Barak: President of 59 States!

[RedWingFan]

and I'm guessing the majority of Americans would love to see the Wine bill introduced...drink around a camp fire and get pissed every day of the week, fuck the economy.

[Saint John]

McCain just said last night that he'd hire Justices along the lines of Alito and Roberts. Sealed my vote for him.

If McCain said he'd "hire" Justices. Then he's stupider than I gave him credit for.
He often say's he'll "appoint" Supreme Court Justices. Even that's incorrect. All he can do is "nominate" them. And with the probable #'s democrats will have in Congress, President McCain's "hires" won't mean much SJ.

You know what I meant...fuckface.

[styxman]

and I'm guessing the majority of Americans would love to see the Wine bill introduced...drink around a camp fire and get pissed every day of the week, fuck the economy.

Red, Red Wine, who cares if obama is black and Hilary stinks of Tuna (five days old)...Bill will lick it clean and spray it white.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Vote McCain and your Voting for Bush all over again. He is in the same camp, on the same side and agrees with the Bush Admin on too many things. Yes, and he is 72 !! Someone called that experience. Just because your older doesnt mean you are better. Look where Bush's "experience" got us.. Experience or lack of can be good or bad.. The president has plenty of people to lean on if he cant make up his mind.

You think that fucking moron in the whitehouse now can make up his own mind ? He isnt even smart enough to get us in the mess we are in. IT took a whole building full of idiots.. They all need to be put out to pasture. Old politics out the door. RE-invent the damn wheel !

Obama all the way for me. Why ? Because he is a newb. We need a new approach and new ideas and if we keep voting for the guys the drink together at the same country club we will end up with the same shit, different face.... I wont vote for Hillary because she seems very fake to me.

I am known for being able to read body language very well because I have studied (out of curiosity and poker playing) on how to tell when people are lying and how to read body language. I am very. very good at it. They ALWAYS do certain things. People are so unaware of how they come off to the trained eye..


Long read but it will give you some clues..

http://discovermagazine.com/2005/jan/ph ... :int=1&-C=

Hillary is a lier, she gives it away all the time if you know what to watch for.. Dont know about Mccain because I dont even care what he has to say after the Bush endorsement...

Obama is confident and if he is fibbing about anything he believes it himself !! I cant not see any of the typical motions of hands and eye movement that most people do subconciously when they lie... In the end I think they all tell us what they think we want to hear. We just need someone who cares about the little guy and not special interest groups. All these politicians from the old school know the same people, the same lobbyist and use the same methods for the most part. Where is the innovation in ideas ? You will get none from those cats... They think they know it all already...

If this country doesnt get its shit together im out..... Canada sounds good to me.

[lights1961]

Vote McCain and your Voting for Bush all over again. He is in the same camp, on the same side and agrees with the Bush Admin on too many things. Yes, and he is 72 !! Someone called that experience. Just because your older doesnt mean you are better. Look where Bush's "experience" got us.. Experience or lack of can be good or bad.. The president has plenty of people to lean on if he cant make up his mind.

You think that fucking moron in the whitehouse now can make up his own mind ? He isnt even smart enough to get us in the mess we are in. IT took a whole building full of idiots.. They all need to be put out to pasture. Old politics out the door. RE-invent the damn wheel !

Obama all the way for me. Why ? Because he is a newb. We need a new approach and new ideas and if we keep voting for the guys the drink together at the same country club we will end up with the same shit, different face.... I wont vote for Hillary because she seems very fake to me.

I am known for being able to read body language very well because I have studied (out of curiosity and poker playing) on how to tell when people are lying and how to read body language. I am very. very good at it. They ALWAYS do certain things. People are so unaware of how they come off to the trained eye..


Long read but it will give you some clues..

http://discovermagazine.com/2005/jan/ph ... :int=1&-C=

Hillary is a lier, she gives it away all the time if you know what to watch for.. Dont know about Mccain because I dont even care what he has to say after the Bush endorsement...

Obama is confident and if he is fibbing about anything he believes it himself !! I cant not see any of the typical motions of hands and eye movement that most people do subconciously when they lie... In the end I think they all tell us what they think we want to hear. We just need someone who cares about the little guy and not special interest groups. All these politicians from the old school know the same people, the same lobbyist and use the same methods for the most part. Where is the innovation in ideas ? You will get none from those cats... They think they know it all already...

If this country doesnt get its shit together im out..... Canada sounds good to me.

hot off the presses... OBAMA is not a newb... think TED KENNEDY
NAncy P or Harry Ried.. thats what you will be getting.. he is not a new approach.. more socialism as in Dukakis, Kerry and any other modern day liberal politician, you think its dangerous now... holy crap...it will be
a disaster X10 with OBAMA.

[RedWingFan]

McCain just said last night that he'd hire Justices along the lines of Alito and Roberts. Sealed my vote for him.

If McCain said he'd "hire" Justices. Then he's stupider than I gave him credit for.
He often say's he'll "appoint" Supreme Court Justices. Even that's incorrect. All he can do is "nominate" them. And with the probable #'s democrats will have in Congress, President McCain's "hires" won't mean much SJ.

You know what I meant...fuckface.

I know what you meant. But the fact is McCain's trying to get votes from conservatives promising to "appoint" conservative Justices. The only way I vote for him is if he gets a true conservative as VP, then hope people continually jump from behind objects and yell, "BOO" at McCain.

[texafana]

Barack Obama wants to be president of these 59 United States

L.A. Times ^ | May 09, 2008 | Andrew Malcolm

Friday, May 09, 2008 6:06:09 PM

Quote:

"It is wonderful to be back in Oregon," Obama said. "Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit, but my staff would not justify it."

Video..



http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/05/09/obama-wants-to-be-president-of-57-states/

This guys scares me more and more when I research him. So many "empty holes" in this guy's plans, speeches, etc. I'm glad Mr and Mrs. Clinton are out, but YourBama just doesn't have a chance against Mccain.

[strangegrey]

Vote McCain and your Voting for Bush all over again.

Yep...that's the way I see it. McCain would be as much a disaster to this economy as Bush has been over the past 8 years. In fact, McCain has freely admitted he knows bumpkis about the economy. Great! More Dick Cheney types in the back ground with zero accountability handing our fiscal and monetary policy!

If $4 gallons of gas dont scare the shit out of people, I heartily recommend that they vote for McCain. within 2 years of McCain being in office, he will probably allow the price of gas to raise to 6 dollars.

However, I question Obama being the answer....and have openly for a while. He has not been dragged through the mud like the other candidates...and I feel that a presidential candidate needs to be, for the good of the country.

Carrying a candidate to the nomination....is not good. Either in ensures a win by the opposition...or it ensures disaster in office.

After looking back over history, it's clear to me that this is what happened to Bush. He was carried through the republican nomination process...and as a result, we've had a moron in office for 8 years. not good.


I actually feel Hilary would be the best choice right now, because she's had everything but the kitchen sink thrown at her, and she still shows campaign promise....

[strangegrey]

I know what you meant. But the fact is McCain's trying to get votes from conservatives promising to "appoint" conservative Justices. The only way I vote for him is if he gets a true conservative as VP, then hope people continually jump from behind objects and yell, "BOO" at McCain.

Hoping for a cardiac arrest, eh? Hell, That might happen the minute he has to look over the budget for the first time!

However, I agree. What McCain is doing now that he's sealed up the nomination, is pandering to the stronger/far right. He needs them to win this election in November. He knows it. Once he gets past Obama or Hilary, such campaign promises will simply float away. He will likely nominate extremely legislative judicials throughout his entire presidency. You can bank on it.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Great, 4 more years of decline coming right up.... I think we are fucked no matter who wins. The question is how fucked are we ?

[bluejeangirl76]

The question is how fucked are we ?

New post of the day.

[Lula]

Vote McCain and your Voting for Bush all over again.

Yep...that's the way I see it. McCain would be as much a disaster to this economy as Bush has been over the past 8 years. In fact, McCain has freely admitted he knows bumpkis about the economy. Great! More Dick Cheney types in the back ground with zero accountability handing our fiscal and monetary policy!

quote]

mccain has said he will keep the bush economy plan in place, i guess a recession is no big deal to a man married to a very wealthy woman.

[Saint John]

This economy is doing just fine. Those that want to work and do well are doing just that.

[Rhiannon]

The question is how fucked are we ?

New post of the day.

The real question is, how fucked will we let ourselves become.

...I like my approach to politics. I'll leave it alone if it leaves me alone. I'm content just living my life. IMO, we have three tards to choose from this fall, a bedwetter, a bitch, and a snot-ass. Hmph. Almost 300 million people in the country and that is the best we can come up with?

[lights1961]

The question is how fucked are we ?

New post of the day.

The real question is, how fucked will we let ourselves become.

...I like my approach to politics. I'll leave it alone if it leaves me alone. I'm content just living my life. IMO, we have three tards to choose from this fall, a bedwetter, a bitch, and a snot-ass. Hmph. Almost 300 million people in the country and that is the best we can come up with?

i was thinking of the exact same thing... millions of guys/gals to choose from and we get three lousy senators. Only one has the country in mind...the other two well its about the ego.

R

[strangegrey]

This economy is doing just fine. Those that want to work and do well are doing just that.

I tend to disagree with you there, SJ. People are far more leveraged now, far more then they were 10 years ago. As a country, we are dreadfully leveraged internationally...to the point, where it scares the shit out of me. If it weren't for the internationalization of our capital markets, we would have been in a bona-fide depression by now...and frankly, neither Geroge HW bush, Bill Clinton or George W Bush has done a damn thing to prevent this from happening.

I honestly believe we cant, as a country, sustain this nasty buble-burst progression/cycle that we've been going through. We originally had the tech bubble/burst, which lead to a recession in 2000-2001, which was artificially dispelled by very irresponsible lowering of interest rates, which resulted in the real estate bubble/burst. We're currently heading into an energy crisis and the very second OPEC demands that we pay for our oil in Euros instead of Dollars (something they've recently been threatening) we will be in an instant depression...because two things will happen as a result. The price of oil will nearly double and the value of the dollar will plumet.

We're in perilous times right now...that's for certain. I do not believe for one instant that a continuance of George W. Bush's monetary and fiscal policies will do anything other than thrust us into instant doom.

Unfortunately, I dont see anything in Obama's game plan that says anything other than "we can change if we want to work hard enough!" ...problem is, change to what? Change, for the sake of change might do more harm than good.

[Saint John]

This economy is doing just fine. Those that want to work and do well are doing just that.

I tend to disagree with you there, SJ. People are far more leveraged now, far more then they were 10 years ago. As a country, we are dreadfully leveraged internationally...to the point, where it scares the shit out of me. If it weren't for the internationalization of our capital markets, we would have been in a bona-fide depression by now...and frankly, neither Geroge HW bush, Bill Clinton or George W Bush has done a damn thing to prevent this from happening.

I honestly believe we cant, as a country, sustain this nasty buble-burst progression/cycle that we've been going through. We originally had the tech bubble/burst, which lead to a recession in 2000-2001, which was artificially dispelled by very irresponsible lowering of interest rates, which resulted in the real estate bubble/burst. We're currently heading into an energy crisis and the very second OPEC demands that we pay for our oil in Euros instead of Dollars (something they've recently been threatening) we will be in an instant depression...because two things will happen as a result. The price of oil will nearly double and the value of the dollar will plumet.

We're in perilous times right now...that's for certain. I do not believe for one instant that a continuance of George W. Bush's monetary and fiscal policies will do anything other than thrust us into instant doom.

Unfortunately, I dont see anything in Obama's game plan that says anything other than "we can change if we want to work hard enough!" ...problem is, change to what? Change, for the sake of change might do more harm than good.

You bring up some great points, Frank. However, I think we've had a paradigm shift as a nation. The resources to succeed are still there, but the mindset isn't. The same people I see constantly bitching about money problems are the same people that have to have new cars, $100 gym shoes, the latest cell phone and carry a constant credit card balance...and this is during "good times!!!" Then things tighten up as they have now and at the end of the Clinton administration, and they can't imagine why they're financially stressed. Yes, some of the policies of the last few administrations have been poor, but the mindset that it's the government's fault has to stop before we can move ahead. In fact, those that tend not to blame the government and "roll up their sleaves" during tough times are usually the ones that ride the storms out the best. I'm simply tired of the outstretched arms of everyone relying on the government. Personally, if I had to think of the single greatest blunder Bush has made during his presidency it would be this ridiculously assanine rebate check we just got. Talk about perpetuating government dependence. And the worst part about it is that people felt this was something that was owed to them. I'm spending it at the blackjack table in Vegas.

[Escape Artist]

I think he's a bit tired.

Not to mention an idiot.

[Barb]

I think he's a bit tired.

Not to mention an idiot.

I was trying to be kind.

[Saint John]

I think he's a bit tired.

Not to mention an idiot.

I was trying to be kind.

Don't let it happen again.

[strangegrey]

This economy is doing just fine. Those that want to work and do well are doing just that.

I tend to disagree with you there, SJ. People are far more leveraged now, far more then they were 10 years ago. As a country, we are dreadfully leveraged internationally...to the point, where it scares the shit out of me. If it weren't for the internationalization of our capital markets, we would have been in a bona-fide depression by now...and frankly, neither Geroge HW bush, Bill Clinton or George W Bush has done a damn thing to prevent this from happening.

I honestly believe we cant, as a country, sustain this nasty buble-burst progression/cycle that we've been going through. We originally had the tech bubble/burst, which lead to a recession in 2000-2001, which was artificially dispelled by very irresponsible lowering of interest rates, which resulted in the real estate bubble/burst. We're currently heading into an energy crisis and the very second OPEC demands that we pay for our oil in Euros instead of Dollars (something they've recently been threatening) we will be in an instant depression...because two things will happen as a result. The price of oil will nearly double and the value of the dollar will plumet.

We're in perilous times right now...that's for certain. I do not believe for one instant that a continuance of George W. Bush's monetary and fiscal policies will do anything other than thrust us into instant doom.

Unfortunately, I dont see anything in Obama's game plan that says anything other than "we can change if we want to work hard enough!" ...problem is, change to what? Change, for the sake of change might do more harm than good.

You bring up some great points, Frank. However, I think we've had a paradigm shift as a nation. The resources to succeed are still there, but the mindset isn't. The same people I see constantly bitching about money problems are the same people that have to have new cars, $100 gym shoes, the latest cell phone and carry a constant credit card balance...and this is during "good times!!!" Then things tighten up as they have now and at the end of the Clinton administration, and they can't imagine why they're financially stressed. Yes, some of the policies of the last few administrations have been poor, but the mindset that it's the government's fault has to stop before we can move ahead. In fact, those that tend not to blame the government and "roll up their sleaves" during tough times are usually the ones that ride the storms out the best. I'm simply tired of the outstretched arms of everyone relying on the government. Personally, if I had to think of the single greatest blunder Bush has made during his presidency it would be this ridiculously assanine rebate check we just got. Talk about perpetuating government dependence. And the worst part about it is that people felt this was something that was owed to them. I'm spending it at the blackjack table in Vegas.

Good post SJ.

First off, Lula, there is no recession. There has not been a recession, and probably will not be a recession. A recession is when we have 2 quarters ( 6 months for you libs) of NEGATIVE GROWTH. We have had positive growth even throughout all this talk you've heard on the news for 6 months now about this SUPPOSED recession. What we've seen so far has been a slowdown in growth for companies. They can't sustain 4 to 6 percent growth year after year forever and to blame a President for that is just proof of some peoples ignorance of how things work.

One can easily argue that the Bush tax cuts were a big boon to the growth over the last 7 years. Now with the uncertainty of a new POTUS the markets get jittery. (as well they should) The markets HATE uncertainty and the markets love certainty. The cycle we are in now and will remain in until November is uncertain. This is what we are seeing. The markets are looking to see if the Bush tax cuts are going to stand or are going to get sunset in 2011. McCain says he'll keep them, Obama says no. The ramifications from killing the Estate tax alone are staggering. People should consider voting for McCain just on the Estate Tax alone.

All good points FF. However, I will submit, that identification of a 'recession' by its textbook definition, demands that the term recession be used as a trailing indicator, not a leading one. While we aren't in a textbook 'recession' right now, we're damn close. If I recall, Q1 of 2008 experienced 0.6% postitive growth of the GDP. I guarantee you, if Bush hadn't declared the rebate check, that number would have been negative by quite a bit. So, having said that, what surprise does bush have in store to stem off concerns for Q2? He can't hide from this forever...

...Also, was issuing a rebate/stimulus check a smart thing, given the amount of debt this nation has incurred over the past 7 years? I for one, don't think so....becuase it is only creating additional factors that may lead the next president and congress to let the tax cuts sunset after 2010. Along with those tax cuts, we will see the gradual estate tax reduction sunset as well. Not cool.

Sometimes, you have to let recessions play out. The economy is a cyclical thing. By playing games with monetary (and sometimes fiscal) policy, you risk causing bigger problems in the future. I've already stated that Bush's drastic games (at the hands of Greenspan/Chernake) with lowering of interest rates, to yank us out of a recession that should have played out in 2000-2001, we were slapped with a housing crisis that we are still reeling from. By Bush giving people money in a desperate attempt to stave off an inevitable recession....he is virtually gauranteeing that whomever is in office in 2010, will not have the political ability to prevent taxes cuts from sunsetting after 2010.

This rebate, to me, smells of Bush in his lameduck year, trying to leave office in a good economy. Nothing else, nothing more...


ALso, SJ. You are right...there seems to be an increased reliance by people to look to hand outs by the gov to pull themselves out of trouble....while the *reasons* for people being more leveraged are irresponsible....I am more refering to the fact that banks and corporations have turned to foreign investment instead of domestic investment. The value of the dollar has obviously encouraged that...however, the more we are leveraged across borders, the more dangerous that is for us as a nation.

[conversationpc]

All good points FF. However, I will submit, that identification of a 'recession' by its textbook definition, demands that the term recession be used as a trailing indicator, not a leading one. While we aren't in a textbook 'recession' right now, we're damn close. If I recall, Q1 of 2008 experienced 0.6% postitive growth of the GDP. I guarantee you, if Bush hadn't declared the rebate check, that number would have been negative by quite a bit. So, having said that, what surprise does bush have in store to stem off concerns for Q2? He can't hide from this forever...

I differ from many conservatives in that I believe we definitely ARE in a recession or at least on the very edge of one. The government has been cooking the books, so to speak, for the last 30+ years (including the Clinton admininstration, you liberals...). The national debt is likely much higher than the 8-9 trillion dollar figure that is often quoted and the government continues to devalue the dollar by printing too much new currency and continually lowering interest rates. Also, the methods of calculating inflation have mysteriously been altered over the last few years, making it look like inflation is much lower than it actually is, which is probably at almost Carter-like levels.

...Also, was issuing a rebate/stimulus check a smart thing, given the amount of debt this nation has incurred over the past 7 years? I for one, don't think so....

No. The rebates are a bad idea, especially since we apparently borrowed the money to give in the first place.

Sometimes, you have to let recessions play out. The economy is a cyclical thing. By playing games with monetary (and sometimes fiscal) policy, you risk causing bigger problems in the future. I've already stated that Bush's drastic games (at the hands of Greenspan/Chernake) with lowering of interest rates, to yank us out of a recession that should have played out in 2000-2001, we were slapped with a housing crisis that we are still reeling from. By Bush giving people money in a desperate attempt to stave off an inevitable recession....he is virtually gauranteeing that whomever is in office in 2010, will not have the political ability to prevent taxes cuts from sunsetting after 2010.

I couldn't agree more.

[Voyager]

All of the polls show that the higher-educated and more successful voters are voting overwhelmingly for Obama, and the less-educated and lower income voters are voting for Clinton.

I'm just reporting what the polls are saying, so don't blame me if this pisses you off.

Show me those demographic breakdowns. And higher-educated doesn't make one more successful...THAT...is for damn sure!

Demographics split Hillary, Obama vote
Exit polls from Super Tuesday contests show that the Democratic Party's two remaining presidential candidates split votes among class, age, sex and race.

"Barack Obama continued to do well among voters who are younger, better-educated and wealthier; he solidified his support among African-Americans; and he ran strongly among men, including white men," said William A. Galston, a senior fellow for governance studies at the Brookings Institution.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbc ... 35957/1002

[conversationpc]

"Barack Obama continued to do well among voters who are younger, better-educated morons and wealthier; he solidified his support among African-Americans; and he ran strongly among men, including white men," said William A. Galston, a senior fellow for governance studies at the Brookings Institution.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbc ... 35957/1002[/quote]

Fixed...

[Voyager]

"Barack Obama continued to do well among voters who are younger, better-educated morons and wealthier; he solidified his support among African-Americans; and he ran strongly among men, including white men," said William A. Galston, a senior fellow for governance studies at the Brookings Institution.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbc ... 35957/1002

Fixed...

The truth is hard to accept, I know - but you can't change it.

[Eric]

1) We're not in a recession.

2) I have to agree that the talk of being in a recession comes from the media trying to project doom and gloom stemming from high gas prices and people who bought houses they couldn't afford.

3) Bush has done well with averting this recession and making the one he inherited in '01 short. But I do agree with Frank that the economy is cyclical and maybe is best left alone. But W is fucked no matter what he does, and has been since day one. He inherited a mess waiting to happen with stocks and terrorism....

For whomever says they are prepared to leave this country. FUCK YOU!

[strangegrey]

I differ from many conservatives in that I believe we definitely ARE in a recession or at least on the very edge of one. The government has been cooking the books, so to speak, for the last 30+ years (including the Clinton admininstration, you liberals...). The national debt is likely much higher than the 8-9 trillion dollar figure that is often quoted and the government continues to devalue the dollar by printing too much new currency and continually lowering interest rates. Also, the methods of calculating inflation have mysteriously been altered over the last few years, making it look like inflation is much lower than it actually is, which is probably at almost Carter-like levels.

Bingo, Ding ding ding ding...hot topic issue for me!

The indexing for inflation is fucking skewed...and it pisses me off.

First, to remove the cost of gas at the pump from inflationary indexes is fucking ludicrous. That's like discounting the size of someones ass, when asking him/her to step on the scale!

Second, the *source* of goods in this country has mysteriously changed several times over. What used to be a $45 dollar pair of Levi Jeans (made in the USA) in 1998 became a $45 dollar pair of Levi Jeans made in Mexico in 2003...and I currently defy anyone to find a pair of $45 Levi Jeans sold today not made in a third world country like Guatemala or the some shithole in southeast asia.

The inverse of the above second point, is that the cost of goods to Levi's has dropped over this period due to source location changing, which has allowed Levis to maintain a $45 price point. This falls conveniently into the laps of the government as a lack of price increases, but we're not comparing apples to apples, here.

Had Levi's sold the same pair of USA made jeans in 1998 for $45, I guarantee you the same USA pair today would cost close to $150 or more!!!

Now, is this the government's fault? A good part of it is, yes. Dubya and his predecessor, Bill, have made foreign trade policy VERY favorable to US corporations importing goods. NAFTA sure helps as well.

If a company is going to be able to sell more jeans at $45 than $150, and at the same time, enjoy a greatly reduced COGS....they're going to do it.



For anyone that is going to claim that the current inflation rate is what it's being irresponsibly advertised at, they need to stop snorting draino. I agree with Dave...inflation rates are as bad as Carter era, if not worse. International trade wasn't wide fucking open in 1978, like it is now. Prices can be managed alot easier now, to smooth out inflation rates.


What's going to happen if these third world countries start asking for more money (which may indeed happen with our plumetting dollar), we will start to see these hidden inflation rates come out in full force....Hell, maybe even close to what may qualify as hyperinflationary for one of the 3 requisite years.


Good point, dave!

[Voyager]

3) Bush has done well with averting this recession and making the one he inherited in '01 short.

Maybe I misread the title of this thread - is this the who-has-the-funniest-joke thread?

Good one! I'd say we have a winner.

[Andrew]

First, to remove the cost of gas at the pump from inflationary indexes is fucking ludicrous. That's like discounting the size of someones ass, when asking him/her to step on the scale!

In Oz it is included...and inflation is thru the roof - therefore our interest rates are thru the fucking roof. And the Oz dollar is invested in because of the difference between interest rates here and in the USA. Meaning I get a triple whammy right where it hurts.

[strangegrey]

1) We're not in a recession.

Technically, no. But like I said, the term is trailing, not leading. It's very hard to say you're not waist deep in shit, if the only way you can say you're waist deep in shit is to be able to climb out of the pile of shit, get out a tape measure and measure the height of the line of feces around your waist.

2) I have to agree that the talk of being in a recession comes from the media trying to project doom and gloom stemming from high gas prices and people who bought houses they couldn't afford.

There aren't many people out there *not* hurting from gas prices, I can assure you that. However, the housing thing...if anyone bought a house without a fixed interest rate, they got what they deserve. There isn't a fucking way in hell I would have ever commited to buying something without a clear schedule of payments to the very end that would never change.

3) Bush has done well with averting this recession and making the one he inherited in '01 short. But I do agree with Frank that the economy is cyclical and maybe is best left alone. But W is fucked no matter what he does, and has been since day one. He inherited a mess waiting to happen with stocks and terrorism....

For whomever says they are prepared to leave this country. FUCK YOU!

Hard to say what another president would have done...so I can't argue with that logic. Both Bush and Clinton did their fair share to artificially boost the capital markets in this country. I don't hold Bush entirely unaccountable for the recession in 2000-2001, but I don't hold Clinton unaccountable either. However, numbers don't lie. Bill Clinton, who fiscally/monetarily, was a far more conservative president than George W. Bush has ever been, oversaw some of the greatest financial growth we've ever experienced as a country. Was all of it real? No, we know that now. But, take away what eventually deflated in 2001, and you still have the greatest period of economic growth ever....and we still had recessions in the 90s.

I still stand by my original statement, that sometimes you have to let recessions play out. When you try to alleviate their effects or mitigate them, you cause potential future damage. Bush did it with interest rates in 2001, and look what we ended up with, a rediculous housing crisis that has caused real estate to get extremely volitile in recent years. Now, by issuing this rebate check, he may have fucked any chance for a sitting president to prevent tax cuts from sunsetting after 2010.