt Everest alone. Crossed one glacier without ropes, that was a little scary.”

“I came down to a fork in the trail, one of them led to China, and one led back to the American base camp. China owns probably half of Mt Everest. They call it Kuma lama (Zhūmùlǎngmǎ Fēng), and so I had a decision: either to go on to ‘communist China’ or come back to the American camp. And fortunately, I guessed right, and came back to the American camp.”

“But I see America in this coming election at the same crossroads. They’ve got to decide: do we continue to go down this slippery slope, more socialism, more welfare, less work, more pay, promises that can’t be kept? Or, do we buckle down and just work more and get more? That’s what will bring us back, that’s in essence why I’m here today and why I felt strongly that it was time to stand up and say something regardless of the personal consequences.”

The crossroads are being faced by each individual voter, and Al Hayward says he hopes to prevent Americans from taking a trail toward socialism, and what he calls, a road to revolution.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/octo ... 102408.php

[Barb]

Gotta love how a woman who can't name a single supreme court case has become a a rising Conservative folk hero, while a Constiutional law professor is branded an enemy of the state.

Senior Lecturer, NOT a professor.

[strangegrey]

I am speaking of the selloff in the stock markets, not the Fannie/Freddie bailout shit. 2 different animals. People are selling now so as to pay the Bush 15% Cap Gains rate. They do not like the idea of Obama doubling that tax if elected. Don't believe me, I don't care. I've seen it everyday for the last 3 months. People are selling off due to the fear of Barack the Wealth Spreader, that's a fact. Deny it all you want.

You're kidding right? Market experts that have forgotten more about stock trading than you have cut and paste into this forum (which seems to be about 10X as much as you actually know about the markets), have well thought-out and (this next one is actually extremely important, read slowly) VERIFIABLE explanations on what is going on in the market.

You want to discredit such verifiable accounts of market activity and attribute it solely to a so-called fear of an obama presidency? What are you smoking?

If you chose not to educate yourself on market inputs responsible for this crissis, you have no business commenting on it or worse, proposing your half-baked theories on it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The lack of exposure to lesser candidates within the two parties was also a disgrace.
Even when Ron Paul or Mike Gravel kicked ass at the debates, the mainstream media would only replay what Hillary and Obama did, or what Romney and Rudy did.

I can't speak of Gravel but Ron Paul definitely cleaned clock at those debates and NO ONE knew about it.

Many times Paul would get standing ovations from the debate crowds.
The media covered Paul up to a point, but when he started setting consecutive political fundraising records they pulled the spotlight out from under him.
Even Fox News started banning him him from debates until the Republican party intervened.

As for Gravel, he won every debate hands down. Easily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBcMUZAXMW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3gQfz8GC0o

[The_Noble_Cause]

Senior Lecturer, NOT a professor.

From the Chicago Law School itself...

"From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html

[Skylorde]

For those who doubted me when I told you the market meltdown was an Obama Panic, here's the proof. The big boys are taking their money and going home, they do not want their wealth redistributed.

Dolphins owner H. Wayne Huizenga said Sunday no date has been set for selling up to 45 percent more of the team to Stephen Ross, but the presidential election is among the issues weighing on his decision.

That's because a Barack Obama administration is expected to mean higher capital-gains taxes.

"He wants to double the capital gains tax, or almost double it," Huizenga said. "I'd rather give it to charity than to him."

Ross purchased 50 percent of the team and Dolphin Stadium for $550 million earlier this year with the intention he would eventually become majority owner.

"If you do it this year or you do it next year, the difference is humongous because of the taxes," Huizenga said.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/foot ... 2404.story

First and foremost, a capital gains tax increase right now is insanely stupid given the volatility of the stock market. Historically speaking, when capital gains taxes go up, the tax revenue from the stream goes down. If Obama is truly concerened about the health of the market and shoring up the massive losses in peoples 401 K, he should leave it the fuck along or even decrease the capital gains tax. There's nothing more portable than affluent people's money.

That being said, Obama has proposed a increase of 5%. The quote above is simply fear mongering.

[Barb]

Senior Lecturer, NOT a professor.

From the Chicago Law School itself...

"From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html

So once again, his great capability is the lecture.

[strangegrey]

The quote above is simply fear mongering.

Not only that, but it is absolutely assinine to consider the statements from someone like Huizenga....now there's a picture of fiscal health!

Consider three of Huizenga's major equity investments. First, Waste Management....a company that joined Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia and a handful of other accounting embarrassments/scandals in the early part of this decade. Next, Cockthruster. A company barely hanging by a thread...WIthin the past 2 years, 5 blockbuster locations within 3 miles radius of my house have closed. Finally, The florida Marlins...remember the historic firesale?

This guy is an example of fiscal responsibility?!!?!! Your *only* example to prove that the markets are collapsing because every investor is scared of big bad barrack?

Fact Finder's logic defies even basic stupidity....

[Skylorde]

More disgusting hypocricy from the left.

Halloween Palin Prop Sparks Controversy In West Hollywood

WEST HOLLYWOOD (CBS News) ― Sarah Palin is not considered to be a friend of the gay community, but the Republican vice presidential candidate seems to be looming over the West Hollywood Halloween Carnival.

First, a rumor got started that city officials were going to ban Sarah Palin drag queens at its upcoming costumed street party, which draws some 500,000 people annually.

The rumor turned out to be false, but tonight comes word that a mannequin has been outfitted to look like Palin -- with glasses, a beehive wig and a red business suit -- and is hanging from a noose outside a WeHo residence.

[The_Noble_Cause]

More disgusting hypocricy from the left.

Halloween Palin Prop Sparks Controversy In West Hollywood

WEST HOLLYWOOD (CBS News) ― Sarah Palin is not considered to be a friend of the gay community, but the Republican vice presidential candidate seems to be looming over the West Hollywood Halloween Carnival.

First, a rumor got started that city officials were going to ban Sarah Palin drag queens at its upcoming costumed street party, which draws some 500,000 people annually.

The rumor turned out to be false, but tonight comes word that a mannequin has been outfitted to look like Palin -- with glasses, a beehive wig and a red business suit -- and is hanging from a noose outside a WeHo residence.

C'mon, no sane member on either side of the fence supports that shit.

[RossValoryRocks]

More disgusting hypocricy from the left.

Halloween Palin Prop Sparks Controversy In West Hollywood

WEST HOLLYWOOD (CBS News) ― Sarah Palin is not considered to be a friend of the gay community, but the Republican vice presidential candidate seems to be looming over the West Hollywood Halloween Carnival.

First, a rumor got started that city officials were going to ban Sarah Palin drag queens at its upcoming costumed street party, which draws some 500,000 people annually.

The rumor turned out to be false, but tonight comes word that a mannequin has been outfitted to look like Palin -- with glasses, a beehive wig and a red business suit -- and is hanging from a noose outside a WeHo residence.

C'mon, no sane member on either side of the fence supports that shit.

I think the difference is that if the right did it, the left would be up in arms and saying how the whole right was to blame, while when a left leaning person does this it is the fault of just that person.

I am not commenting on you here TNC, just the establishment.

[S2M]

The problem IS everytime money changes hands (redistribution) the government gets a cut. THIS needs to be changed.

Nothing has changed since fuedal times. We are STILL tenant farmers. The only difference is the crops.

I've always wondered why families still pay education taxes even when their children are out of school. I've always thought that once your kids are out of school....your tax dollars should be rerouted towards something else, like healthcare, or some other service that YOU will benefit from. Then maybe when you get upwards in age....you won't have to decide if you are eating tonight....or taking your meds.

The state, and federal governments get enough.

[bluejeangirl76]

Well fuck me to tears

I'm so stealing that.

[Skylorde]

C'mon, no sane member on either side of the fence supports that shit.

I should probably wait to see how this plays out but I'm pretty sure it'll go largely unnoticed. RVR is correct, the hypocricy will be that this will get very little media attention. If the roles were reversed, we'd have the Left's equivelant of the crusades descending upon this guys house.

Edit for additional info

THIS GUY was suspended for wearing a noose to work on halloween

Hanged witch sparks allegations of hate crime

Hanging nooses illegal on halloween

Man wonders if hanging figure in neighbors yard is Obama

Secret Service investigates hanging ghost with Obama's name written on it

[Rhiannon]

Then maybe when you get upwards in age....you won't have to decide if you are eating tonight....or taking your meds.

No kidding... something has to be done about this. I remember as a girl being in impoverished mining towns in West Virginia on trips with my Dad to visit grocery stores he sold to, and seeing the old people buying saltines and bologna to live on. If they could even afford their meds and some cheap food, sometimes it meant not being able to pay the power bill and freezing (literally) to death in their homes during the winters.

[strangegrey]

The quote above is simply fear mongering.

Fear mongering my ass. Assuming he does raise cap gains to only 20% (he's proposed as high as 28%) that my friend is a 33% increase in taxes. Let me say again 33% INCREASE.

You want to sell your million dollars in stocks and pay $150,000 now, or wait and pay $200,000 under Obama? The big boys have said 15% now, they are not going to give up another $50,000 to the Gov.

Oh please. You're grasping at straws here. You're implying that movers and shakers of this market are selling at near-historic lows (which will result in *realized* losses) just because of the chance that Obama might win on november 4th? Please explain to us waiting with baited breath on your failed logic, why such a sell-off is happening in advance of Nov 4th, when such a bleak future is not yet carved in stone?

I would submit that the time for such a sell off would be when either revised tax plans have passed congress or on the eve of the sunsetting of bush tax breaks. Of course, this is all assuming that market investors all unilaterally agree with your highly educated view on market factors...

To suggest market agents are acting on FAR less certain indicators...while *not* reacting to issues like de-leveraging equity markets, depressed housing markets resulting in poor performance of financial instruments tied to such markets, poor accounting, planning and deployment of fair value instruments, etc.


Really...you actually believe the shit you type?