BackTalk Creator Weighs In:

[Red13JoePa]

I hope Frank doesn't mind me bringing this over here, but I thought it a hell of a read: For the record I think we've seen the type of people he mentions in point 1 show up all over the internet, including here, not just BT.

"This is a terribly touchy subject for me.

I created BackTalk. I came up with the name, the naming convention of all the various sub forums like castles burning...and Skylord (the other guy I worked on the journey website with) and I came up with the naming convention for all the various post-count rankings. We came up with the color scheme (which was in large part conceived after seeing an advance jpg of the cover art of Arrival)....In fact I initially purchased the license for the forum software.

Just prior to back talk getting started, there was significant resistance (by the powers that be) to the concept of having a forum on the official band website. I got the impression that the band didn't want it there for reasons I didn't quite understand. At the time, I had been building/designing/developing websites professionally for approximately 5 years....heck, I was building websites before microsoft had a viable version of internet explorer.

At the time (1999-2000) it was a fairly progressive concept for a band to have an official forum. I envisioned great things for Back Talk. A band like Journey, whos songs were always about the fans, could really connect with them in a way that no other band had prior. They could communicate with them in the forums and really make the connection something special. I am also a guitar player, so I created back talk with the hopes that Neal Schon disciples like myself could talk about Neal's licks and riffs and sometimes, hear commentary and discussion from the man himself....all online in BackTalk.

So after initially meeting alot of resistance and alot of attempted convincing on my part, we got the go-ahead to build Back Talk....and I watched the board go from 5-10 users to thousands of users in what seemed like overnight. In fact, the forum got so big we had to delegate moderation to others...some are still major moderators.

Over the next few years, I saw two things happen to backtalk which thoroughly dishcouraged me from any continued involvement with the site:

1) The onslaught of the cat-fighting psycho women - The 'psycho fan'!!! Call them perryheads, Augeriheads, journey babes, whatever you want to call them...they are the most ugly cross section of Journey Fan you ever witnessed. Most of these cat-fighting psychos are women in their early 40s to late 50s. They seem absolutely devoid of any reason or well being in their lives. They live to return to Back Talk on a daily basis and fight for some rediculous thing they miss from Journey...be it Steve Perry's short lived mustache circa 1983, Neal Schon's fro, Augeri's red leather pants. Whatever you call it...they treat their 'causes' like an issue that needs to be defended at all costs at the expense of others. Like the causeheads in PCU...these psycho post-menopausal, sexually frustrated, emotionally depressed women brought an absolutely war-like atmosphere to Back Talk. A large percentage of them were the equivalent of an online stalker. The amount requests I received, seemingly on a daily basis, for band member's email addresses, home addresses, phone numbers, etc by these stalkers was simply unreal. I didn't have this information to begin with...but I turned away these nutjobs everyday.

I also humbly disagree with Andrew in a small way. I do feel that it is a representative cross section of the band's fan base....as sad as that sounds. It may not be the whole fan base...but no other band has such a violent, mean-spirited online fan base....Go to any other band's forum....You simply wont see the kind of bickering and fighting between women that you see here. This all leads to #2....


2) As a result of the cat-fighting day in and day out....fighting over Perry's choice of boxers or briefs, Augeri's decission to grow his hair long, where Neal took his dry cleaning....the moderators took control of the site. Skylord and I had had enough...we no longer had the energy....not only that, but we both felt that an over-moderated forum can not survive. The excessive moderation at that site was too much for me to watch...and I left. People couldn't express a view out of line of a list of accepted discussion topics without some moderator bitch slapping the offending poster with a warning of bannishment and a deletion of the post. Or just straight bannishment. I'm not going to say that freedom of speech exists or should exist on a private site...but the extent to which speech was limited on Back Talk was simply wrong. I was convinced that the board was going to fizzle and die as a result of the squealching by moderation. In fact, it is a testament to just how disturbingly devoted to the 'psycho fan' is...that this board is still alive and unwell...even though the place is run like a gulag.

I've professionally built hundreds of sites over the span of my 9-year career in web development (before changing careers) and I have never seen an overmoderated forum like back talk last...


It got to the point where I started to see why the band didn't want to have a forum. They probably lived with the Journey-psycho-fan their whole career. The internet only gave these psycho nut jobs another tool with which to attack Neal, Jon, Ross, Deeno and Steve....and they knew what was to come of such a forum.

Prior to working on the journey website, I saw only good in people online. I never thought such nasty, un-friendly, mean spirited behavior could exist in people until I saw Back Talk turn into the festering evil den of hatred that it is today.

[yulog]

great read. guy has great insight, a dysfunctional emotional mess

[Barb]

I used to post on Skylord's Journey Forum and remember the early days of BackTalk -- it was a pretty fun place. Isn't it funny that the Band can say "sings the HELL out of our songs" in their official press release, but you cannot type the word HELL on BT? The place is ridiculous -- close it or let people speak freely!

[Enigma869]

Thanks for posting that, 13! What a SUPERB read! It was somewhat hilarious for me to read that, as I've been openly saying much of the same exact things about the old, horny, psycho, stalker chicks and the embarrassing way that site is moderated, for years!!!!! It's so refreshing to see that a guy who actually built that site, "Gets it"!!!!!

I got so tired of listening to CJ's same old "free speech doesn't exist on a private internet site, so say nothing critical, or be banned for life" bullshit, that I decided to ban myself!!!! It's too bad that guy got so frustrated, that he did the same exact thing (i.e. ban himself)! It sounds as if he were still involved, the site might be a fun site to visit! I agree with his sentiment that an overly moderated forum is begging for a slow, painful death, and that's clearly going on at BT! Let's hope that someone with some vision breathes some life back into that site, before it's too late (if it's not already)!


John from Boston

[NCscarab]

I just registered and thought this was the perfect topic to introduce myself to the forum on.I am a frequent visitor to the Back Talk forum and while I am not a frequent poster I keep a fairly close eye on the topics of discussion there.I have to wholeheartedly agree that the forum is overly moderated and that if the poster hits on a "taboo" subject or viewpoint you are immediately bombarded with posts that you are out of line or not a "loyal" fan and usually get a nice visit from a moderator to inform you of your transgression.I always think twice about what I post and how I word it so that it offends as few people as possible and I try to stay off of some of the more "sore" subjects.Despite all this I still seem to draw the wrath of the masses and the moderators from time to time and I view myself as a loyal fan and a tame poster as well.I guess what I am trying to convey is that I'm not a big fan of the whole direction that Back Talk is going in and some of the more aggressive posters that frequent it.I sincerely hope that it can become a more open and user friendly forum soon.

[Carrington]

As it sits, the forum (all of it) is closed for the holidays.......I believe that most of the heartbroken A-Heads are drinking thier sorrows away, theres no telling what that place will look like, or be like once they re-open.........

nice to see the insite of the board creator as well.........he hit it right on the head.

[Red13JoePa]

As it sits, the forum (all of it) is closed for the holidays.......I believe that most of the heartbroken A-Heads are drinking thier sorrows away

It's whacky AHeads, it's PerryOnlys, and most recently the ANYbodyBUTAugeriHeads who militantly confront unlike-minded types and do the online equivalent of "Oy yea? Let's take this outside and make something of it"
over the STUPIDEST fuckin things.

[Rockindeano]

Tremendous.

If THIS piece isn't the ultimate validation hat BT and a big majority of its' users completely suck, then I don't know what is. This also proves that Andrew is a complete and unadultered fucking hero. Dude rules. (fuck you, Monker).

[Red13JoePa]

Tremendous.

If THIS piece isn't the ultimate validation hat BT and a big majority of its' users completely suck, then I don't know what is. This also proves that Andrew is a complete and unadultered fucking hero. Dude rules. (fuck you, Monker).

Yea, but remember it's NOT EVERYbody there, just like it's not ONLY there where the Journey psychosis happens.

[maverick218]

I remember Skylord's site well, and I guess that you would call me a charter member of the current site. But the place just isn't any fun anymore. Discussions over there are very predictable and boring. I'm curious to know how many hits they get now compared to how it may have been a year or so ago...
Talking about the psycho chicks posting about Agueri's red leather pants is totally true. I have one other one to add, Steve Perry's hair. Being a guy, I couldn't care less about what pants someone is wearing or the length of their hair, but by gosh, if you say anything like that over there, you will get flamed. I used to hit journeymusic every day, now it's about once or twice a week- mainly here lately to see if the announcement that we all over here knew was coming had come out yet.
Thank goodness Andrew has this site- before I started posting some, I came to MR.com to get the latest news on not only Journey, but other bands in a genre of music that I love. This is the site that has the news (as evidenced by Andrew's interviews), and the discussions are open, although you still will get flamed here to if you say something stupid.
I think that Journey's fans are among the most passionate in music, perhaps that is why things get so ugly sometimes, I don't know.
I'm a Neal disciple as well, and at least they have "castles burning" to discuss things about Neal's music and equipment, but even that has gotten a bit boring and predictable lately.
Journey on everyone and have a Happy New Year.

[maverick218]

I just registered and thought this was the perfect topic to introduce myself to the forum on.I am a frequent visitor to the Back Talk forum and while I am not a frequent poster I keep a fairly close eye on the topics of discussion there.I have to wholeheartedly agree that the forum is overly moderated and that if the poster hits on a "taboo" subject or viewpoint you are immediately bombarded with posts that you are out of line or not a "loyal" fan and usually get a nice visit from a moderator to inform you of your transgression.I always think twice about what I post and how I word it so that it offends as few people as possible and I try to stay off of some of the more "sore" subjects.Despite all this I still seem to draw the wrath of the masses and the moderators from time to time and I view myself as a loyal fan and a tame poster as well.I guess what I am trying to convey is that I'm not a big fan of the whole direction that Back Talk is going in and some of the more aggressive posters that frequent it.I sincerely hope that it can become a more open and user friendly forum soon.

Well said NCscarab and welcome from a fellow tarheel (only by birth- my sports allegiance lies elsewhere).

[conversationpc]

I don't know what the forum was like before I joined in early 2001 but it was fun for awhile. Then the decision was maded to close the Water Cooler section, which was really the only forum there where you could have real personal interaction with the other fans. That was a huge mistake, in my opinion. Nowadays, I rarely ever even ready anything over there unless someone mentions something here about it first and it's usually not for anything good unfortunately.

I don't blame the band members for not posting there, but it's also partly their and the management's making anyway, since it's regulated like a European-style socialist government. Hell, I'm surprised they don't charge a per-post fee or something like that

[amaron]

Overmodded forum and shitty rest of the site.

B-E-A-utiful.

[Lula]

Interesting to say the leadt. Where did this come from, JoePa?

[jrnychick]

Red: Was this posted on BT? I just did a quick look for it, and couldn't find it. I am just wondering what the responses are to it on BT.

And John, being horny isn't always a bad thing.... just ask my husband.

To all you men out there: Not all of us women who frequent BT are as generally described. I'm under 40, in pretty good physical shape (I'm working on it), happily married and a mom, and I run my own business and make a good living. I have a great life. I still reserve the right to say that Steve A. and JSS are both pretty darn HOT. Sorry Perryheads, but I never thought SP is attractive. There are many of us women who can appreciate a good-looking man without worshipping him.

[SteveForever]

Red: Was this posted on BT? I just did a quick look for it, and couldn't find it. I am just wondering what the responses are to it on BT.

And John, being horny isn't always a bad thing.... just ask my husband.

To all you men out there: Not all of us women who frequent BT are as generally described. I'm under 40, in pretty good physical shape (I'm working on it), happily married and a mom, and I run my own business and make a good living. I have a great life. I still reserve the right to say that Steve A. and JSS are both pretty darn HOT. Sorry Perryheads, but I never thought SP is attractive. There are many of us women who can appreciate a good-looking man without worshipping him.

AMEN!!! but does cause pause to examine one's self doesn't it? Time for some new year's resolutions!!!

[jrnychick]

Red: Was this posted on BT? I just did a quick look for it, and couldn't find it. I am just wondering what the responses are to it on BT.

And John, being horny isn't always a bad thing.... just ask my husband.

To all you men out there: Not all of us women who frequent BT are as generally described. I'm under 40, in pretty good physical shape (I'm working on it), happily married and a mom, and I run my own business and make a good living. I have a great life. I still reserve the right to say that Steve A. and JSS are both pretty darn HOT. Sorry Perryheads, but I never thought SP is attractive. There are many of us women who can appreciate a good-looking man without worshipping him.

AMEN!!! but does cause pause to examine one's self doesn't it? Time for some new year's resolutions!!!

I agree that self-examination is a good thing! I don't make new year's resolutions anymore though! The things I used to resolve to do I now try to focus on throughout the year.

[KCfla]

Interesting to say the leadt. Where did this come from, JoePa?

I saw it on the noticeboard here at MR. I think that's where it came from.

[Red13JoePa]

Interesting to say the leadt. Where did this come from, JoePa?

I saw it on the noticeboard here at MR. I think that's where it came from.

Noticeboard, and for the record he wasn't saying every poster on BT is/was like that. Just that the majority of the militant sociopathic warriors were of the mentioned demographic.

[tammy]

Well, I wasn't around when the Back Talk first started so I don't know how "pyscho" it was like he stated...but, his tone is definitely misogynistic. I find it hard to believe it was all women acting like that. I'm not sure what he was expecting - putting any forum up on the Internet is gonna be crazy with all types - maybe it was moreso because there was a significant change with the lead singer role. Anyway, not every fan is "deranged" like this guy seems to think...for the record, I've never participated in the SP vs SA debates or fought over anything at BT (even 'tho yes, I think SP is the best)...but, like ANY forum there will be kooks & good people - such is life. I do like knowing about my faves, reading what people think & write, learning about music & related things, but no way am I the stalker type! Eeeewww!

tammy

[strangegrey]

Red: Was this posted on BT? I just did a quick look for it, and couldn't find it. I am just wondering what the responses are to it on BT.

And John, being horny isn't always a bad thing.... just ask my husband.

To all you men out there: Not all of us women who frequent BT are as generally described. I'm under 40, in pretty good physical shape (I'm working on it), happily married and a mom, and I run my own business and make a good living. I have a great life. I still reserve the right to say that Steve A. and JSS are both pretty darn HOT. Sorry Perryheads, but I never thought SP is attractive. There are many of us women who can appreciate a good-looking man without worshipping him.

Nope...wasn't posted on Back Talk. I originally wrote this over at the noticeboard on MR.com...and it was reposted here in full...

Trust me, if this ever got onto back talk, I'm sure I'd have upside down crosses burned in my front lawn and bricks wrapped with tailed-jackets thrown through my front window!


The female generalization that I've made....will be interpreted as 'unfair' to some. And I am sure that there will be quite a handful of very level headed, beautiful, healthy, horny (or not) women that will take exception to what I've said...and to those, I appologize. Unfortunately, there is a significant number of those at BT that are exactly as I described...and they are truly beyond help...It's been that way over at back talk for a VERY long time....and nothing is going to change that atmosphere over there.

That, in part, is the reason why I posted 2 reasons for Back Talk's demise. An un-moderated or lesser moderated forum...a certain voice would have been allowed to 'fight back' and the general atmosphere, although initially it might have been brutal, would have sorted itself out. See, most online forums evolve very similarly to real life society. Eventually, you would have seen some folks take on a leadership role (without the 'whacking' power that a moderator has)...and those people would help maintain a civil atmosphere...and spirited discussion would happen without serious incident.

A moderator's role in a healthy forum is to step in when a poster or a fight goes way beyond that of civil or socially acceptable. There are tools to allow language to be curbed, but sometimes people just get downright nasty. The moderator steps in and takes control, resets the norm and steps out...and gets out of the way of people interacting. What happened at BT, is that moderation became a normal part of the process. Spirited discussion is NEVER given an opportunity to self-correct....which is sorta like living day and night with verbal-police ready to swat you as soon as you stray from acceptable topics...and a list of acceptable topics have been established. Those that would upset the balance have learned to manipulate the system within this established set of parameters and a mob of perry-jihadists, augeri-machinegunners, jss-assasins, etc have developed...

What has happened, is that as long as you fall within the accepted view-points of the 'mob'...you are allowed to get away with almost anything. And those that aren't in agreement with the 'mob' are sumarily dealt with....


The place is truly an enigma. It's the type of online society that a psychology doctoral candidate could write a thesis on.....

[Red13JoePa]

a mob of perry-jihadists, augeri-machinegunners, jss-assasins, etc have developed...

Even if you are one of the above, you have to admit these labels are pretty funny.

[strangegrey]

Well, I wasn't around when the Back Talk first started so I don't know how "pyscho" it was like he stated...but, his tone is definitely misogynistic. I find it hard to believe it was all women acting like that. I'm not sure what he was expecting - putting any forum up on the Internet is gonna be crazy with all types - maybe it was moreso because there was a significant change with the lead singer role. Anyway, not every fan is "deranged" like this guy seems to think...for the record, I've never participated in the SP vs SA debates or fought over anything at BT (even 'tho yes, I think SP is the best)...but, like ANY forum there will be kooks & good people - such is life. I do like knowing about my faves, reading what people think & write, learning about music & related things, but no way am I the stalker type! Eeeewww!

tammy

Tammy, as already stated...I do offer appologies to those that dont feel they belong in the description of the 'mob'.

I am not a mysogynist. My wife will attest to that as I've been happily married for 8 years to a woman that makes more money than I. The fact of the matter is that the particulars of the situation (rock band, sex-symbol male vocalist, largely female fan base) bring out a particular psycho-fan that is mostly female.

I, being male, am most definitely in the minority as far as rabid journey fans go. In fact, If I weren't a guitarist, I probably wouldn't be into jrny at all...as Neal's playing is what originally pulled me in. Most guys originally got into journey because their women got into them (or potential women)....

Unfortunately, the online scene for Journey is most definitely nasty...if you can't see it, you're probably too close. Step back and watch how these posters interact...and also watch how quickly moderation prevents them from acting like adults...When you treat people like children, they act like children

[jrnychick]

Hi Frank--thanks for the clarification!!! There is no need to apologize for your remarks (at least to me). I didn't take them personally. The general "vibe" here is that ALL of the women who frequent BT are as you described, so I wanted to make sure that all of the guys here know that's not necessarily the case. Not all of us are bored housewives. I never knew that some of the women were emailing asking for band members' addresses, etc. It would never dawn on me to do that. I can understand why you got out of that job! In the last week, I have been saddened to see fans turn on each other the way they have.

I do agree that a message board is like a little society of its own. When allowed to run its course, you will have those who emerge as leaders who maintain the tone of the board. I agree that over-moderation can be a bad thing. Just like a boss who has to have his/her finger in every pie, who doesn't allow employees to solve their own problems and accomplish their own goals. I think though that some people need to learn to adapt to the situation they are in. For example, in an office setting do you really have free speech? I'm sure most of us need to temper our remarks with a bit of common sense. We all have to be careful about what we say if we want to remain in that setting. Almost 2 years ago, I was working in an office with a complete jerk for a boss. She was the worst. When I quit, I wanted so badly to tell her how much I hated her guts, but I bit my tongue. In my industry, life can be difficult if you burn bridges. So I kept my comments to myself. But I could go on and on about that forever!

[Enigma869]

Red: Was this posted on BT? I just did a quick look for it, and couldn't find it. I am just wondering what the responses are to it on BT.

And John, being horny isn't always a bad thing.... just ask my husband.

To all you men out there: Not all of us women who frequent BT are as generally described. I'm under 40, in pretty good physical shape (I'm working on it), happily married and a mom, and I run my own business and make a good living. I have a great life. I still reserve the right to say that Steve A. and JSS are both pretty darn HOT. Sorry Perryheads, but I never thought SP is attractive. There are many of us women who can appreciate a good-looking man without worshipping him.

Hey Jrnychick...

I agree with you, wholeheartedly! I'm a 36 year old, VERY healthy male, with a very amorous wife That said, please understand that my ongoing war with Jackass Talk really isn't about a woman making an observation about the "hotness" of Augeri or Jeff. My problem with that place is every freakin' thread turned into this dribbling shit, and the useless mods on that site allowed this to happen!

You actually said something in your post that sort of goes to my larger point. Your comment that you never thought SP was attractive. My point has always been...who really gives a rat's ass what the guy looks like? He was the most amazing singer I ever heard in my life, and that's always been my argument...It's about the music (which it NEVER is at Jackass Talk)! As big of a Perry fan as I've always been...Perry decided he didn't feel like singing any longer, so I moved on, because I wanted to hear the MUSIC!!!!! I think Faith Hill is an absolute beautiful woman, but, I can assure you that if I were a fan of her music...I'd talk about her music and not about her female body parts that I wanted to molest!!!!

To those who want to point on the "Sex" thread on this site...Sorry, it just isn't the same. Having one thread devoted to all of our "hornieness" is more than okay with me. We are adults, afterall! There are many more threads on this site that are worth reading than I've seen on Jackass Talk in 5 years!

John from Boston

[ohsherrie]

Interesting read. I wasn't around BT when it started and was never a regular poster there even before I got banned. This statement by one of it's creators explains a lot of things, but it would probably take one of those psychology doctorals for it all to make sense.

I think messageboards are reflections of real life society, but sometimes without the restrictions that our roles in real life society can place on us. The people with the most restrictive or suppressive real life situations may use the comparative "freedom" that the anonymity of the internet affords them to unleash their demons. The age range of the average Journey fan would tend to make that the case, to a lesser or greater degree, with both male and female fans. Most of us have settled into lives that have become routine and a little stifling at times. Admittedly, but not proudly, generally the female fans do seem to have more demons to unleash. Maybe that's a reflection of the real life that society has imposed on a lot women in this age range. Once you settle in to an online community, whether BT, MR, Perryville or even VH1 and become known as the personality that you've displayed there, the anonymity isn't as important anymore because for good or bad, you've effectively become that person to your online community.

Just a thought. A long one.

[Enigma869]

Trust me, if this ever got onto back talk, I'm sure I'd have upside down crosses burned in my front lawn and bricks wrapped with tailed-jackets thrown through my front window!

Funny...I thought this same exact thing, strangegrey. This posting wouldn't last on Jackass Talk for more than 30 seconds before CJ or one of her henchmen blew it up and then sent you a nasty email for daring to post against "the establishment". Honestly, I think anyone who posted over at BT for any length of time would know there is a whole lot of truth to everything you said! It's just so refreshing to hear someone else say it! I still hope that the powers that be blow that place up and fire all the mods for complete incompetence and start all over again! If that's not possible, simply close the forums down for good, as the way they are presently run are a complete embarrassment to most Journey fans!!!!

John from Boston

[jrnychick]

Red: Was this posted on BT? I just did a quick look for it, and couldn't find it. I am just wondering what the responses are to it on BT.

And John, being horny isn't always a bad thing.... just ask my husband.

To all you men out there: Not all of us women who frequent BT are as generally described. I'm under 40, in pretty good physical shape (I'm working on it), happily married and a mom, and I run my own business and make a good living. I have a great life. I still reserve the right to say that Steve A. and JSS are both pretty darn HOT. Sorry Perryheads, but I never thought SP is attractive. There are many of us women who can appreciate a good-looking man without worshipping him.

Hey Jrnychick...

I agree with you, wholeheartedly! I'm a 36 year old, VERY healthy male, with a very amorous wife That said, please understand that my ongoing war with Jackass Talk really isn't about a woman making an observation about the "hotness" of Augeri or Jeff. My problem with that place is every freakin' thread turned into this dribbling shit, and the useless mods on that site allowed this to happen!

You actually said something in your post that sort of goes to my larger point. Your comment that you never thought SP was attractive. My point has always been...who really gives a rat's ass what the guy looks like? He was the most amazing singer I ever heard in my life, and that's always been my argument...It's about the music (which it NEVER is at Jackass Talk)! As big of a Perry fan as I've always been...Perry decided he didn't feel like singing any longer, so I moved on, because I wanted to hear the MUSIC!!!!! I think Faith Hill is an absolute beautiful woman, but, I can assure you that if I were a fan of her music...I'd talk about her music and not about her female body parts that I wanted to molest!!!!

To those who want to point on the "Sex" thread on this site...Sorry, it just isn't the same. Having one thread devoted to all of our "hornieness" is more than okay with me. We are adults, afterall! There are many more threads on this site that are worth reading than I've seen on Jackass Talk in 5 years!

John from Boston

Hi John--I was just having a little fun with you! I agree that it can be a bit much on BT. Some people who consistently bump threads several times a day in support of one member or another seem obsessive. I only brought up my thoughts on the physical attributes of the Steves and Jeff to make the point that I think it's OK to say you find someone attractive without being an obsessed fan. I get your point that it appears that's all some people think about though! I have no interest in reading about SP's hair either. And frankly, I find the talk about Jeff needing to change his wardrobe annoying. As long as he can sing and put on a great show, who cares what he's wearing? I must admit though that I do enjoy looking at a nice pic of Neal, Jeff, or Steve A. once in a while!

[strangegrey]

I never knew that some of the women were emailing asking for band members' addresses, etc. It would never dawn on me to do that. I can understand why you got out of that job! In the last week, I have been saddened to see fans turn on each other the way they have.

Well, that wasn't the reason...and some might even tell you that I was pushed out...I remember returning to the site one day...and noticed that my name was no longer on that 'credits' page...and said to myself "I guess the door finally hit me in the ass" Castles Burning was shut down, which was my baby. That board was ALL about guitar playing...and there was VERY little fighting there. Most of the fighting was on the Main board...so I never understood why (CB got the axe)....Ironic that it's back...regardless, I just stopped putting any effort into moderation, stopped visiting the site...and I was eventually removed from the works.

The requests weren't day in and day out. But they were enough to paint the picture I alluded to above.

[fredinator]

(Red13, I thought those were pretty funny, too!) I'm a little concerned that if Journey decides to close that forum, where would "the mob" go? Over here? I really hope they keep it open and maybe revamp it... I think it's got a lot of good information and worthwhile to keep; do you?