Generations: Your # 1 track and why

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Postby cubby69 » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:32 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:
It IS the most Identifieable Jrny song on it. obviosly have a bunch of tracks tour digging so that's good.



Thats one of the main reasons I don't like it.

The things that most people consider to be the 'Journey' sound, I think is a load of crap. Journey has been making music for 30 years, but just because they had a couple of big hit albums in the 80's, that is supposed to define their 'sound'. BULLSHIT!!...sorry I don't buy it. They were musically a much better band before Perry even joined. Half of Infinity was written before Perry even walked into the studio for the first time.

I think Journeys sound can be anything the band decides. :)
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Postby Red13JoePa » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:54 pm

Yea, half the Infinity material was penned with Fleischman and Rolie in mind.
But most people (and I agree) that the most recognizable JRNY musical personality came with the advent of ESC4PE. With that in mind, and Perry already having been in place, I might argue that Cain was the final ingredient in bringing out that signature sound.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:26 am

cubby69 wrote:

The things that most people consider to be the 'Journey' sound, I think is a load of crap. Journey has been making music for 30 years, but just because they had a couple of big hit albums in the 80's, that is supposed to define their 'sound'. BULLSHIT!!...sorry I don't buy it. They were musically a much better band before Perry even joined. Half of Infinity was written before Perry even walked into the studio for the first time.
[/quote]

Hey bro, trust me, there IS such a thing as the Journey sound. Even Jon and Neal mention it from time to time.
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Postby Greg » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:57 am

Rock'ndeano wrote:
cubby69 wrote:

The things that most people consider to be the 'Journey' sound, I think is a load of crap. Journey has been making music for 30 years, but just because they had a couple of big hit albums in the 80's, that is supposed to define their 'sound'. BULLSHIT!!...sorry I don't buy it. They were musically a much better band before Perry even joined. Half of Infinity was written before Perry even walked into the studio for the first time.


Hey bro, trust me, there IS such a thing as the Journey sound. Even Jon and Neal mention it from time to time.[/quote]

I think it depends on the era in which you got familar with Journey. For me, it was in the early to mid 80's (I was just a kid.) I think most people relate to the 80's stuff because that was at the height of their popularity....I love the 80's keyboards and the guitar sound...however I also appreciate the late 70's Journey era as well.
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Postby cubby69 » Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:01 am

Red13JoePa wrote:Yea, half the Infinity material was penned with Fleischman and Rolie in mind.
But most people (and I agree) that the most recognizable JRNY musical personality came with the advent of ESC4PE. With that in mind, and Perry already having been in place, I might argue that Cain was the final ingredient in bringing out that signature sound.



But, see, I'm not that big of a fan of Escape, in fact you are correct Cain was the final ingredient that changed Journey from a rock band to a pop band. Not a good thing, if you ask me. To me Rolie leaving had a much bigger impact on this band than Perry. But thats just me... :wink:

Hey bro, trust me, there IS such a thing as the Journey sound. Even Jon and Neal mention it from time to time.

[/quote]

Deano that may be, but my point is, that all these whiny cry baby's think that Journey shouldn't make any music unless it sounds like something that came off of Escape, Frontiers or ROR and I personally think those three albums although, commercially were successfully, were the point where this band sold their souls for a hit. And for me, that makes them not such great music. I'd rather listen to an album that a band made because thats what they wanted to make. Up until Escape, they were truly a rock band and only answered to themselves. Again, IMHO. :D
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:57 am

Respectfully, I of course disagree. Escape and Frontiers were both solid, melodic masterpieces... BOTH of them. ROR was shit. I'll bet you my gay cat that if Andrew asked Neal, he would say so himself. Sure the poppy songs were good pop, proving that Britney Spears' job ain't all that tough... Shitty..shitty, and shitty.

Escape and Frontiers huh? Ask ANY band out there if they would like back to backers like those two monsters?

Def Leppard(Pyromania/Hysteria) and BonJovi(Slippery/New Jersey) did it in the 80's; REO came close(Hi Infidelity/Wheels are turnin'), and Bruce(Born in the USA/Tunnel of Love) came up short.. U2 didn't do it either.
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Postby Abitaman » Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:42 am

NealIsGod wrote:I also love right at the 4:00 mark of Knowing that You Love Me, when Augeri hits that high note and the band comes in with "YOU LIFT ME UP". sounds great.


That is my most dissapointing song on the cd. I feel like somthing is missing. I know the point you are talking about. The song builds, builds, gets better, and better, and better, and better, then.........nothing!! SOMETHING is MISSING!!! It's like getting it and not being there (if you know what I mean). Along with the high note, should have been a keyboard, or guitar, or the "You Lift Me Up" should have been UP more. I listen to this song and I want to scream this part.

By the way I still like the song!!!
Have yet to pick my favorite song off the cd yet-ERIC
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Postby Red13JoePa » Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:21 am

Er, uh whoa Cubby,
why praytell would you not a like that a Journey song sounds too much like a Journey song? Last we checked it's what the do is make Jrny songs. not to be glib but you lost me when you said Frontiers is a point where they sold their souls.
Separate Ways, I guess had the misfortune of being too big but it's still a hard rock track and Back Talk, Chain Reaction,Edge Of The Blade, stuff like that the title track,even troubled Child weren't caught up to as far as rockiness until All The THings. just b/c Frontiers was a monster seller doesn't mean it sold out.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:41 am

Red13JoePa wrote:Er, uh whoa Cubby,
why praytell would you not a like that a Journey song sounds too much like a Journey song? Last we checked it's what the do is make Jrny songs. not to be glib but you lost me when you said Frontiers is a point where they sold their souls.
Separate Ways, I guess had the misfortune of being too big but it's still a hard rock track and Back Talk, Chain Reaction,Edge Of The Blade, stuff like that the title track,even troubled Child weren't caught up to as far as rockiness until All The THings. just b/c Frontiers was a monster seller doesn't mean it sold out.


I guess I am the only one who cannot stand "Knowing that you Love me." Just doesn't go anywhere..
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Postby jrnyman28 » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:01 pm

Rock'ndeano wrote:I guess I am the only one who cannot stand "Knowing that you Love me." Just doesn't go anywhere..


While I love the song (I think it 'gets there', I don't think it needs any keyboard or anything at that point...just Steve) I know you are not alone in not liking this song.

But that is still the magic of this CD. There is such a variety of styles and influences that many of the songs reach different people differently.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:44 pm

No, not alone Dean. I hate ballads altogether except I'm Not That Way. Really, that might be the only JRNY one I hear and turn up with excited ears. That said, wile I still like all the ballads (and KTYLM is one of the best of the latter bunch) and admire them musically I'll never put any of them except maybe INTW or Livin To Do (which I look upon as more blues than ballad) on a mix and for me that's the true guide. Would i put a ballad on a JRNY mix and unless it's LTD or INTW the answere's definately know.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:33 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:No, not alone Dean. I hate ballads altogether except I'm Not That Way. Really, that might be the only JRNY one I hear and turn up with excited ears. That said, wile I still like all the ballads (and KTYLM is one of the best of the latter bunch) and admire them musically I'll never put any of them except maybe INTW or Livin To Do (which I look upon as more blues than ballad) on a mix and for me that's the true guide. Would i put a ballad on a JRNY mix and unless it's LTD or INTW the answere's definately know.


O come on dude.. Journey can melt many with their ballads..Hell that might be their only routing to Cleveland.. Open Arms, Faithfully, Why Cant this Night Go on Forever, When You Love a woman, are all great. Then you throw in Send her my love, sttill she cries and others..

I'm not that Way is garbage.. I could write that while pounding Shlitz tall boys!
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Postby cubby69 » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:35 pm

Rock'ndeano wrote:Respectfully, I of course disagree. Escape and Frontiers were both solid, melodic masterpieces... BOTH of them. ROR was shit. I'll bet you my gay cat that if Andrew asked Neal, he would say so himself. Sure the poppy songs were good pop, proving that Britney Spears' job ain't all that tough... Shitty..shitty, and shitty.

Escape and Frontiers huh? Ask ANY band out there if they would like back to backers like those two monsters?

Def Leppard(Pyromania/Hysteria) and BonJovi(Slippery/New Jersey) did it in the 80's; REO came close(Hi Infidelity/Wheels are turnin'), and Bruce(Born in the USA/Tunnel of Love) came up short.. U2 didn't do it either.



You're making my point for me...

'commercial success does not a great album make'

Hey Red13Joe, I never said every song off of Escape or Frontiers was bad. I'm saying as a whole those two albums SHOULD NOT DEFINE JOURNEY'S sound for the rest of the history of this band.

Troubled Child is probably one of my favorite songs this band has ever produced.

What I am saying is up until Escape and before Rolie left, there was a certain feel and vibe that surrounded this band, and I feel that it was lost once they decided to write songs only to produce hits. I'm sorry I have an issue with that. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. Its how I see it, thats all. Its all good buddy. 8)
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:37 pm

cubby69 wrote:
Rock'ndeano wrote:Respectfully, I of course disagree. Escape and Frontiers were both solid, melodic masterpieces... BOTH of them. ROR was shit. I'll bet you my gay cat that if Andrew asked Neal, he would say so himself. Sure the poppy songs were good pop, proving that Britney Spears' job ain't all that tough... Shitty..shitty, and shitty.

Escape and Frontiers huh? Ask ANY band out there if they would like back to backers like those two monsters?

Def Leppard(Pyromania/Hysteria) and BonJovi(Slippery/New Jersey) did it in the 80's; REO came close(Hi Infidelity/Wheels are turnin'), and Bruce(Born in the USA/Tunnel of Love) came up short.. U2 didn't do it either.



Cubby, I am making a point, but that isn't it. Just because Escape and Frontiers sold so well, makes it commercial but in a different sense.. If being commercial is selling shitloads of cd's because it's good, then I am a commercial guy..

You're making my point for me...

'commercial success does not a great album make'

Hey Red13Joe, I never said every song off of Escape or Frontiers was bad. I'm saying as a whole those two albums SHOULD NOT DEFINE JOURNEY'S sound for the rest of the history of this band.

Troubled Child is probably one of my favorite songs this band has ever produced.

What I am saying is up until Escape and before Rolie left, there was a certain feel and vibe that surrounded this band, and I feel that it was lost once they decided to write songs only to produce hits. I'm sorry I have an issue with that. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. Its how I see it, thats all. Its all good buddy. 8)


Cubby, I am making a point, but that isn't it. Just because Escape and Frontiers sold so well, makes it commercial but in a different sense.. If being commercial is selling shitloads of cd's because it's good, then I am a commercial guy..
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Postby cubby69 » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:42 pm

Rock'ndeano wrote:
cubby69 wrote:
Rock'ndeano wrote:Respectfully, I of course disagree. Escape and Frontiers were both solid, melodic masterpieces... BOTH of them. ROR was shit. I'll bet you my gay cat that if Andrew asked Neal, he would say so himself. Sure the poppy songs were good pop, proving that Britney Spears' job ain't all that tough... Shitty..shitty, and shitty.

Escape and Frontiers huh? Ask ANY band out there if they would like back to backers like those two monsters?

Def Leppard(Pyromania/Hysteria) and BonJovi(Slippery/New Jersey) did it in the 80's; REO came close(Hi Infidelity/Wheels are turnin'), and Bruce(Born in the USA/Tunnel of Love) came up short.. U2 didn't do it either.



Cubby, I am making a point, but that isn't it. Just because Escape and Frontiers sold so well, makes it commercial but in a different sense.. If being commercial is selling shitloads of cd's because it's good, then I am a commercial guy..

You're making my point for me...

'commercial success does not a great album make'

Hey Red13Joe, I never said every song off of Escape or Frontiers was bad. I'm saying as a whole those two albums SHOULD NOT DEFINE JOURNEY'S sound for the rest of the history of this band.

Troubled Child is probably one of my favorite songs this band has ever produced.

What I am saying is up until Escape and before Rolie left, there was a certain feel and vibe that surrounded this band, and I feel that it was lost once they decided to write songs only to produce hits. I'm sorry I have an issue with that. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. Its how I see it, thats all. Its all good buddy. 8)


Cubby, I am making a point, but that isn't it. Just because Escape and Frontiers sold so well, makes it commercial but in a different sense.. If being commercial is selling shitloads of cd's because it's good, then I am a commercial guy..



And I have absolutely no problem with that. But all I am saying just because an album is commercially successful doesn't mean its any damn good. Or in Journey's case that they didn't sell out where they came from to have a hit single. And thats one of the main reasons that they will never get into the HOF, with or without Perry, they are looked upon as sell outs and I just happen to agree. :)
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Postby Red13JoePa » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:45 pm

Fair assessment by Cub.
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Postby cubby69 » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:48 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:Fair assessment by Cub.



Thanks buddy! Cheers! :mrgreen:
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:50 pm

Bullshit. Journey NEVER sold out. You know who sold out? Aerosmith, going pop and lip syncing Super Bowls. Santana sold out by going really pop with guest singers(that was gay).

Journey will make the HOF.. They are just too good not to, and now that Perry can be in the same room as the others, it should be a go.

If the HOF committee says no again, I will personally go down there and shove a Schon strat up their bungholes
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Postby cubby69 » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:52 pm

You know who sold out? Aerosmith, going pop and lip syncing Super Bowls. Santana sold out by going really pop with guest singers(that was gay).

No arugment from me on that one.

Journey will make the HOF.. They are just too good not to, and now that Perry can be in the same room as the others, it should be a go.

We'll see...

If the HOF committee says no again, I will personally go down there and shove a Schon strat up their bungholes

[/quote]

Now thats funny, you made me almost spit my beer all over my monitor....... :lol:
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:55 pm

cubby69 wrote:You know who sold out? Aerosmith, going pop and lip syncing Super Bowls. Santana sold out by going really pop with guest singers(that was gay).

No arugment from me on that one.

Journey will make the HOF.. They are just too good not to, and now that Perry can be in the same room as the others, it should be a go.

We'll see...

If the HOF committee says no again, I will personally go down there and shove a Schon strat up their bungholes



Now thats funny, you made me almost spit my beer all over my monitor....... :lol:[/quote]

What part is funny. you didn't quote right..
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Postby cubby69 » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:56 pm

Rock'ndeano wrote:
cubby69 wrote:You know who sold out? Aerosmith, going pop and lip syncing Super Bowls. Santana sold out by going really pop with guest singers(that was gay).

No arugment from me on that one.

Journey will make the HOF.. They are just too good not to, and now that Perry can be in the same room as the others, it should be a go.

We'll see...

If the HOF committee says no again, I will personally go down there and shove a Schon strat up their bungholes



Now thats funny, you made me almost spit my beer all over my monitor....... :lol:


What part is funny. you didn't quote right..

[/quote]

This part...

If the HOF committee says no again, I will personally go down there and shove a Schon strat up their bungholes
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:35 pm

oh ok. I thought you meant the part of Journey going to the HOF.

That is one cause where I KNOW everybody here will push for it.

The HOF committee pisses me off.

What we need is for Springsteen to aid us..The HOF loves him. He can write a song about a mangie poodle taking a dump on the Whitehouse lawn, and the HOF would love it.

Neal needs to network, but neal is great..Neal doesn't give a shit about that crap.

I love Neal; I fuckin' love him!
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Postby cubby69 » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:28 am

Rock'ndeano wrote:oh ok. I thought you meant the part of Journey going to the HOF.

That is one cause where I KNOW everybody here will push for it.

The HOF committee pisses me off.

What we need is for Springsteen to aid us..The HOF loves him. He can write a song about a mangie poodle taking a dump on the Whitehouse lawn, and the HOF would love it.

Neal needs to network, but neal is great..Neal doesn't give a shit about that crap.

I love Neal; I fuckin' love him!


You're right, Neal could care less about the HOF, and rightfully so, being inducted into the HOF or not, is no more of an indicator of how great a band is, just like having an album sell millons of copies is not an indicator that is automatically a great album... 8)
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:39 am

cubby69 wrote:
Rock'ndeano wrote:oh ok. I thought you meant the part of Journey going to the HOF.

That is one cause where I KNOW everybody here will push for it.

The HOF committee pisses me off.

What we need is for Springsteen to aid us..The HOF loves him. He can write a song about a mangie poodle taking a dump on the Whitehouse lawn, and the HOF would love it.

Neal needs to network, but neal is great..Neal doesn't give a shit about that crap.

I love Neal; I fuckin' love him!


You're right, Neal could care less about the HOF, and rightfully so, being inducted into the HOF or not, is no more of an indicator of how great a band is, just like having an album sell millons of copies is not an indicator that is automatically a great album... 8)


Oh I think he cares. This is an award bestowed upon you by your peeers..well, it's supposed to be. In reality, it's a bunch of hacks at Sony or WB picking their favourites..
Cubby, Journey did sell a lot of albums over a good long timespan, which suggests they weren't some flash in the pan..In this case, I firmly believe their sales alone should merit induction; and if that isn't good enough, how about touring numbers? I could go on and on..Escape video game; screens at shows; acrobatic lighting; Anyway You Want It on Caddyshack!; the list is endless..
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Postby NealIsGod » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:09 am

I picked my new quote in my sig with Neal's feelings about the HOF in mind.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:10 am

NealIsGod wrote:I picked my new quote in my sig with Neal's feelings about the HOF in mind.


I was flattered by MY quotes instead..
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Postby cubby69 » Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:31 am

[/quote]

Oh I think he cares. This is an award bestowed upon you by your peeers..well, it's supposed to be. In reality, it's a bunch of hacks at Sony or WB picking their favourites..
Cubby, Journey did sell a lot of albums over a good long timespan, which suggests they weren't some flash in the pan..In this case, I firmly believe their sales alone should merit induction; and if that isn't good enough, how about touring numbers? I could go on and on..Escape video game; screens at shows; acrobatic lighting; Anyway You Want It on Caddyshack!; the list is endless..

[/quote]

Hey buddy, I never said Journey was a flash in the pan, I happen to be a big fan of this band, have been since the start. All I said was, the people who put together the list for the HOF look at Journey and see a band that started out as a progressive rock band with a solid future and by 1981 had changed their sound, look and direction and had become something so far removed from where they began. I happen to agree with at least some of that thinking.

I belive since they broke away from Sony after the debacle that was Arrival, they are trying to at least resemble the band they started out to be. And I for one could not be any fucking happier about that!!

People can talk about Escape, Frontiers and ROR 'til they are blue in the face, but I am telling you they were never better (that is until this cd) than they were during the first few years with Perry, before he was given control and pushed out Rolie and with Cains help turned this once great rock band into a poppy hit single making machine. Departure is the absolute best this band ever was, but Generations is definitely giving it a run for the money. :mrgreen:
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Postby Rockindeano » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:43 pm

cubby69 wrote:


Oh I think he cares. This is an award bestowed upon you by your peeers..well, it's supposed to be. In reality, it's a bunch of hacks at Sony or WB picking their favourites..
Cubby, Journey did sell a lot of albums over a good long timespan, which suggests they weren't some flash in the pan..In this case, I firmly believe their sales alone should merit induction; and if that isn't good enough, how about touring numbers? I could go on and on..Escape video game; screens at shows; acrobatic lighting; Anyway You Want It on Caddyshack!; the list is endless..

[/quote]

Hey buddy, I never said Journey was a flash in the pan, I happen to be a big fan of this band, have been since the start. All I said was, the people who put together the list for the HOF look at Journey and see a band that started out as a progressive rock band with a solid future and by 1981 had changed their sound, look and direction and had become something so far removed from where they began. I happen to agree with at least some of that thinking.

I belive since they broke away from Sony after the debacle that was Arrival, they are trying to at least resemble the band they started out to be. And I for one could not be any fucking happier about that!!

People can talk about Escape, Frontiers and ROR 'til they are blue in the face, but I am telling you they were never better (that is until this cd) than they were during the first few years with Perry, before he was given control and pushed out Rolie and with Cains help turned this once great rock band into a poppy hit single making machine. Departure is the absolute best this band ever was, but Generations is definitely giving it a run for the money. :mrgreen:[/quote]

I agree; 100%
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