MR

Since I know many of you that visit this Journey fourm are doctors I have a question for you.

What was lost in the Roger Clemens controversy was that soon after Debbie Clemens was injected with HGH she won two arm wrestling championships in the Houston area and she also added 6-8 MPH on her fastball with her tighter buttocks.

So I was wondering if Herbie is correct about Steve's voice would HGH or any other current drug that is now out there help him in it's recovery.

I am being serious with this question.


No Holiday Inn wannabe answers please!!

In all seriousness, delete this thread Andrew.

yogi wrote:Since I know many of you that visit this Journey fourm are doctors I have a question for you.

What was lost in the Roger Clemens controversy was that soon after Debbie Clemens was injected with HGH she won two arm wrestling championships in the Houston area and she also added 6-8 MPH on her fastball with her tighter buttocks.

So I was wondering if Herbie is correct about Steve's voice would HGH or any other current drug that is now out there help him in it's recovery.

I am being serious with this question.


No Holiday Inn wannabe answers please!!

Rick - LOL

Steroids are used in medicine to decrease inflammation. The anabolic ones the sports guys use are illegal and are different than those used medicinally.

You don't want to have to use even the legal ones for a long period of time because of the side effects. No effect on voice that I've ever heard.

PS - not a doc, an ER nurse for 30 years.

HGH I believe is used to restore certain muscle groups.

It( a type of HGH) is even perscribed when kids are not growing to proper adult height( falling off the growth curve is how it is medically put).

I am serious about this question.


Could a modern drug such as HGH or a type of HGH help Steve recover his voice prowess, if it is as lost as some say???

Steve Perry hasn't toured in 14 years. I suspect his voice is in great shape because of that rest. I'm also quite sure that HGH or some of today's newer medicines would help him recover much faster from gig to gig should he ever decide to tour again.

This doesn't need discussion.

Rick wrote:This doesn't need discussion.

Agreed, but it is a lot tamer than some of the topics! It'll fizzle.

It would NOT be in great shape if he has not really used it in 14 years.

If it were baseball, and pitching was the analogy it would almost be like having to learn to pitch again and to try and throw a 90+ fastball if that is what you once could throw before.

I would bet that there are some drugs such as Human Growth Hormone that could help him.

As for HGH, from what I have read the side effects are minimal if used the way a doctor perscribes them.

And Ricky..... why does this not need to be discussed?? HGH is perscribed for tons of reasons. For a fact many young children are given this drug to help them grow. It seems like a damn good youth saving drug if used correctly.
Google it.

Saint John wrote:Steve Perry hasn't toured in 14 years. I suspect his voice is in great shape because of that rest. I'm also quite sure that HGH or some of today's newer medicines would help him recover much faster from gig to gig should he ever decide to tour again.

I disagree a little bit.. but only going of off the fact that my favorite singers who still sing really well..credit it too..well..living a pretty healthy life..but also USING their voices.
Granted though..not to a point of over doing it either.

It's like an instrument..a muscle..use it or lose it. I know what you mean though..he hasn't been using it like he would be if touring..

The prolonged use of medicinal steroids such as Prednisone, etc, will cause long term damage to the vocal cords. Steve, who is asthmatic, was known to have a steroid inhaler on stage on the last few tours. Trying to manage asthma in that manner is disastrous on vocal cords. Trying to use it to reduce inflamation on already damaged vocal cords is beyond disastrous. Basically, if you use a steroid inhaler and don't rinse your mouth out, you are at a high risk of developing thrush, or basically a yeast infection in your mouth, tongue, etc. Steroid inhalers are really never recommended for singers, because the spray does pass over the vocal cords into your airway, and prolonged use WILL develop yeast infections actually on the vocal cords. I have heard that Steve Augeri did suffer these infections periodically, but his diagnosis if I remember was some long word starting with a "P" which is not actually an infection or nodule/polyp but actually a muscular degeneration of the vocal cords.

Is Human Growth Hormone classified as a steroid???

Whoops, I thought the "Steve" in the OP was referring to Augeri.

No steroids or growth hormones will help any voice in the long run, again, see previous post with regard to Augeri. Vocal training and proper use and lifestyle can help Perry maintain the voice that he has. A natural range and tone in the human voice is common, and varies widely from person to person. You can't expect Michael Jordan to perform at the level he did in the 80's....Nor any athlete over a certain age. It's the same way with singers. Perry's voice has aged gracefully....His instrument has changed over the years but I don't know of any permanent damage (a botched nodule operation a la Julie Andrews) that would prevent him from singing in a manner that suits his current voice.

Also....The arguments about other singers such as Henley or Jon Anderson etc is irrelevant...My grandmother had jet black hair until she passed away in her late 80s. Doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of other woman out there with gray hair or black or brown hair at that age. It only means everyone's genetically different. It goes the same for the voice.

Rick,

I am sure the picnic table and wombat Assembly Lines are more your speed but I was asking a serious question. Note the title!

mistiejourney wrote:Steroids are used in medicine to decrease inflammation. The anabolic ones the sports guys use are illegal and are different than those used medicinally.

You don't want to have to use even the legal ones for a long period of time because of the side effects. No effect on voice that I've ever heard.

PS - not a doc, an ER nurse for 30 years.

Learned a little about the steriods in Brett Hart's book 'Hitman: My Real Life in the Cartoon World of Wrestling'. I used to be into wrestling years and years ago when the Harts were big. Great book on the world of wrestling, it's characters , and the huge Hart family growing up in Calgary. Great technical wrestler, classy guy, well respected by his peers and great humanitarian. Quite an interesting read.

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Hit ... ret%20hart

Jeremey wrote:The prolonged use of medicinal steroids such as Prednisone, etc, will cause long term damage to the vocal cords. Steve, who is asthmatic, was known to have a steroid inhaler on stage on the last few tours. Trying to manage asthma in that manner is disastrous on vocal cords. Trying to use it to reduce inflamation on already damaged vocal cords is beyond disastrous. Basically, if you use a steroid inhaler and don't rinse your mouth out, you are at a high risk of developing thrush, or basically a yeast infection in your mouth, tongue, etc. Steroid inhalers are really never recommended for singers, because the spray does pass over the vocal cords into your airway, and prolonged use WILL develop yeast infections actually on the vocal cords. I have heard that Steve Augeri did suffer these infections periodically, but his diagnosis if I remember was some long word starting with a "P" which is not actually an infection or nodule/polyp but actually a muscular degeneration of the vocal cords.

Whoa, Jeremey, thanks for the info - never have seen it used in the singing arena, so didn't know a lot about it!

mistiejourney wrote:
Whoa, Jeremey, thanks for the info - never have seen it used in the singing arena, so didn't know a lot about it!

I've been around it enough to know what to do and what not to do, what is safe, etc...All professional singers will get a boost from short term steroid use at some point...When it's necessary and/or a show is on the line, you do what you have to do to get by. That's what all the "rock doc" references are in smokinggun's tour riders.

Just spent time Thursday at the Duke Voice Center. Amazing place...I've been going there periodically for checkups over the past several years and Sabrina had nodes removed about 6 years ago there. Pretty cool stuff...My Dr's clients include James Earl Jones, Clay Aiken, Chris Brown, and (surprisingly) Tom Keifer (sp?) from Cinderella, among others. Bad news was my nose is pretty messed up for a singer & I'm going to be going back late next month to have some sinus work done...

Vocal cords are in top shape though, so that's always good.

I have slight asthsma and have an Albuterol inhalor I keep with me. I'm on Allegra and Pulmacort to help keep the asthma at a minimum so I don't need the inhaler. With any inhaler though, you do need to rince your mouth out once you've used it to avoid problems.

As for the prednosone, I've thrown my back out 2 times now and that's what they gave me both times. It worked miracles. I was actually walking within a week and a half. They prescribe it in taper form. 6 pills for the first day, 5 the next, then 4, etc... The shit is addicting, so they ween you off it quickly. It's good stuff if used the correct way.

Jeremey wrote:

mistiejourney wrote:
Whoa, Jeremey, thanks for the info - never have seen it used in the singing arena, so didn't know a lot about it!

I've been around it enough to know what to do and what not to do, what is safe, etc...All professional singers will get a boost from short term steroid use at some point...When it's necessary and/or a show is on the line, you do what you have to do to get by. That's what all the "rock doc" references are in smokinggun's tour riders.

Just spent time Thursday at the Duke Voice Center. Amazing place...I've been going there periodically for checkups over the past several years and Sabrina had nodes removed about 6 years ago there. Pretty cool stuff...My Dr's clients include James Earl Jones, Clay Aiken, Chris Brown, and (surprisingly) Tom Keifer (sp?) from Cinderella, among others. Bad news was my nose is pretty messed up for a singer & I'm going to be going back late next month to have some sinus work done...

Vocal cords are in top shape though, so that's always good.

All my vocalist friends down Jagermeister to keep their vocal chords in shape

T-Bone wrote:I have slight asthsma and have an Albuterol inhalor I keep with me. I'm on Allegra and Pulmacort to help keep the asthma at a minimum so I don't need the inhaler. With any inhaler though, you do need to rince your mouth out once you've used it to avoid problems.

As for the prednosone, I've thrown my back out 2 times now and that's what they gave me both times. It worked miracles. I was actually walking within a week and a half. They prescribe it in taper form. 6 pills for the first day, 5 the next, then 4, etc... The shit is addicting, so they ween you off it quickly. It's good stuff if used the correct way.

I too suffer from seasonal allergies which triggers terrible asthma attacks. Never really took a maintenance inhaler. The albuterol works great for emergencies. Right now my allergies and sinuses are in full attack mode...Plus just had a 3 hour band rehearsal so my whole head is on fire tonight.

T-Bone wrote:

Jeremey wrote:

mistiejourney wrote:
Whoa, Jeremey, thanks for the info - never have seen it used in the singing arena, so didn't know a lot about it!

I've been around it enough to know what to do and what not to do, what is safe, etc...All professional singers will get a boost from short term steroid use at some point...When it's necessary and/or a show is on the line, you do what you have to do to get by. That's what all the "rock doc" references are in smokinggun's tour riders.

Just spent time Thursday at the Duke Voice Center. Amazing place...I've been going there periodically for checkups over the past several years and Sabrina had nodes removed about 6 years ago there. Pretty cool stuff...My Dr's clients include James Earl Jones, Clay Aiken, Chris Brown, and (surprisingly) Tom Keifer (sp?) from Cinderella, among others. Bad news was my nose is pretty messed up for a singer & I'm going to be going back late next month to have some sinus work done...

Vocal cords are in top shape though, so that's always good.

All my vocalist friends down Jagermeister to keep their vocal chords in shape

If that's the case I should have auditioned for Journey. Got hammered last night on Skyy Vodka and Bud Light, but Jager is usually one of my poisons...though I think anyone that does "Jager Bombs" should have their eyes gouged out with a rusty steak knife. What a disgusting drink.

Saint John wrote:

T-Bone wrote:

Jeremey wrote:

mistiejourney wrote:
Whoa, Jeremey, thanks for the info - never have seen it used in the singing arena, so didn't know a lot about it!

I've been around it enough to know what to do and what not to do, what is safe, etc...All professional singers will get a boost from short term steroid use at some point...When it's necessary and/or a show is on the line, you do what you have to do to get by. That's what all the "rock doc" references are in smokinggun's tour riders.

Just spent time Thursday at the Duke Voice Center. Amazing place...I've been going there periodically for checkups over the past several years and Sabrina had nodes removed about 6 years ago there. Pretty cool stuff...My Dr's clients include James Earl Jones, Clay Aiken, Chris Brown, and (surprisingly) Tom Keifer (sp?) from Cinderella, among others. Bad news was my nose is pretty messed up for a singer & I'm going to be going back late next month to have some sinus work done...

Vocal cords are in top shape though, so that's always good.

All my vocalist friends down Jagermeister to keep their vocal chords in shape

If that's the case I should have auditioned for Journey. Got hammered last night on Skyy Vodka and Bud Light, but Jager is usually one of my poisons...though I think anyone that does "Jager Bombs" should have their eyes gouged out with a rusty steak knife. What a disgusting drink.

Oddly enough, I don't really care for Jager, and I don't really care for Red Bull, but I do like Jager-Bombs

T-Bone wrote:

Saint John wrote:

T-Bone wrote:

Jeremey wrote:

mistiejourney wrote:
Whoa, Jeremey, thanks for the info - never have seen it used in the singing arena, so didn't know a lot about it!

I've been around it enough to know what to do and what not to do, what is safe, etc...All professional singers will get a boost from short term steroid use at some point...When it's necessary and/or a show is on the line, you do what you have to do to get by. That's what all the "rock doc" references are in smokinggun's tour riders.

Just spent time Thursday at the Duke Voice Center. Amazing place...I've been going there periodically for checkups over the past several years and Sabrina had nodes removed about 6 years ago there. Pretty cool stuff...My Dr's clients include James Earl Jones, Clay Aiken, Chris Brown, and (surprisingly) Tom Keifer (sp?) from Cinderella, among others. Bad news was my nose is pretty messed up for a singer & I'm going to be going back late next month to have some sinus work done...

Vocal cords are in top shape though, so that's always good.

All my vocalist friends down Jagermeister to keep their vocal chords in shape

If that's the case I should have auditioned for Journey. Got hammered last night on Skyy Vodka and Bud Light, but Jager is usually one of my poisons...though I think anyone that does "Jager Bombs" should have their eyes gouged out with a rusty steak knife. What a disgusting drink.

Oddly enough, I don't really care for Jager, and I don't really care for Red Bull, but I do like Jager-Bombs

what about Cactus Coolers???

Jeremey wrote:The prolonged use of medicinal steroids such as Prednisone, etc, will cause long term damage to the vocal cords. Steve, who is asthmatic, was known to have a steroid inhaler on stage on the last few tours. Trying to manage asthma in that manner is disastrous on vocal cords. Trying to use it to reduce inflamation on already damaged vocal cords is beyond disastrous. Basically, if you use a steroid inhaler and don't rinse your mouth out, you are at a high risk of developing thrush, or basically a yeast infection in your mouth, tongue, etc. Steroid inhalers are really never recommended for singers, because the spray does pass over the vocal cords into your airway, and prolonged use WILL develop yeast infections actually on the vocal cords. I have heard that Steve Augeri did suffer these infections periodically, but his diagnosis if I remember was some long word starting with a "P" which is not actually an infection or nodule/polyp but actually a muscular degeneration of the vocal cords.

Just to clarify ,Prednisone is a Corticosteroid which is not the same as what people think when they hear the term"steroid" which refers to anabolic steroids...these are 2 different products with 2 different results .Prednisone inhalers are for long term treatment of asthma. If Steve was seen taking shots from an inhaler its more likely that it was albuterol which is a bronchodilator(its much more common for people to be carrying a fast action bronchodilator like albuterol than a prednisone inhaler, to deal with shortness of breath, wheezing or any other excercise induced asthma type symptoms)

Jeremy, this may be the term used with Steve A. ( Presbylaryngeus) its a weakening(bowing) of the vocal fold which basically leads to a horse voice/weak voice.

yulog wrote:

Jeremey wrote:The prolonged use of medicinal steroids such as Prednisone, etc, will cause long term damage to the vocal cords. Steve, who is asthmatic, was known to have a steroid inhaler on stage on the last few tours. Trying to manage asthma in that manner is disastrous on vocal cords. Trying to use it to reduce inflamation on already damaged vocal cords is beyond disastrous. Basically, if you use a steroid inhaler and don't rinse your mouth out, you are at a high risk of developing thrush, or basically a yeast infection in your mouth, tongue, etc. Steroid inhalers are really never recommended for singers, because the spray does pass over the vocal cords into your airway, and prolonged use WILL develop yeast infections actually on the vocal cords. I have heard that Steve Augeri did suffer these infections periodically, but his diagnosis if I remember was some long word starting with a "P" which is not actually an infection or nodule/polyp but actually a muscular degeneration of the vocal cords.

Just to clarify ,Prednisone is a Corticosteroid which is not the same as what people think when they hear the term"steroid" which refers to anabolic steroids...these are 2 different products with 2 different results .Prednisone inhalers are for long term treatment of asthma. If Steve was seen taking shots from an inhaler its more likely that it was albuterol which is a bronchodilator(its much more common for people to be carrying a fast action bronchodilator like albuterol than a prednisone inhaler, to deal with shortness of breath, wheezing or any other excercise induced asthma type symptoms)

Jeremy, this may be the term used with Steve A. ( Presbylaryngeus) its a weakening(bowing) of the vocal fold which basically leads to a horse voice/weak voice.

exactly...

Jeremey wrote:

mistiejourney wrote:
Whoa, Jeremey, thanks for the info - never have seen it used in the singing arena, so didn't know a lot about it!

I've been around it enough to know what to do and what not to do, what is safe, etc...All professional singers will get a boost from short term steroid use at some point...When it's necessary and/or a show is on the line, you do what you have to do to get by. That's what all the "rock doc" references are in smokinggun's tour riders.

Just spent time Thursday at the Duke Voice Center. Amazing place...I've been going there periodically for checkups over the past several years and Sabrina had nodes removed about 6 years ago there. Pretty cool stuff...My Dr's clients include James Earl Jones, Clay Aiken, Chris Brown, and (surprisingly) Tom Keifer (sp?) from Cinderella, among others. Bad news was my nose is pretty messed up for a singer & I'm going to be going back late next month to have some sinus work done...

Vocal cords are in top shape though, so that's always good.

How long will you have to recover from the surgery before you sing and will it affect your technique at all?

But in this drug age are there any out there that could strengthen the vocal chords?

From what I have read HGH and drugs like it are considered 'wonder' drugs. They actually can restore youth in certain muscles with limited side effects. HGH and other similiar type of drugs are NOT classified as steroids. It is almost like they restore youth so the muscles can recover faster and as strong as they were in the individuals prime. This restoring of muscles totheir strength in youth can last for years with minimal side effects if you follow a doctors instructions.

mistiejourney wrote:
How long will you have to recover from the surgery before you sing and will it affect your technique at all?

Recovery will be about 3 weeks, and it won't affect my voice/technique at all. It will improve my breathing greatly. I currently have a polyp the size of an almond basically obstructing my entire left nasal passage, and my septum is deviated to the right by about 45 degree angle. This gives me about 30% efficiency in nasal breathing and having all of this corrected should be a huge boost in power and stamina. I'm actually really looking forward to it (not the recovery though...ugghh!)

yulog wrote:
Jeremy, this may be the term used with Steve A. ( Presbylaryngeus) its a weakening(bowing) of the vocal fold which basically leads to a horse voice/weak voice.

That's what it is!

Jeremey wrote:

mistiejourney wrote:
How long will you have to recover from the surgery before you sing and will it affect your technique at all?

Recovery will be about 3 weeks, and it won't affect my voice/technique at all. It will improve my breathing greatly. I currently have a polyp the size of an almond basically obstructing my entire left nasal passage, and my septum is deviated to the right by about 45 degree angle. This gives me about 30% efficiency in nasal breathing and having all of this corrected should be a huge boost in power and stamina. I'm actually really looking forward to it (not the recovery though...ugghh!)

Good luck Jeremy.

yogi wrote:But in this drug age are there any out there that could strengthen the vocal chords?

From what I have read HGH and drugs like it are considered 'wonder' drugs. They actually can restore youth in certain muscles with limited side effects. HGH and other similiar type of drugs are NOT classified as steroids. It is almost like they restore youth so the muscles can recover faster and as strong as they were in the individuals prime. This restoring of muscles totheir strength in youth can last for years with minimal side effects if you follow a doctors instructions.

While the vocal cords are muscles, I can't imagine HGH or any other kind of bulking/weight lifting type supplement having that great of an effect on them. If you want really bulky vocal cords to sing like Ciaphas from Jesus Christ Superstar, that might work. But regular exercise and diet is what you really need.