Robert Fleischman FB

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Robert Fleischman FB

Postby tater1977 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:21 am

Robert Fleischman FB
https://www.facebook.com/robert.fleischman3?fref=ts
8 hrs ·

When I was with Journey I was the one that suggested Roy Thomas Baker to produce Infinity... they didn't even know who he was back then..I told them he produced and recorded Queen.. so the record company and management got a hold of him ..and we had a meeting with Roy me and band prior to me leaving..I wish Arnel..Perry.. Aguirre..and myself would be acknowledged by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.. I think that would be fair to petition for that outcome.. I would like to see the Journey team push for that..more out of respect for everyone who played a major role in the band.. like I said before it's a family all the seeds made the tree grow to become Journey..
To make this clear...
I'm not complaining I'm just championing the idea that everyone should be involved...R
Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby tater1977 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:33 am

Miles W. - I agree... I think it is very lame how they are excluding all members that have played a part in the generations of this band.

· November 21 at 11:09pm


Robert Fleischman - Neal should petition to have the whole band include .. the day I walked into the rehearsal Studio was when Journey emerged... everyone that contributed was like a seed that made the tree that it is today... it's a family

November 22 at 12:08am · Edited
Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Memorex » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:02 am

I just don't buy into this. Suggesting a producer somehow shapes music history? Enough to be in the hall of fame? Some keep thinking of this in terms of what they did for Journey rather than what Journey did for music. And if you focus on what Journey did for music, the players are the Infinity through Frontiers group. Period. No other album or make-up of the band moved the music needle one bit.

I would say, from the business aspect, there are players that should be recognized. People who built and ran things behind the scenes and changed the way the business aspects worked from then on. But as far as band members, Infinity through Frontiers and that's it.

Fleischman in the hall of fame. Ugh. You know, the only non-Perry singer that had it all on the line was Augeri. This guy had to follow Perry first. He had to be that first comparison and try to sing that catalog with the band having not learned a lesson on burning out the vocalist. I'd give him all kinds of side-kudos way above the others, but still not Hall of Fame as it did not change or shape music at all. It wasn't like Sammy coming into VH and changing the whole thing with new success with new music. Fleischman should congratulate his former band mates and otherwise shut the fuck up. That's my opinion.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby perryfan61 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:22 am

He got to be included in the Walk of Fame, I think that should just about cover what he is owed.
Of course, in his mind, he was a force in making the band what it was at its peak, but many would disagree. Obviously the HOF does. Co-writing 3 or 4 songs does not compare to what SP contributed.
I'm sure if he was included, most Journey fans ( not hard core) would say " Robert who??"
The injury that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance. Steve Perry
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Ehwmatt » Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:14 am

This guy has severe delusions of grandeur. Under no circumstance should he even be given even passing consideration for inclusion in the HOF.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Memorex » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:42 am

perryfan61 wrote:He got to be included in the Walk of Fame, I think that should just about cover what he is owed.
Of course, in his mind, he was a force in making the band what it was at its peak, but many would disagree. Obviously the HOF does. Co-writing 3 or 4 songs does not compare to what SP contributed.
I'm sure if he was included, most Journey fans ( not hard core) would say " Robert who??"


Not to mention there would no longer be Journey fans hif he remained the singer. They would have been a footnote in history of ex Santana member. As good and gifted as the musicians are, it would never have skyrocketed without Perry.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby scarab » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:02 am

What about Andy Avery? :lol:
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby perryfan61 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:50 am

scarab wrote:What about Andy Avery? :lol:


:D :D :lol: :roll:
Forgot all about this guy, had to refresh my memory.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby tater1977 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:35 am

scarab wrote:What about Andy Avery? :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

All the replacement singers Neal has picked, had to sound like SP
not RF. Glad RF co wrote a couple songs while in Journey, but it
was that spin that the band put on it after SP came in.
Last edited by tater1977 on Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby tater1977 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:41 am

2 Founding Members of Journey say

https://youtu.be/NUKPx7Cwi8c
Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby perryfan61 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:50 am

tater1977 wrote:2 Founding Members of Journey say

https://youtu.be/NUKPx7Cwi8c


If Ross and Neal think 1978 was the start of the "bigger picture", I can't see them petitioning the HOF to let Robert in. Not that it would do any good anyway. If Arnel is not in, than there is no way Robert is in.
The injury that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance. Steve Perry
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Marabelle » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:51 pm

Good for him. We haven't heard a word from him for quite some time. I thought for several hours that it was the other guy who wrote the facebook post but nope...it's was him after all. Cheers.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby JourneyHard » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:42 pm

Maybe Journey with Arnel can re-record "All For You."
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Pacfanweb » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:19 am

Ehwmatt wrote:This guy has severe delusions of grandeur. Under no circumstance should he even be given even passing consideration for inclusion in the HOF.


Agreed. He was a part of the unsuccessful period of Journey, the part that the vast majority of fans don't even know about.

Not HOF-worthy.

This would be like saying the guy who Michael Jordan replaced and the Bulls subsequently traded should get a championship ring because he was "there at the formation of the team".
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby STORY_TELLER » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:21 am

What made Journey popular was Perry's ear candy voice. The very first time he took the stage in his surprise audition, all the roadies and service people stopped what they were doing and walked over to check him out, and that was the tale of things to come. It was that voice that made the world take notice of that band, and, it was Neal and Perry's mystical melodic chemistry that made the songs hits. That pairing is what put Journey on the map.

Fact is, whatever contribution RF made in the writing of the songs he was involved with, was altered by Perry in the final versions. If you go an listen to the demo of "Anytime" on the Time 3 box set, you can hear what it was before Perry changed the melody and song structure choices -- and it sucked. I read somewhere recently even management said it sucked at the time (before Perry's involvement). Jon Cain himself acknowledged in an interview (found in another thread on this board right now) that in their writing partnership, Cain was mostly the words, but Perry was the force behind the melodies (which I might add, results in changes to the words to make them fit the melody).

Robert Fleischman has been trying to ride the coattails of Journey's success for years. Now he's trying to ride them into the HOF. The irony is, had he continued to be Journey's singer, we wouldn't be talking about a band called Journey today and that band would not be nominated let alone get into the HOF. They would have been a one hit wonder with Wheel in the Sky at best, and I'd even go so far to say that it is unlikely that song would have charted as high as it did if we were left with Fleischman's version of it.

Robert Fleischman is not even a has been. He's a never was.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Marabelle » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:00 am

It means nothing but a man trying to claim his pride. Good for him but the train has left the station a long time ago.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby slucero » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:31 am

STORY_TELLER wrote:What made Journey popular was Perry's ear candy voice. The very first time he took the stage in his surprise audition, all the roadies and service people stopped what they were doing and walked over to check him out, and that was the tale of things to come. It was that voice that made the world take notice of that band, and, it was Neal and Perry's mystical melodic chemistry that made the songs hits. That pairing is what put Journey on the map.

Fact is, whatever contribution RF made in the writing of the songs he was involved with, was altered by Perry in the final versions. If you go an listen to the demo of "Anytime" on the Time 3 box set, you can hear what it was before Perry changed the melody and song structure choices -- and it sucked. I read somewhere recently even management said it sucked at the time (before Perry's involvement). Jon Cain himself acknowledged in an interview (found in another thread on this board right now) that in their writing partnership, Cain was mostly the words, but Perry was the force behind the melodies (which I might add, results in changes to the words to make them fit the melody).

Robert Fleischman has been trying to ride the coattails of Journey's success for years. Now he's trying to ride them into the HOF. The irony is, had he continued to be Journey's singer, we wouldn't be talking about a band called Journey today and that band would not be nominated let alone get into the HOF. They would have been a one hit wonder with Wheel in the Sky at best, and I'd even go so far to say that it is unlikely that song would have charted as high as it did if we were left with Fleischman's version of it.



Robert Fleischman is not even a has been. He's a never was.



BINGO.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Art Vandelay » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:52 pm

If you follow Fleischmann's logic, then you have to induct George Tickner, Prairie Prince, Michael Baird, Randy Jackson, Deen Castronovo and Jeff Scott Soto as well. And if you line them up in order of importance, Fleischman stands second to last, next to Prairie Prince. He actually ties with Baird for second to last. Baird has zero writing contributions, but at least fulfilled an entire tour. And Soto gets a bump for rescuing them from a crash and burn situation. :P
"Serenity now...insanity later."
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Monker » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:11 am

I'm sorry but this post is factually incorrect, mixed in with biased opinion being presented as fact.

What made Journey popular was Perry's ear candy voice.


That is your biased opinion, and there are facts that do not back this up.

It was that voice that made the world take notice of that band, and, it was Neal and Perry's mystical melodic chemistry that made the songs hits. That pairing is what put Journey on the map.


Wrong, and again it is mixed in with your biased opinion.

From Infinity through Captured (Infinity, Evolution, Departure, Captured, Dream After Dream, and In the Begining), the band had only one top 10 hit, LTS. If it were only Perry, or Perry + Neal, then they would have had a lot more success than they did by 1980. Even the Robyn Flans book calls Journey a "Fledging rock band"...in other words, a band that had not matured into the best it could be.

What put Journey "on the map" was Perry/Schon/Cain. It is a simple fact. It was not until they added Jonathan that they became crazy popular with 8x platinum Escape and 6x platinum Frontiers, and monsterous tours that set records.

Fact is, whatever contribution RF made in the writing of the songs he was involved with, was altered by Perry in the final versions. If you go an listen to the demo of "Anytime" on the Time 3 box set, you can hear what it was before Perry changed the melody and song structure choices -- and it sucked. I read somewhere recently even management said it sucked at the time (before Perry's involvement). Jon Cain himself acknowledged in an interview (found in another thread on this board right now) that in their writing partnership, Cain was mostly the words, but Perry was the force behind the melodies (which I might add, results in changes to the words to make them fit the melody).


Very little of this is fact...almost ALL of it is YOUR opinion and speculation. You have NO IDEA what those Infinity songs would have sounded like if Fleischman had been in the band to record Infinity - NOBODY DOES. It is ALL speculation. What was in the box set was a DEMO, not a finished song.

The same goes for the breakdown of the songwriting. When I listen to how some songs were written, it seems very organic...that everybody (even Steve Smith and Ross Valory) contributed bits, not 'assigned' roles, but as needed. To simplify it down to "Perry contributed mainly the melodies," and "Cain contributed mainly lyrics," diminishes Perry's ability to write lyrics and Cain's ability to write music, and does not even recongnize Neal.

The irony is, had he continued to be Journey's singer, we wouldn't be talking about a band called Journey today and that band would not be nominated let alone get into the HOF.


Again, that is absolute pure speculation based on your biased opinion. It's no different than saying Steve Perry would have never been heard of it wasn't for Journey. You have NO CLUE where Journey would be today if he had not been fired by Herbie.

They would have been a one hit wonder with Wheel in the Sky at best, and I'd even go so far to say that it is unlikely that song would have charted as high as it did if we were left with Fleischman's version of it.


This just shines of pure ignorance. "Wheel In the Sky" charted at #57. Not exactly a huge hit single that hit some high mark that is unachievable by Fleischman, or anybody else.

Robert Fleischman is not even a has been. He's a never was.


So what. That doesn't mean you have to make things up, exagerate Journey's success between 1978 - 1980, and generaly state your opinions as fact.

Including Fleischman would be like including Omar Hakim, or Prairie Prince, or even JSS or Jeremy. He toured with them and wrote a few songs. Big deal.

Augeri, and Arnel, have a much better case to make.

However, that's not what the HOF is about any longer. It's about making money from the spectacle and concert, especially if a reunion can happen. THAT is why Journey will be inducted. THAT is why you will not see Arnel, or Augeri, or JSS, or Feischman. Not because the HOF thinks they don't deserve it, but because they can make a bunch of money from the most popular line up. Ironicaly, the very reason they hate bands like Journey is now the reason why they are inducted. Sad, very sad.

If anything all this thread proved to me is that Herbie should be in the HOF. His ability to promote Journey has people convinced that they were HUGE in the late 70's, which they were not. His smarts to fire Fleischman and hire Perry has people convinced that everything boils down to Perry's voice. His ability to keep the catalog "ever grean" over the years has people thinking that only 1978 - 1986 matters.

As much as any of the band members, Herbie contributed to their success...IMO, if someone should be added to this list of inductees, it's Herbie...not Fleischman or Arnel.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby JourneyHard » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:15 am

Let me start off by saying I am glad things worked out the way they did with Steve Perry being the lead singer in Journey for all those magical years. However, there is no way to know how Journey would have been if Robert Fleischman would have been lead singer. It could have been horrible and no record sales. Or I suspect they could have been awesome, but with a different fan base. There are millions of people who hate Journey because of Steve Perry. You cannot deny this. Perhaps these people would have been fans if Robert Fleischman were lead singer for five albums. There is no way to know. All we can do is guess.

To sum up, I am glad Journey made all those albums with Steve Perry because it was a magical ride, but we don't know what would have happened if Robert were there instead.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Memorex » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:42 am

JourneyHard wrote:Let me start off by saying I am glad things worked out the way they did with Steve Perry being the lead singer in Journey for all those magical years. However, there is no way to know how Journey would have been if Robert Fleischman would have been lead singer. It could have been horrible and no record sales. Or I suspect they could have been awesome, but with a different fan base. There are millions of people who hate Journey because of Steve Perry. You cannot deny this. Perhaps these people would have been fans if Robert Fleischman were lead singer for five albums. There is no way to know. All we can do is guess.

To sum up, I am glad Journey made all those albums with Steve Perry because it was a magical ride, but we don't know what would have happened if Robert were there instead.


Hard to say because of Neal's talent, but otherwise bands that sounded like Fleischman-fronted bands were a dime a dozen. We certainly know who did become huge and who didn't. If Fleischman had that "It" factor, it would have worked out for him better than it did. No one can say for sure, of course, but that doesn't change the fact that he did nothing in his career to earn a spot in the ROR HOF.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby perryfan61 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:07 pm

"Very little of this is fact...almost ALL of it is YOUR opinion and speculation. You have NO IDEA what those Infinity songs would have sounded like if Fleischman had been in the band to record Infinity - NOBODY DOES. It is ALL speculation. What was in the box set was a DEMO, not a finished song."

Monker,...

From an interview Jonathan gave, posted on another thread today, he didn't care much for RF's version of WITS.He said Perry took to a whole new level...it was a "leap" above what it started out to be. I don't think RF could have taken the band very far, and Jonathan admits that.

I agree that Herbie should be added to the list, but do managers usually get inducted? I don't know.
The injury that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance. Steve Perry
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby STORY_TELLER » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:48 pm

All right, I tried to avoid being baited into Monker's usual bullshit, but for the sake others reading this who don't know Monker and don't know about his Perry bashing agenda, I thought I should state a few things. I won't be responding to him again. He can go off on whatever hair splitting tirade he wants.

Monker, try as you might, you can't change the fact that Perry was the spearhead of that band and he was the driving force for its success.

Neal and Ross both have said Perry brought all the success to the band. Neal himself was touting Journey's HUGE success before Cain joined in a very recent post. The singles might not have charted top ten, but the albums were in fact selling platinum before Cain arrived. Sure, they went into the stratosphere when he got there, but they were heading in that musical direction already and that was Perry and Neal getting there on their own (see Hopelessly in Love).

Cain just recently talked about how he wrote the words but it was Perry who was the real melody guy and he credits his partnership with Perry for his greatest success but hey, YOU know better than the band, so WHATEVER dude.

There is more to this than the sales numbers in the history books. History has to be experienced to be understood. By the end of the Rollie era, the fan base was very aware of Journey and their numbers were growing from touring. Journey had just won the Bammies and JC's first outing with the band was playing two songs he had nothing to do with at their acceptance ceremony. Journey between Rollie and Cain was like Bon Jovi between 7800 Fahrenheit and Slippery When Wet. The fans were dying for the next album to come out, and that next album was Escape. That's not something you can explain with science and numbers. That's the culmination of momentum. It's a force of energy.

As for the Fleishman thing -- :roll: -- To reduce this equation to a simple "we can't truly know because we can't read the tea leaves" is a bullshit cop out. This is not a complicated equation to figure out. Musical chemistry is not something you can manufacture with a snap of the fingers. Neal brought something out of Perry's voice he wasn't finding on his own, and Perry steered Neal into a direction he didn't want to go. The band didn't want a "crooner" like Perry. They wanted a screamer. They wanted another Robert Plant just like most rock bands of that era. Bands like that were a dime a dozen at the time, and that's the path they were on with Fleishman. Where are those copycat acts now?

Herbie said the band didn't know how to be song writers. They were an instrumental jam group. They were directionless and they were on the verge of losing their record contract. You really believe Robert Fleishman was going to bring them the success Perry brought to the band? YES he did bring it to the band. Neal said so himself. Let me say that again Monker -- NEAL said so.

Neal recently called Journey a powerful mixture of Rock and Soul. That is what gave Journey its legs and that is what gave it its longevity. Without Steve Perry in the band they NEVER would have gone in that direction and they NEVER would have made the songs they made.

There was nothing special about Robert Fleishman. He certainly did not have the musical chemistry with Neal that Perry had. NOBODY has had that chemistry with Neal besides Perry. That was a lightning in a bottle pairing. Journey would have gone the path of Head East with Robert Fleishman at the helm. They would have been a one hit wonder and lost their contract. You think success and longevity in the entertainment business is easy to achieve and maintain? You haven't got clue one mr. armchair warrior.

And we know what you're going to say: Yes, there is measure of speculation to all of this, but, I suppose we also can't really know if OJ killed Nicole either, right Monker? Give me a break....

As for Herbie being inducted, no, he shouldn't be, and here's why:
Yes, he was absolutely responsible for their success. He brought Perry into the band. Hell, he FORCED him on them. He steered the behind the scenes business magic that got their music heard, he steered their tours and made deals that brought them money from places other than the record sales alone -- but he didn't create their music. Herbie had no artistic hand in the creation of Journey's music, and it's the music that is at issue.

All the brilliant business moves and greasing of palms to get an album played on air doesn't affect the public's like or dislike of what they hear. If the public shuns it and doesn't buy it, the band is done.

The music Journey made WITH STEVE PERRY shaped music in that era. Millions of people bought it. Millions of people loved it. Millions of people still listen to it today and other bands and singers have tried to emulate Journey and Steve Perry. That's why the members of Journey listed by the HOF deserve to be in the HOF -- and no one else.

The HOF got it right this time. They got it right.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby MysteryMountain » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:13 am

Monker wrote:
Robert Fleischman is not even a has been. He's a never was.


So what. That doesn't mean you have to make things up, exagerate Journey's success between 1978 - 1980, and generaly state your opinions as fact.


First off a message board is typically speculation & opinion. I don't think he was that far out of line or off point with the reply he posted, basically saying Steve Perry was the key ingredient, not the ONLY ingredient, but certainly a huge key to the following success they would have (Escape & beyond).

What do you consider successful other than a top ten hit? Sold out arenas? Millions of Albums Sales? Did the Grateful Dead ever have a top 10 hit? Truckin' maybe? Pink Floyd? ABITW? Seems like a bit of a shortcut to thinking to simply say because they had only 1 'hit' that they weren't successful. I'm talking 'late 70s' here or post-Evolution (charted at #20) & pre-Departure - because if you look at album sales & tour attendance for those two albums, then success based on a top ten hit is irrelevant. To dismiss them prior to Escape as 'unsuccessful' is absurd. By using album sales & attendance numbers, they were already ON THE MAP by 1980. Yes, their 'delivering' of the 'hits' came with the next wave of Journey that included Jon Cain and his contributions, no doubt. However, I think Infinity, Evolution, & Departure had really paved the way for that step by creating a huge fan base. With that in place Escape put them into the stratosphere with that final lineup. But to the point, RF had NOTHING to do with any of that. He should have sidestepped any comments about that and remained classy. Clearly he cares and it's a huge chip on his shoulder about it. Now, this is coming from a guy who preferred the anonymity of the first 3 albums, and I guarantee they will NOT play a single song from those if they do play at the induction. Quite frankly, to me, that's Journey. The 4 piece of those first 3 albums. But you have to add Steve Perry, Steve Smith, & Jon Cain because that's what most people define Journey as and when really when things blew up for them, to the point where success could be measured far beyond their successes up to that point. Bottom line for me, those are the 7 members who should be present & play at the HOF. As much as I like what Arnel has been able to do, and how Auggeri also kept the band relevant, I'd prefer those 7. Just my two cents.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby MysteryMountain » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:29 am

STORY_TELLER wrote:There is more to this than the sales numbers in the history books. History has to be experienced to be understood. By the end of the Rollie era, the fan base was very aware of Journey and their numbers were growing from touring. Journey had just won the Bammies and JC's first outing with the band was playing two songs he had nothing to do with at their acceptance ceremony. Journey between Rollie and Cain was like Bon Jovi between 7800 Fahrenheit and Slippery When Wet. The fans were dying for the next album to come out, and that next album was Escape. That's not something you can explain with science and numbers. That's the culmination of momentum. It's a force of energy.


^I think this is what I was also trying to say.

I'd even take it a step further, Greg Rolie, had he still been in the band, would not have deterred their success with Escape, due to that notion. The songs may have been different, and I'm not going to say Frontiers and what followed would have had same success, but I honestly think Journey could have laid an absolute egg with Escape and it still would have sold 5 million records because of what had been done with the previous 3 albums (Infinity, Evolution, Departure) and that would have been because of Perry, Schon, & Greg not in spite of them.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Monker » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:08 am

for the sake others reading this who don't know Monker and don't know about his Perry bashing agenda, I thought I should state a few things.


Out of the 20 or so people who read this thread, I wonder how many don't know me. You really saved the forum with this post dude.

There is no Perry bashing agenda. That's silly...and you are the one who is going into some type of defensive mode with this post.

The bottom line in this is you did two things:

First, you are writing an alternate history of Journey without Perry and with Fleischman. No matter how much you think you know, no matter what facts you present, you are still writing fiction and YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. It is impossible.

Second is you gave credit to Journey's success first to Steve Perry, and then to Perry/Schon. My point is that the credit should go to Perry/Schon/Cain. There is not one nor two who is more important or did more for Journey than the others. The success that Journey is remembered for should be credited to all three of them equally...and none of this sillyness of Perry bringing them success, or Perry/Schon put them on the map, or whatever other crap people like you post is relevant.

Finally, in this post you are now trying to quote band members to prove your point. There are so many interviews, so many quotes from all of them that you can cherry pick and use them to prove whatever you want. Perry never felt like part of the band. Neal said he HATED Steve Perry. Jonathan said he wanted to give Neal HIS band back after TBF. And, on and on and on.

In general, IMO, Neal says whatever is PC for the time. When he moved on without Perry, it was all about "his" band and Neal and Jonathan were just as much a part of those songs as Perry was so they should be able to continue. When he was in Hardline, he didn't even want to talk about a Journey reunion because Hardline was about to break and be huge at any moment. When JSS entered, it was all about moving into a different direction. When Arnel entered, it was all about respecting the legacy sound.

So, now here we are at a time of nostalgia and recongnizing Journey's history. Of course Neal and the rest of the band are going to say respectful things about Perry. That has been going on ever since Arnel joined the band and they were trying recapture the legacy sound.

Of course Herbie is not going to be inducted. But, he contributed as much, if not more, to the success of Journey than any of the band members. If that is all that matters, then Herbie SHOULD be there.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Monker » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:09 am

What do you consider successful other than a top ten hit? Sold out arenas? Millions of Albums Sales?


All of the above.

Did the Grateful Dead ever have a top 10 hit? Truckin' maybe?


"A Touch of Gray"

Pink Floyd? ABITW?


I don't know...I'd have to look them up. Either "Another Brick in the Wall" or "Learning to Fly", or both.

If your point is that singles alone do not define success, then Led Zeppelin is the best example.

Seems like a bit of a shortcut to thinking to simply say because they had only 1 'hit' that they weren't successful.


I did not say "unsuccessful" or that they were not a success.
My point is the success Journey is remembered for did not happen until Jonathan joined for Escape. That is a fact. They are not remembered as a band that had one hit single over four studio albums, a live album, and a compliation...but four or five hits on every album. They are not remembered for 2x platinum albums, but for 6x -10x platinum albums. They are not remembered for selling 10,000 seats, but for 50,000 seats and multiple days...and concerts that later influenced U2 and had bands like the Who using Nocturn's equipment.

Journey in the 80's DWARFED Journey in the 70's..and everything since ROR, including TBF.

To dismiss them prior to Escape as 'unsuccessful' is absurd. By using album sales & attendance numbers, they were already ON THE MAP by 1980.


It depends on what you mean by "on the map".

But to the point, RF had NOTHING to do with any of that.


Which is exactly what I said.

Again, my point was that exagerating and inventing fictional alternate timelines does not need to be done. Fleischman has as much a place in the HOF as JSS. That is really the best comparison, IMO.

Now, this is coming from a guy who preferred the anonymity of the first 3 albums, and I guarantee they will NOT play a single song from those if they do play at the induction.


There is no way the HOF is going allow Journey in if they refuse to perform.

I would not discount the pre-Perry songs being performed. They were performing some of them all the way through the Departure tour so it would not surprise me at all of they put at least one in there.

Quite frankly, to me, that's Journey. The 4 piece of those first 3 albums. But you have to add Steve Perry, Steve Smith, & Jon Cain because that's what most people define Journey as and when really when things blew up for them, to the point where success could be measured far beyond their successes up to that point. Bottom line for me, those are the 7 members who should be present & play at the HOF. As much as I like what Arnel has been able to do, and how Auggeri also kept the band relevant, I'd prefer those 7. Just my two cents.


Here is the problem: The people who run the HOF hate bands like Journey. The are corporate crap. None of the previous matters to them.

But, they make a ton of money off of the ceromony and concert. THAT is why they will be added...and they will add the most popular players who performed on the most popular music and have them perform it in concert so the HOF can make a ton of money from it.
Last edited by Monker on Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby perryfan61 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:30 am

I realise that the whole thing is a money grab....what isn't in the music business? But it's a matter of pride for us fans to get our band inducted on their first try...even more so because it is so long overdue. AND to make a statement to the industry that we feel this band is still relevant and deserves to be recognised for what they have contributed.
The injury that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance. Steve Perry
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby STORY_TELLER » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:37 am

Monker wrote:
for the sake others reading this who don't know Monker and don't know about his Perry bashing agenda, I thought I should state a few things.


Out of the 20 or so people who read this thread, I wonder how many don't know me. You really saved the forum with this post dude.


If only 20 or so people read this board, or read this thread, then explain the view count in the statistics column on the Journey view forum main page. It currently shows 630 views of this thread alone. The HOF thread has almost 3000.

Not everyone who reads these boards posts here and I would go so far as they don't check in often enough to know much about you.

This is the only thing I'm going to respond to, because the rest is just more of the same from you: Hair splitting reinterpreting bullshit. You did it yourself in your own response to me. You're just as guilty of speculation on that front as the rest of us, so go throw another stone in your glass house dude.
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Re: Robert Fleischman FB

Postby Eric » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:16 am

I'd argue that without all the work they put in....Escape would not have been as popular. That is....if Cain/Schon/Perry started a new band in 1981 and wrote Escape and Journey 73-80 never existed then Escape wouldn't have been the same.

73-77 was foundation for 78-80 and 73-80 was foundation for 81-83.
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