Eclipse - 5 years

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Eclipse - 5 years

Postby ScarabFan » Tue May 24, 2016 12:20 pm

Tomorrow marks the five year anniversary of Eclipse. How has it held up?
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue May 24, 2016 2:37 pm

Musically, it holds my attention. In some respects it reminds me of the first three albums or one of Neal's solo cds with lyrics. Edge of the Moment is built around a Neal riff in the same way Nickel and Dime was. There is also stuff on Eclipse for fans of classic-era radio friendly hits - Someone, Anything Is Possible, She's a Mystery, Ritual. She's a Mystery could have been from any of the Perry-Rolie records while the rest are pure Cain-era synth-saturated AOR Journey. Schon challenged the band to stretch themselves musically and lyrically. Listen to that piano into of "Chain of Love' and you hear a band that is still exploring new sounds and not bound to re-writing their hits. I also think Kalmusky helped to make it the best sounding Journey cd since TBF. As with Revelation, I think not giving Deen at least 3 songs was a huge missed opportunity.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby Memorex » Tue May 24, 2016 9:41 pm

See for yourself:

Eclipse
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby Eric » Tue May 24, 2016 10:52 pm

Still love it. It's Journey's most interesting album since Frontiers. It's a shame Anything is Possible wasn't pushed for a single...it was getting some airplay without being released.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby FamilyMan » Wed May 25, 2016 3:32 am

In retrospect, I think Eclipse was ill-conceived for its time. The band had its first taste of mass-appeal since Perry's departure with Revelation and a follow-up should have played more to that audience. Instead, they let Neal "take the reins" and produce his concept album which was heavy on the hard rock and light on the ballads and other signature Journey-hit hallmarks. Eclipse would have been the record they should have done with JSS if they went that way. But I don't think Arnel's voice lent itself to those songs.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby ScarabFan » Wed May 25, 2016 3:40 am

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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed May 25, 2016 4:21 am

ScarabFan wrote:http://ultimateclassicrock.com/journey-eclipse/

Mostly fair assessment. The Bad English/Raised on Radio comparisons are ridiculous.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby JourneyHard » Wed May 25, 2016 6:03 am

A song like Ritual is exactly what Raised on Radio needed. Perhaps three or four songs like Ritual in fact would have raised that album to a higher radio level.

Anyway, I still think if Steve Perry had been the voice on Eclipse, it would have been their best album ever. I love Eclipse, but there are some edges that need to be worked out and Perry could have done it. He is able to make great songs even better.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed May 25, 2016 6:15 am

Eric wrote:Still love it. It's Journey's most interesting album since Frontiers

Very true.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby FamilyMan » Wed May 25, 2016 7:43 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
ScarabFan wrote:http://ultimateclassicrock.com/journey-eclipse/

Mostly fair assessment. The Bad English/Raised on Radio comparisons are ridiculous.


As is the review of "She's a Mystery." This may be my favorite track on the whole record- and its biggest surprise.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby Journey/Survivor » Wed May 25, 2016 9:31 am

Eric wrote:Still love it. It's Journey's most interesting album since Frontiers. It's a shame Anything is Possible wasn't pushed for a single...it was getting some airplay without being released.


Eclipse is my favorite Journey album since Frontiers.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed May 25, 2016 9:56 am

FamilyMan wrote:As is the review of "She's a Mystery." This may be my favorite track on the whole record- and its biggest surprise.


Yea, I dig the old school vibe of that one. And the guitar solo orgy at the end is killer.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed May 25, 2016 10:19 am

FamilyMan wrote:In retrospect, I think Eclipse was ill-conceived for its time. The band had its first taste of mass-appeal since Perry's departure with Revelation and a follow-up should have played more to that audience.

It’s hard to say. I think ALOT of Revelation purchases were for the re-recorded hits. Keep in mind, Revelation coincided with Don’t Stop Believing mania (Sopranos, Glee etc). A good friend of mine bought Revelation and played the hits at a party. He later threw the cd of new songs away.

Sure, the band could have played it safe. But they did that already with Arrival and got nowhere. Going from Next to Infinity was a gamble. Going from Departure to Escape was also a gamble. I’m glad they took a chance.

FamilyMan wrote:Instead, they let Neal "take the reins" …

Yea, but at least Neal didn’t fire anybody like Perry did when he took control for ROR.
Cain still came up with the concept for Eclipse and the lyrics. I think what really bugs Cain is the fact that Eclipse’s songs are guitar driven and his playing took a backseat.

FamilyMan wrote:…and produce his concept album which was heavy on the hard rock and light on the ballads and other signature Journey-hit hallmarks.

Well, to be fair, the ballad-to-rocker ratio on Eclipse is pretty much the same as Escape, their best selling album. Tantra and To Whom it May Concern are both ballads, they are just not typical cookie cutter, boy meets girl, love songs.

FamilyMan wrote:Eclipse would have been the record they should have done with JSS if they went that way. But I don't think Arnel's voice lent itself to those songs.


Maybe. But would JSS have been a natural fit for stuff like Anything is Possible? Or Someone? These are hypoglycemic pop rock sing-a-longs in the classic Journey mold. Of all the material on Eclipse, I could hear JSS roaring through the heavy Chain of Love. But most of the material is still very much melodic AOR.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby Monker » Wed May 25, 2016 3:27 pm

JourneyHard wrote:A song like Ritual is exactly what Raised on Radio needed. Perhaps three or four songs like Ritual in fact would have raised that album to a higher radio level.


No. ROR needed Perry fired as producer and his power in the band stripped away, or kicked out of the band completely. Herbie getting his power back, the album name changed back to Freedom, and the entire album scrapped and redone with Smith and Valory involved from the start.

Then you would have had a follow up worthy of coming after Escape and Frontiers.

Anyway, I still think if Steve Perry had been the voice on Eclipse, it would have been their best album ever. I love Eclipse, but there are some edges that need to be worked out and Perry could have done it. He is able to make great songs even better.


Arnel has incredible vocals on Eclipse. Steve Perry could never sing like that today. He couldn't even sing like that on TBF.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby Monker » Wed May 25, 2016 3:46 pm

FamilyMan wrote:In retrospect, I think Eclipse was ill-conceived for its time. The band had its first taste of mass-appeal since Perry's departure with Revelation and a follow-up should have played more to that audience.


I completely disagree. Journey should not have been playing to ANY audience. They should have done what they wanted to do as a band...not with one member's wants and needs taking precedence over everybody else. ROR sounds more like Street Talk than a Journey album. For the very same reasons Eclipse sounds more like a Neal Schon solo project than a Journey album.

Yes, you can point to this and that song and be nitpicky and find exceptions....but, over-all, neither album sounds like Journey to me.

Revelation was pandering to the "legacy sound". Eclipse was pandering to Neal Schon. In between those two is a happy medium where the band as a whole can drive the direction and sound. That is where albums like Infinity and Escape come from. Journey lost their happy medium.


Instead, they let Neal "take the reins" and produce his concept album which was heavy on the hard rock and light on the ballads and other signature Journey-hit hallmarks. Eclipse would have been the record they should have done with JSS if they went that way. But I don't think Arnel's voice lent itself to those songs.


They should have never done an album with JSS. I believe the fact that Wal-Mart wanted to rerecord the old songs is a big part of the reason why he was kicked out. Even Dean started wondering that when I brought it up, because JSS did some demos of the old songs. Besides, WET was worth not having JSS in Journey, IMO.

And, I completely disagree with Arnel's voice on Eclipse. He sounds incredible. The problem isn't Arnel didn't go well with those songs. The problem is most of those songs did not go well with "Journey".
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu May 26, 2016 2:30 am

Monker - Infinity and Escape don't exactly sound like the same band either. I don't think this happy medium you speak of really exists.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby Eric » Thu May 26, 2016 2:53 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Monker - Infinity and Escape don't exactly sound like the same band either. I don't think this happy medium you speak of really exists.


I think I agree with TNC. Journey is a band that has (and needs to) changed it's sound over time. I feel like there are times when they've been on to something....I Can Breathe, Out of Harms Way, Change for the Better, Edge of the Moment, Chain of Love...these all have a new sound TO ME that still also sound like Journey....Melodic Energy Rock. Sense of urgency but with polish. I like most of their songs...but these were different.

I actually think they are primed now to make an album with "A" new sound. The last major shift that worked was Rolie to Cain. Maybe replacing Cain would allow them to do this? This may sound weird, but I feel like they have more leeway now than in '98. They had 20 GH to play then (GH album+WYLAW, SIL, JTSW, FTW and Anytime). Their growing younger audience know half of those and as long as they end with DSB I feel like they can mix things up more. Journey is almost like a new band with a huge hit (DSB) to their new young audience. You pair them with the right tour partner and they can jam more. Playing with a PERFECT Foreigner tribute band (not even Mick at the end) playing a dozen hits note for note in 2011 hurt Journey's ability to branch out and play Eclipse I think. The crowd was hit crazy. Foreigner had a beautiful tight 80 minute set.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby scarab » Thu May 26, 2016 3:11 am

I actually think 2/3 sounds like the Frontiers era sound. Resonate is the bester rocker since Sep Ways.
I think they were hoping for another Anthem like DSB with City of Hope. The song is very boring.
She's a mystery and To whom it may concern are another 2 songs that seem out of place.
Venus begins like a classic Schon melodic solo, but the thrashing goes a little too far.

The rest is very very good. Anything is possible and Someone should have been pushed harder. They would of made hit singles.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby JourneyHard » Thu May 26, 2016 8:14 am

Monker wrote:Arnel has incredible vocals on Eclipse. Steve Perry could never sing like that today. He couldn't even sing like that on TBF.


Again. I love Eclipse. Arnel sang his butt off. But Perry could have helped make the songs even better with his unique style. For instance, some of the lyrics of Tantra are wonky. Perry would have made minor tweaks and made the song better. This is nothing against Arnel. Perry is a legend and we know Perry brings more than just a voice to the table.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby tj » Thu May 26, 2016 12:23 pm

Neither of these guys - Perry and Cain - are as good individually or paired with anyone else, except Schon in a couple of instances, as they are with each other. Perry's best work by far is in Journey. I liked Street Talk, was OK with Strange Medicine, but both lacked the balance of Cain.

Eclipse, Arrival, Revelation, etc. are not as good as when the balance was there in the band with Perry. ROR was way out of balance musically compared to Escape and Frontiers. TBF was trying to recapture the magic, but after 10 years it couldn't be found.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby JourneyHard » Thu May 26, 2016 1:32 pm

tj wrote:Neither of these guys - Perry and Cain - are as good individually or paired with anyone else, except Schon in a couple of instances, as they are with each other. Perry's best work by far is in Journey. I liked Street Talk, was OK with Strange Medicine, but both lacked the balance of Cain.

Eclipse, Arrival, Revelation, etc. are not as good as when the balance was there in the band with Perry. ROR was way out of balance musically compared to Escape and Frontiers. TBF was trying to recapture the magic, but after 10 years it couldn't be found.



I agree with this for the most part. Perry and Cain and Schon worked best when they were together. TBF could have been better if it didn't get bogged down in so many ballads. Santana IV has 16 tracks, but it is a jam album so it works. TBF was a few rockers and then a whole lotta ballads; so it doesn't work. Plus the best song on TBF wasn't even released on the American version.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby youkeepmewaiting » Fri May 27, 2016 1:53 am

I know people complain about it, but Tantra is up there with my favourites
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri May 27, 2016 5:26 am

youkeepmewaiting wrote:I know people complain about it, but Tantra is up there with my favourites

Great and unique tune.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby Aaron » Fri May 27, 2016 1:39 pm

It sucked 5 years ago and it sucks now. It's funny this thread came up as I was downloading music on Amazon and this cd came up so I pulled it. I slipped through it again for the first time in 4 years. My initial impression was right on, this cd is shite. There is nothing I like about it and Schon down tuning to pander to the current music scene pisses me off as much now as it did then. I've not been to a concert since 2008 and have no future plans unless they've went back to standard tune. I'd rather see Voyage or Resurrection, at least they are not detuned.

Oh yea, Steve Smith rocks. But his involvement is still not enough to pull me in. And the dude running keyboard and singing in the background? Call it a day Journey.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri May 27, 2016 1:56 pm

Aaron wrote:My initial impression was right on, this cd is shite. There is nothing I like about it and Schon down tuning to pander to the current music scene pisses me off as much now as it did then.

Your opinion is total shit. And in an age where their contemporaries are doing cover albums or duets with rappers, it's a stretch to say Journey has pandered. If anything, Eclipse is an album for diehard fans. Thanks for the laugh.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby FamilyMan » Fri May 27, 2016 9:17 pm

Let's all think about this a slightly different way:
If this album (Eclipse) is really the last that Journey ever releases, with all their success, would we all really be ok with it? That THIS is their last stand? The living testament to a band that spanned nearly four decades and whose hits became a soundtrack to our lives? Not sure about any of you, but "Tantra" is not the way I want to remember my favorite band.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri May 27, 2016 9:55 pm

FamilyMan wrote:Let's all think about this a slightly different way:
If this album (Eclipse) is really the last that Journey ever releases, with all their success, would we all really be ok with it? That THIS is their last stand? The living testament to a band that spanned nearly four decades and whose hits became a soundtrack to our lives? Not sure about any of you, but "Tantra" is not the way I want to remember my favorite band.


Huh? For nearly a decade, Raised on Radio was the LAST album. Were you OK with the last album featuring Neal's guitar replaced with a sax solo? The "soundtrack to our lives"? What cliched crap. Like, you had "Winds of March" blaring on an 8-track as your kids were getting born...get the fuck out of here. What Eclipse reflects, is what Neal has talked about since re-forming in 98. When Arrival was just in the writing stages, Neal said he wanted to make "Escape 2000." Eclipse is full circle back to the jam band years crossed with the glossy crass commercialism of the Cain years. Either you get it or you don't. I really doubt Journey is your favorite band. Half of the time, you are on here encouraging them to commit suicide and collaborate with Lady Gaga or Nelly or some other shit flavor of the month :roll:
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby Eric » Fri May 27, 2016 10:31 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Aaron wrote:My initial impression was right on, this cd is shite. There is nothing I like about it and Schon down tuning to pander to the current music scene pisses me off as much now as it did then.

Your opinion is total shit. And in an age where their contemporaries are doing cover albums or duets with rappers, it's a stretch to say Journey has pandered. If anything, Eclipse is an album for diehard fans. Thanks for the laugh.


I'm going to go ahead and RT, Favorite and Like this.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby tj » Sat May 28, 2016 11:16 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Huh? For nearly a decade, Raised on Radio was the LAST album. Were you OK with the last album featuring Neal's guitar replaced with a sax solo?


Was Perry trying to get the same type of feel that Foreigner had with the sax on Urgent? Because it didn't work for Journey in the slightest.
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Re: Eclipse - 5 years

Postby RedWingFan » Sat May 28, 2016 11:35 am

I started liking Journey because they were my older brother's favorite band from Infinity on. He sent me a text after listening to Eclipse on Spotify saying, "How can Journey put out a record without 1 good song on it?" He really liked "Revelation" too so it's not an Arnel thing.
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