MR

The DJIA dropped more points today than it has in 7 years...Not good! See ya later Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch! This, along with the DREADFUL U.S. housing market, should be great for consumer confidence! This economy is just motoring along...

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/15/news/co ... tm?cnn=yes



John from Boston

been watching this all day.. oil down 5 bucks as well...

Wow that's horrible...both tied into the housing/mortgage markets. I'm sure there will be more to come too.

It's about time to increase my 401k contributions to 15% Buy, buy, buy!!!

My economy is doing great.

Just dont panic. easier said than done.

RedWingFan wrote:It's about time to increase my 401k contributions to 15% Buy, buy, buy!!!

Yep...I'm just starting out my investing as a college student and it's the perfect time.

BofA is becoming quite the giant, first taking care of Country wide and now dropping 50 billion for Meryl Lynch. They're some confident guys but I think they just scared the hell out of Washington Mutual.

Gunbot wrote:BofA is becoming quite the giant, first taking care of Country wide and now dropping 50 billion for Meryl Lynch. They're some confident guys but I think they just scared the hell out of Washington Mutual.

The World Bank is still king.....has been for years. And I don't see that EVER changing.

Now, AIG needs 40 billion dollars to keep itself from folding. Last 3 quarters are all at a loss.

National Board Of Steve Jaskoviak Requests $10 Billion Bailout
The Onion
December 19, 2001 | Issue 37•46

ROCHESTER, MN—Steve Jaskoviak, president of the National Board of Steve Jaskoviak, lobbied Congress for an unprecedented $10 billion bailout package Monday. "In order to continue providing Americans with a full range of Steve Jaskoviak-related services, it is crucial that I receive this aid," Jaskoviak told Congress. "This relief package will not only will cover my $5,612 Visa debt, but numerous administrative costs, as well."

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/31372

AIG has till Wednesday... or they will declare...

AIG is the "Achilles Heel" in this whole scenario.... they don't even know what they have asset wise.... THATS' the scary thing....

This is now about "confidence"... specifically consumer confidence... and when Washington Mutual goes belly up, "Joe Consumer" will get it right between the eyes....

Consumer spending is gone... done...

Look at M3, once the measure of the money supply (and equal to real inflation) is at 17.5%... that's insane...

Look at "real unemployemnt" - not the pap number the government tells us... easily 10%... again INSANE

This isn't over... not by a longshot...


I thought Meredith Whitney (analyst for Openheimer) said it pretty well..

Unknown Value

"This is my explanation. The central truth about Wall Street firms just now is that nobody knows what they're worth.

Of course, nobody ever really knows. In the best of times, Wall Street firms cannot divulge their positions without exposing themselves to their market predators. In the worst of times (now), their positions are so complex that the people who run them don't fully understand what they own.

Even if they did, those assets are illiquid, hard to price, and changing in value from moment to moment. If Robert Rubin didn't know that Citigroup had written tens of billions of dollars of liquidity puts -- or even what, exactly, a liquidity put was -- how can he do anything but pity the poor fellow whose job it is, from the outside, to figure out what Citigroup is worth?

``You can't really know,'' says Whitney. ``The financial disclosure is terrible. They're all either liars or they don't know -- but I assume they really just don't know.''

Gunbot wrote:Now, AIG needs 40 billion dollars to keep itself from folding. Last 3 quarters are all at a loss.

Does this mean I'm gonna have to shop for new car insurance?

Gunbot wrote:BofA is becoming quite the giant, first taking care of Country wide and now dropping 50 billion for Meryl Lynch. They're some confident guys but I think they just scared the hell out of Washington Mutual.

When there is blood on the street, BUY BUY BUY!!!!!

slucero wrote:AIG has till Wednesday... or they will declare...

AIG is the "Achilles Heel" in this whole scenario.... they don't even know what they have asset wise.... THATS' the scary thing....

This is now about "confidence"... specifically consumer confidence... and when Washington Mutual goes belly up, "Joe Consumer" will get it right between the eyes....

Consumer spending is gone... done...

Look at M3, once the measure of the money supply (and equal to real inflation) is at 17.5%... that's insane...

Look at "real unemployemnt" - not the pap number the government tells us... easily 10%... again INSANE

This isn't over... not by a longshot...


I thought Meredith Whitney (analyst for Openheimer) said it pretty well..

Unknown Value

"This is my explanation. The central truth about Wall Street firms just now is that nobody knows what they're worth.

Of course, nobody ever really knows. In the best of times, Wall Street firms cannot divulge their positions without exposing themselves to their market predators. In the worst of times (now), their positions are so complex that the people who run them don't fully understand what they own.

Even if they did, those assets are illiquid, hard to price, and changing in value from moment to moment. If Robert Rubin didn't know that Citigroup had written tens of billions of dollars of liquidity puts -- or even what, exactly, a liquidity put was -- how can he do anything but pity the poor fellow whose job it is, from the outside, to figure out what Citigroup is worth?

``You can't really know,'' says Whitney. ``The financial disclosure is terrible. They're all either liars or they don't know -- but I assume they really just don't know.''

This is unbelievable...I kinda wonder WTF their external auditors were doing...and what their CFO was doing.

Saint John wrote:My economy is doing great.

It's great that you're never affected by the economy, SJ. It doesn't change the fact that the U.S. Economy is a DISASTER. Three out of the top five investment banks are GONE...Out of business! The country's largest mortgage lender is GONE! We now have Fannie and Freddie in government receivership. This is just flat out ugly. On another note...do you not have any 401K or retirement account? It seems odd that you're never affected by the market that afffects everyone else in the country.


John from Boston

Enigma869 wrote:It doesn't change the fact that the U.S. Economy is a DISASTER.

Yeah, there are soup lines on all 4 corners of my block.

I'm not sure how many people actually sat through that 75 minute speech by Lindsey Williams about, 'The Energy Non-crisis'

But I believe it ALL. IF Iran starts offering their oil at dirt cheap prices, the american economy is OVER. Selling oil cheaply, while also making the main currency the Euro, will spell disaster for the US.

The World Bank controls the oil industry, and way back when - Kissenger sold our souls to the Sheiks and Shakes in order to pay for the National Debt. You and I are being taxed through gas prices to pay for all the spending going on in Washington.

Just another example of Taxation w/o representation......I implore everyone to check that video out.....

[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147[/quote][/url]

StocktontoMalone wrote:I'm not sure how many people actually sat through that 75 minute speech by Lindsey Williams about, 'The Energy Non-crisis'

But I believe it ALL. IF Iran starts offering their oil at dirt cheap prices, the american economy is OVER. Selling oil cheaply, while also making the main currency the Euro, will spell disaster for the US.

The World Bank controls the oil industry, and way back when - Kissenger sold our souls to the Sheiks and Shakes in order to pay for the National Debt. You and I are being taxed through gas prices to pay for all the spending going on in Washington.

Just another example of Taxation w/o representation......I implore everyone to check that video out.....

[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147

[/url][/quote]

All the oil suppliers have to do is stop taking payment in USD... a simple change to Euro is all that will be necessary to BURY the US economy...

UPDATE: AIG has to raise $75 Billion dollars by tomorrow...

Enigma869 wrote:

Saint John wrote:My economy is doing great.

It's great that you're never affected by the economy, SJ. It doesn't change the fact that the U.S. Economy is a DISASTER. Three out of the top five investment banks are GONE...Out of business! The country's largest mortgage lender is GONE! We now have Fannie and Freddie in government receivership. This is just flat out ugly. On another note...do you not have any 401K or retirement account? It seems odd that you're never affected by the market that afffects everyone else in the country.


John from Boston

If it hasn't effected everyone already, it will by the time this is all over. Mark my words.

slucero wrote:UPDATE: AIG has to raise $75 Billion dollars by tomorrow...

Holy shit! This is getting worse by the hour. If WaMu goes belly up the FDIC fund will be wiped out unless Congress replenishes them. Can you say Big Bank runs. This whole financial system is a house of cards based on confidence.

Everyone needs to read this. Although he blames the Republicans and not everyone (including myself) agree with that, this article really hits a raw nerve.

http://kunstler.com/mags_diary24.html

JrnyScarab wrote:

slucero wrote:UPDATE: AIG has to raise $75 Billion dollars by tomorrow...

Holy shit! This is getting worse by the hour. If WaMu goes belly up the FDIC fund will be wiped out unless Congress replenishes them. Can you say Big Bank runs. This whole financial system is a house of cards based on confidence.

Everyone needs to read this. Although he blames the Republicans and not everyone (including myself) agree with that, this article really hits a raw nerve.

http://kunstler.com/mags_diary24.html

September 15, 2008
A Ripe Moment

It turns out the real hurricane blew through Wall Street last week, not Galveston. This morning, Manhattan is strewn chest-deep with the debris of banking and at this hour (seven a.m.) nobody knows how far, deep, and wide the damage will spread. The fear, of course, is that we are witnessing a classic "house-of-cards" or "dominos-in-a-row," situation, and that the death of Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch will cascade into a generalized collapse of the entire consensus of value that supports mediums of exchange.

At least one thing ought to be clear: this has happened due to the negligence and misfeasance of the regulating authorities, namely the Republican Party, and that now all the hoopla surrounding Sarah Palin can be swept away revealing that group to be what they actually are: the party that wrecked America. I hope one or two Barack Obama campaign officials are reading this blog. You must commence the re-branding of the opposition right now. The Republicans must be clearly identified as, the party that wrecked America.

Between my voice students and my training studio, I've lost 40% of my client base in the past six months (some went to college, I grant you). My third business is down almost 60% from this time last year. I made more - $50,000 - in the first half of 2007 than I project to bring in for ALL of this year.

THIS is the "other" trickle-down effect.

On top of this, industrial output is down by the biggest amount in three years. Mostly because of the tanking auto industry. I'm afraid this mess is only going to get worse....a lot worse.

hey guys how does this translate on the strength of the dollar versus foreign currencies??

jourmapac wrote:hey guys how does this translate on the strength of the dollar versus foreign currencies??

The dollar will plummet as overseas investors rip money out of accounts.. which they are already DOING because AIG and Washington Mutual are going to FAIL without bailouts...

AIG fails and the bank runs start - think 1929.

slucero wrote:

jourmapac wrote:hey guys how does this translate on the strength of the dollar versus foreign currencies??

The dollar will plummet as overseas investors rip money out of accounts.. which they are already DOING because AIG and Washington Mutual are going to FAIL without bailouts...

AIG fails and the bank runs start - think 1929.

cr_p!! that sounds really bad, hope that does not happen !!!

slucero wrote:

jourmapac wrote:hey guys how does this translate on the strength of the dollar versus foreign currencies??

The dollar will plummet as overseas investors rip money out of accounts.. which they are already DOING because AIG and Washington Mutual are going to FAIL without bailouts...

AIG fails and the bank runs start - think 1929.

It's comments like this that lead to irrational panic.

If you were alive in 1987 you would know that the Dow lost 22% of it's worth in 1 day...also a 500 point drop...however the 500 point drop of yesterday was only 4%...so it's a matter of scale.

3 companies going under, and M-L was sold so technically it didn't go under, is really not that big a deal.

Lehman will come out of Chapter 11 just fine, hell the airlines in this country have had MULTIPLE bankruptcies since 2001 and they are pretty big too, and the world didn't end.

So relax everyone, take a look at the realities of everything and above all else, don't panic. This is just another blip, and it happens on occasion. Me, I am looking it like this is a buying opportunity, I plan on making a killing scooping up stocks people dumped in panic for low prices and then selling them in a year or 2 for a lot more.

God I love capitalism!

slucero wrote:

jourmapac wrote:hey guys how does this translate on the strength of the dollar versus foreign currencies??

The dollar will plummet as overseas investors rip money out of accounts.. which they are already DOING because AIG and Washington Mutual are going to FAIL without bailouts...

AIG fails and the bank runs start - think 1929.

The US dollar plummeted 2 years ago and has been shit ever since (a trend started a few years back when the current admnistration voiced support for a low dollar policy) - hence my drop in income over the last 18 months and my deep desire for a change of US government/policy.

It actually started a rally about 8 weeks ago that has seen things improve a little. So I don't think recent lows will be tested again, there seems to be some support now for the US dollar and cash investments over more speculative commodities.