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Postby Spike » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:14 pm

Devil's advocate question then. Is there only enough truly great material on "Generations" to warrant an EP?

My picks ..

Faith In The Heartland
A Better Life
Out Of Harm's Way
Better Together
Beyond The Clouds

Discuss. :lol:
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Postby NealIsGod » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:20 pm

Who buys EPs? Unless it is a band you are a huge fan of, does anyone buy EPs? Do stores even sell them? What is the purpose of an EP? What does EP stand for, for cryin' out loud?
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Postby mamos » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:24 pm

Unless it's a band you are mad on I can't see many people buying them.

I would if like Red 13 it was new material but I would feel a little cheated that they hadn't made the effort to record a full album. What's the point of releasing 4 tracks??

It stands for Extended Play I think. Extended compared to a single I presume.
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Postby NealIsGod » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:16 pm

mamos wrote:Unless it's a band you are mad on I can't see many people buying them.

I would if like Red 13 it was new material but I would feel a little cheated that they hadn't made the effort to record a full album. What's the point of releasing 4 tracks??

It stands for Extended Play I think. Extended compared to a single I presume.


Since we are now in the digital age, they should be called something different, like mini-discs or something. I can count the number of EPs I have bought in my life on one hand.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:28 pm

Me too.
1. Red13. EP=Extend Play. kind of ironic cuz they're short. LP=LongPlay. The Noble Cause, I do recall Neal saying that. Just like the Warfield dvd he rolled out there, the promise was broken. I'd rather have an ep every year than 1 full-lenght every 5. I think if it was up to only neal, we'd have that Warfield. i think I heard it was Cain who really kiboshed it.

And Deen backed Cain, sayign there wasn't enough "good" footage. Who cares as long as the soundboard recording's there and intact??? Then shelve the video part and just put the audio out on cd. We need a live cd of this lineup but I digress again.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:16 am

Spike wrote:Devil's advocate question then. Is there only enough truly great material on "Generations" to warrant an EP?

My picks ..

Faith In The Heartland
A Better Life
Out Of Harm's Way
Better Together
Beyond The Clouds

Discuss. :lol:



Discuss, or argue? You left off "The Place in Your Heart", Every Generation, Knowing that You Loved Me, and Butterfly.

Red 13 was 4 songs long...Imo, Gens is a full lengther....Nice try.
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Postby mamos » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:35 am

Definately a full album, there are a few tracks I would leave off but not enough to make it anything less than a full cd,
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Postby NealIsGod » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:37 am

mamos wrote:Definately a full album, there are a few tracks I would leave off but not enough to make it anything less than a full cd,


Like which ones? If I had to cut two, they would be Better Together and In Self-Defense (since it already exists).
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Postby Red13JoePa » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:38 am

God almighty. If anything they should ADD to in Pride Of The Family and Never Too Late making another full 15.
In answer to Spike, NO. There is NOT only enough strong material on Gens. to make an just an ep. I will not allow myself to make fur fly but come on.
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"Let's reform this thing.Let's go out and get some guys who want to work and go do it"--Neal Schon February, 2001
"I looked at Neal, and I just saw a guy who really wants his band back"-JCain 2/01
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Postby Spike » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:48 am

Rock'ndeano wrote:
Spike wrote:Devil's advocate question then. Is there only enough truly great material on "Generations" to warrant an EP?

My picks ..

Faith In The Heartland
A Better Life
Out Of Harm's Way
Better Together
Beyond The Clouds

Discuss. :lol:



Discuss, or argue? You left off "The Place in Your Heart", Every Generation, Knowing that You Loved Me, and Butterfly.

Red 13 was 4 songs long...Imo, Gens is a full lengther....Nice try.


:)

I picked the tracks I felt would be with me for the long term. Of the ones you mention, I have reservations about each in its way.

"The Place in Your Heart"
To me, this sounds like a composite of at least half a dozen ‘classic’ Journey songs, including Chain Reaction and Separate Ways. It left me with the impression of a band trying to sound like Journey.

“Every Generation”
Good song. Unfortunately, for me, Jon’s vocal doesn’t have the necessary impact to lift it into a great track.

“Knowing that You Loved Me”
I find this overblown and cynical. To me, it is formulaic and it’s the track I like less and less each time I hear the CD

“Butterfly”
I really think that this is a track that will polarise listeners. In my pecking order of the tracks, it comes third from bottom, just before “Gone Crazy” and “Believe”. I just have not warmed to it at all. I’ll keep trying. I have promised myself that I will keep playing the entire CD from end to end for a period of time, to give each track a fair chance.

I don’t think EPs are the way forward either. I suppose I just posed the question because it is a useful way of distilling, from the tracks offered, which are the most important or attractive to any given listener.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:50 am

JRNY sounding ike JRNY is a bad thing for you?

And why shouldn't they sound like they sound?
"I love almost everybody."---Rocky Balboa 1990
"Let's reform this thing.Let's go out and get some guys who want to work and go do it"--Neal Schon February, 2001
"I looked at Neal, and I just saw a guy who really wants his band back"-JCain 2/01
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Postby Spike » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:56 am

Red13JoePa wrote:JRNY sounding ike JRNY is a bad thing for you?

And why shouldn't they sound like they sound?


That's the thing. It's not, in my opinion, Journey sounding like Journey. It's as though another band was trying to write to sound like Journey. Something doesn't gel.

Journey sounding like Journey is definitely a good thing. This track, somehow, seems one degree removed.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:59 am

Spike wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:JRNY sounding ike JRNY is a bad thing for you?

And why shouldn't they sound like they sound?


That's the thing. It's not, in my opinion, Journey sounding like Journey. It's as though another band was trying to write to sound like Journey. Something doesn't gel.

Journey sounding like Journey is definitely a good thing. This track, somehow, seems one degree removed.



If you crank up your speakers and jam it loud, The Place in Your Heart is PURE Journey, with Neal's melodic guitar..It just doesn't get better than that. Seperate Ways and Ask the Lonely are similar in speed, but neither posesses the melodic sound of TPIYH.
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Postby jrnyman28 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:00 am

I can see the point of an EP every year over a full CD every 4-5 years.
BUT, I would rather have a 10 song CD over an EP. Even if there are 6 goo-great songs and 4 that are not so good, I remember that it is solely my opinion that those songs are not so good. Other people may love them. A 10 song CD is enough to give something to everyone. Maybe the "overall" is a little weaker than an EP with just the best songs, but it is acceptable.

Journey put out a CD every year for 6 years (and they recorded DAD and released Captured in that time). After that, Journey slowed down due to the length of their tours. Well, their tours are not as long as they were back then...I don't think there should be any problem with knocking out a CD a year if they choose to. Why doesn't Journey want to record more? Probably because they really don't make any money off of CDs and they are not particularly marketable right now. But I think that is a cop-out!
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Postby NealIsGod » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:02 am

Funny, I have yet to see a TOP ROCK EP list anywhere... stick to full length CDs.
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Postby Spike » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:02 am

Rock'ndeano wrote:If you crank up your speakers and jam it loud



There's another way to listen?
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Postby Red13JoePa » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:03 am

OK, NIG
then be prepared for another 5-year wait.
"I love almost everybody."---Rocky Balboa 1990
"Let's reform this thing.Let's go out and get some guys who want to work and go do it"--Neal Schon February, 2001
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Postby jrnyman28 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:08 am

Spike wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:JRNY sounding ike JRNY is a bad thing for you?

And why shouldn't they sound like they sound?


That's the thing. It's not, in my opinion, Journey sounding like Journey. It's as though another band was trying to write to sound like Journey. Something doesn't gel.

Journey sounding like Journey is definitely a good thing. This track, somehow, seems one degree removed.


That's how I felt about Arrival. With the exception of songs like We Will Meet Again, Kiss Me Softly and Living To Do the CD sounded forced to sound like classic Journey. It did not sound natural when you consider two new members in the band.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:09 am

Red13JoePa wrote:OK, NIG
then be prepared for another 5-year wait.



That's what I'm afraid of. I truly believe this is the last CD..

I do think we DESERVE a live CD from this group though.
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Postby jrnyman28 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:13 am

Rock'ndeano wrote:I do think we DESERVE a live CD from this group though.


ABSOLUTELY!!
What if the only way Perry would allow it is if Journey agrees to "retire"?
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Postby mamos » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:13 am

NIG: If pushed I would remove Gone Crazy In self Defense and Believe.
Then add Never Too Late. 10 tracks all great.

But that is being overly fussy. I like the cd as it is but I think it could have been better. The tracks listed don't do it for me.

The Place In Your Heart is a cracking song and cranked up is the only way to listen to a rock cd IMO.

jrnyman 28: Should a band just release cd's for the money. They are making their money off the tours, they are music men and are I would have thought constantly creative. The only release for this creativity is by giving us the fans that want new material a new cd.

I think they should release something new every 18 months to 2 years, at least.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:15 am

Marky Mark-

You better reduce that picture..Andrew spanked all of us yesterday..Fuckin Aussie....
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Postby jrnyman28 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:19 am

mamos wrote:NIG: If pushed I would remove Gone Crazy In self Defense and Believe.
Then add Never Too Late. 10 tracks all great.


Sounds pretty good to me too. But at different times I would remove different songs.

mamos wrote:jrnyman 28: Should a band just release cd's for the money. They are making their money off the tours, they are music men and are I would have thought constantly creative. The only release for this creativity is by giving us the fans that want new material a new cd.

I think they should release something new every 18 months to 2 years, at least.


I am not saying they should, I am saying that MAY be why they are not doing more...it is not marketable. I understand the need to be creative, but it does still cost money for producers, engineering, studio time and packaging time. Maybe they feel is not worth it at this time, especially since they are pretty much "damned if the do and damned if they don't". Journey can't win, and they can't please everyone. The people who don't like something are louder than the ones who do. It probably wears them out a little. Journey pours their souls into a new CD and they get shredded for it. They don't need that!

I think it should be 18 months to 2 years at MOST! But that is because I am selfish.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:20 am

mamos, they should be able to make SOME decent coin off of new albums. They would not do it at a loss. It's not like it was and touring carries most of the financial day but still....
"I love almost everybody."---Rocky Balboa 1990
"Let's reform this thing.Let's go out and get some guys who want to work and go do it"--Neal Schon February, 2001
"I looked at Neal, and I just saw a guy who really wants his band back"-JCain 2/01
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Postby jrnyman28 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:23 am

Red13JoePa wrote:mamos, they should be able to make SOME decent coin off of new albums. They would not do it at a loss. It's not like it was and touring carries most of the financial day but still....


True that releasing CDs independatly means it takes selling fewer CDs before you start making money.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:39 am

Money. Ok, well try this one.

Make a video. Pay for it yourselves. Take a loss..at first..How many people don't know about 2005 Journey? Generations, what's that?

Film a video, live if you want, get it on VH1, and let the video be your marketing vehicle.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:42 am

I just don't get it..
Last edited by Rockindeano on Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mamos » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:48 am

Took me long enough to work out how to get the bastard on.

TAke me another week to minimise it :)
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Postby jrnyman28 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:50 am

Rock'ndeano wrote:Money. Ok, well try this one.

Make a video. Pay for it yourselves. Take a loss..at first..How many people don't know about 2005 Journey? Generations, what's that?

Film a video, live if you want, get it on VH1, and let the video be your marketing vehicle.


They tried the video route with Arrival. It was an after thought of course, but it was the perfect opportunity due to the availability of the DVD footage. VH1 still did not play it and VH1Classic only played them rarely.

Of course there were a couple problems. "All The Way" was weak! Sony didn't care about "Arrival".

But, those videos were not a financial loss and they still didn't make a splash. VH1, eMpTyV, FUSE, etc DON'T CARE! VH1 Classic is the only outlet.

A Live video would be the cheapest, but it will not get airplay because there is nothing "special" about it. I have posted the idea MANY times that Journey should approach film school students with the task of making a video for a specific song. Give them the song and let them run with it. Students will find a fresh view and they will be cheap.

I think Out Of Harm's Way would make a GREAT video...especially as a tribute to the Armed Forces! Beyond The Clouds could make a FANTASTIC video but I don't know how good a single that would be.

I think Knowing That You Love Me does have the most potential as a crossover hit. Top 40 would play it and R&B stations MIGHT. Try sending it to R&B stations without the band name attached. Who knows?
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Postby Red13JoePa » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:50 am

Deano: I'll be gone for an hour..

I am writing a new song..

The Place in Your Board, for Andrew...

Stay tuned."
"

Oh for the love of the god.

Actually hhhmmmmmmm......can you come up with a nice bg vocal part for me? I sing good Acapulco.
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