The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[conversationpc]

Random thought from an independent.....Democrats are said to be socialists ...but with the bailouts of AIG, etc....what is that but Republican socialism.

pssst...dirty little secret....just between you and me.....

The Pubbies just shut down the biggest Dem piggybanks that ever existed. See Freddie and Fannie. The Dems can't/won't scream about it because their actions at Freddie and Fannie nearly brought about a Depression and they know it.

Don't tell anyone else please, this is a secret.

Psssstttt.....The Republicans played a part in it, too.

[conversationpc]

Only because they cowtowed to the Dems who were squealing like stuck pigs. We had the majority and we let the whiners have their way.

Doesn't matter...They deserve part of the blame just like the Dems.

[grimlocked]

I'm disappointed with McCain's first major decision: choosing Sarah Palin for VP. Even if McCain doesn't die in his first term and Palin never really becomes president, I have doubts in the sincerity of his decision-making in general. His decision on Palin is a clear indication that he cares more about himself winning the race (since Palin will secure the conservative base) than of caring for the country. I find if unbelievable and insulting that he would trust the fate of the nation on someone like Palin.

I never really cared about the presidential race as my thought was that whoever wins (McCain or Obama), I was sure that it will be a big improvement over Bush. But now, the thought of Palin becoming president scares the **** out of me. And the chances of this happening is really high given McCain's age and his health.

I really don't know personally who Sarah Palin is so there is a chance that she might really be a good person or a good wife/mom. (I have very high respect for her as a human being and for her accomplishments). But that is not what I'm looking for in a president.

Hopefully, I won't be tagged as sexist but these are the things I don't like about her:

1. For someone running VP, it's unacceptable that she is clueless about foreign policy. She doesn't even know the Bush Doctrine. She considers herself ready and prepared for the task of foreign policy by virtue of Russia being close to her backyard.

2. She has a tendency to inject her religious beliefs into her policies

3. She believes that the war on Iraq is a task from God

4. She allegedly tried to ban books in the city library (then fired the librarian who refused)

5. She allegedly pressured the state police chief to fire her former brother-in-law (then fired the chief for refusing)

6. Despite her talking points of being transparent, her husband disregarded the subpoena for the investigation on #5 (which makes me wonder if subpoenas are now optional). I think for someone running as VP, I am justified to want to know if she really fired those people who did not do as she said. Her refusal and delay tactics for the investigation is not a good sign of her claimed transparency (aside from being somewhat above the law).

7. The McCain/Obama ticket pushed for "kid gloves" treatment on Palin regarding the Oct 2 VP debate, citing that she is inexperienced as a debater (but apparently experienced to become VP). If she ever becomes president, I'm not sure if she can request a "be easy on me" meeting with president Putin.

8. She supported the "bridge to nowhere" in her 2006 campaign then flip-flopped later. Even if the bridge did not materialize, they kept the money for other state ventures. Then had the guts to say in her VP acceptance speech that she said to congress on the bridge "thanks but no thanks". She went ahead with the road leading to the non-existent bridge. Now, Alaska has the most expensive/biggest/longest cul-de-sac.

9. In her VP acceptance speech, she lied that Obama has not written a single bill or reform when in fact Obama wrote over 110 bills as senator.

10. I'm not sure how she would be effective if she has 5 kids to take care of (if she can, I'm all praise for her but at this point, I think her family needs her more specially her young born)

11. If Sarah Palin fails as VP or president, it will look bad on women and future women candidates (and I'm one of those people who would like to see a women president in my lifetime, but hopefully, one that is elected by virtue of qualification and not on gender).

12. She was so comfortable about giving an answer suggesting going to war with Russia. Having made that "of the top her head" answer, I'm not sure if she has a firm understanding of what a war with Russia means to the survival of the planet.


Again, Sarah Palin seems like a really nice lady, but I want an above-average person governing the country.

[conversationpc]

1. For someone running VP, it's unacceptable that she is clueless about foreign policy. She doesn't even know the Bush Doctrine. She considers herself ready and prepared for the task of foreign policy by virtue of Russia being close to her backyard.

She is not clueless and the Bush Doctrine has had at least 4 different applications, according to the man who coined the phrase to begin with. The Wikipedia entry on it also describes the various incarnations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine

2. She has a tendency to inject her religious beliefs into her policies

So do all other politicians. A person's religion effects their thought processes on everything. Let me know if she starts codifying portions of scripture into law.

3. She believes that the war on Iraq is a task from God

Proven false...This was taken out of context from a speech she made at some church where she actually said that she prayed that we would be on God's side, not that the Iraq war was a task from God. Big difference.

4. She allegedly tried to ban books in the city library (then fired the librarian who refused)

Also blatantly false, not to mention that some of the books on this supposed list were not even in publicaton at the time she was accused of banning them.

5. She allegedly pressured the state police chief to fire her former brother-in-law (then fired the chief for refusing)

Still being looked into...However, this policeman tasered a young boy for no apparent reason and also threatened others. We'll see how it turns out, though.

6. Despite her talking points of being transparent, her husband disregarded the subpoena for the investigation on #5 (which makes me wonder if subpoenas are now optional). I think for someone running as VP, I am justified to want to know if she really fired those people who did not do as she said. Her refusal and delay tactics for the investigation is not a good sign of her claimed transparency (aside from being somewhat above the law).

Haven't heard this one before.

7. The McCain/Obama ticket pushed for "kid gloves" treatment on Palin regarding the Oct 2 VP debate, citing that she is inexperienced as a debater (but apparently experienced to become VP). If she ever becomes president, I'm not sure if she can request a "be easy on me" meeting with president Putin.

I don't believe this one for a minute. Sounds like a flat-out lie.

8. She supported the "bridge to nowhere" in her 2006 campaign then flip-flopped later. Even if the bridge did not materialize, they kept the money for other state ventures. Then had the guts to say in her VP acceptance speech that she said to congress on the bridge "thanks but no thanks". She went ahead with the road leading to the non-existent bridge. Now, Alaska has the most expensive/biggest/longest cul-de-sac.

Yes, she initially supported it but ditched the plan in favor of a ferry system for the town in which it was supposed to be built. As far as keeping the funds for the bridge, the question is, is it legal to do so and were they put to use for projects actually needed in Alaska?

9. In her VP acceptance speech, she lied that Obama has not written a single bill or reform when in fact Obama wrote over 110 bills as senator.

Obama has sponsored those bills but has he actually WRITTEN all of them or any of them, for that matter?

10. I'm not sure how she would be effective if she has 5 kids to take care of (if she can, I'm all praise for her but at this point, I think her family needs her more specially her young born)

Give me a break...Would you say this about a man who has young children at home? This is not even an issue.

11. If Sarah Palin fails as VP or president, it will look bad on women and future women candidates (and I'm one of those people who would like to see a women president in my lifetime, but hopefully, one that is elected by virtue of qualification and not on gender).

Does it look bad on men candidates since Bush has failed as President?

12. She was so comfortable about giving an answer suggesting going to war with Russia. Having made that "of the top her head" answer, I'm not sure if she has a firm understanding of what a war with Russia means to the survival of the planet.

As a NATO member, we are OBLIGATED to go to war if another NATO country is invaded or attacked.

Again, Sarah Palin seems like a really nice lady, but I want an above-average person governing the country.

She's well above average and no less experienced than Obama, for instance, who is the top of ticket on the Democratic side, not VP as she is.

[Enigma869]

7. The McCain/Obama ticket pushed for "kid gloves" treatment on Palin regarding the Oct 2 VP debate, citing that she is inexperienced as a debater (but apparently experienced to become VP). If she ever becomes president, I'm not sure if she can request a "be easy on me" meeting with president Putin.

I don't believe this one for a minute. Sounds like a flat-out lie.

Sadly, this isn't a lie. Here is an excerpt from the article that was published in the New York Times:
McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage. Here is a link to the story...http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/po ... te.html?hp


As far as the experience thing goes between Obama and Palin, I think the Obama camp would be wise to let that one go. Contrary to what Puppet Palin's supporters will tell you, she isn't very experienced at all. I've actually heard some Palin supporters advance the premise that because her home state borders two foreign countries (Canada and Russia), that she is more experienced in dealing with foreign nations! That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life! By that reasoning, we should send the Mayor of Key West over to Cuba in a rowboat to make peace with the Castro family

I still think Obama needs to remember that he is running against McCain, and not Palin. I think McCain comes across as very likeable (at least as a likeable as a politician can). I think Palin comes off as dishonest, insincere, and as someone who doesn't have a thought of her own. There is a reason that Biden (who I can't stand) has done 85 news conferences/interviews, since he was named as the VP candidate, and Puppet Palin has done a whopping TWO! McCain knows that the further the microphones stay away from this woman, the more likely it is that he might just get some votes from some nutbags who have a woody for the gun-toting, animal killer


John from Boston

[Barb]

7. The McCain/Obama ticket pushed for "kid gloves" treatment on Palin regarding the Oct 2 VP debate, citing that she is inexperienced as a debater (but apparently experienced to become VP). If she ever becomes president, I'm not sure if she can request a "be easy on me" meeting with president Putin.

I don't believe this one for a minute. Sounds like a flat-out lie.

Sadly, this isn't a lie. Here is an excerpt from the article that was published in the New York Times:
McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage. Here is a link to the story...http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/po ... te.html?hp


As far as the experience thing goes between Obama and Palin, I think the Obama camp would be wise to let that one go. Contrary to what Puppet Palin's supporters will tell you, she isn't very experienced at all. I've actually heard some Palin supporters advance the premise that because her home state borders two foreign countries (Canada and Russia), that she is more experienced in dealing with foreign nations! That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life! By that reasoning, we should send the Mayor of Key West over to Cuba in a rowboat to make peace with the Castro family

I still think Obama needs to remember that he is running against McCain, and not Palin. I think McCain comes across as very likeable (at least as a likeable as a politician can). I think Palin comes off as dishonest, insincere, and as someone who doesn't have a thought of her own. There is a reason that Biden (who I can't stand) has done 85 news conferences/interviews, since he was named as the VP candidate, and Puppet Palin has done a whopping TWO! McCain knows that the further the microphones stay away from this woman, the more likely it is that he might just get some votes from some nutbags who have a woody for the gun-toting, animal killer


John from Boston

So who threw in the "relatively inexperienced debater" commentary? The McCain camp or is the Times editorializing there?

And to the person who said Paliin governs by her relgious beliefs, find the USA Today article reporting that she has governed Alaska from the center.

[conversationpc]

7. The McCain/Obama ticket pushed for "kid gloves" treatment on Palin regarding the Oct 2 VP debate, citing that she is inexperienced as a debater (but apparently experienced to become VP). If she ever becomes president, I'm not sure if she can request a "be easy on me" meeting with president Putin.

I don't believe this one for a minute. Sounds like a flat-out lie.

Sadly, this isn't a lie. Here is an excerpt from the article that was published in the New York Times:
McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage. Here is a link to the story...http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/po ... te.html?hp


As far as the experience thing goes between Obama and Palin, I think the Obama camp would be wise to let that one go. Contrary to what Puppet Palin's supporters will tell you, she isn't very experienced at all. I've actually heard some Palin supporters advance the premise that because her home state borders two foreign countries (Canada and Russia), that she is more experienced in dealing with foreign nations! That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life! By that reasoning, we should send the Mayor of Key West over to Cuba in a rowboat to make peace with the Castro family

I still think Obama needs to remember that he is running against McCain, and not Palin. I think McCain comes across as very likeable (at least as a likeable as a politician can). I think Palin comes off as dishonest, insincere, and as someone who doesn't have a thought of her own. There is a reason that Biden (who I can't stand) has done 85 news conferences/interviews, since he was named as the VP candidate, and Puppet Palin has done a whopping TWO! McCain knows that the further the microphones stay away from this woman, the more likely it is that he might just get some votes from some nutbags who have a woody for the gun-toting, animal killer


John from Boston

Hmmm...If true, that's a pretty stupid thing to do. I'll have to see a more unbiased source than the New York Times, though.

[Enigma869]

So who threw in the "relatively inexperienced debater" commentary? The McCain camp or is the Times editorializing there?

I can't answer with certainty who is responsible for that comment, but I'm certain that it had nothing to do with The Times. I've seen the story in more than 10 places (including on tv), and all have directly attributed the story to McCain. Also, McCain was on 60 Minutes last night and was asked directly about this. Like a typical politician, he danced around the question, and never answered. He also didn't deny it, so I suspect that it did in fact come from him, or one of his representatives.


John from Boston

[Barb]

From the same NY Times article:

McCain advisers said they were only somewhat concerned about Ms. Palin’s debating skills compared with those of Mr. Biden, who has served six terms in the Senate, or about his chances of tripping her up. Instead, they say, they wanted Ms. Palin to have opportunities to present Mr. McCain’s positions, rather than spending time talking about her experience or playing defense.

On another note... I wonder if Obama will be bringing his teleprompeter to the debates.

[conversationpc]

So who threw in the "relatively inexperienced debater" commentary? The McCain camp or is the Times editorializing there?

I can't answer with certainty who is responsible for that comment, but I'm certain that it had nothing to do with The Times. I've seen the story in more than 10 places (including on tv), and all have directly attributed the story to McCain. Also, McCain was on 60 Minutes last night and was asked directly about this. Like a typical politician, he danced around the question, and never answered. He also didn't deny it, so I suspect that it did in fact come from him, or one of his representatives.


John from Boston

I guess we'll see...The little bit of debate footage I have seen of Palin has shown her handling herself fairly well but I'll have to see her in action before I make up my own mind.

[Enigma869]

Hmmm...If true, that's a pretty stupid thing to do.

I agree. Setting rules is one thing. To set rules that you believe somehow shelter your candidate is just flat out foolish! The American people will see right through that!

I'll have to see a more unbiased source than the New York Times, though.

I don't know which sources you consider "unbiased" or biased. I simply used that particular link, because The New York Times is the most global paper in the world, as far as I know. If you just go into Google and type something to the effect of "Vice Presidental Debate Ground Rules Set For Palin", I trust you'll find a myriad of other sources. I don't believe that you're going to find the wording to be much different. I've read the story in 10 different places, and every story has been almost the same verbiage!


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

On another note... I wonder if Obama will be bringing his teleprompeter to the debates.

Don't all of these politicians use a teleprompter? I know with 100% certainty that I saw Palin reading off the screen of her teleprompter several times during her nomination acceptance. I found it odd that the cameras would even keep panning to it, because it looks ridiculous.


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

I don't know which sources you consider "unbiased" or biased. I simply used that particular link, because The New York Times is the most global paper in the world, as far as I know. If you just go into Google and type something to the effect of "Vice Presidental Debate Ground Rules Set For Palin", I trust you'll find a myriad of other sources. I don't believe that you're going to find the wording to be much different. I've read the story in 10 different places, and every story has been almost the same verbiage!

The NY Times is one of those papers that is just obviously slanted left. There are others that slant the other way but the NYT is one of the blatant left-leaning papers.

That being said, I looked at three other sources real quick and all three used the exact same article from the NYT.

[grimlocked]

1. For someone running VP, it's unacceptable that she is clueless about foreign policy. She doesn't even know the Bush Doctrine. She considers herself ready and prepared for the task of foreign policy by virtue of Russia being close to her backyard.

She is not clueless and the Bush Doctrine has had at least 4 different applications, according to the man who coined the phrase to begin with. The Wikipedia entry on it also describes the various incarnations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine

Her response to Charlie Gibson's question about the Bush Doctrine is still very far from any of those different applications or incarnations. At least to me, she appeared clueless about foreign policy. I'll leave it to the others to see for themselves here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z75QSExE0jU

2. She has a tendency to inject her religious beliefs into her policies

So do all other politicians. A person's religion effects their thought processes on everything. Let me know if she starts codifying portions of scripture into law.

From some journalist: She wants to criminalize abortion. She chose to carry a Down syndrome fetus to term after receiving a prenatal diagnosis through amniocentesis. That is her absolute right. But 90 percent of American women who receive the same diagnosis choose to terminate their pregnancies. Palin wants to force her values on women who do not agree with her, and that is the definition of religious extremism.

3. She believes that the war on Iraq is a task from God

Proven false...This was taken out of context from a speech she made at some church where she actually said that she prayed that we would be on God's side, not that the Iraq war was a task from God. Big difference.

Her exact quote: "...That our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God".

She also mentioned that "God's will has to be done" regarding the Alaskan pipleline.

These are all subjective, so I don't see a point in me going further on these issues.

4. She allegedly tried to ban books in the city library (then fired the librarian who refused)

Also blatantly false, not to mention that some of the books on this supposed list were not even in publicaton at the time she was accused of banning them.

Well, we have stories here from the librarian, the local newspaper reporter Paul Stuart, and Palin herself. Of course, we won't really know who's telling the truth. Unless there's an investigation to this, no one will really know.

So we won't really know if Sarah Palin is a kind of leader who favors book censorship.

5. She allegedly pressured the state police chief to fire her former brother-in-law (then fired the chief for refusing)

Still being looked into...However, this policeman tasered a young boy for no apparent reason and also threatened others. We'll see how it turns out, though.

Yes, we'll see how it turns out. Unfortunately, given the current attitude of the Palin's refusing to cooperate in the investigation, we may not find out until she's already elected.

6. Despite her talking points of being transparent, her husband disregarded the subpoena for the investigation on #5 (which makes me wonder if subpoenas are now optional). I think for someone running as VP, I am justified to want to know if she really fired those people who did not do as she said. Her refusal and delay tactics for the investigation is not a good sign of her claimed transparency (aside from being somewhat above the law).

Haven't heard this one before.

Palin Husband ignores subpoena to testify.

7. The McCain/Obama ticket pushed for "kid gloves" treatment on Palin regarding the Oct 2 VP debate, citing that she is inexperienced as a debater (but apparently experienced to become VP). If she ever becomes president, I'm not sure if she can request a "be easy on me" meeting with president Putin.

I don't believe this one for a minute. Sounds like a flat-out lie.

McCain ticket insisted on more controlled VP debate

8. She supported the "bridge to nowhere" in her 2006 campaign then flip-flopped later. Even if the bridge did not materialize, they kept the money for other state ventures. Then had the guts to say in her VP acceptance speech that she said to congress on the bridge "thanks but no thanks". She went ahead with the road leading to the non-existent bridge. Now, Alaska has the most expensive/biggest/longest cul-de-sac.

Yes, she initially supported it but ditched the plan in favor of a ferry system for the town in which it was supposed to be built. As far as keeping the funds for the bridge, the question is, is it legal to do so and were they put to use for projects actually needed in Alaska?

Yes, the re-routing of funds are legal, and very likely beneficial to Alaska though I don't understand why she has to be proud to say to congress "thanks but no thanks" when she still wants the funds anyway. I also don't get why the construction for the road to the bridge had to proceed when the bridge will not be there. Sounds like a waste of lots of money to me.

9. In her VP acceptance speech, she lied that Obama has not written a single bill or reform when in fact Obama wrote over 110 bills as senator.

Obama has sponsored those bills but has he actually WRITTEN all of them or any of them, for that matter?

Read about these:

Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-Proliferation Bill
The Coburn-Obama Transparency Act

Read more here: http://unastronaut.wordpress.com/2008/0 ... lishments/

Bottom line, it sounded to me like Sarah Palin wanted to give the impression that Obama didn't do anything, which to me is a willful lie on her part.

10. I'm not sure how she would be effective if she has 5 kids to take care of (if she can, I'm all praise for her but at this point, I think her family needs her more specially her young born)

Give me a break...Would you say this about a man who has young children at home? This is not even an issue.

Some people think it's an issue (it's a non-issue for me, but I would feel bad for her family). Read about concerns here: http://www.funadvice.com/q/can_a_woman_ ... ul_in_this, like from one poster:

"Joe Biden traveled home every evening to be with his children. Also his two children were young, but not infants.

I see a tremendous difference between Biden and Palin.
Palin has five children, the youngest 5 months old and a special needs child.
As VP she will not be able to commute each night to be with her children.

I have this to say from a previous question.

I have no problem with the fact that Palin's daughter is pregnant. Kids are kids and no matter how you try, they do what they want. Any of us with children could be in Palin's position.

What I have a problem with, and hear me out, is a mother that would subject her un-wed, pregnant daughter to the scrutiny of a national campaign and would decide to run for VP having a young baby with downs syndrome. It is challenging enough to raise a baby when you are traveling all over the country but to try to raise a baby with special needs while traveling all over the country is next to impossible, unless you allow others to raise that child.

As a mother, I have a problem with this. There have been many opportunities in my life that I have turned down because they would have taken me away from my child when he was young. I am a progressive, liberal, intelligent, highly educated woman but with this I take issue. When I gave birth to my two children, one died when very young, I knew that I was making a decision and that my children were a priority, especially while young. A special needs child is exactly that, a child with special needs and a un-wed pregnant young woman doesn't need the added stress of 24/7 reporters following her and reporting on her every movement.

And for those of you who know a little about me, you know that I would feel the same no matter if the mother was a liberal or a conservative."

11. If Sarah Palin fails as VP or president, it will look bad on women and future women candidates (and I'm one of those people who would like to see a women president in my lifetime, but hopefully, one that is elected by virtue of qualification and not on gender).

Does it look bad on men candidates since Bush has failed as President?

Certainly not, but it would likely be not beneficial to future women candidates.

12. She was so comfortable about giving an answer suggesting going to war with Russia. Having made that "of the top her head" answer, I'm not sure if she has a firm understanding of what a war with Russia means to the survival of the planet.

As a NATO member, we are OBLIGATED to go to war if another NATO country is invaded or attacked.

Her tone was devoid of the diplomatic language generally used by U.S. officials when discussing relations with Russia. I am not sure if I'm comfortable with her at the nuke button.

Again, Sarah Palin seems like a really nice lady, but I want an above-average person governing the country.

She's well above average and no less experienced than Obama, for instance, who is the top of ticket on the Democratic side, not VP as she is.[url]

I apply the same criteria for president and VP, since the VP will take over if president is out.

[Barb]

On another note... I wonder if Obama will be bringing his teleprompeter to the debates.

Don't all of these politicians use a teleprompter? I know with 100% certainty that I saw Palin reading off the screen of her teleprompter several times during her nomination acceptance. I found it odd that the cameras would even keep panning to it, because it looks ridiculous.


John from Boston

During large speeches like that, it's not out of the ordinary. Obama is bringing his on the campaign trail though - to use when talking to his own supporters which I find kind of funny.

[conversationpc]

Her response to Charlie Gibson's question about the Bush Doctrine is still very far from any of those different applications or incarnations. At least to me, she appeared clueless about foreign policy. I'll leave it to the others to see for themselves here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z75QSExE0jU

I thought she answered the question fine after Gibson clarified.

From some journalist: She wants to criminalize abortion. She chose to carry a Down syndrome fetus to term after receiving a prenatal diagnosis through amniocentesis. That is her absolute right. But 90 percent of American women who receive the same diagnosis choose to terminate their pregnancies. Palin wants to force her values on women who do not agree with her, and that is the definition of religious extremism.

Nope...People are entitled to their beliefs. ALL legislation is the representation of someone's morality, so to couch it in that phrasing is discrimination in and of itself, in my opinion.

Her exact quote: "...That our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God".

I don't hear any audio on that video but it appears to be the same video I've seen, which cuts off her prior comments which provide the context needed to completely understand what she says.

Well, we have stories here from the librarian, the local newspaper reporter Paul Stuart, and Palin herself. Of course, we won't really know who's telling the truth. Unless there's an investigation to this, no one will really know.

So we won't really know if Sarah Palin is a kind of leader who favors book censorship.

Yes, we do know the truth on this one. Several of the books on the supposed list were not even printed yet, for crying out loud. The list is blatantly false.

Some people think it's an issue (it's a non-issue for me, but I would feel bad for her family). Read about concerns here: http://www.funadvice.com/q/can_a_woman_ ... ul_in_this, like from one poster:

"Joe Biden traveled home every evening to be with his children. Also his two children were young, but not infants.

She's got a husband to help out...Biden didn't have his wife any longer, unfortunately.

What I have a problem with, and hear me out, is a mother that would subject her un-wed, pregnant daughter to the scrutiny of a national campaign and would decide to run for VP having a young baby with downs syndrome. It is challenging enough to raise a baby when you are traveling all over the country but to try to raise a baby with special needs while traveling all over the country is next to impossible, unless you allow others to raise that child.

No, it's not impossible. I know of parents with several special needs children to manager to do it.

[Enigma869]

During large speeches like that, it's not out of the ordinary. Obama is bringing his on the campaign trail though - to use when talking to his own supporters which I find kind of funny.

It doesn't surprise me one bit, Barb. All of these politicians (and I include both sides) are like fucking robots up there. They're like a sucky comedian who keeps telling the same tired jokes, OVER and OVER again! I've heard Palin use the line about taking on "The old boys network" EVERY single time she has stepped in front of a microphone. Just in the past week, I've heard Obama use the line about "The old boys club is a staff meeting in the McCain camp" at least 5 times. Different cities, same tired lines! These guys and gal need new material or new speech writers! It's almost as if they don't realize the stump speeches are played on the news, EVERY night, across the country! One more piece of evidence that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to be a politician!


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

During large speeches like that, it's not out of the ordinary. Obama is bringing his on the campaign trail though - to use when talking to his own supporters which I find kind of funny.

It doesn't surprise me one bit, Barb. All of these politicians (and I include both sides) are like fucking robots up there. They're like a sucky comedian who keeps telling the same tired jokes, OVER and OVER again! I've heard Palin use the line about taking on "The old boys network" EVERY single time she has stepped in front of a microphone. Just in the past week, I've heard Obama use the line about "The old boys club is a staff meeting in the McCain camp" at least 5 times. Different cities, same tired lines! These guys and gal need new material or new speech writers! It's almost as if they don't realize the stump speeches are played on the news, EVERY night, across the country! One more piece of evidence that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to be a politician!


John from Boston

The thing that irritates me about politicians on either side is that they don't write their own darn speeches. I can't imagine Abraham Lincoln, for instance, pawning off the Gettysburg Address.

[Enigma869]

Yes, we do know the truth on this one. Several of the books on the supposed list were not even printed yet, for crying out loud. The list is blatantly false.

I haven't heard of any specific books that Palin asked to have banned, but the story of her inquiring about having books banned does not appear to be false. Many people have corroborated this story and even Palin's answer to Charlie Gibson on the issue makes one believe that this isn't just pie in the sky stuff. In the end, it doesn't sound like any books were ever banned, but it does sound like when she was mayor, she wanted to see how receptive the town librartian would be to her suggestion! Here is an article from the "Anchorage Daily News" on this story...


http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

Yes, we do know the truth on this one. Several of the books on the supposed list were not even printed yet, for crying out loud. The list is blatantly false.

I haven't heard of any specific books that Palin asked to have banned, but the story of her inquiring about having books banned does not appear to be false. Many people have corroborated this story and even Palin's answer to Charlie Gibson on the issue makes one believe that this isn't just pie in the sky stuff. In the end, it doesn't sound like any books were ever banned, but it does sound like when she was mayor, she wanted to see how receptive the town librartian would be to her suggestion! Here is an article from the "Anchorage Daily News" on this story...


http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html


John from Boston

Any time I've heard her answer the question, she was pretty definitive that it was untrue that she tried to have books banned. Until it's proven otherwise and considering what else I've heard about the books on the supposed list, I'll continue to believe her position.

[grimlocked]

Yes, we do know the truth on this one. Several of the books on the supposed list were not even printed yet, for crying out loud. The list is blatantly false.

I haven't heard of any specific books that Palin asked to have banned, but the story of her inquiring about having books banned does not appear to be false. Many people have corroborated this story and even Palin's answer to Charlie Gibson on the issue makes one believe that this isn't just pie in the sky stuff. In the end, it doesn't sound like any books were ever banned, but it does sound like when she was mayor, she wanted to see how receptive the town librartian would be to her suggestion! Here is an article from the "Anchorage Daily News" on this story...


http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html


John from Boston

I agree. From my research on this topic, it seems like the "where there's smoke, there's fire" is TRUE.

My take is that she did try to ban the books then fired the librarian who refused. Then with the backlash and the people's support for the librarian, she backed off. The librarian wouldn't want to talk about it anymore and I think she has since moved to Fairbanks.

I do agree that some people exaggerated the list of books that are to be banned (adding to the original three).

[Lula]

one day Sarah Palin will be the POTUS, probably in 2012-2020

[Lula]

Random thought from an independent.....Democrats are said to be socialists ...but with the bailouts of AIG, etc....what is that but Republican socialism.

pssst...dirty little secret....just between you and me.....

The Pubbies just shut down the biggest Dem piggybanks that ever existed. See Freddie and Fannie. The Dems can't/won't scream about it because their actions at Freddie and Fannie nearly brought about a Depression and they know it.

Don't tell anyone else please, this is a secret.

Psssstttt.....The Republicans played a part in it, too.

thank you! both are at fault.

[RedWingFan]

P.S. Obama is now AHEAD in the polls. Palin's popularity is SEVERELY waning among non-conservatives.


Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:27 pm

Did you just now come to the realization that Obama is black? Didn't I just tell you about the well documented "Bradley/ Wilder effect" a week or so ago? Remember me telling you that Obama would need at LEAST a 10-12 pt. lead in the polls come election day or he's toast and you claimed it was wishful thinking and implying that I made it up?

OK. Here's where you're wrong. Over 40% of white Americans likely will not vote for him BECAUSE he is black.

Twelve percent of the population is African-American. They vote for Democrats at a clip of over 90% every time. Now this year, 95% of them are voting for the Dems. If you do the math, that means that they're getting a grand old bump of less than one percent nationally. Even if 20% of the white population will vote for him because he's black - again, this is beyond unlikely - if 40% of the rest of the populace will NOT vote for him BECAUSE of that same fact, then no, he is NOT getting elected because he's black...he's NOT getting elected because he's black.

[RedWingFan]

“You all know that you hold this election in your hands,” Sen. Russ Feingold, a Democrat who said he worked on ethics legislation with Obama, told a crowd of about 6,000 cheering Obama fans in the arena next to Lambeau Field. “We just barely won this state for Al Gore in 2000 and we just barely won this state for John Kerry in 2004.”

Don't you mean "Lambert Field"?

[Lula]

i don't question the support obama/biden have shown for women. i'm also glad to see the gop finally do something exciting . of course palin brought in some female support. i'd support her too if i agreed with her on any issue. the shoot wolves from the air is pretty bad, where's the sport in that? dthe big one is equal pay for equal work, which mccain has not supported. why is it that this is even an issue? here we are in 2008 and there is still a discrepency in pay, go figure

[RedWingFan]

here we are in 2008 and there is still a discrepency in pay, go figure

If this was true wouldn't it make sense for these evil, greedy, businesses to hire all women to reduce labor costs and line their own greedy pockets with more profit?

[Enigma869]

the shoot wolves from the air is pretty bad, where's the sport in that?

While Palin's practice of killing innocent animals may endear her to some male voters (I'm not one of them), most women I know, view hunting as quite barbaric! I suspect that is going to lose her some votes, with the estrogen crowd


John from Boston

[grimlocked]

here we are in 2008 and there is still a discrepency in pay, go figure

If this was true wouldn't it make sense for these evil, greedy, businesses to hire all women to reduce labor costs and line their own greedy pockets with more profit?

From where I work, there's a lot of female employees who probably earn more than what I earn (as a male). There's a few bosses above them who are males who probably earn more than them. My point is that in an organizational structure, you probably have scattered men and women from top to bottom. I have no reason to believe (at least where I work) that those women earn less than what men in those same positions might earn.

[grimlocked]

the shoot wolves from the air is pretty bad, where's the sport in that?

While Palin's practice of killing innocent animals may endear her to some male voters (I'm not one of them), most women I know, view hunting as quite barbaric! I suspect that is going to lose her some votes, with the estrogen crowd

John from Boston

While I don't enjoy and I'm not into hunting animals for sport, I can understand if some people do it.

For me, as long as the animal is not endangered and the animal dies a quick death (as humane as possible) and the meat of the animal is consumed for food, I'm OK with people hunting them. Otherwise, seems barbaric to me (but that's my opinion).