Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Open'

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Re: Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Op

Postby STORY_TELLER » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:09 am

WalrusOct9 wrote:Can Cain go one interview without talking about god? Egads.


Plus 1000. He's turned into a preacher. I don't care what he does in his personal life but I have a huge problem with it when it seeps into his song writing for Journey. It was all over Eclipse and it is a perfect example of what NOT to do on the next album.

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Re: Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Op

Postby Memorex » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:33 am

Hey Mr. Artist. Impress me. Don't speak of things you believe in if it does not impress me. I'm bothered by your beliefs and therefore your artistry should exclude your real feelings and only convey mine.

Sorry - I'd rather respect and ignore a true artist cause I can't get into his true art than listen to someone just repeating pop lines for a dollar.

Let's show some tolerance for people's beliefs. It's important to him - the lyricist. Gotta respect that.
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Re: Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Op

Postby STORY_TELLER » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:09 am

Memorex wrote:Hey Mr. Artist. Impress me. Don't speak of things you believe in if it does not impress me. I'm bothered by your beliefs and therefore your artistry should exclude your real feelings and only convey mine.

Sorry - I'd rather respect and ignore a true artist cause I can't get into his true art than listen to someone just repeating pop lines for a dollar.

Let's show some tolerance for people's beliefs. It's important to him - the lyricist. Gotta respect that.


I get your point, but, at the same time, while music is an art form, it's not just art. It's entertainment. Entertainment by nature is an attempt to appeal to a mass audience. In doing that, you're looking for something that will be attractive to most people. Writing a work intended for the entertainment of the masses (for the purpose of sale in a business venture) is always best serviced with lowest common denominator concepts. In other words: choose subject matter that most people can relate to.

I tolerate his beliefs. I just don't want him to try and sell it to me as part of my entertainment.
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Re: Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Op

Postby WalrusOct9 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:18 am

Memorex wrote:Hey Mr. Artist. Impress me. Don't speak of things you believe in if it does not impress me. I'm bothered by your beliefs and therefore your artistry should exclude your real feelings and only convey mine.

Sorry - I'd rather respect and ignore a true artist cause I can't get into his true art than listen to someone just repeating pop lines for a dollar.

Let's show some tolerance for people's beliefs. It's important to him - the lyricist. Gotta respect that.


Pretty sure god will have absolutely nothing to do with whether Journey gets into the R&RHOF. Reality sucks sometimes, but just passing everything off as 'god will make all my decisions' is both nauseating and lazy.
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Re: Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Op

Postby perryfan61 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:45 am

annie89509 wrote:
scarab wrote:Even Champlin or Scheff did not get the nod with Chicago, and they both had #1 hits with the band, albeit with Diane Warren songs. I agree, in 2033, If Journey is still relevant with Arnel, He should be included, and Auegri in 2023.

Exactly...the hall only wants to induct legacy players ...For Chicago, it's the original 7 and not all those guys that came after. Neal was not happy he got excluded when Santana got in (in 1998) and probably why he wants to fight for Arnel now. Knowing the kind of person Arnel is, I don't think he would mind much not being included.

Journey's legacy players are Perry-Schon-Rolie-Ross-Smitty-Dunbar-Cain. Like others have said, no way the hall changes their mind. Jon/Neal should worry more about accommodating for SP's presence than any hurt feelings Arnel may have. Consider what happened with Chicago last year. Peter Cetera made public announcement that he not only was showing up but will actually SING with the band. Fans rejoiced -- halleujah -- 1st time in 30 Years -- band reunion with the great PC. Then, it all felt apart, over pettiness. Fans chose sides on who's fault it was. No PC, no reunion performance.

Personally, if they can't work out something for SP to sing with the band, I don't think he should show up either. He has too much pride, and we as his fans, have too much pride for him to accept another singer up there taking his place -- on his night. I won't watch it...just like a lot of PC fans didn't last year.


If SP doesn't show up, what's the point, really? I won't watch it either, but I'm sure all of Arnel's fans will. Not that he's not doing his job, but his is not the voice I connect with the classic Journey sound that I love. I'm not expecting Perry to sound like he did back then, but he still sounds pretty good these days, and that's more than good enough for all his fans.
The injury that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance. Steve Perry
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Re: Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Op

Postby Memorex » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:28 am

WalrusOct9 wrote:
Memorex wrote:Hey Mr. Artist. Impress me. Don't speak of things you believe in if it does not impress me. I'm bothered by your beliefs and therefore your artistry should exclude your real feelings and only convey mine.

Sorry - I'd rather respect and ignore a true artist cause I can't get into his true art than listen to someone just repeating pop lines for a dollar.

Let's show some tolerance for people's beliefs. It's important to him - the lyricist. Gotta respect that.


Pretty sure god will have absolutely nothing to do with whether Journey gets into the R&RHOF. Reality sucks sometimes, but just passing everything off as 'god will make all my decisions' is both nauseating and lazy.


I think Jonathan would hand it all to God. I'm not saying that's what I think. I'm saying that's what he thinks. So your logic is not what he sees or feels. Jonathan would say that way of thinking is Brave and bold, not nauseating and lazy. People who feel this way really feel this way.
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Re: Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Op

Postby Memorex » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:30 am

STORY_TELLER wrote:
Memorex wrote:Hey Mr. Artist. Impress me. Don't speak of things you believe in if it does not impress me. I'm bothered by your beliefs and therefore your artistry should exclude your real feelings and only convey mine.

Sorry - I'd rather respect and ignore a true artist cause I can't get into his true art than listen to someone just repeating pop lines for a dollar.

Let's show some tolerance for people's beliefs. It's important to him - the lyricist. Gotta respect that.


I get your point, but, at the same time, while music is an art form, it's not just art. It's entertainment. Entertainment by nature is an attempt to appeal to a mass audience. In doing that, you're looking for something that will be attractive to most people. Writing a work intended for the entertainment of the masses (for the purpose of sale in a business venture) is always best serviced with lowest common denominator concepts. In other words: choose subject matter that most people can relate to.

I tolerate his beliefs. I just don't want him to try and sell it to me as part of my entertainment.


I get it. I would not likely listen either. But I don't expect them to sing my tune. In other words, if they want to turn to that way of writing, I can't blame them. It's what they feel. And I respect someone for keeping it personal.
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Re: Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Op

Postby perryfan61 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:51 am

Memorex wrote:
STORY_TELLER wrote:
Memorex wrote:Hey Mr. Artist. Impress me. Don't speak of things you believe in if it does not impress me. I'm bothered by your beliefs and therefore your artistry should exclude your real feelings and only convey mine.

Sorry - I'd rather respect and ignore a true artist cause I can't get into his true art than listen to someone just repeating pop lines for a dollar.

Let's show some tolerance for people's beliefs. It's important to him - the lyricist. Gotta respect that.


I get your point, but, at the same time, while music is an art form, it's not just art. It's entertainment. Entertainment by nature is an attempt to appeal to a mass audience. In doing that, you're looking for something that will be attractive to most people. Writing a work intended for the entertainment of the masses (for the purpose of sale in a business venture) is always best serviced with lowest common denominator concepts. In other words: choose subject matter that most people can relate to.

I tolerate his beliefs. I just don't want him to try and sell it to me as part of my entertainment.


I get it. I would not likely listen either. But I don't expect them to sing my tune. In other words, if they want to turn to that way of writing, I can't blame them. It's what they feel. And I respect someone for keeping it personal.


Agreed. He's obviously passionate about his beliefs, which is fine by me. I won't be buying his Christian CD, but that doesn't mean I think he shouldn't have made it.

He writes about what inspires him, and I think right now his beliefs fill that bill. If and when he writes for Journey again, it will be because he is inspired again by the band, and the music will reflect that.
The injury that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance. Steve Perry
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Re: Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Op

Postby STORY_TELLER » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:43 pm

perryfan61 wrote:
Memorex wrote:I get it. I would not likely listen either. But I don't expect them to sing my tune. In other words, if they want to turn to that way of writing, I can't blame them. It's what they feel. And I respect someone for keeping it personal.


Agreed. He's obviously passionate about his beliefs, which is fine by me. I won't be buying his Christian CD, but that doesn't mean I think he shouldn't have made it.

He writes about what inspires him, and I think right now his beliefs fill that bill. If and when he writes for Journey again, it will be because he is inspired again by the band, and the music will reflect that.


Perryfan:
I think you are misunderstanding me a bit. I'm not dogging his beliefs or his right to practice or preach it. More power to him on his solo album. I absolutely support his right to do so and I wish him all the success in the world with it.

I'm dogging his choice to do it through Journey. I hope you are correct that the band alone is what will be inspiring him on the next Journey album, but I have to go based on what he did on Eclipse, and unfortunately, I found too much of it to be a preachy, cheesy, mess. That had nothing to do with the instrumentals and everything to do with his lyric choices and subject matter. Could be that he wasn't inspired by Neal's direction so he went inward to find some inspiration to wrap his head around. I'm hoping it was a one time hiccup, but everything he's been saying (God this, God that) has me worried he's going to go even FURTHER in that direction. Again, I hope you are correct.

Memorex:
I get what you're saying, and in principle, I agree. An artist should be free to express him/herself as they see fit. I absolutely respect that -- But -- There is a practical side of this and the reality is a hard slap in the face for artists who want to make a living at what they love doing.

I promise, I'm not asking him to sing my tune. I'm just asking him to practice what he's been preaching. :lol:

Jon complained Eclipse didn't give the fans what they expect from Journey musically. But changing the subject matter from relatable issues and the struggles of the every-man to reflecting his personal spirituality is?

He's also pointing to album sales as a reason for why he has NOT been interested in working on new Journey material. His answer to that is to write material that runs a danger of alienating a measure of their existing fan base and will likely appeal to a smaller audience?

See what I'm getting at?


I'm not saying he can't change what they write about. In fact, I'd love a change of approach and subject matter. It would be great for him to explore areas he hasn't before. I welcome that growth. I'm simply saying one's spiritual beliefs are very subjective and preaching to others can be a huge turn off. There's a sea of untapped subject matter out there that doesn't run the risk of alienation, and he should consider his audience if he's concerned about Journey as a business -- and from his own mouth, he is. Very much so. Well, he can't have it both ways.

All said respectfully of course. Nothing about this should be taken as me flaming anyone.
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Re: Following Rock Hall Nomination, Journey Says 'Door Is Op

Postby lparn » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:18 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:Here's another 'what if' to consider. If the band is that adamant about having Arnel inducted, because he put in so much time to keep the Journey brand alive and well, then shouldn't they also feel the same about Deen Castronovo? Yes, he was let go from the band for unfortunate reasons. But he was also an intricate part of rebuilding the machine and keeping it afloat. He had the longest consecutive stint on drums (same argument they are using for Arnel's vocals), and he stepped up to double duty with some great live vocals that were true to Perry's vocals. I know this is out of the question, but if the band is so uptight about having Arnel included, this point isn't too far off the mark, either.



I agree with this too. Deen did contribute in the years he was with the band to keep them out there and create new music.
He has been working on his situation and that doesn't for me diminish his contributions. I think Arnel has contributed to the legacy as well. I do agree with the people the hall has listed as well. Don't think augeri should be included. Arnel and Deen have contributed to the band and legacy.
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