The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[RossValoryRocks]

You did.

The only way McCain wins this election is through massive voter disenfranchisement and intimidation in ten swing states. Not even your party can pull THAT off.

Well Obama is going to win...with MASSIVE voter fraud helping out...so it balances out...

MASSIVE voter fraud? care to expand on that?

Are you not reading what ACORN has done?

Don't give me the bullshit about "Mickey Mouse" either, for every Mickey Mouse registered there is a Jim Smith with the same SSN registered in 12 different places who has case 10 early votes in Ohio especially (they don't require ID, same here in PA, no ID required) and those votes are going to be counted.

The republicans don't want to disenfranchise anyone, but they do want to make sure every vote is LEGAL. How can you not agree with that?

Aren't we only finding out about this because ACORN adhered to federal law and turned EVERY registration in?
Being that it was ACORN who paid the canvassers to sign people up, aren't they the ones getting the short end of the stick here?

Come on TNC...you are jaded enough to realize what they have done...by "adhering" to Federal Law it actually makes it EASIER.

Don't fall apart on me know, use that superior intellect to take a non-partisan view here.

[Lula]

You did.

The only way McCain wins this election is through massive voter disenfranchisement and intimidation in ten swing states. Not even your party can pull THAT off.

Well Obama is going to win...with MASSIVE voter fraud helping out...so it balances out...

MASSIVE voter fraud? care to expand on that?

Are you not reading what ACORN has done?

Don't give me the bullshit about "Mickey Mouse" either, for every Mickey Mouse registered there is a Jim Smith with the same SSN registered in 12 different places who has case 10 early votes in Ohio especially (they don't require ID, same here in PA, no ID required) and those votes are going to be counted.

The republicans don't want to disenfranchise anyone, but they do want to make sure every vote is LEGAL. How can you not agree with that?

i absolutely agree with that. i just don't want to read claims without sources. i have read the various acorn stories and there are obviously questions about tactics. i don't like having local crack heads registering folks. i rarely sign petitions outside of the market cuz the folks seeking signatures are the same types that seek to register voters and this is for petitions benefiting both sides of the aisle. if acorn is flagging possible fraud and they are the ones bringing it to the attention of the sec of states, where is the fraud?

[RossValoryRocks]

You did.

The only way McCain wins this election is through massive voter disenfranchisement and intimidation in ten swing states. Not even your party can pull THAT off.

Well Obama is going to win...with MASSIVE voter fraud helping out...so it balances out...

MASSIVE voter fraud? care to expand on that?

Are you not reading what ACORN has done?

Don't give me the bullshit about "Mickey Mouse" either, for every Mickey Mouse registered there is a Jim Smith with the same SSN registered in 12 different places who has case 10 early votes in Ohio especially (they don't require ID, same here in PA, no ID required) and those votes are going to be counted.

The republicans don't want to disenfranchise anyone, but they do want to make sure every vote is LEGAL. How can you not agree with that?

i absolutely agree with that. i just don't want to read claims without sources. i have read the various acorn stories and there are obviously questions about tactics. i don't like having local crack heads registering folks. i rarely sign petitions outside of the market cuz the folks seeking signatures are the same types that seek to register voters and this is for petitions benefiting both sides of the aisle. if acorn is flagging possible fraud and they are the ones bringing it to the attention of the sec of states, where is the fraud?

Come on Lula...Obama is going to win, but at least take off the democrat tinted glasses and LOOK to see what they are doing.

Obama probably won't need the extra help, but for fucks sake...in many states voting is not monitored AT ALL in terms of the identity of WHO is actually voting (Ohio being one of them) which means for every voter registration that is flagged as false...5 to 10 make it through due to sheer numbers.

[Skylorde]

People are going to be prosecuted in Ohio, but the vote still counts...the one in Ohio and the one in whatever state is really home...and there are THOUSANDS of them.

okay stu i'll give you the opportunity to substantiate this claim with a source please.[/quote]

Actually, workers for both campaigns were registered in Ohio and under threat of being prosecuted, they voluntary pulled their registrations.

[7 Wishes]

Wait. I don't understand.

So Obama's going to "steal" the election.

But the polls are closer than the facts indicate they are, according to the Right Wing Machine.

Now, Obama is having millions of people register 10-100 times apiece; but of course, when they're polled on the telephone (how the poll numbers are assimilated to begin with) they can, of course, only give their opinion ONCE.

So by your logic, the massive Evil Army of Fraudulent Obama Voters is going to "steal" the election...which means he will get MORE votes than the polls indicate...but according to Lie Finder, the polls are "much closer" than they appear. How does that work? I'm confused.

And for every allegation against ACORN, an unaffiliated organization, there are RNC fingerprints all over the country in various schemata aimed at disenfranchising Democratic voters and preventing them from getting to the polls.

[Lula]

okay stu i'll give you the opportunity to substantiate this claim with a source please.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?a ... 4977473610

He was registered to vote 70 times, it didn't say how many time he actually voted.

This is the BIG one though...

http://palestra.net/blogs/read/17368[/quote]

come on, an article by ac w? who is ac w? his site has a mccain bumper sticker.... biased? and a college blog? no offense to these perhaps fledging journalists, but this is serious and i need more to buy into these claims. i'm not saying msnbc olberman, but cnn is middle ground

[RossValoryRocks]

Wait. I don't understand.

So Obama's going to "steal" the election.

But the polls are closer than the facts indicate they are, according to the Right Wing Machine.

Now, Obama is having millions of people register 10-100 times apiece; but of course, when they're polled on the telephone (how the poll numbers are assimilated to begin with) they can, of course, only give their opinion ONCE.

So by your logic, the massive Evil Army of Fraudulent Obama Voters is going to "steal" the election...which means he will get MORE votes than the polls indicate...but according to Lie Finder, the polls are "much closer" than they appear. How does that work? I'm confused.

And for every allegation against ACORN, an unaffiliated organization, there are RNC fingerprints all over the country in various schemata aimed at disenfranchising Democratic voters and preventing them from getting to the polls.

Read what I said to Lula...I don't think Obama will need the help...it is still voter fraud....and those who have done so should be prosecuted....

[RossValoryRocks]

okay stu i'll give you the opportunity to substantiate this claim with a source please.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?a ... 4977473610

He was registered to vote 70 times, it didn't say how many time he actually voted.

This is the BIG one though...

http://palestra.net/blogs/read/17368

come on, an article by ac w? who is ac w? his site has a mccain bumper sticker.... biased? and a college blog? no offense to these perhaps fledging journalists, but this is serious and i need more to buy into these claims. i'm not saying msnbc olberman, but cnn is middle ground [/quote]

I don't care what you think of the "fledgling journalists" Lula...the facts are the facts...it doesn't matter WHO found them. Just because it is to the benefit of your chosen candidate you ignore it. You aren't being intellectually honest, and you damn well know it.

[Lula]

so kind of like what happened in ohio in 2004? fraud in bush's favor?

fraud is fraud and those committing it need to be held accountable. i don't want obama to win if it is based on fraud. i much rather prefer a real honest democracy even if the outcome is not my pick. this is shit. we are already seeing a potential win tainted with claims of fraud. complete shit, give the damn win to mccain.

[Skylorde]

A man in Columbus, Ohio admitted to having been registered by ACORN and had voted for Obama 70-odd times.

prey tell, how does one vote 70 times? story link, please.

Actually, it's not that difficult but I think you'd be hard pressed to vote 70 times with the same name.

39 states require ID to vote, a majority of the rest require ID only when you vote the first time.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/28/ ... index.html

One of the most overlooked topics on voter fraud is the registration of dead people.

4000 deceased people were found to have voted

Granted, that was Texas and a ID is required to vote each election, but what about states that don't? How difficult would it be to rifle through the death index and harvest voters? If one person harvested 100 names, unlikely to impact an election. What if 100 people harvested 100 names each? 1000? If one person used absentee ballots, they could EASILY send in 1000 or more bogus ballots.

[RossValoryRocks]

so kind of like what happened on ohio in 2004? fraud in bush's favor?

fraud is fraud and those committing it need to be held accountable. i don't want obama to win if it is based on fraud. i much rather prefer a real honest democracy even if the outcome is not my pick. this is shit. we are already seeing a potential win tainted with claims of fraud. complete shit, give the damn win to mccain.

Please....Kerry had 2000 lawyers ready to go...if there was fraud it would have gone to the courts and you know it.

I agree that fraud it fraud and those people should be held accountable...on BOTH sides...but since 2000 all the left can say is "the republicans are stealing the election", which is bull shit. The whole Florida fiasco was looked into by several reputable colleges (not exactly bastions of conservative thought these days) and found if they had continued the counting using the method Gore et al. wanted Bush would have won by MORE votes than he did.

Every LEGAL vote should count. That has to be the standard, for BOTH sides.

[Lula]

seriously stu, i don't post any links to substantiate claims that aren't reputable sites and can be traced. blogs are free speech without facts cited by anyone who has the motivation. i wouldn't post a link to the huffington post to substantiate a claim tho i could post some doozies, clearly biased. my integrity and intellectual honesty are in tact, no worries there.

[Lula]

p.s.

i luv u

[RossValoryRocks]

seriously stu, i don't post any links to substantiate claims that aren't reputable sites and can be traced. blogs are free speech without facts cited by anyone who has the motivation. i wouldn't post a link to the huffington post to substantiate a claim tho i could post some doozies, clearly biased. my integrity and intellectual honesty are in tact, no worries there.

Do a google then...it is ALL over the place on the net...unfortunately they probably won't be from sources your "intellectual honesty" would view as being acceptable. MSNBC or CNN aren't going to TOUCH this stuff for the same reason who won't...they want Obama to win, but unlike you, MSNBC and CNN and the other don't give a damn how or how it will look, even if the extra votes aren't needed (and I don't think they will be)

[RossValoryRocks]

p.s.

i luv u

Ditto that!

You, Wyatt and that lug you reside with!

[The_Noble_Cause]

Please....Kerry had 2000 lawyers ready to go...if there was fraud it would have gone to the courts and you know it.

Bob Woodward chronicled in one of his books that Kerry was ready to pursue it when Carville sold him out and tipped off his wife, Mary Matlin, who then reported straight to her boss Cheney. Kerry has been known to admit in private that 2004 was stolen in Ohio.

[Lula]

seriously stu, i don't post any links to substantiate claims that aren't reputable sites and can be traced. blogs are free speech without facts cited by anyone who has the motivation. i wouldn't post a link to the huffington post to substantiate a claim tho i could post some doozies, clearly biased. my integrity and intellectual honesty are in tact, no worries there.

Do a google then...it is ALL over the place on the net...unfortunately they probably won't be from sources your "intellectual honesty" would view as being acceptable. MSNBC or CNN aren't going to TOUCH this stuff for the same reason who won't...they want Obama to win, but unlike you, MSNBC and CNN and the other don't give a damn how or how it will look, even if the extra votes aren't needed (and I don't think they will be)

well bend me over and call me snob!!

[treetopovskaya]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 13_pf.html

[7 Wishes]

You neo-cons do realize that McCain was a friend of Keating, right? And that Cindy and John and Cindy's father put $360 million into the fraudulent scheme...hmmmm.

Because minority and low-income voters tend to vote against Republicans, the neo-cons have a vested interest in tarnishing any registration efforts by raising the oft-debunked specter of voter fraud.

[Skylorde]

Woodward chronicled in one of his books that Kerry was ready to pursue it when Carville sold him out and tipped off his wife, Mary Matlin, who then reported straight to her boss Cheney. Kerry has been known to admit in private that 2004 was stolen in Ohio.

That really sounds fishy. Other than Woodward saying it happened, where's the proof? I really find it hard to believe Carville sold them out.

[Lula]

i love james carville. like joe biden, he just says it. how about biden and the marx question.... "is this a joke?"

[The_Noble_Cause]

Woodward chronicled in one of his books that Kerry was ready to pursue it when Carville sold him out and tipped off his wife, Mary Matlin, who then reported straight to her boss Cheney. Kerry has been known to admit in private that 2004 was stolen in Ohio.

That really sounds fishy. Other than Woodward saying it happened, where's the proof? I really find it hard to believe Carville sold them out.

It's from Woodward's 'State of Denial' book.

I don't find it that hard to believe.
His marriage with Matlin already calls his motives into question by some.
He has stated that his advice to the Kerry team was continually ignored.
More recently, both he and Begala attempted a party coup to replace Howard Dean with Harold Ford Jr. - openly bashing Dean and speaking out against his 50 state strategy, which Obama will likely now sail to victory on.

[Jana]

Lula, I thought the Barbara West interview was great in the way Biden handled her. Joe Biden was great. It reminded me of why I like him. Of course, I'm from Orlando, so I'm very familiar with her. She definitely gave a different interview between Biden and McCain, even just in tone. It was a joke, because she had no intelligent follow-through on some of his answers and went on. She's not very good (to me). She's a Republican and her husband was a media consultant here in town, who predominently worked with Republicans, but did work on a few Democrat issues. But she removed that from her bio b/c she said he's not doing that anymore. I didn't really care because Joe is seasoned and well informed and he can handle any interview. It was just comical to me how he handled her. Good for him. Of course, each side will see it their way, which is fine. I don't really care, because it's not important in the grand scheme of things. Just an interesting tidbit.

[7 Wishes]

Obama is now in the lead or tied in 8 key states, all of which Bush took in 2000 and 2004:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081029/ap_on_el_pr/ap_poll_battlegrounds

[RossValoryRocks]

Obama is now in the lead or tied in 8 key states, all of which Bush took in 2000 and 2004:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081029/ap_on_el_pr/ap_poll_battlegrounds

Bro...everyone knows Obama is going to win...relax...

It's the fact that there is a lot of fraud going on via ACORN and other Obama surrogates that is troubling.

Especially when he probably doesn't need it.

[conversationpc]

I wonder why Obama's promised tax cut to those making under $250,000 is all of a sudden rapidly decreasing?

Is Joe Biden the foot-in-mouth candidate - or is he the Obama campaign's designated teller of inconvenient truths?

First, the Democratic veep hopeful declared that America's enemies will generate "an international crisis, to test the mettle of" a President Obama.

Scary - but likely true.

And yesterday Biden let slip that he and Obama apparently have a sliding scale to determine who's "super-rich."

Obama, after all, has been promising a tax cut for the "middle class" - those making $200,000 a year or less.

Biden yesterday lowered that bar.

"What we're saying," he told a Pennsylvania TV interviewer, "is that [our] tax break doesn't need to go to people making . . . $1.4 million. It should go to [people] making under $150,000 a year."

Oops. That's a 25 percent downward redefinition of "middle class."

An Obama mouthpiece quickly dismissed the discrepancy as just another one of Joe the Senator's gaffes.

But consider: The campaign has a new TV commercial out declaring that families - not individuals - earning $200,000 or less would qualify for a tax cut. Two incomes - not one.

And, as most middle-class wage-earners know, that's a huge difference.

As Sen. John McCain said yesterday: "At this rate, it won't be long before Sen. Obama is right back to his vote that Americans making just $42,000 should get a tax increase."

We wouldn't be surprised - what with leading congressional Democrats like Rep. Barney Frank licking their chops at the chance to raise taxes.

"We'll have to raise taxes, ultimately," Frank declared over the weekend.

Don't say you weren't warned.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10292008/po ... 135862.htm

[strangegrey]

I wonder why Obama's promised tax cut to those making under $250,000 is all of a sudden rapidly decreasing?

well first you have to accept the premise that the so-called threshold for the "ultra rich" was always 250k. personally, I find the concept (fronted by the obama campaign) that people making 250k a year were among the "ultra rich" dreadfully laughable on a good day...and on a bad day, reprehensible. On Long Island, given the cost of living here, if you made around 250k, you are SQAURELY in the middle class. Sure...you're at the top end of that. But trust me....making 250k doesn't leave much room at all, for taking a tax hit in the ass.

This threshold, is really an arbitrary thing, however. The main idea of big-government, is to expand the base of the entitlement system. If you drive enough people *out* of self-sufficiency and force them into economic conditions that leave them no choice but to take advantage of government entitlements....big-government will always have a mandate. That's what's going on here...

The people in the upper middle class are under fire by liberals...and they have been for decades. The only way liberals can stake a claim to be champions of the 'middle class' is if they acurately define the middle class in terms that are real and just. Right now, that's not the case. Upper Middle classers (and obviously, upper classers) are self sufficient people. They don't take advantage of the entitlement system (and in most cases, aren't given an opportunity to)....The only way big-government gets these people to get into this system, is if they are tax-driven into a lower bracket.


Over the next few years, cost of living expenses are going to retreat. They're already doing so. Oil's falling. Housing is going to continue to deflate to pre-bubble figures....

...by lowering the tax threshold for the so-called upper class, this is creating a net to catch people who will fall into self-sufficiency when cost of living retreats to allow such a thing. Until then, these people will suffer....but they'll suck it up, because the great messiah told them that it's for the good of the country.

[Skylorde]

Bro...everyone knows Obama is going to win...relax...

It's the fact that there is a lot of fraud going on via ACORN and other Obama surrogates that is troubling.

Especially when he probably doesn't need it.

Looking at the recent polls, I wouldn't be so quick to hand victory over to Obama. I don't believe the Bradley effect is being taken very seriously and McTard will benefit from that. Just as there are many voters who will vote for Obama because he's black, I suspect there are a equal number or more that will not vote for him because he's black, like it or not.

I was certain Obama was going to win. I'm not so sure now.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Woodward chronicled in one of his books that Kerry was ready to pursue it when Carville sold him out and tipped off his wife, Mary Matlin, who then reported straight to her boss Cheney. Kerry has been known to admit in private that 2004 was stolen in Ohio.

That really sounds fishy. Other than Woodward saying it happened, where's the proof? I really find it hard to believe Carville sold them out.

OHIO
Statewide totals from 04 -
George W. Bush Richard Cheney Republican 2,859,768 50.81% 20
John Kerry John Edwards Democratic 2,741,167 48.71% 0
Michael Badnarik Richard Campagna Non-Partisan 14,676 0.26%


Thats a margin of over 2% of votes- well over 100,000 votes. Its very hard to create voter fraud that denies , creates or loses 2 percent of the votes. votes especially when that fraud effort is concentrated on the few counties Kerry won . map available on http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/

You can perhaps steal upto 10,000 votes in a state but youre not likely to manage 100,000 votes. Thats why people told Kerry let it go.

[RossValoryRocks]

Bro...everyone knows Obama is going to win...relax...

It's the fact that there is a lot of fraud going on via ACORN and other Obama surrogates that is troubling.

Especially when he probably doesn't need it.

Looking at the recent polls, I wouldn't be so quick to hand victory over to Obama. I don't believe the Bradley effect is being taken very seriously and McTard will benefit from that. Just as there are many voters who will vote for Obama because he's black, I suspect there are a equal number or more that will not vote for him because he's black, like it or not.

I was certain Obama was going to win. I'm not so sure now.

Mike,
I am absolutely sure. If nothing else ACORN will deliver it for him, but as I have said I don't think he will need it.

It's going to be a LONG, LONG election night but in the end, Senator Obama will be the President Elect.