The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[strangegrey]

"Had the US been attacked on 9/11, under an Al Gore presidency, there would have been a military response....it might not have been the same type of response.."

Right...the difference? Maintaining a response...to the right country that issued the attack! Not send over soldiers that under-number my G.I Joe collection, completely ignore that issue while at the same time declare war on another country for a reason that turned out to be false!

Progs, I'm disappointed in you that an Ohioan or whichever you would like to be called, like you will look forward to at least 4 more years under a Republican Party..a place where blue-color was once high in profile and proud of their doings. An Obama election would benefit a place like Ohio. Then again, Ohio was the deciding factor of last elections turnout, so I'm not surprised that people of that caliber would vote another Repub. in the house.

I currently have a guy.. a young guy..2 years older than me working on my bathroom and fixing it up. He's voting for McCain. The reason? For abortion reasons. What a joke.

Hopefully this election is done by atleast 11 tomorrow and they close up shop in a landslide.

First...learn to use the quote button. I would prefer that my statement not be misinterpreted as yours. Second, my statement was not an invitation for someone to purport to know what Al Gore would have or wouldn't have done....other than to suggest that there *would* be a military response to 9/11.

Hope that clarifies things....

[Enigma869]

CNN just announced the death of Obama's grandmother. I suspected that she probably wouldn't make it until Election Day.


John from Boston

[Barb]

CNN just announced the death of Obama's grandmother. I suspected that she probably wouldn't make it until Election Day.


John from Boston

That really is too bad. If she could have hung on one more day she could have seen her grandson elected POTUS.

[hoagiepete]

Dems controlling the House, Senate and White House. That will be an absolute disaster for our country. The Republicans f'ed it up when they had it, this will be worse.

I still haven't figured out how anyone can theoritically determine who is making "too much money" and then say we have to take it from them because of that fact and give to those that don't. Who should have that power? When is enough enough? Where do you stop? It's all arbitrary, except as to how it can get the most votes.

Any tax increase better include incentives for charitable deductions because charities and non-profits will be massacred when this takes place.

Give the Oval office to Obama, just give Congress back to the Republicans (which I know ain't gonna happen for a while).

Save this thought for four years and I'll be glad to eat my words if that is not the case. Higher inflation, higher interest rates, higher unemployment, more companies (and jobs) fleeing to other countries, weaker defense, more entitlements, less productivity, more division...it's gonna happen.

There's nowhere to go but up. It can get worse of course, but under a fresh new resume who has a different policy and different outlook on how to control the country, with a well, intelligent, thought out plan, I believe this country would be on it's way up under a Obama regime. It will take a few years, under any candidate, but it will recover faster under a regime with a plan, and with a plan for change. Did I mention that intelligence would be behind this? Something we haven't seen since the Clinton years. I'm confident we'll get back on track, come January. Slowly, but surely.

It can get worse...much worse. I guess you'd better define "on the way up" 'cause I don't see it. He may have a plan, but it won't be good for America. Putting some intelligence behind a bad plan makes me even more nervous yet.

Doesn't anyone remember that the economy flourished for 7 of Bush's 8 years? Even with the attack on 9/11? Too many people drank the media's cool aid. They were calling a recession long before there was one.

The banking mess is the result of decades of Washington pandering. Someone back there, including Obama and McCain, needs to quit point f'n fingers and admit they were ALL to blame for that one...not just ol' GW.

[RossValoryRocks]

CNN just announced the death of Obama's grandmother. I suspected that she probably wouldn't make it until Election Day.


John from Boston

That really is too bad. If she could have hung on one more day she could have seen her grandson elected POTUS.

There are those of us who believe she will still see it, just through clear eyes without the pain and hurt of a sick body.

Godspeed to her and a thank you for raising a good man! (Even if I disagree with his policies)

[strangegrey]

Doesn't anyone remember that the economy flourished for 7 of Bush's 8 years? Even with the attack on 9/11? Too many people drank the media's cool aid. They were calling a recession long before there was one.

Meh, that's not the way to go about winning your point. Bush's entire economic presidency...in both fiscal policy and monetary policy, has been about artificially staving off a recession. From tax cuts, to stimulus checks, to dropping interest rates to dangerously low levels (something we've been doing even recently...the idiots), to purposely kicking the living piss out of the value of the dollar to increase foreign debt investment (so we can stave off sooner financial collapse)

A point of fact. Recession is as necessary for a healthy economy as growth. When you artificially stave it off....as has been done for the past 16 years...you end up with dreadfully unhealthy bubbles that don't do the public ANY good.

I for one, am glad that the current financial crisis is happening, irrespective of the idiocy being enacted by Paulson and Bush. It really seems like there's no more fiscal currency left for Bush to play with.


The fact of the matter is that you can not sit there with a straight face and say that the dimwit currently in the white house is responsible for preventing a recession between 2001-2008...First, we WERE in a recession in 2001.

So let's safely say, to the TRUE definition of 2002-2007. The very efforts that Bush undertook to prevent recession during those years, are the same factors that is currently bringing about our current financial collapse...which may result in something that equals The Great Depression.


Sorry....the shit you're throwing is not sticking on the wall....

[Tito]

Godspeed to her and a thank you for raising a good man! (Even if I disagree with his policies)

The jury is still out on that one.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Fact,

Obama is going to win, you might as well accept that. They'll be power for four or eight years, fuck everything up and get thrown out of power. The Republicans will swoop into power, fuck everything up and get thrown out again.

Rinse

Repeat

*Applause*... just as she's been for the past 232 years.

actually the nations leaders coulnt have been always crap over the last 232. we're just going through a dry patch when it comes to bad leaders.

I think the country is going to make a very bad choice tommorow, but the alternative isnt clearly that exciting. The country has survived.
James Buchanan, Ulysses S Grant , Warren Harding, Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, - none of them particularily brilliant leaders, and the Congress has been temporarily packed with clowns from time to time in our history.

Dont stop beleiving ! Um.. Well actually Take a break from believing for four to eight years, then start believing again

[hoagiepete]

CNN just announced the death of Obama's grandmother. I suspected that she probably wouldn't make it until Election Day.


John from Boston

That really is too bad. If she could have hung on one more day she could have seen her grandson elected POTUS.

There are those of us who believe she will still see it, just through clear eyes without the pain and hurt of a sick body.

Godspeed to her and a thank you for raising a good man! (Even if I disagree with his policies)

I grew up with my Grandmothers and know there can be no one more special. I lost my last surviving one last week and fully understand the heartache. I wish their family well.

[hoagiepete]

Doesn't anyone remember that the economy flourished for 7 of Bush's 8 years? Even with the attack on 9/11? Too many people drank the media's cool aid. They were calling a recession long before there was one.

Meh, that's not the way to go about winning your point. Bush's entire economic presidency...in both fiscal policy and monetary policy, has been about artificially staving off a recession. From tax cuts, to stimulus checks, to dropping interest rates to dangerously low levels (something we've been doing even recently...the idiots), to purposely kicking the living piss out of the value of the dollar to increase foreign debt investment (so we can stave off sooner financial collapse)

A point of fact. Recession is as necessary for a healthy economy as growth. When you artificially stave it off....as has been done for the past 16 years...you end up with dreadfully unhealthy bubbles that don't do the public ANY good.

I for one, am glad that the current financial crisis is happening, irrespective of the idiocy being enacted by Paulson and Bush. It really seems like there's no more fiscal currency left for Bush to play with.


The fact of the matter is that you can not sit there with a straight face and say that the dimwit currently in the white house is responsible for preventing a recession between 2001-2008...First, we WERE in a recession in 2001.

So let's safely say, to the TRUE definition of 2002-2007. The very efforts that Bush undertook to prevent recession during those years, are the same factors that is currently bringing about our current financial collapse...which may result in something that equals The Great Depression.


Sorry....the shit you're throwing is not sticking on the wall....

While I'll stand by my media comments, I actually agree with several of your points. I guess the only thing I can add is that there are many more to blame than one man or office.

Clinton got credit for the benefits of Reaganomics and the benefit of a once in a lifetime internet explosion. I guess I'd rather be lucky than good. Did he engineer that economy??

If I'm here in 4 years, I'll be interested in your take then.

[strangegrey]

Doesn't anyone remember that the economy flourished for 7 of Bush's 8 years? Even with the attack on 9/11? Too many people drank the media's cool aid. They were calling a recession long before there was one.

Meh, that's not the way to go about winning your point. Bush's entire economic presidency...in both fiscal policy and monetary policy, has been about artificially staving off a recession. From tax cuts, to stimulus checks, to dropping interest rates to dangerously low levels (something we've been doing even recently...the idiots), to purposely kicking the living piss out of the value of the dollar to increase foreign debt investment (so we can stave off sooner financial collapse)

A point of fact. Recession is as necessary for a healthy economy as growth. When you artificially stave it off....as has been done for the past 16 years...you end up with dreadfully unhealthy bubbles that don't do the public ANY good.

I for one, am glad that the current financial crisis is happening, irrespective of the idiocy being enacted by Paulson and Bush. It really seems like there's no more fiscal currency left for Bush to play with.


The fact of the matter is that you can not sit there with a straight face and say that the dimwit currently in the white house is responsible for preventing a recession between 2001-2008...First, we WERE in a recession in 2001.

So let's safely say, to the TRUE definition of 2002-2007. The very efforts that Bush undertook to prevent recession during those years, are the same factors that is currently bringing about our current financial collapse...which may result in something that equals The Great Depression.


Sorry....the shit you're throwing is not sticking on the wall....

While I'll stand by my media comments, I actually agree with several of your points. I guess the only thing I can add is that there are many more to blame than one man or office.

Clinton got credit for the benefits of Reaganomics and the benefit of a once in a lifetime internet explosion. I guess I'd rather be lucky than good. Did he engineer that economy??

If I'm here in 4 years, I'll be interested in your take then.

Well, looks like we agree....beacuse the Media has been playing the public like flutes for years. Clinton most certainly reaped a great deal of what Reagan sowed....despite the fact that he left GWB with economic makings of the recession of 2000-2001.

Unfortunately, I do feel that as of late, presidents have used far more invasive tools at their disposal to stave off the natural recessional tide of the economy.....I'm not sure there's anyone that can deny that the tech bubble of the late 90s wasn't helped along, and provide references to support the claim.

The various bubbles we've had since 1995 have had one underlying motive....and I refuse to believe that the motive is for the economic good of the people, because we all know bubbles burst. The motive is purely to stave off disaster until you're no longer holding the receipt. CLinton was guilty of this and Bush was guilty of this.


I sincerely hope that Barack Obama has the fortitude to not play this game...and grow our economy sensibly....

[Jana]

Obama's grandmother had a long and full life and died peacefully, but I think for him this is going to be so hard. I'm pretty sure now Obama is going to win, and not to have his mother and second mother figure, his grandmother, who was such a force in his life, present for this amazing moment is sad. I'm so happy he got to see her. But how bittersweet for him if he does win, because it would be such a momentous and historic event in his life and yet with the pain of having just lost his beloved grandmother the day before. Prayers for his family.

[Enigma869]

I grew up with my Grandmothers and know there can be no one more special. I lost my last surviving one last week and fully understand the heartache.

My condolences to you and your family. I was very close with my grandmother so completely understand what a huge hole it leaves.


John from Boston

[RossValoryRocks]

Godspeed to her and a thank you for raising a good man! (Even if I disagree with his policies)

The jury is still out on that one.

Not at all...Obama is a good man, misguided on policies, but a good man. He has his country's best interests at heart...it is how he views they I have a problem with.

[Tito]

Godspeed to her and a thank you for raising a good man! (Even if I disagree with his policies)

The jury is still out on that one.

Not at all...Obama is a good man, misguided on policies, but a good man. He has his country's best interests at heart...it is how he views they I have a problem with.

Debatable.

Trying to turn this country into an outright socialist country and moving the country culturally to the left, does not make him a good man in my book. You can call them policies. But his policies can hurt this country big time, which because of both parties (mostly republicans) ineptness, will be hard to reverse. Will the country cease to exist -no. Will anybody die -no. But will it radically change for the worse - yes. Infringing on my rights (guns and free speech most notably) and taking more of my hard earned money makes him an enemy to me and NOT a good person.

Not to mention his POSSIBLE affliations which questionable people to say the least. Depending how strong those relationships are may also disqualify him from being a good person. Rising to power through Chicago politics inherently makes him a piece of shit.

Don't let the charisma fool you.

[hoagiepete]

I grew up with my Grandmothers and know there can be no one more special. I lost my last surviving one last week and fully understand the heartache.

My condolences to you and your family. I was very close with my grandmother so completely understand what a huge hole it leaves.


John from Boston

Thanks John. Your words are appreciated.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not McCain...independent 527 groups...McCain has refused to touch this issue. Again you spew the swill of the uninformed left. Where do you do your research????

Many of these ads, such as the one in your home state of PA, are being run by the local Republican Party.
As the party's current standardbearer is McCain not capable of calling off the hounds?
And if he can't control his own party, how is he expected to protect America?

MSNBC's Olberman page exclusively???

Still waiting to hear about all these instances of Olbermann lies and mis-informaition.
You guys said the "liberal media" wouldn't offer a correction about "kill him" being chanted at a Palin rally - Olbermann did.
You guys said the "liberal media" wouldn't cover the hanging Palin effigy - Olbermann covered it and condemned it.
The truth is, Olbermann is faar more accurate and even-handed than his counterparts on the right and even many of the so-called non-partisan anchors.
Speaking of which, how come neither O'Reilly or Hannity felt the need to mention Ted Steven's indictment, hmmm?

[Saint John]

Godspeed to her and a thank you for raising a good man! (Even if I disagree with his policies)

The jury is still out on that one.

The fuck it is. She raised a dickhead that pals around with radicals and nutbar pastors.

[S2M]

Godspeed to her and a thank you for raising a good man! (Even if I disagree with his policies)

The jury is still out on that one.

The fuck it is. She raised a dickhead that pals around with radicals and nutbar pastors.

and JFK's father was a bootlegger.....what's your point?

[Saint John]

Godspeed to her and a thank you for raising a good man! (Even if I disagree with his policies)

The jury is still out on that one.

The fuck it is. She raised a dickhead that pals around with radicals and nutbar pastors.

and JFK's father was a bootlegger.....what's your point?

JFK loved this country. I really believe that Obama does not. He, like Ayers and Wright, loves exploiting it...that's it.

[S2M]

Godspeed to her and a thank you for raising a good man! (Even if I disagree with his policies)

The jury is still out on that one.

The fuck it is. She raised a dickhead that pals around with radicals and nutbar pastors.

and JFK's father was a bootlegger.....what's your point?

JFK loved this country. I really believe that Obama does not. He, like Ayers and Wright, loves exploiting it...that's it.

True....There's nothing like hating the country that made you what you are.....now THAT'S a nick in the kuts.

[The_Noble_Cause]

TNC, you're going to fight a losing battle here. Hayseed in some ways may be viewed as 'right-wing'....but only in very specific contexts, like military action, etc.

Bush spent far more than Clinton, during his years...he led one of the most liberal, non-fiscally responsible budget runs in history. While you might think that fiscal responsibility is a democrat thing...it's only been a small portion of the democrat party lead by Clinton (who wasn't very popular when he left office). Bush's support of immigration amnesty, something he earned a shitload of enemies in the republican part, is another example.

While RINOs like Colin Powell can go on tv and say that the "party has moved farther to the right" and get away with it on a liberal network...is fucking laughable. The truth is, Hayseed and his administration has (again with above mentioned exceptions) been a very liberal-republican president....The right-most sections of the republican party hasn't moved much. It's the left-pandering portion of the party that has moved very much to the center. If the idiocy of Powell's analysis is to benchmark where the republican party sits in relation to the left or center....then he can get away with saying stupid shite like "the party has moved left". That's just not true.


I don't think *either* faction of the republican party is doing it correctly these days....but let's strive to be acurate here. To refer to Hayseed as the boogie man of all republican boogie mans, waters down your ability to throw a solid argument onto the table.

Certainly republican presidents in the past have signed legislation that can be considered 'liberal' by either past or current point of view....but you need to cite the entire body of the president's work before you label them in one way or another.

For every right-wing, fascist, hittler-esque label you can successfully slap on to the hayseed idiot currently rotting in the white house for something he's done, I'm quite confident that a large handful of people here can rebut with a list of things that don't at all put him in cohorts with the majority of the conservative party.

I think your conflating conservatism with the right-wing.
I don't think neo-con foreign policy, warrantless wiretaps, and torture is Conservative, but it is certainly right wing.
Under Bush, the party has moved further to the right, not only in strident rhetoric, but by genuine deeds.
Most GOP Presidents pre-Reagan were still living under the big gov't shadow of FDR.
Reagan converted Democrats to the cause, Bush has created apostates fleeing his own party.

[Voyager]

JFK loved this country. I really believe that Obama does not. He, like Ayers and Wright, loves exploiting it...that's it.

Dude, that's pretty far-fetched thing to assume. I mean, as much as George W. Douche has fucked our country in its ass, I still think that he believes he has tried to do the right thing for the country.

I hope Obama gets elected and changes your mind on that one.

[YoungJRNY]

Godspeed to her and a thank you for raising a good man! (Even if I disagree with his policies)

The jury is still out on that one.

The fuck it is. She raised a dickhead that pals around with radicals and nutbar pastors.

and JFK's father was a bootlegger.....what's your point?

JFK loved this country. I really believe that Obama does not. He, like Ayers and Wright, loves exploiting it...that's it.

This is what worries me about Americans as a whole. Ignorance. There really isn't much left to say about that statement. This is why the past few years other countries look at us, and just bust out in a hysterical laugh.


Wow.

[Saint John]

JFK loved this country. I really believe that Obama does not. He, like Ayers and Wright, loves exploiting it...that's it.

Dude, that's pretty far-fetched thing to assume. I mean, as much as George W. Douche has fucked our country in its ass, I still think that he believes he has tried to do the right thing for the country.

I hope Obama gets elected and changes your mind on that one.

I hope I'm wrong, too. But considering I've watched Obama grow from a street hustler into a politicain over the last 15 years I doubt that's going to happen. I think it's you that's going to be surprised.

[RossValoryRocks]

Speaking of which, how come neither O'Reilly or Hannity felt the need to mention Ted Steven's indictment, hmmm?

I couldn't tell you...I don't listen or watch them.

[conversationpc]

Speaking of which, how come neither O'Reilly or Hannity felt the need to mention Ted Steven's indictment, hmmm?

I couldn't tell you...I don't listen or watch them.

I'm not sure which show he was mentioned on...Perhaps Beck's show but I know he was on one of the three because I remember hearing about it and those are the only shows I've had time to listen to lately.

[Tito]

I think your conflating conservatism with the right-wing.
I don't think neo-con foreign policy, warrantless wiretaps, and torture is Conservative, but it is certainly right wing.
Under Bush, the party has moved further to the right, not only in strident rhetoric, but by genuine deeds.
Most GOP Presidents pre-Reagan were still living under the big gov't shadow of FDR.
Reagan converted Democrats to the cause, Bush has created apostates fleeing his own party.

I got to disagree with that. As a conservative I don't think he's moved the party to the right. The 3 examples above are not right wing.

If you look at Bush's record from foreign policy to education (NCLB), I think he moved to the left. I never did understand the left's hatred of him since he adopted some of their policies.

[S2M]

Well, one thing is most certain. After tomorrow Palin can go ahead with that Top 10 MILFS of Alaska photo shoot she's been putting off......

[RossValoryRocks]

Well, one thing is most certain. After tomorrow Palin can go ahead with that Top 10 MILFS of Alaska photo shoot she's been putting off......

Keep counting those Chickens just yet...I kept hearing about the exact same thing in 2004 too...