Time for Cain/Perry

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Postby artist4perry » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:19 am

journey361 wrote:Well, you all made some valid points, i'm not going to sit here and pretend those points you brought to my attention are fruitfull. But Journey's songs are not played on the radio with AP. It's all about Perry, always has been, always will be. Cain said some things in VH1 that reared its ugly head. Even though its been salt living with pepper for so many years, is Cain really a good writer and player. Probably not. My opinion.


Yeah, Jon just sucks, he can't play piano at all. :wink: :lol:

http://youtu.be/uGHllVS2oHI

Seriously, I like Steve's singing but I have to wonder if your love and loyalty for Steve has hurt your ability to be objective.

I know Jon said some things that might have bugged you, but bands get on each others nerves. They say things and may even regret them later. They are human after all. And as much as I like Steve, I don't know he did not play his own part in doing or saying things he probably shouldn't have. Case in point, he learned to regret making them get rid of Ross and Smitty. He admitted as much. People are people and not without feet of clay. I met Jon, he is a nice guy.
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Postby slucero » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:19 am

journey361 wrote:Well, you all made some valid points, i'm not going to sit here and pretend those points you brought to my attention are fruitfull. But Journey's songs are not played on the radio with AP. It's all about Perry, always has been, always will be. Cain said some things in VH1 that reared its ugly head. Even though its been salt living with pepper for so many years, is Cain really a good writer and player. Probably not. My opinion.




From 1981 to 1983 -Journey was young, relevant and popular... in no small part due to Herbie's marketing genius.. and the backing (and money) of a major label, which was pretty much required to secure radio play

In 2012 - Journey is middle aged, relevant only to it's hardcore fans, and nowhere near as popular as they were in their heyday.... Herbie is retired... and there is no major label backing (money).. so no radio play

They know this, and accept it...

You should too.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
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Postby journey361 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:51 pm

I accept it but if thats the case, maybe Journey should hit on one Adam Lambert. Hell, it seems like everyone else is asking him to sing with them. And Perry had an unmatched backdoor vibrato. Backdoor vibrato isn't the type that colors the note at the end the word, it is there throughout the course of the vocals for each desired word. Not the BIG dipped vibrato. Perry had it and used it throughout his legendary run.
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Postby slucero » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:11 pm

journey361 wrote:I accept it but if thats the case, maybe Journey should hit on one Adam Lambert. Hell, it seems like everyone else is asking him to sing with them. And Perry had an unmatched backdoor vibrato. Backdoor vibrato isn't the type that colors the note at the end the word, it is there throughout the course of the vocals for each desired word. Not the BIG dipped vibrato. Perry had it and used it throughout his legendary run.


"Backdoor vibrato"... WTF is that? I had to Google that... and guess what... the term doesn't exist...

Perry had amazing control of his vibrato.. when to use it.. .and when not to..



If you really want to understand Perry's voice try reading this: http://www.fabricationshq.com/steve-per ... ebook.html

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
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Postby Don » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:31 pm

journey361 wrote:I accept it but if thats the case, maybe Journey should hit on one Adam Lambert. Hell, it seems like everyone else is asking him to sing with them. And Perry had an unmatched backdoor vibrato. Backdoor vibrato isn't the type that colors the note at the end the word, it is there throughout the course of the vocals for each desired word. Not the BIG dipped vibrato. Perry had it and used it throughout his legendary run.


Singing for Journey would be a major step down in Lambert's career.
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Postby annie89509 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:32 pm

Jana wrote:The best song of the Arnel era is Turn Down the World Tonight just because it is one of my favorite songs by Journey and love the warmth of the song and his vocals and the throwback vibe of it. They had such a great album cover for Revelation. What happened to Eclipse with such a cheap album package and so dull in hues for the album cover? The colors needed to be richer, like black and orange. Resonate is my second favorite of his era.
TDTWT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GEgwJMj ... re=related

Yes, I agree with this.

And the best song in the SA-era is Higher Place...the best ballad is Beyond the Clouds:
http://youtu.be/M6d6wYkaetM
http://youtu.be/8vXWBjkBzuI
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Postby Don » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:33 pm

annie89509 wrote:
Jana wrote:The best song of the Arnel era is Turn Down the World Tonight just because it is one of my favorite songs by Journey and love the warmth of the song and his vocals and the throwback vibe of it. They had such a great album cover for Revelation. What happened to Eclipse with such a cheap album package and so dull in hues for the album cover? The colors needed to be richer, like black and orange. Resonate is my second favorite of his era.
TDTWT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GEgwJMj ... re=related

Yes, I agree with this.

And the best song in the SA-era is Higher Place...the best ballad is Beyond the Clouds:
http://youtu.be/M6d6wYkaetM
http://youtu.be/8vXWBjkBzuI


For my money, WAFTE is Augeri's finest moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZEdpxKhYsk
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Postby jrnyman28 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:50 pm

Don wrote:
annie89509 wrote:
Jana wrote:The best song of the Arnel era is Turn Down the World Tonight just because it is one of my favorite songs by Journey and love the warmth of the song and his vocals and the throwback vibe of it. They had such a great album cover for Revelation. What happened to Eclipse with such a cheap album package and so dull in hues for the album cover? The colors needed to be richer, like black and orange. Resonate is my second favorite of his era.
TDTWT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GEgwJMj ... re=related

Yes, I agree with this.

And the best song in the SA-era is Higher Place...the best ballad is Beyond the Clouds:
http://youtu.be/M6d6wYkaetM
http://youtu.be/8vXWBjkBzuI


For my money, WAFTE is Augeri's finest moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZEdpxKhYsk


Amen Don
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Postby annie89509 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:02 pm

Don wrote:
annie89509 wrote:
Jana wrote:The best song of the Arnel era is Turn Down the World Tonight just because it is one of my favorite songs by Journey and love the warmth of the song and his vocals and the throwback vibe of it. They had such a great album cover for Revelation. What happened to Eclipse with such a cheap album package and so dull in hues for the album cover? The colors needed to be richer, like black and orange. Resonate is my second favorite of his era.
TDTWT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GEgwJMj ... re=related

Yes, I agree with this.

And the best song in the SA-era is Higher Place...the best ballad is Beyond the Clouds:
http://youtu.be/M6d6wYkaetM
http://youtu.be/8vXWBjkBzuI


For my money, WAFTE is Augeri's finest moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZEdpxKhYsk

Oh, yes you right...forgot about this song....some years back, a Journey fan acquaintance in town burned me a cd of his R13. This is the only song I liked from this record.
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Postby slucero » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:10 pm

annie89509 wrote:
Don wrote:
annie89509 wrote:
Jana wrote:The best song of the Arnel era is Turn Down the World Tonight just because it is one of my favorite songs by Journey and love the warmth of the song and his vocals and the throwback vibe of it. They had such a great album cover for Revelation. What happened to Eclipse with such a cheap album package and so dull in hues for the album cover? The colors needed to be richer, like black and orange. Resonate is my second favorite of his era.
TDTWT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GEgwJMj ... re=related

Yes, I agree with this.

And the best song in the SA-era is Higher Place...the best ballad is Beyond the Clouds:
http://youtu.be/M6d6wYkaetM
http://youtu.be/8vXWBjkBzuI


For my money, WAFTE is Augeri's finest moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZEdpxKhYsk

Oh, yes you right...forgot about this song....some years back, a Journey fan acquaintance in town burned me a cd of his R13. This is the only song I liked from this record.



I'm pretty partial to TBAA but WAFTE is also up there...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
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Postby annie89509 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:30 pm

slucero wrote:
annie89509 wrote:
Don wrote:
annie89509 wrote:
Jana wrote:The best song of the Arnel era is Turn Down the World Tonight just because it is one of my favorite songs by Journey and love the warmth of the song and his vocals and the throwback vibe of it. They had such a great album cover for Revelation. What happened to Eclipse with such a cheap album package and so dull in hues for the album cover? The colors needed to be richer, like black and orange. Resonate is my second favorite of his era.
TDTWT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GEgwJMj ... re=related

Yes, I agree with this.

And the best song in the SA-era is Higher Place...the best ballad is Beyond the Clouds:
http://youtu.be/M6d6wYkaetM
http://youtu.be/8vXWBjkBzuI


For my money, WAFTE is Augeri's finest moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZEdpxKhYsk

Oh, yes you right...forgot about this song....some years back, a Journey fan acquaintance in town burned me a cd of his R13. This is the only song I liked from this record.



I'm pretty partial to TBAA but WAFTE is also up there...

TBAA?...I'm not familiar with...which song is that?
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Postby steveo777 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:34 pm

annie89509 wrote:
slucero wrote:
annie89509 wrote:
Don wrote:
annie89509 wrote:
Jana wrote:The best song of the Arnel era is Turn Down the World Tonight just because it is one of my favorite songs by Journey and love the warmth of the song and his vocals and the throwback vibe of it. They had such a great album cover for Revelation. What happened to Eclipse with such a cheap album package and so dull in hues for the album cover? The colors needed to be richer, like black and orange. Resonate is my second favorite of his era.
TDTWT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GEgwJMj ... re=related

Yes, I agree with this.

And the best song in the SA-era is Higher Place...the best ballad is Beyond the Clouds:
http://youtu.be/M6d6wYkaetM
http://youtu.be/8vXWBjkBzuI


For my money, WAFTE is Augeri's finest moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZEdpxKhYsk

Oh, yes you right...forgot about this song....some years back, a Journey fan acquaintance in town burned me a cd of his R13. This is the only song I liked from this record.



I'm pretty partial to TBAA but WAFTE is also up there...

TBAA?...I'm not familiar with...which song is that?


To Be Alive Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OUugFh2D6s
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Postby Kor'n » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:45 pm

journey361 wrote:Well, you all made some valid points, i'm not going to sit here and pretend those points you brought to my attention are fruitfull. But Journey's songs are not played on the radio with AP. It's all about Perry, always has been, always will be. Cain said some things in VH1 that reared its ugly head. Even though its been salt living with pepper for so many years, is Cain really a good writer and player. Probably not. My opinion.


artist4perry wrote:Yeah, Jon just sucks, he can't play piano at all. :wink: :lol:

http://youtu.be/uGHllVS2oHI

Seriously, I like Steve's singing but I have to wonder if your love and loyalty for Steve has hurt your ability to be objective.

I know Jon said some things that might have bugged you, but bands get on each others nerves. They say things and may even regret them later. They are human after all. And as much as I like Steve, I don't know he did not play his own part in doing or saying things he probably shouldn't have. Case in point, he learned to regret making them get rid of Ross and Smitty. He admitted as much. People are people and not without feet of clay. I met Jon, he is a nice guy.


Forgive my saying, but guess we all may have some cloudy objectivity.:lol: They were all adults, with the ability to make their own decisions, and supposedly it was "Neal's Band." The guy does have some valid points, guess there is some reason that SP rarely mentions Jon. Could be like s/one said that Jon made that notorious call to him. Don't get that "prolific" writing thing about Jon, but I'm not familiar with his pre-Perry or post-Perry hit songs.
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Postby annie89509 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:49 pm

steveo777 wrote:
annie89509 wrote:
slucero wrote:
annie89509 wrote:
Don wrote:
annie89509 wrote:
Jana wrote:The best song of the Arnel era is Turn Down the World Tonight just because it is one of my favorite songs by Journey and love the warmth of the song and his vocals and the throwback vibe of it. They had such a great album cover for Revelation. What happened to Eclipse with such a cheap album package and so dull in hues for the album cover? The colors needed to be richer, like black and orange. Resonate is my second favorite of his era.
TDTWT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GEgwJMj ... re=related

Yes, I agree with this.

And the best song in the SA-era is Higher Place...the best ballad is Beyond the Clouds:
http://youtu.be/M6d6wYkaetM
http://youtu.be/8vXWBjkBzuI


For my money, WAFTE is Augeri's finest moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZEdpxKhYsk

Oh, yes you right...forgot about this song....some years back, a Journey fan acquaintance in town burned me a cd of his R13. This is the only song I liked from this record.



I'm pretty partial to TBAA but WAFTE is also up there...

TBAA?...I'm not familiar with...which song is that?


To Be Alive Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OUugFh2D6s

oh, okay, I was thinking a song off Red13...lol
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Postby Ritchie » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:11 pm

slucero wrote:
journey361 wrote:I accept it but if thats the case, maybe Journey should hit on one Adam Lambert. Hell, it seems like everyone else is asking him to sing with them. And Perry had an unmatched backdoor vibrato. Backdoor vibrato isn't the type that colors the note at the end the word, it is there throughout the course of the vocals for each desired word. Not the BIG dipped vibrato. Perry had it and used it throughout his legendary run.


"Backdoor vibrato"... WTF is that? I had to Google that... and guess what... the term doesn't exist...

Perry had amazing control of his vibrato.. when to use it.. .and when not to..



If you really want to understand Perry's voice try reading this: http://www.fabricationshq.com/steve-per ... ebook.html


I`ll bet you that Adam Lambert knows what a "Backdoor vibrato(r)" is. :lol: :shock: :lol:
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Postby annpea » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:54 pm

Ritchie wrote:
slucero wrote:
journey361 wrote:I accept it but if thats the case, maybe Journey should hit on one Adam Lambert. Hell, it seems like everyone else is asking him to sing with them. And Perry had an unmatched backdoor vibrato. Backdoor vibrato isn't the type that colors the note at the end the word, it is there throughout the course of the vocals for each desired word. Not the BIG dipped vibrato. Perry had it and used it throughout his legendary run.


"Backdoor vibrato"... WTF is that? I had to Google that... and guess what... the term doesn't exist...

Perry had amazing control of his vibrato.. when to use it.. .and when not to..



If you really want to understand Perry's voice try reading this: http://www.fabricationshq.com/steve-per ... ebook.html


I`ll bet you that Adam Lambert knows what a "Backdoor vibrato(r)" is. :lol: :shock: :lol:
:lol: :lol:
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Postby jrnyman28 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:53 am

Kor'n wrote:Forgive my saying, but guess we all may have some cloudy objectivity.:lol: They were all adults, with the ability to make their own decisions, and supposedly it was "Neal's Band." The guy does have some valid points, guess there is some reason that SP rarely mentions Jon. Could be like s/one said that Jon made that notorious call to him. Don't get that "prolific" writing thing about Jon, but I'm not familiar with his pre-Perry or post-Perry hit songs.


Prolific does not mean "hit". It pertains to quantity. And activity. Jon has written on 7 Journey albums an he has something like 6 solo albums. Not mention the songs he's written for other artists.
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Postby journey361 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:30 am

First of all, backdoor vibrato comes from me, and me only. It's a term i use when I sing and Perry being my favorite of them all, WILL AND DID use it such as other artists use it. It's not the big dipped Vibrato at the end of notes that color words or vowels. The best way i can describe it i guess is like a wave in a ocean with the lyrics throughout of a song but very lightly and not really noticed or heard unless you listen with real good equipment.
The reason I call it *(backdoor) is simply if you listen close enough, it almost sounds like he's sucking his vocal flaps backwards WITH THE larynx and flaps sucking in always with a count of 2. (And it's always the count of 2). I know this sounds crazy and looney but when i sing and my throat becomes moist and my vibrato kicks in at it's best, i always have done this and at times, i think i have it down but of course not consistantly. But at least i have it for a short time. But again singing is like lifting weights in a way, it's simply muscle memory. And that applies to your vocal folds meaning your instrument. Second, i never said he hated Cain, i meant to said sometimes personalities can rear it's ugly head when things go south. And i'm sure they being Journey did have to come to terms with themselves that Perry made life and Journey a force to be heard. It was Perry and his vocals that sealed the deal. Yes they were a band and everyone had a part in it. But the world identified with Perry and his voice.
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Re: Time for Cain/Perry

Postby georgethree33 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:33 pm

Scarab Pilot wrote:
My wife and I were discussing this the other day and she said something I know folks will find blasphemous. She said...you know Neal can be replaced. There are pleny of guitar players out there that are just as talented as he is...get a new one. I'd love to see Cain and Perry put something together. Journey is becoming a joke just after I felt it was becoming respected by a lot of people.


I gotta disagree. Without Neal, there is no Journey. Replace the engine and the car may still run, but it's a different vehicle entirely. Journey is Neal's. Always has been, always will be. Everyone else is replaceable. Neal is the foundation, Journey without Schon would be like Van Halen without Eddie.

Say what you will about him, his personal decisions as of late, but I say if the guy wasn't happy and is now - more power to him and his new lady love. It's too bad his wife was hurt and her husband too. But he's always been really good to the fans, and that hasn't changed in the least over time. Neal signed autographs for me through Nomota this year, and the entire band signed via venue too. Helluva nice thing to do and he/they didn't have to. Maybe the new album isn't to everyone's liking, but I loved it and can't wait to hear more Journey tunes as soon as possible!
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