The 2008 US Presidential Election Thread

[7 Wishes]

are even when the government has shown repeatedly they shouldn't be put in charge of a whole lot.

You're right. Deregulation of the oil, mortgage, and banking industries - all Republican precepts force-fed by temporary majorities in the House and Senate and Bush - has worked out beautifully.

[conversationpc]

are even when the government has shown repeatedly they shouldn't be put in charge of a whole lot.

You're right. Deregulation of the oil, mortgage, and banking industries - all Republican precepts force-fed by temporary majorities in the House and Senate and Bush - has worked out beautifully.

Did Democrats vote for the de-regulation? I do know this is something President Clinton wanted and allowed to go through. Also consider that many of the top recipients of lobbying money from these companies were Democrats, including people like Chris Dodd and Barack Obama.

[RossValoryRocks]

are even when the government has shown repeatedly they shouldn't be put in charge of a whole lot.

You're right. Deregulation of the oil, mortgage, and banking industries - all Republican precepts force-fed by temporary majorities in the House and Senate and Bush - has worked out beautifully.

Did Democrats vote for the de-regulation?

They did...7Wishes just can't get it around the ole brain pan that BOTH parties are to blame, because that would mean HIS side is equally at fault here.

90-8 was the vote to allow banks and insurance companies to become investment houses, and the legislation was signed by Clinton...but in 7wishes little world Democrats are never to blame for anything!

[RossValoryRocks]

are even when the government has shown repeatedly they shouldn't be put in charge of a whole lot.

You're right. Deregulation of the oil, mortgage, and banking industries - all Republican precepts force-fed by temporary majorities in the House and Senate and Bush - has worked out beautifully.

You know they didn't have enough votes to override a Clinton veto...so why didn't he veto the bill???

Over regulation is as bad a being completely unregulated.

You really need to learn more about economics.

Oh and BOTH sides are to blame, Democrats and Republicans...oh yeah...and the lone voice crying in the wilderness about how messed up this all was becoming was John McCain.

Enjoy being snarky about the republicans, but face it's really the Republicrats and Demopublicans now. The parties are so close on so many issues, at least the politicians in those parties are that it doesn't much matter anymore. They line their pockets while we passively sit back and let it happen. We deserve what is coming to us for being so complacent and actually thinking these politicians actually give a damn about us.

[iceberg]

are even when the government has shown repeatedly they shouldn't be put in charge of a whole lot.

You're right. Deregulation of the oil, mortgage, and banking industries - all Republican precepts force-fed by temporary majorities in the House and Senate and Bush - has worked out beautifully.

You know they didn't have enough votes to override a Clinton veto...so why didn't he veto the bill???

Over regulation is as bad a being completely unregulated.

You really need to learn more about economics.

Oh and BOTH sides are to blame, Democrats and Republicans...oh yeah...and the lone voice crying in the wilderness about how messed up this all was becoming was John McCain.

Enjoy being snarky about the republicans, but face it's really the Republicrats and Demopublicans now. The parties are so close on so many issues, at least the politicians in those parties are that it doesn't much matter anymore. They line their pockets while we passively sit back and let it happen. We deserve what is coming to us for being so complacent and actually thinking these politicians actually give a damn about us.

note to self - read more from this guy.

[7 Wishes]

I never said the Democrats weren't partly responsible for the mortgage crisis.

However, the final bill Clinton signed into law was a compromise - one of his strong points, for better or worse - which allowed for SOME regulation of the industry. The first bill signed by the House and Congress (which he vetoed) would have been FAR more disastrous.

The Republicans and the current Administration are almost FULLY responsible for the deregulation of the oil industry, which has allowed speculators to artificially drive up the cost - a HUGE factor in why many American families are facing foreclosures.

[conversationpc]

The Republicans and the current Administration are almost FULLY responsible for the deregulation of the oil industry, which has allowed speculators to artificially drive up the cost - a HUGE factor in why many American families are facing foreclosures.

It isn't set it stone that it's because of the speculators that the price of oil rose so drastically. There are multiple factors, including increased demand, peak oil, the destabilization of the Middle East (not just in Iraq), the falling value of the dollar, the rising value of the Euro, etc., etc.

[iceberg]

I never said the Democrats weren't partly responsible for the mortgage crisis.

However, the final bill Clinton signed into law was a compromise - one of his strong points, for better or worse - which allowed for SOME regulation of the industry. The first bill signed by the House and Congress (which he vetoed) would have been FAR more disastrous.

The Republicans and the current Administration are almost FULLY responsible for the deregulation of the oil industry, which has allowed speculators to artificially drive up the cost - a HUGE factor in why many American families are facing foreclosures.

so how could regulation in the US stop china from speculating and buying oil left and right for their own industrial revolution? they want it, "X" amount is available, it goes up.

just another point to consider. no one point is responsible for all this no matter how many times it's pointed to in anger.

[RossValoryRocks]

The Republicans and the current Administration are almost FULLY responsible for the deregulation of the oil industry, which has allowed speculators to artificially drive up the cost - a HUGE factor in why many American families are facing foreclosures.

Bullshit.

#1 The speculators have nothing to do with oil company deregulation. Speculators buy oil at a lower price, because they buy the oil there is less of it out on the market, therefore the price goes up. Find me anything (non-biased please) that supports your assertion and I will gladly eat crow.

#2 The speculating was done mostly on the basis of a falling dollar which allows comodities to become safe havens. Gold has gone up dramatically as well.

#3 How do oil prices have one damn thing to do with the housing market? So many people are facing foreclosures because of their own stupidity in getting a mortgage they couldn't afford and shady lenders who got away with getting people these loans, and the stupid investment banks that bought and sold the securitized mortgages. They are the ones to blame!

You are really lost now. I grew up in the oil industry, I can tell you that while they make a TON of money by anyones measure they pay a ton in taxes and support a ton of people with jobs right here in the US.

But go ahead and add a "windfall profits" tax like Obama wants...get ready for $6/gal gasoline or even higher.

You do not understand the economics behind what is going on right now, neither do I, hell even the supposed "experts" are a dumbfounded, but some basic tennets of what you postulate here are absurd.

[Enigma869]

isn't it a tad strange to say you don't put your way of life on anyone then tout you allow gay marriages as if the other states should because it's "right" back to back?

Listen fuckhead...I never once said that any other state should allow gay marriage! I simply said that I'm proud to be from a state that treats all people equally! I happen to be disgustingly heterosexual and love women more than I probably should! I simply don't think it's the government's business to decide who people should spend their lives with! If the Jesus freaks want to congregate on Sunday mornings and talk about how "sinful" it is for such activities to go on, more power to them. I'm sure the gay people will leave them alone, so long as they reciprocate!


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

Executive Order 12892

http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/FHLaws/EXO12892.cfm

Yeah, nice job Mr. Clinton.

[iceberg]

isn't it a tad strange to say you don't put your way of life on anyone then tout you allow gay marriages as if the other states should because it's "right" back to back?

Listen fuckhead...I never once said that any other state should allow gay marriage! I simply said that I'm proud to be from a state that treats all people equally! I happen to be disgustingly heterosexual and love women more than I probably should! I simply don't think it's the government's business to decide who people should spend their lives with! If the Jesus freaks want to congregate on Sunday mornings and talk about how "sinful" it is for such activities to go on, more power to them. I'm sure the gay people will leave them alone, so long as they reciprocate!

John from Boston

fyi - i don't care who you bone either. be gay if it makes you happy. get married if you want to. don't hit on me cause i'm not gay and we're fine in this world. but for someone who preaches tolerance of other views and not forcing your ways upon someone, i sure made "fuckhead" quickly for just asking about it, huh?

i also don't think it's the governments business either, but there are issues to sort through and respect on both sides to appreciate.

didn't take me long in here to find the person who shouts tolerance the most, as usual, has the least.

fuckhead out.

[iceberg]

didn't take me long in here to find the person who shouts tolerance the most, as usual, has the least.

condescending, arrogant and liberal seem to go together for some reason.

it's all good. wasn't out to be insulting just understand a mindset more. some people are open to talking about it, some are not. i dove in and took my chances and got fuckheaded. it's ok. it's a brutal world at times, ya know? but i can't just say i wanna know more through patiences, i have to do it, even when, especially when, it could get personal.

my 'tone' was easy to mix up. easy to see some possible 'bait' in there but no sense in arguing with someone over something i'm just not that passionate about. if i'm the bad guy, i've been there before i suppose. it's just ironic to me for someone to preach tolerance and not pushing your views on others then pushing your views as for why you're "better" (for lack of a better and less potentially insulting word) - i wanted to know / understand more.

hoped for more, got about what i expected.

[Enigma869]

Glad to see you recognize I am omnipotent!

It comes through in every post

Excuse me...you are a tree hugging, tofu eating, typical Massachusetts Liberal!

Tofu sucks and I'm definitely not a "tree hugger"!

And you most certainly want to impose your way of living on people.

This couldn't be further from the truth. I honestly don't care how anyone lives and never have, so long as they are not breaking any laws or attempting to force their belief system on someone else!

You want all people to accept gay marriage

This is partially true. While I'm certainly not on any crusade to make the world accept gay marriage, I think it's absurd that people who are homosexual aren't entitled to the same rights as those of us who are heterosexual. To me, it's no different than denying black people equal rights or any other minority group. It's racism in a different costume, as far as I'm concerned!

you want all people to accept government run health care even when the government has shown repeatedly they shouldn't be put in charge of a whole lot.

Are you suggesting that privately run health care is working in this country? If you seriously believe that the health care system in this country isn't totally fucked up, then you're in the minority! The truth of the matter is that I'm not necessarily an advocate for government run health care. I simply brought up the point that if The Commonwealth of Massachusetts can pull it off, so can the federal government! I have no problem saying that I'm not quite sure what the answer is to our health care dilemma. I do know this...something MUST be done to fix a system that is fucked up beyond belief! There is no other country in the world who spends more than 11% on healthcare, and this country spends closer to 15%! I personally believe that the drug companies are the ones who are mostly at fault here, but that's a different discussion for a different time!

I would rather have freedom and some set of moral standards.

Freedom? Hmmmm...I was wondering what the fence around the Massachusetts border was As for "moral standards"...I think the thing to keep in mind here is that your morals and someone else's morals are two entirely different sets of ideas, and neither is wrong!


John from Boston

[iceberg]

And you most certainly want to impose your way of living on people.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

You want all people to accept gay marriage

This is partially true.

so which is it? trying to understand this contradiction got me "fuckheaded".

[Enigma869]

so which is it? trying to understand this contradiction got me "fuckheaded".

Dude...learn how to put a lucid thought together. You quote 87 sentences and when respond with "which is it"! Work on your grammar, and get back to me! You've been here all of 10 minutes and already annoy the fuck out of me!


John from Boston

[iceberg]

so which is it? trying to understand this contradiction got me "fuckheaded".

Dude...learn how to put a lucid thought together. You quote 87 sentences and when respond with "which is it"! Work on your grammar, and get back to me! You've been here all of 10 minutes and already annoy the fuck out of me!


John from Boston

i quoted 4 sentences.

work on your math and i'll meet you in the middle.

and FYI - "which is it" means do you or do you NOT want to put your views of gay marrage on others? 1st reply is that it couldn't be further from the truth. a reply later, it's partially true.

to me something "furthest from the truth" cannot be "partially true". so, which is it?

[Enigma869]

Latest poll numbers from The Washington Post...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews


John from Boston

[conversationpc]

Latest poll numbers from The Washington Post...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews


John from Boston

This has been like that for several days now. I'm sure the polls will probably swing back in the other direction before too long.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Latest poll numbers from The Washington Post...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews


John from Boston

This has been like that for several days now. I'm sure the polls will probably swing back in the other direction before too long.

the WP poll appears to be lagging behind Gallup a day or two.

the last three days for Gallup daily tracking (looked at by the internal numbers for individual days, not the three day rolling averages ) were

Sat - Obama + 9
Sun - Obama + 3
Monday- Even

The numbers for Rasmussen reports and Gallup are closest to reality as they seem to estimate the number of Dems vs Republicans in the population most accurately and weigh things accordingly. Both pollsters estimate that this year between 38-40 of people are dems and 31-33 % of people are repubs. both of those polls put the race between even and + 3 for Obama - within the margin of error.

[Enigma869]

the WP poll appears to be lagging behind Gallup a day or two.

the last three days for Gallup daily tracking (looked at by the internal numbers for individual days, not the three day rolling averages ) were

Sat - Obama + 9
Sun - Obama + 3
Monday- Even

The numbers for Rasmussen reports and Gallup are closest to reality as they seem to estimate the number of Dems vs Republicans in the population most accurately and weigh things accordingly. Both pollsters estimate that this year between 38-40 of people are dems and 31-33 % of people are repubs. both of those polls put the race between even and + 3 for Obama - within the margin of error.

As I've stated here in the past, I give ZERO weight to any polls by anyone. Polls are usually not correct, but they're at least fun to talk about! I simply posted it because it was germane to the topic at hand!


John from Boston

[7 Wishes]

Much of the movement has come among college-educated whites. Whites without college degrees favor McCain by 17 points, while those with college degrees support Obama by 9 points.

Shocking.

[7 Wishes]

a. The speculators have nothing to do with oil company deregulation.

b. I grew up in the oil industry.

You do not understand the economics behind what is going on right now, neither do I, hell even the supposed "experts" are a dumbfounded, but some basic tennets of what you postulate here are absurd.

Listen...I have a client in 5 minutes and I don't have the time to address this fully. But I have PLENTY of unbiased sources to prove you're incorrrect.

And that you believe this bullcrap has a LOT to do with the correlation between points a and b.

[conversationpc]

Much of the movement has come among college-educated whites. Whites without college degrees favor McCain by 17 points, while those with college degrees support Obama by 9 points.

Shocking.

Sounds like the ones without college degrees, according to this poll, are actually smarter than the educated morons.

[grimlocked]

Much of the movement has come among college-educated whites. Whites without college degrees favor McCain by 17 points, while those with college degrees support Obama by 9 points.

Shocking.

Sounds like the ones without college degrees, according to this poll, are actually smarter than the educated morons.

That sounds like a very smart comment

[7 Wishes]

Sounds like the ones without college degrees, according to this poll, are actually smarter than the educated morons.

LOL.

However, that would mean there is a 9% greater preponderance of morons in this country than non-morons.

[iceberg]

Sounds like the ones without college degrees, according to this poll, are actually smarter than the educated morons.

LOL.

However, that would mean there is a 9% greater preponderance of morons in this country than non-morons.

so a white college male who prefers mccain is a moron?

[Jana]

wow, you guys have taken this thread to a whole new level. Morons & non-morons.





"Arnel makes me a better guy just knowing him" - Jonathan Cain.

[RedWingFan]

Much of the movement has come among college-educated whites. Whites without college degrees favor McCain by 17 points, while those with college degrees support Obama by 9 points.

Shocking.

Sounds like the ones without college degrees, according to this poll, are actually smarter than the educated morons.

Or missed out on 4 years of indoctrination!!!!

[conversationpc]

Sounds like the ones without college degrees, according to this poll, are actually smarter than the educated morons.

LOL.

However, that would mean there is a 9% greater preponderance of morons in this country than non-morons.

Well, label me a moron then!