MR

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SWITCHING/REPLACING SINGERS!

Just doing some YouTube surfing and checking out some of his performances of Journey songs and was just wondering why footage from some of the videos has him dead on with the key and others are down-tuned? I'm not putting him down by any means because he's an awesome talent. Just wondering if there's something that people know that I don't as far as this goes. Thanks

Nick

PianoMan,

I have no specific answers, but maybe this quote from Andrew's interview with Herbie Herbert sheds some light:

"Yeah [Kevin put out a Journey covers cd] last year and the thing is, I think the reason that he didn't get put in the band then is because, you know we're all, how old was Perry when he sang most of these songs, 30, 31, 32, 33, when you're in your 40s or 50's, forget about it. There's no chance, so Kevin was knocked down a half step. I'm not gonna go to a piano or guitar and try to figure that out. And he really intimated to me that this was done in the original key. Yeah, but barely, you know if you're a half step down from a major to a minor or whatever, you know, it's a significant change in the tonality and everything else. And for whatever reason, the band, Journey has always had an obsession with playing the songs in the original key. Despite the logic, the unavoidable logic, that if Steve Perry was still in the band, and I know that there's a giant public out there that would love nothing more, they're clueless to the fact that the guy can't sing anymore."

Here's a great song that convinced me Kevin was the man for the job.
Shame that the window of opportunity has come and gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzfBJaYegUM

The_Noble_Cause wrote:PianoMan,

I have no specific answers, but maybe this quote from Andrew's interview with Herbie Herbert sheds some light:

"Yeah [Kevin put out a Journey covers cd] last year and the thing is, I think the reason that he didn't get put in the band then is because, you know we're all, how old was Perry when he sang most of these songs, 30, 31, 32, 33, when you're in your 40s or 50's, forget about it. There's no chance, so Kevin was knocked down a half step. I'm not gonna go to a piano or guitar and try to figure that out. And he really intimated to me that this was done in the original key. Yeah, but barely, you know if you're a half step down from a major to a minor or whatever, you know, it's a significant change in the tonality and everything else. And for whatever reason, the band, Journey has always had an obsession with playing the songs in the original key. Despite the logic, the unavoidable logic, that if Steve Perry was still in the band, and I know that there's a giant public out there that would love nothing more, they're clueless to the fact that the guy can't sing anymore."

Here's a great song that convinced me Kevin was the man for the job.
Shame that the window of opportunity has come and gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzfBJaYegUM

Wow, that's a great song (almost sounds like a combination of Perry & Augeri in the style). Thanks for taking a shot at it, it kind of helps.

PianoMan1986 wrote:THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SWITCHING/REPLACING SINGERS!

Just doing some YouTube surfing and checking out some of his performances of Journey songs and was just wondering why footage from some of the videos has him dead on with the key and others are down-tuned? I'm not putting him down by any means because he's an awesome talent. Just wondering if there's something that people know that I don't as far as this goes. Thanks

Nick

Journey finally gets it and tunes down a half or whole, whatever, as needed to help preserve the lead vox pipes. Seems like they wouldn't do this for Steve A. Forienger tunes down as needed to accomidate Kelly and other live acts do this as well. There's nothing wrong with this, and you wouldn't even notice it if you were at the concert.....probably.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:PianoMan,

I have no specific answers, but maybe this quote from Andrew's interview with Herbie Herbert sheds some light:

"Yeah [Kevin put out a Journey covers cd] last year and the thing is, I think the reason that he didn't get put in the band then is because, you know we're all, how old was Perry when he sang most of these songs, 30, 31, 32, 33, when you're in your 40s or 50's, forget about it. There's no chance, so Kevin was knocked down a half step. I'm not gonna go to a piano or guitar and try to figure that out. And he really intimated to me that this was done in the original key. Yeah, but barely, you know if you're a half step down from a major to a minor or whatever, you know, it's a significant change in the tonality and everything else. And for whatever reason, the band, Journey has always had an obsession with playing the songs in the original key. Despite the logic, the unavoidable logic, that if Steve Perry was still in the band, and I know that there's a giant public out there that would love nothing more, they're clueless to the fact that the guy can't sing anymore."

Here's a great song that convinced me Kevin was the man for the job.
Shame that the window of opportunity has come and gone.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzfBJaYegUM

That two fires cd is just loaded with great songs..."River" could be the best song ,if not one of the top 3

I think the detuning kills a song but that's just my opinion. I have no issue with writing new music in a lower register to accommodate a singer's current range. I think Kevin's Two Fires work and even some of The Storm material reflects this approach. However, detuning old songs for a new singer doesn't make since to me as it really kills the tonality and emotion the song conveys. Maybe most folks can't tell the difference but I can.

I think a good comparison of a key change are the guitar tones generated with a standard E tuned guitar and a "drop D" tuned guitar. Have a listen to Neal and then have a listen to Nickelback. That's the difference between the two is one string being tuned at D or E. That's a full step down on one string of six. To me Neal's playing is angelic and the drop D stuff from Nickelback has an evil tone to it. But that's just me ... and it's a big deal in my opinion.

Here's an example of Separate Ways detuned and sang by Kevin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrERN3_U ... re=related

And here's an example of Separate Ways in it's original key as intended: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQbZRMLKozk or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkgFMzSngg0

Have a listen of the opening bars of both and the guitar tone of both songs and think about what emotion you feel when you hear both guitars on the opening. When I listen to the detuned version it makes me feel like I'm mad and it's time to fight and choke someone. The original version makes me feel like I'm a bit upset in a current relationship and need to sort things out. The original ties much closer to the lyrics of the song while the detuned version does not convey the same message lyrically and musically. Do you know what I mean?

Now back to the topic. I'd think a band like Journey would have a mix of new and old material to give the singer a "break on range duty" over the course of a show. If this still isn't enough, then bring another singer in to cover the high parts and share the lead (Deen or someone else) and carry on. Or, get another singer that can cover old material with the proper range if these crutches can't get it done. There are people out there that can sing the material in the original key.