Valory and Smith Sued by Schon and Cain Mar. 2020

[Journey/Survivor]

Ok, people...there is NO WAY that Andrew would tweet it and POST IT with the complaint and evidence if this was some kind of so-called publicity stunt. WONT.HAPPEN! And the lawsuit would be THROWN OUT OF COURT if this was some kind of so-called publicity stunt. THIS IS REAL. It happened, is happening and will continue to happen because I sincerely doubt that this lawsuit is over. I am waiting for a counter-suit from Ross and Smith.

This is real. This lawsuit is true. Legal documents are not drafted for publicity stunts. Not with these cats. These dudes are SERIOUS and have ALWAYS been serious about the Benjamins. Make no mistake about it.

People need to wake up to how greedy this world is. When there are millions of dollars involved, big companies, organizations and law firms, etc, etc fake all kinds of shit.

But most people are too busy playing Candy Crush or some shit like that than to research everything that's going on right now, and what's about to go down soon. And that last comment of mine doesn't have anything to do with Journey.

Yes, sadly it is all about the Benjamins for them.

[Journey/Survivor]

Please, oh please share with us exactly what they would gain by making this all up and creating a publicity stunt. I'm anxiously waiting.

You honestly think airing the band's dirty laundry and financial arrangements, while also announcing that their longtime bassist and drummer have been fired for trying to steal the band's name somehow increases ticket sales? Do you even read what is taking place on Facebook regarding this mess?

Here's one quote that I picked random.

"Sad to see one of my favorite bands end like this".

No one, and I mean no one with half a brain thinks this is a net positive. The die hard fans, like us, know all about the drama around Journey. Most people do not. So they don't look at it like a new beginning with new members. They look at like a death nail, or they just don't give a damn.

Among other things, if fans believe this fake drama they will think 'this is my last chance to see Journey before they breakup', and they will then go to the shows. As the saying goes, there's no such thing as bad publicity. Especially in this day and age where TMZ rules.

[Journey/Survivor]

Steve Smith has always seemed like he's a really nice guy. He's one of the few members that no-one had ever said anything bad about.

He has been more interested in playing Jazz than he is in making huge money in Journey. He had stayed in Journey longer this time around than he had intended to when he rejoined the band. He has wanted to get back to Jazz again.

Valory is probably ready to retire now.

Like many of you have said, did Valory and Smith really think that they could get away with this "coup?" No, they didn't! It's not real.

[perryfan61]

"As I've mentioned before on here, when Journey was first trying to rebuild and touring the corn dog county fair festival, Smitty had little interest in rejoining. Now that the band has been succesfully rebuilt, people are coming for their undeserved share of the pie."

They only asked Smitty back because Deen was out. It's not like they were begging him to come back before that. He had "little interest in rejoining"because he wasn't even asked to rejoin.
And even if you take this view of Smitty, it still does not explain their treatment of Ross, who HAS been with them from the beginning, except for the ROR era, which was not his choice. I don't consider his wanting a better share to be "undeserved ". He stuck it out with them during the rebuilding, he should be shown some respect for that.

[The_Noble_Cause]

They only asked Smitty back because Deen was out. It's not like they were begging him to come back before that. He had "little interest in rejoining"because he wasn't even asked to rejoin.

Wrong. In an interview discussed on this very message board, Steve Smith said he had been asked occasionally to re-join. My guess is they would ask him each time Deen had a rehab stint.

And even if you take this view of Smitty, it still does not explain their treatment of Ross, who HAS been with them from the beginning, except for the ROR era, which was not his choice. I don't consider his wanting a better share to be "undeserved ". He stuck it out with them during the rebuilding, he should be shown some respect for that.

If Ross or Smitty wanted a better share, their agents should have negotiated for more money. You don't forge your boss's signature and attempt a coup.

[Monker]

Steve Smith has always seemed like he's a really nice guy. He's one of the few members that no-one had ever said anything bad about.

He has been more interested in playing Jazz than he is in making huge money in Journey. He had stayed in Journey longer this time around than he had intended to when he rejoined the band. He has wanted to get back to Jazz again.

Valory is probably ready to retire now.

Like many of you have said, did Valory and Smith really think that they could get away with this "coup?" No, they didn't! It's not real.

After looking over everything, this is sort of where I am landing on things, too.

First of all, I see zero evidence that they were trying to take over Journey. They only show that they took Jonathan's and Neal's position on Nightmare - with everybody agreeing to it.

They ADMIT in the documents that Ross and Steve Smith have been looking towards retirement.

To believe this, you have to believe that Ross, Steve Smith, Hierbie Herbert, and Steve Perry want to control Journey.

To believe this, you have to believe that not only did Ross and Steve Smith not understand that Elmo held the Journey name, but also Herbie and Steve Perry.

That is why this all looks like a joke to me. What Neal is saying through his attorney seems unbelievable to me.

I think it is realistic that Ross wants to retire. I think it is realistic that Steve Smith wants out of Journey. i doubt he ever wanted to be a permanent member. So, it is realistic to me that Herbie, and even Steve Perry, were open to the idea of them joining the board at Nightmare. Herbie has been outspoken on how Neal has no sense for business and he doesn't exactly get along with Jonathan...so I can see him wanting them out and Steve Smith and Ross in. And, who knows if there has been issues with them at Nightmare.

To me, this is looking more and more like Neal getting pissed off for what happened at Nightmare and suing them as a revenge thing. They are saying they were unlawfully added to the board at Nightmare, but that seems sketchy and arguable. I doubt Herbie and all of their lawyers would do this if it was unlawful.

Finally, I think many here are judging things after only hearing one side of this story. I would like to hear Ross and Steve Smith speak....and ESPECIALLY Herbie and MAYBE Steve Perry. I have a feeling they will tell a completely different story than "Yeah, we want to take over Journey so we can get paid more."

[Onestepper]

"Hey guys, I have a great idea for selling tickets on our next tour. Let's say that you two, Ross and Steve, tried to steal the Journey name away from me, Cain and Perry, put out a fake law suit, and announce that you two got fired". "That way, people will pay even more to see half a band play one last time".

"Neal, that a is a great idea". It will increase our revenue while destroying both of our reputations. Why didn't we think of that earlier"?

Some of you conspiracy heads need some serious counseling.

[The_Noble_Cause]

After looking over everything, this is sort of where I am landing on things, too.

First of all, I see zero evidence that they were trying to take over Journey. They only show that they took Jonathan's and Neal's position on Nightmare - with everybody agreeing to it.

They ADMIT in the documents that Ross and Steve Smith have been looking towards retirement.

To believe this, you have to believe that Ross, Steve Smith, Hierbie Herbert, and Steve Perry want to control Journey.

To believe this, you have to believe that not only did Ross and Steve Smith not understand that Elmo held the Journey name, but also Herbie and Steve Perry.

That is why this all looks like a joke to me. What Neal is saying through his attorney seems unbelievable to me.

I think it is realistic that Ross wants to retire. I think it is realistic that Steve Smith wants out of Journey. i doubt he ever wanted to be a permanent member. So, it is realistic to me that Herbie, and even Steve Perry, were open to the idea of them joining the board at Nightmare. Herbie has been outspoken on how Neal has no sense for business and he doesn't exactly get along with Jonathan...so I can see him wanting them out and Steve Smith and Ross in. And, who knows if there has been issues with them at Nightmare.

To me, this is looking more and more like Neal getting pissed off for what happened at Nightmare and suing them as a revenge thing. They are saying they were unlawfully added to the board at Nightmare, but that seems sketchy and arguable. I doubt Herbie and all of their lawyers would do this if it was unlawful.

Finally, I think many here are judging things after only hearing one side of this story. I would like to hear Ross and Steve Smith speak....and ESPECIALLY Herbie and MAYBE Steve Perry. I have a feeling they will tell a completely different story than "Yeah, we want to take over Journey so we can get paid more."

Cain is also a plaintiff here - not just Neal. The shareholder meeting resulting in the power grab was never approved by Jon Cain. According to the legal team, his e-signature was never approved. How do you convene a meeting of the board of directors and the shareholders, when two out of the three directors are against the meeting?

[onmyjrny]

"Hey guys, I have a great idea for selling tickets on our next tour. Let's say that you two, Ross and Steve, tried to steal the Journey name away from me, Cain and Perry, put out a fake law suit, and announce that you two got fired". "That way, people will pay even more to see half a band play one last time".

"Neal, that a is a great idea". It will increase our revenue while destroying both of our reputations. Why didn't we think of that earlier"?

Some of you conspiracy heads need some serious counseling.

"Hey Smitty"
"What, Ross?"
"I've got a great idea for our retirement. We stage a coup and steal the Journey name away from Neal and Jon so they have to pay us lots of money and we don't have to tour anymore."
"Great idea Ross! Maybe we can call Perry and Herbie and get them to agree to it."

Do you think this is any more likely?

The person that needs to be contacted to get to the bottom is Herbie. He has been known to speak his mind openly.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Do you think this is any more likely?

The person that needs to be contacted to get to the bottom is Herbie. He has been known to speak his mind openly.

Yes, I do. With Perry getting paid yet not having to perform, I'm sure other members also want guaranteed touring income, without actually having to do the work.

[Eric]

I would like to hear Ross and Steve Smith speak....and ESPECIALLY Herbie and MAYBE Steve Perry.

Love the "MAYBE"! LOL

Here ya go: "I think a lot about touring."

[Eric]

What if: Mr P brought SS and the other guy (whatever his name is) into a side project. Journey as it has been known has been quartered and maimed. I'd listen.

What if 3 guys who don't want to record and heavily tour as Journey got together and worked?

We can play the "what if" game until the end of time. What if Schon wasn't an egotistical dick? Seriously though, everyone involved voted against Schon and Cain. That speaks volumes.

My point was that 3 guys who aren't best buds and don't want to do Journey anymore aren't going to tour together,

[onmyjrny]

Yes, I do. With Perry getting paid yet not having to perform, I'm sure other members also want guaranteed touring income, without actually having to do the work.

I do agree with you there. And I think that considering the length of time they were with the band they deserve some sort of "pension" when they retire. Nothing compared to what Perry gets but something.

But I just don't think anyone with an ounce of sense would go about getting that by this means.

And having worked as a paralegal, i would have been booted out the door pretty quickly if I had submitted a draft of a complaint with some of the language that is in that one. It does sound like Neal wrote part of it as he was throwing a hissyfit.

[Marabelle]

I never mentioned the word “tour”.

[ebake02]

Do you think this is any more likely?

The person that needs to be contacted to get to the bottom is Herbie. He has been known to speak his mind openly.

Yes, I do. With Perry getting paid yet not having to perform, I'm sure other members also want guaranteed touring income, without actually having to do the work.

I see their point but the difference is Perry co-wrote the vast majority of the songs on Journey’s set list every night unlike the other two who simply played on those songs. Ross might only the only one who has a legitimate claim for a slice of the pie being he’s a founding member and has been there for the band’s entire existence aside from the Raised on Radio years.

[Monker]

Yes, I do. With Perry getting paid yet not having to perform, I'm sure other members also want guaranteed touring income, without actually having to do the work.

I do agree with you there. And I think that considering the length of time they were with the band they deserve some sort of "pension" when they retire. Nothing compared to what Perry gets but something.

But I just don't think anyone with an ounce of sense would go about getting that by this means.

And having worked as a paralegal, i would have been booted out the door pretty quickly if I had submitted a draft of a complaint with some of the language that is in that one. It does sound like Neal wrote part of it as he was throwing a hissyfit.

That is exactly what I think, too.

I am thinking this had more to do with control of Nightmare than it does with Journey...and Neal simply did not like getting shut out.

[Monker]

Cain is also a plaintiff here - not just Neal. The shareholder meeting resulting in the power grab was never approved by Jon Cain. According to the legal team, his e-signature was never approved. How do you convene a meeting of the board of directors and the shareholders, when two out of the three directors are against the meeting?

I already said, "They are saying they were unlawfully added to the board at Nightmare, but that seems sketchy and arguable. I doubt Herbie and all of their lawyers would do this if it was unlawful."

Where you read in the documents that Cain did not approve, in the very previous sentence it says that he purportedly did approve. I doubt very much that Herbie and the lawyers would have proceeded with this if they did not have a signed document. What I think most likely happened is that Jonathan signed it, and later regretted it and wanted to take it back.

[Monker]

Do you think this is any more likely?

The person that needs to be contacted to get to the bottom is Herbie. He has been known to speak his mind openly.

Yes, I do. With Perry getting paid yet not having to perform, I'm sure other members also want guaranteed touring income, without actually having to do the work.

I see their point but the difference is Perry co-wrote the vast majority of the songs on Journey’s set list every night unlike the other two who simply played on those songs. Ross might only the only one who has a legitimate claim for a slice of the pie being he’s a founding member and has been there for the band’s entire existence aside from the Raised on Radio years.

No, the difference is that Perry kept his share of the band after ROR. All this BS of songwriting credits and creative contributions is irrelevant. What matters is who owned the Journey name. In fact, I would like to know the arrangement prior to ROR and if Ross and Steve Smith were vested in Journey....and how they lost it. Perry/Schon/Cain should not have been able to just take it from them any more than Schon/Cain could take it from Perry following TBF.

[Lora]

I see zero evidence that they were trying to take over Journey. They only show that they took Jonathan's and Neal's position on Nightmare - with everybody agreeing to it.

They ADMIT in the documents that Ross and Steve Smith have been looking towards retirement. I think it is realistic that Ross wants to retire. I think it is realistic that Steve Smith wants out of Journey.

I think many here are judging things after only hearing one side of this story. I would like to hear Ross and Steve Smith speak."

Sounds reasonable. Makes sense not to make judgements until more details are revealed (if they ever are).

[The_Noble_Cause]

Cain is also a plaintiff here - not just Neal. The shareholder meeting resulting in the power grab was never approved by Jon Cain. According to the legal team, his e-signature was never approved. How do you convene a meeting of the board of directors and the shareholders, when two out of the three directors are against the meeting?

I already said, "They are saying they were unlawfully added to the board at Nightmare, but that seems sketchy and arguable. I doubt Herbie and all of their lawyers would do this if it was unlawful."

Where you read in the documents that Cain did not approve, in the very previous sentence it says that he purportedly did approve. I doubt very much that Herbie and the lawyers would have proceeded with this if they did not have a signed document. What I think most likely happened is that Jonathan signed it, and later regretted it and wanted to take it back.

There's really nothing ambiguous about this. The documents state: "However, Cain did not approve of the notices and did not sign them."
If this is false, it will be found out during the discovery process. There's no way Cain would be co-plaintiff unless there was a real case here.

[Monker]

There's really nothing ambiguous about this. The documents state: "However, Cain did not approve of the notices and did not sign them."
If this is false, it will be found out during the discovery process. There's no way Cain would be co-plaintiff unless there was a real case here.

And, the sentence prior to this states, "The Shareholder and Board Notices were purportedly issued and signed via an electronic signature by Cain" So, you have one side claiming it was signed and the other claiming it wasn't. So, yes, it IS "ambiguous".

Yes, there is a reason Cain would be a plaintiff in this, regardless of the evidence. He and Neal were ousted from their roles in Nightmare and they believe it threatens their income from Journey. So, yes, I believe it is possible that Jonathan signed these letters and then later regretted it and said he did not approve.

[The_Noble_Cause]

And, the sentence prior to this states, "The Shareholder and Board Notices were purportedly issued and signed via an electronic signature by Cain" So, you have one side claiming it was signed and the other claiming it wasn't. So, yes, it IS "ambiguous".

Neither side disputes the fact that the notice has a signature. The notice itself is included with the complaint and Cain's e-signature is quite visible. The question is, who put it there? As I already said, let the discovery process play it out.

[Eric]

FYI:

No changes on the official site:
https://www.journeymusic.com/pages/theband

[The_Noble_Cause]

FYI:

No changes on the official site:
https://www.journeymusic.com/pages/theband

They've always been band with that website stuff. Pretty sure the current website design is still mostly a leftover from one of Neal's ex gfs. For what it's worth, Neal is tweeting pics now of just him, Cain, and AP saying things like "we together are going to reshape the mother ship and bring you something special."

[Arkansas]

Maybe there's been something brewing for awhile now. Current events kinda give this tweet whole new meaning.
https://twitter.com/nealschonmusic/stat ... 7336404992


later~

[Journey/Survivor]

"Hey guys, I have a great idea for selling tickets on our next tour. Let's say that you two, Ross and Steve, tried to steal the Journey name away from me, Cain and Perry, put out a fake law suit, and announce that you two got fired". "That way, people will pay even more to see half a band play one last time".

"Neal, that a is a great idea". It will increase our revenue while destroying both of our reputations. Why didn't we think of that earlier"?

Some of you conspiracy heads need some serious counseling.

This new scam that Journey are pulling for publicity will NOT destroy their reputations as musicians. And Schon and Cain already destroyed their reputations as people a while back.

Some people need to wake up to how the world really works!!!

[Jeremey]

This is all very interesting to me, stopped by MR.com after hearing this news on FB just to see what the prevailing internet opinion is. That's when I saw the recent management change to a guy who's big claim to fame is building investment funds based on acquiring royalty rights to very valuable evergreen catalogs. Huh. Interesting timing.

No one can know what has really happened here unless the other parties involved come out publicly with their side of the story and then show the evidence and testimony they have.

My thoughts for what they're worth is that my thoughts about Ross Valory and Tim Jorstadt in particular is that they are absolutely not the kind of people who would underhandedly plan a "coup" to take control of Journey. Quite the opposite. Steve Smith hasn't needed Journey for his career in over 30 years, so that also seems suspect. And anything that would bring Steve Perry and Herbie Herbert together on the same page is definitely a remarkable occurrence, and so I have to guess that maybe, some people who have exhibited paranoid and "they're out to get me" behavior in the past may have interpreted certain actions in that frame of reference and taken extreme action, perhaps influenced by other concurrent business things brewing in the background.

One thing for sure is, I don't think there's anyway in hell that this is a publicity stunt or a hoax. I think it's very sad, very real, and not surprising in the least. But I wish the best for everyone involved. Unfortunately the music business is a nasty, messy industry and some rise above it, and some learn to work it, and many (most) end up getting chewed up and spit out.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This is all very interesting to me, stopped by MR.com after hearing this news on FB just to see what the prevailing internet opinion is. That's when I saw the recent management change to a guy who's big claim to fame is building investment funds based on acquiring royalty rights to very valuable evergreen catalogs. Huh. Interesting timing.

No one can know what has really happened here unless the other parties involved come out publicly with their side of the story and then show the evidence and testimony they have.

My thoughts for what they're worth is that my thoughts about Ross Valory and Tim Jorstadt in particular is that they are absolutely not the kind of people who would underhandedly plan a "coup" to take control of Journey. Quite the opposite. Steve Smith hasn't needed Journey for his career in over 30 years, so that also seems suspect. And anything that would bring Steve Perry and Herbie Herbert together on the same page is definitely a remarkable occurrence, and so I have to guess that maybe, some people who have exhibited paranoid and "they're out to get me" behavior in the past may have interpreted certain actions in that frame of reference and taken extreme action, perhaps influenced by other concurrent business things brewing in the background.

One thing for sure is, I don't think there's anyway in hell that this is a publicity stunt or a hoax. I think it's very sad, and not surprising in the least. But I wish the best for everyone involved. Unfortunately the music business is a nasty, messy industry and some rise above it, and some learn to work it, and many (most) end up getting chewed up and spit out.

Hi Jeremey. Good to see you around here.

Who is Tim Jorstadt? Maybe I missed his connection in this.

The idea that the firing/lawsuit is motivated by Neal's paranoia ignores Cain being co-plaintiff.

[Jeremey]

Hi Jeremey. Good to see you around here.

Who is Tim Jorstadt? Maybe I missed his connection in this.

The idea that the firing/lawsuit is motivated by Neal's paranoia ignores Cain being co-plaintiff.

Hey buddy...

Tim is not named in the lawsuit, but he is the one mentioned as the "CFO" added to the board of directors I think. He is basically Journey's longtime CPA and handles all their books. But to buy into the claims in the lawsuit, you'd have to believe he (as much as anyone else) would know about the "coup" as far as the restructuring of the board (having knowledge of the "coup"). As far as paranoia etc that's not meant to be a specific accusation in this instance, just an observation of past and well documented behavior on Twitter etc. I've seen people talk themselves up into a "reality" when being inside bubbles of yes-men/women, etc when the "real" reality may be quite different from what the "worked up" reality is.

[JohnH]

Is every single thing in the world now “ not true “ a conspiracy “ more than one guy” . What kind of morons would stage something this serious? This is REAL. I’ve seen a guy on FB blame 100,000 sick people and 3000 deaths ( from a virus from China) on a US political party . The whole world is losing it.