Raised On Radio question

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Raised On Radio question

Postby PianoMan1986 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:48 pm

It was recently brought to my attention, and I've probably heard it before, but somehow I wasn't aware that Journey recorded the Raised On Radio album 3 times. Makes me wonder what might have come out or what would have come out instead.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby FamilyMan » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:56 pm

It would have sounded exactly the same…
With Perry in charge - ROR was destined to sound exactly the way we all heard it.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby tj » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:42 am

Same songs recorded 3 times after completion? I can't imagine that the whole album of the final tracks was recorded, then recorded again, then recorded again. I could see where they would record the same song multiple times, I think that is pretty common, but to have the whole thing done and junk it twice? That seems really expensive.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby STORY_TELLER » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:36 am

I don't know if it's true or not, but, I recall reading an interview with one of the FTLOSM band members (Paul Taylor maybe? -- not sure). He said they worked on FTLOSM over a 3 year period. I have to believe they recorded and re-recorded and re-recorded until Perry got or came close enough to what he was looking for there. So with that in mind, this story doesn't sound too far fetched.

I personally think that ROR is a good album. I happen to like a lot of the tracks other people despise though. I do think, however, the album would have been SO much stronger if those same songs had more equal input/involvement from Neal and Smitty's distinct playing on the kit.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby scarab » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:47 am

Would be great if Journey someday would release an official album of just unreleased material, with comments from the band when they were recorded and why they passed on them.

I know we got 4 songs on Time3, velvet curtain, for you, liberty, and all that really matters, plus the re-recorded ROR demos without Steve Perry.
forgot about cookie duster.

For instance, Somewhere Someday, which I always assumed an ROR demo, people say is a Steve Perry FTLOSM demo.
There had to be a couple Infinity/Evolution demos that I would love to hear. At least on Departure we got to hear Little Girl and Natural Thing
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby tj » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:45 am

scarab wrote:Would be great if Journey someday would release an official album of just unreleased material, with comments from the band when they were recorded and why they passed on them.

I know we got 4 songs on Time3, velvet curtain, for you, liberty, and all that really matters, plus the re-recorded ROR demos without Steve Perry.
forgot about cookie duster.

For instance, Somewhere Someday, which I always assumed an ROR demo, people say is a Steve Perry FTLOSM demo.
There had to be a couple Infinity/Evolution demos that I would love to hear. At least on Departure we got to hear Little Girl and Natural Thing


I am guessing that Sony still owns the masters and doesn't see any $$$ in doing it or they would have already. They have certainly put out or allowed to be put out numerous compilations over the years. Or maybe the band still owns them since they didn't make the album but can't get along with Perry enough to agree on what would be included.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby PianoMan1986 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:52 pm

tj wrote:Same songs recorded 3 times after completion? I can't imagine that the whole album of the final tracks was recorded, then recorded again, then recorded again. I could see where they would record the same song multiple times, I think that is pretty common, but to have the whole thing done and junk it twice? That seems really expensive.


Yeah, this is in line with what I was getting at with my initial post. I could see them re-working certain songs to a point, but an album as a whole seems excessive.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:45 am

This brings up a few other points...

1. Did they actually record the ROR tracks three different times, or was there different material that was was recorded and scrapped all together? The lost Freedom session?

2. If they were all ROR tracks, was there a version recorded with Smith and Valory? With Perry producing it, maybe this is what led to their firing, and the scrapping of that session. We all know that a click track was being used for the drums, which Smith was having difficulties with. But was Valory's playing not up to snuff for what Perry wanted on the album (more of an R&B groove)?
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby FamilyMan » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:05 am

Art Vandelay wrote:This brings up a few other points...

1. Did they actually record the ROR tracks three different times, or was there different material that was was recorded and scrapped all together? The lost Freedom session?

2. If they were all ROR tracks, was there a version recorded with Smith and Valory? With Perry producing it, maybe this is what led to their firing, and the scrapping of that session. We all know that a click track was being used for the drums, which Smith was having difficulties with. But was Valory's playing not up to snuff for what Perry wanted on the album (more of an R&B groove)?


It's been widely reported and discussed - including on BTM - that they started recording and Perry wasn't happy with the rhythm section. Personally speaking, it's hard for me to hear - when I listen to the album - what the vast upgrades were with the session musicians he ultimately selected. With the possible exception of "When You Love Somebody," I hear nothing distinctive about the bass lines or grooves. That said, when I compare "Greatest Hits Live" to, say, "Vegas Live 2001," Ross' playing seems to have come miles. I could see how perhaps Perry would have thought Ross needed to up his game after the Frontiers tour. By the Augeri era, for whatever reason, he definitely did. Maybe job uncertainty/security was an incentive. The Smitty firing I will never ever understand.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby MysteryMountain » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:56 am

Art Vandelay wrote:2. If they were all ROR tracks, was there a version recorded with Smith and Valory? With Perry producing it, maybe this is what led to their firing, and the scrapping of that session. We all know that a click track was being used for the drums, which Smith was having difficulties with. But was Valory's playing not up to snuff for what Perry wanted on the album (more of an R&B groove)?


Wasn't Ross spending more than he was making on pharmaceuticals? I thought that led to his demise at that time. Smitty was the mind blower, as he had such respect for SP.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby scarab » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:28 am

MysteryMountain wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:2. If they were all ROR tracks, was there a version recorded with Smith and Valory? With Perry producing it, maybe this is what led to their firing, and the scrapping of that session. We all know that a click track was being used for the drums, which Smith was having difficulties with. But was Valory's playing not up to snuff for what Perry wanted on the album (more of an R&B groove)?


Wasn't Ross spending more than he was making on pharmaceuticals? I thought that led to his demise at that time. Smitty was the mind blower, as he had such respect for SP.


Never got that too, on different interviews you could tell Perry disliked Valory, so was not a surprise to see him go, but Smith?
And extremely odd that Michael Baird replaced him on tour. Smith has more talent in one finger over Baird.
But it was nice that they either kept or re-recorded his drumming I think in three songs.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:38 am

scarab wrote:
MysteryMountain wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:2. If they were all ROR tracks, was there a version recorded with Smith and Valory? With Perry producing it, maybe this is what led to their firing, and the scrapping of that session. We all know that a click track was being used for the drums, which Smith was having difficulties with. But was Valory's playing not up to snuff for what Perry wanted on the album (more of an R&B groove)?


Wasn't Ross spending more than he was making on pharmaceuticals? I thought that led to his demise at that time. Smitty was the mind blower, as he had such respect for SP.


Never got that too, on different interviews you could tell Perry disliked Valory, so was not a surprise to see him go, but Smith?
And extremely odd that Michael Baird replaced him on tour. Smith has more talent in one finger over Baird.
But it was nice that they either kept or re-recorded his drumming I think in three songs.


The band's creative process was at one time very democratic. This is what Smith said that he particularly liked about being in Journey during his interview with Dom Famularo. Being that they were using a click track to help structure the songs for ROR, my guess is that input from Smith was probably not welcomed (either play what we mapped out, or don't play). Him not feeling comfortable playing with the track at the time probably didn't help his case any. Again, just my theory.

Baird wasn't a BAD player. He kept a solid back beat, and had a pretty good resume to prove it. But, yes, his playing was nowhere near Smith's, and didn't do Journey's music any justice.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby tj » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:15 am

Baird had to be pretty good to get the job. I remember reading that they had tried out at least a couple of dozen drummers before selecting him. At that point in their career, I doubt that just any hack would have gotten a tryout. He wasn't Smith, who wasn't Dunbar, but Baird served well for the tour.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Journey/Survivor » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:44 am

Randy Jackson is a great bass player. But, like it was mentioned above, other than on "Once You Love Somebody," the bass playing is not really superior to what Ross Valory would have done. Bob Glaub also played some bass on the album.

Perry just never liked Ross Valory for some reason.

Larrie Londin was the drummer on the ROR album with the exception of the few songs that Steve Smith played on. Londin was a legend of sorts in the music world, and a very good player, but obviously Steve Smith is better than Londin was.

Perry wanted the drummer to play like a drum machine, with virtually no drum-fills in the songs. Smith didn't want to play so boringly like Perry wanted. So Perry kicked Smith out too.

Like was also mentioned above, Mike Baird is an excellent drummer with a great resume. But again, he doesn't compare with Steve Smith.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby annie89509 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:03 pm

As been written about previously, majority of songs was already written and laid out (mostly by JC from SP’s vision) before the band got together in the studio to record the album. It was to incorporate drum machines and click track. Years later, Smitty said those sessions were the toughest experience of his life. He was fired, not because of displeasure or refusing to play a certain way, but just did not know how, him being still in infancy phase of his rock career (1st love started as jazz drummer). He learned, eventually, for survival. Producers only hired studio musicians, session drummers, who could play click track.

I don’t think anyone knows the full story on the Ross termination … mostly, we only got fan speculation. Drug problem? never substantiated by an insider, other than HH, who once made innuendo that RV blew all his money on drugs. However, this was not associated as reason for his firing, I don’t recall.

As someone posted above, ROR was SP’s baby, and he didn’t like the sound of the rhythm section as the songs were being played back. I doubt anyone is talking about the complete album being recorded (re-recorded) 3 whole times. More likely, SP didn’t like how the songs sounded when played back in the studio, changed musicians, songs were re-recorded, and we got the versions he wanted people to hear. Ross was shut out; he kept 3 songs with Smitty. WCTNGOF being one…my all-time favorite J. song…goosebumps every time I listen to it. You can absolutely hear Smitty’s deft fingers within the structure and musical loops. Click track would have ruined this song (lol).

In the ROR Tour Documentary (MTV produced & broadcasted on CBS late night back in the day), on dvd fan bootleg current time… SP in one sequence said (paraphrasing): “Journey, as a band, needed to evolve. Some members, unfortunately, when we re-grouped, weren’t growing, I think, in the same direction as Jon, Neal & myself were.”
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby STORY_TELLER » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:07 am

annie89509 wrote:As been written about previously, majority of songs was already written and laid out (mostly by JC from SP’s vision) before the band got together in the studio to record the album. It was to incorporate drum machines and click track. Years later, Smitty said those sessions were the toughest experience of his life. He was fired, not because of displeasure or refusing to play a certain way, but just did not know how, him being still in infancy phase of his rock career (1st love started as jazz drummer). He learned, eventually, for survival. Producers only hired studio musicians, session drummers, who could play click track.

I don’t think anyone knows the full story on the Ross termination … mostly, we only got fan speculation. Drug problem? never substantiated by an insider, other than HH, who once made innuendo that RV blew all his money on drugs. However, this was not associated as reason for his firing, I don’t recall.

As someone posted above, ROR was SP’s baby, and he didn’t like the sound of the rhythm section as the songs were being played back. I doubt anyone is talking about the complete album being recorded (re-recorded) 3 whole times. More likely, SP didn’t like how the songs sounded when played back in the studio, changed musicians, songs were re-recorded, and we got the versions he wanted people to hear. Ross was shut out; he kept 3 songs with Smitty. WCTNGOF being one…my all-time favorite J. song…goosebumps every time I listen to it. You can absolutely hear Smitty’s deft fingers within the structure and musical loops. Click track would have ruined this song (lol).

In the ROR Tour Documentary (MTV produced & broadcasted on CBS late night back in the day), on dvd fan bootleg current time… SP in one sequence said (paraphrasing): “Journey, as a band, needed to evolve. Some members, unfortunately, when we re-grouped, weren’t growing, I think, in the same direction as Jon, Neal & myself were.”


Nail on the head. Good post.

Only part I question is Perry's sincerity about including Neal in the direction "they" were growing. I have no doubt JC was on board with Perry's vision. They're cut from the same musical cloth. But I don't think Neal wanted to grow in the same direction, and even though he agreed to it, I doubt he was happy with the way things were going.

I personally hear a big difference between Ross and Randy's playing. Ross's great contribution to the band is his playing is subdued and unobtrusive. It blends into the song allowing Neal's guitar to sit on top. It doesn't compete. Randy's playing on this album is front and center on most of the songs and competes with Neal's playing. The bass line has a much deeper groove and really stands out on almost every song to me. My ear is drawn to it over Neal's guitar -- too much so in places. But that's just me.

I very much like the album, but I've always wondered what it could have been if those same songs had Neal, Ross and Smitty doing THEIR thing. Perry steered it too far into 80's pop R&B and it lost a lot of the Journey feel -- but that was by design -- In the VH1 behind the music, Perry said Journey needed to take a musical direction and take a few chances. He went on to say ROR wasn't Journey material, and it wasn't his solo material -- it was kind of its own stuff. I think I agree with the own stuff comment and I like it for what it is.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Art Vandelay » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:25 am

annie89509 wrote:As been written about previously, majority of songs was already written and laid out (mostly by JC from SP’s vision) before the band got together in the studio to record the album. It was to incorporate drum machines and click track. Years later, Smitty said those sessions were the toughest experience of his life. He was fired, not because of displeasure or refusing to play a certain way, but just did not know how, him being still in infancy phase of his rock career (1st love started as jazz drummer). He learned, eventually, for survival. Producers only hired studio musicians, session drummers, who could play click track.

I don’t think anyone knows the full story on the Ross termination … mostly, we only got fan speculation. Drug problem? never substantiated by an insider, other than HH, who once made innuendo that RV blew all his money on drugs. However, this was not associated as reason for his firing, I don’t recall.

As someone posted above, ROR was SP’s baby, and he didn’t like the sound of the rhythm section as the songs were being played back. I doubt anyone is talking about the complete album being recorded (re-recorded) 3 whole times. More likely, SP didn’t like how the songs sounded when played back in the studio, changed musicians, songs were re-recorded, and we got the versions he wanted people to hear. Ross was shut out; he kept 3 songs with Smitty. WCTNGOF being one…my all-time favorite J. song…goosebumps every time I listen to it. You can absolutely hear Smitty’s deft fingers within the structure and musical loops. Click track would have ruined this song (lol).

In the ROR Tour Documentary (MTV produced & broadcasted on CBS late night back in the day), on dvd fan bootleg current time… SP in one sequence said (paraphrasing): “Journey, as a band, needed to evolve. Some members, unfortunately, when we re-grouped, weren’t growing, I think, in the same direction as Jon, Neal & myself were.”


Good post, however I wouldn't say Smith was still in his rock infancy stage. He had been playing rock for 8 years at this point, plus his time in Montrose prior to Journey. He was a well seasoned rock drummer in 1986. Music was changing in the mid 80s, becoming more over-produced and plastic.
Last edited by Art Vandelay on Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:21 am

Art Vandelay wrote:
annie89509 wrote:As been written about previously, majority of songs was already written and laid out (mostly by JC from SP’s vision) before the band got together in the studio to record the album. It was to incorporate drum machines and click track. Years later, Smitty said those sessions were the toughest experience of his life. He was fired, not because of displeasure or refusing to play a certain way, but just did not know how, him being still in infancy phase of his rock career (1st love started as jazz drummer). He learned, eventually, for survival. Producers only hired studio musicians, session drummers, who could play click track.

I don’t think anyone knows the full story on the Ross termination … mostly, we only got fan speculation. Drug problem? never substantiated by an insider, other than HH, who once made innuendo that RV blew all his money on drugs. However, this was not associated as reason for his firing, I don’t recall.

As someone posted above, ROR was SP’s baby, and he didn’t like the sound of the rhythm section as the songs were being played back. I doubt anyone is talking about the complete album being recorded (re-recorded) 3 whole times. More likely, SP didn’t like how the songs sounded when played back in the studio, changed musicians, songs were re-recorded, and we got the versions he wanted people to hear. Ross was shut out; he kept 3 songs with Smitty. WCTNGOF being one…my all-time favorite J. song…goosebumps every time I listen to it. You can absolutely hear Smitty’s deft fingers within the structure and musical loops. Click track would have ruined this song (lol).

In the ROR Tour Documentary (MTV produced & broadcasted on CBS late night back in the day), on dvd fan bootleg current time… SP in one sequence said (paraphrasing): “Journey, as a band, needed to evolve. Some members, unfortunately, when we re-grouped, weren’t growing, I think, in the same direction as Jon, Neal & myself were.”


Good post, however I wouldn't say Smith was still in his rock infancy stage. He had been playing rock for 8 years at this point, plus his time in Montrose prior to Journey. He was a well seasoned rock drummer in 1986. Music was changing in the mid 80s, becoming more over-produced and plastic.


Here's a video of Smith demonstrating how to use a metronome/click track to help keep time. This was from 1987/1988, so he did come around to playing with a click track not long after the ROR sessions. But again, playing with the click track had nothing to do with his rock playing skills at that point. Using a click track is not specific to drum playing, let alone rock music. I've known piano players who have used it for timing and rhythm while learning to play certain songs. In regards to using it for the ROR sessions, it was a tool used to produce a rhythm that, for better or for worse, what Perry had in mind (personally, it's still one of my favorite albums).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycfxKqfsgBM
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby tj » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:23 am

Art Vandelay wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
annie89509 wrote:As been written about previously, majority of songs was already written and laid out (mostly by JC from SP’s vision) before the band got together in the studio to record the album. It was to incorporate drum machines and click track. Years later, Smitty said those sessions were the toughest experience of his life. He was fired, not because of displeasure or refusing to play a certain way, but just did not know how, him being still in infancy phase of his rock career (1st love started as jazz drummer). He learned, eventually, for survival. Producers only hired studio musicians, session drummers, who could play click track.

I don’t think anyone knows the full story on the Ross termination … mostly, we only got fan speculation. Drug problem? never substantiated by an insider, other than HH, who once made innuendo that RV blew all his money on drugs. However, this was not associated as reason for his firing, I don’t recall.

As someone posted above, ROR was SP’s baby, and he didn’t like the sound of the rhythm section as the songs were being played back. I doubt anyone is talking about the complete album being recorded (re-recorded) 3 whole times. More likely, SP didn’t like how the songs sounded when played back in the studio, changed musicians, songs were re-recorded, and we got the versions he wanted people to hear. Ross was shut out; he kept 3 songs with Smitty. WCTNGOF being one…my all-time favorite J. song…goosebumps every time I listen to it. You can absolutely hear Smitty’s deft fingers within the structure and musical loops. Click track would have ruined this song (lol).

In the ROR Tour Documentary (MTV produced & broadcasted on CBS late night back in the day), on dvd fan bootleg current time… SP in one sequence said (paraphrasing): “Journey, as a band, needed to evolve. Some members, unfortunately, when we re-grouped, weren’t growing, I think, in the same direction as Jon, Neal & myself were.”


Good post, however I wouldn't say Smith was still in his rock infancy stage. He had been playing rock for 8 years at this point, plus his time in Montrose prior to Journey. He was a well seasoned rock drummer in 1986. Music was changing in the mid 80s, becoming more over-produced and plastic.


Here's a video of Smith demonstrating how to use a metronome/click track to help keep time. This was from 1987/1988, so he did come around to playing with a click track not long after the ROR sessions. But again, playing with the click track had nothing to do with his rock playing skills at that point. Using a click track is not specific to drum playing, let alone rock music. I've known piano players who have used it for timing and rhythm while learning to play certain songs. In regards to using it for the ROR sessions, it was a tool used to produce a rhythm that, for better or for worse, what Perry had in mind (personally, it's still one of my favorite albums).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycfxKqfsgBM



I can't find it now, but I read or saw an interview a few years ago with Smith saying that the issue with ROR was drum machines, which he stated were big at the time in a lot of popular music. I recall that his issue was that Perry had already programmed out which rhythms and drums/cymbals he wanted for the songs, rather than letting Smith come up with his own as he had always done. Smith pushed back against that and Perry convinced the others to go along with firing him. So, it went way beyond keeping time with a metronome/click track to laying out his whole part and saying "play this", (IMO - something a high school student could have done).
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:36 am

tj wrote: I can't find it now, but I read or saw an interview a few years ago with Smith saying that the issue with ROR was drum machines, which he stated were big at the time in a lot of popular music. I recall that his issue was that Perry had already programmed out which rhythms and drums/cymbals he wanted for the songs, rather than letting Smith come up with his own as he had always done. Smith pushed back against that and Perry convinced the others to go along with firing him. So, it went way beyond keeping time with a metronome/click track to laying out his whole part and saying "play this", (IMO - something a high school student could have done).


I recall reading something like that as well, TJ. Whatever went down, it's no doubt more complicated than you or I or anyone else on this board would probably understand. For what it's worth, I thought Larrie Londin did a solid job playing on the album. Whatever ideas he was presented with, he translated them well on his playing.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby STORY_TELLER » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:14 am

Art Vandelay wrote:
tj wrote: I can't find it now, but I read or saw an interview a few years ago with Smith saying that the issue with ROR was drum machines, which he stated were big at the time in a lot of popular music. I recall that his issue was that Perry had already programmed out which rhythms and drums/cymbals he wanted for the songs, rather than letting Smith come up with his own as he had always done. Smith pushed back against that and Perry convinced the others to go along with firing him. So, it went way beyond keeping time with a metronome/click track to laying out his whole part and saying "play this", (IMO - something a high school student could have done).


I recall reading something like that as well, TJ. Whatever went down, it's no doubt more complicated than you or I or anyone else on this board would probably understand. For what it's worth, I thought Larrie Londin did a solid job playing on the album. Whatever ideas he was presented with, he translated them well on his playing.


Yeah, I remember reading that as well. Additionally, Ross stated in his VH1 behind the music interview that "they came to us at the meeting that we (or he -- hard to discern the word used) hate Ross Vallery and Steve Smith's playing -- trail off via obvious edit splice -- returns with Ross saying "...Uhhhh wait a minute, what did I do here?"

Based on that it couldn't have just been about the click track. Had to be creative disagreement. Especially with Perry issuing a follow up mea culpa saying if he had to do it over again he wouldn't have. That music drove his decision and boy he had to have it.

Agreed on Larry Londin's playing too. Really solid player, and it's a shame he passed away. He might have been the touring drummer instead of Baird (who I really didn't like at all). Still, nobody fits that band better than Steve Smith, and I'm glad he's back, at least for a while. I hope they record something new with him.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:00 am

STORY_TELLER wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
tj wrote: I can't find it now, but I read or saw an interview a few years ago with Smith saying that the issue with ROR was drum machines, which he stated were big at the time in a lot of popular music. I recall that his issue was that Perry had already programmed out which rhythms and drums/cymbals he wanted for the songs, rather than letting Smith come up with his own as he had always done. Smith pushed back against that and Perry convinced the others to go along with firing him. So, it went way beyond keeping time with a metronome/click track to laying out his whole part and saying "play this", (IMO - something a high school student could have done).


I recall reading something like that as well, TJ. Whatever went down, it's no doubt more complicated than you or I or anyone else on this board would probably understand. For what it's worth, I thought Larrie Londin did a solid job playing on the album. Whatever ideas he was presented with, he translated them well on his playing.


Yeah, I remember reading that as well. Additionally, Ross stated in his VH1 behind the music interview that "they came to us at the meeting that we (or he -- hard to discern the word used) hate Ross Vallery and Steve Smith's playing -- trail off via obvious edit splice -- returns with Ross saying "...Uhhhh wait a minute, what did I do here?"

Based on that it couldn't have just been about the click track. Had to be creative disagreement. Especially with Perry issuing a follow up mea culpa saying if he had to do it over again he wouldn't have. That music drove his decision and boy he had to have it.

Agreed on Larry Londin's playing too. Really solid player, and it's a shame he passed away. He might have been the touring drummer instead of Baird (who I really didn't like at all). Still, nobody fits that band better than Steve Smith, and I'm glad he's back, at least for a while. I hope they record something new with him.


I'd love to see a list of all the drummers who auditioned for the spot. I know that Rod Morgenstein (Winger, The Dixie Dregs), tried out for it. He learned how to play Don't Stop Believin' note for note. He went in and played it, and was told that if that is what they wanted, they wouldn't be looking for a new drummer. :|

I don't know if Londin was doing tours at that point. He was such an in-demand studio drummer, that he probably would have lost money on the tour. Plus it was probably sweet to have such a steady music gig and not have to live on the road. Modern Drummer did a really nice piece on him after his passing. Perry was quoted a few times in the article. Seemed like a real classy guy. Damn shame.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby tj » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:26 am

Art Vandelay wrote:
I'd love to see a list of all the drummers who auditioned for the spot. I know that Rod Morgenstein (Winger, The Dixie Dregs), tried out for it. He learned how to play Don't Stop Believin' note for note. He went in and played it, and was told that if that is what they wanted, they wouldn't be looking for a new drummer. :|

I don't know if Londin was doing tours at that point. He was such an in-demand studio drummer, that he probably would have lost money on the tour. Plus it was probably sweet to have such a steady music gig and not have to live on the road. Modern Drummer did a really nice piece on him after his passing. Perry was quoted a few times in the article. Seemed like a real classy guy. Damn shame.


It's been 30 years ago and my memory isn't that good. Did Baird not play DSB the way Smith had? If he did, then their comment about not wanting that is stupid on their part. At that point, auditioning for a touring drummer, wouldn't they have wanted someone who matched the recordings pretty closely - ROR included, especially since they fired their longtime drummer to get the sound on the ROR songs that Perry wanted?
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:45 am

tj wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
I'd love to see a list of all the drummers who auditioned for the spot. I know that Rod Morgenstein (Winger, The Dixie Dregs), tried out for it. He learned how to play Don't Stop Believin' note for note. He went in and played it, and was told that if that is what they wanted, they wouldn't be looking for a new drummer. :|

I don't know if Londin was doing tours at that point. He was such an in-demand studio drummer, that he probably would have lost money on the tour. Plus it was probably sweet to have such a steady music gig and not have to live on the road. Modern Drummer did a really nice piece on him after his passing. Perry was quoted a few times in the article. Seemed like a real classy guy. Damn shame.


It's been 30 years ago and my memory isn't that good. Did Baird not play DSB the way Smith had? If he did, then their comment about not wanting that is stupid on their part. At that point, auditioning for a touring drummer, wouldn't they have wanted someone who matched the recordings pretty closely - ROR included, especially since they fired their longtime drummer to get the sound on the ROR songs that Perry wanted?


Smith's fills on DSB were very unique. Baird didn't play it quite as intricate as Smith did. Not to say he couldn't, he was just more loud and in your face. I don't think Deen played it exactly the same, and Moyes Lucas definitely didn't play it the same on Perry's solo tour.

I guess it all depended on availability for touring vs recording. They used a couple of bass players on the record. Plus, it's not that uncommon to use different musicians on the road when you're using studio guys on the record. Aynsley Dunbar played on most of the Whitesnake album, but II don't believe he toured with them. And Smith, of course, didn't tour with The Storm.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby STORY_TELLER » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:36 am

tj wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
I'd love to see a list of all the drummers who auditioned for the spot. I know that Rod Morgenstein (Winger, The Dixie Dregs), tried out for it. He learned how to play Don't Stop Believin' note for note. He went in and played it, and was told that if that is what they wanted, they wouldn't be looking for a new drummer. :|

I don't know if Londin was doing tours at that point. He was such an in-demand studio drummer, that he probably would have lost money on the tour. Plus it was probably sweet to have such a steady music gig and not have to live on the road. Modern Drummer did a really nice piece on him after his passing. Perry was quoted a few times in the article. Seemed like a real classy guy. Damn shame.


It's been 30 years ago and my memory isn't that good. Did Baird not play DSB the way Smith had? If he did, then their comment about not wanting that is stupid on their part. At that point, auditioning for a touring drummer, wouldn't they have wanted someone who matched the recordings pretty closely - ROR included, especially since they fired their longtime drummer to get the sound on the ROR songs that Perry wanted?



Yeah, I'm confused by this too. I remember Herbie talking about the auditions in the castles burning interview. He said something like, they brought in every top player in the industry and he lambasted Perry because, according to him, Perry chose the worst of the worst (or something to that effect).

Here's where I'm confused:
I always thought this audition happened at the time Smith and Valory were let go, and the auditions were about who would record ROR. Were these auditions just about the tour?
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Memorex » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:36 am

STORY_TELLER wrote:
tj wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
I'd love to see a list of all the drummers who auditioned for the spot. I know that Rod Morgenstein (Winger, The Dixie Dregs), tried out for it. He learned how to play Don't Stop Believin' note for note. He went in and played it, and was told that if that is what they wanted, they wouldn't be looking for a new drummer. :|

I don't know if Londin was doing tours at that point. He was such an in-demand studio drummer, that he probably would have lost money on the tour. Plus it was probably sweet to have such a steady music gig and not have to live on the road. Modern Drummer did a really nice piece on him after his passing. Perry was quoted a few times in the article. Seemed like a real classy guy. Damn shame.


It's been 30 years ago and my memory isn't that good. Did Baird not play DSB the way Smith had? If he did, then their comment about not wanting that is stupid on their part. At that point, auditioning for a touring drummer, wouldn't they have wanted someone who matched the recordings pretty closely - ROR included, especially since they fired their longtime drummer to get the sound on the ROR songs that Perry wanted?



Yeah, I'm confused by this too. I remember Herbie talking about the auditions in the castles burning interview. He said something like, they brought in every top player in the industry and he lambasted Perry because, according to him, Perry chose the worst of the worst (or something to that effect).

Here's where I'm confused:
I always thought this audition happened at the time Smith and Valory were let go, and the auditions were about who would record ROR. Were these auditions just about the tour?


I don't know totally, but a friend of mine auditioned and at that time, it was for the tour only.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby STORY_TELLER » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:21 pm

Memorex wrote:I don't know totally, but a friend of mine auditioned and at that time, it was for the tour only.


DUDE! You can't drop that and run! :lol: :lol:

You don't have to say his name but you must have an insider story to share, no? C'mon, spill!! :D
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby tater1977 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:59 pm

Was reading some info on the ror tour and came across this. Looks like most nights were sell outs.
Someone who's brain is more mathematical in monetary problems, figure out what the '86 revenues
would be like in today's monetary values ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_on_Radio_Tour

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Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Memorex » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:48 pm

STORY_TELLER wrote:
Memorex wrote:I don't know totally, but a friend of mine auditioned and at that time, it was for the tour only.


DUDE! You can't drop that and run! :lol: :lol:

You don't have to say his name but you must have an insider story to share, no? C'mon, spill!! :D


My impression was they auditioned a lot of people. A ton. So it's not like this guy is known. Only one story came from the whole thing. That he got there and they were waiting for Neal to arrive. He did and explained that he had just been out partying all night with Huey Lewis. That struck me as so rock-and-roll back then. Ha ha.
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Re: Raised On Radio question

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:27 am

Memorex wrote:
STORY_TELLER wrote:
Memorex wrote:I don't know totally, but a friend of mine auditioned and at that time, it was for the tour only.


DUDE! You can't drop that and run! :lol: :lol:

You don't have to say his name but you must have an insider story to share, no? C'mon, spill!! :D


My impression was they auditioned a lot of people. A ton. So it's not like this guy is known. Only one story came from the whole thing. That he got there and they were waiting for Neal to arrive. He did and explained that he had just been out partying all night with Huey Lewis. That struck me as so rock-and-roll back then. Ha ha.


Very cool! And funny! Thanks for sharing.

Perry already had the connection with Londin from his Street Talk album, so it would make sense that the auditions were for the tour only.
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