Deen says "No Journey"...

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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Aaron wrote:
^^^^This^^^g


Eclipse is the most musically interesting album the band has done in decades. Let me guess - your idea of Journey is "All the Way" and "With Your Love"?
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby Journey/Survivor » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:54 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Aaron wrote:
^^^^This^^^g


Eclipse is the most musically interesting album the band has done in decades.


Definitely :!:
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby Eric » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:24 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Eclipse is the most musically interesting album the band has done in decades. Let me guess - your idea of Journey is "All the Way" and "With Your Love"?


Agreed. They not only have too many ballads in their library at this point - distorting to some just how good of a rock band they are - but there is ZERO room to play any new ballads in concert. There is just no point to make the same record over and over again. There WAS a point in the late 90's because they had been gone and needed to show they were still Journey... but not anymore.

Eclipse was amazing and sounds fresh as hell even 6 years later. Andrew knows gold - and graded it as such.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby Journey/Survivor » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:34 am

Eric wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Eclipse is the most musically interesting album the band has done in decades. Let me guess - your idea of Journey is "All the Way" and "With Your Love"?


Agreed. They not only have too many ballads in their library at this point - distorting to some just how good of a rock band they are - but there is ZERO room to play any new ballads in concert. There is just no point to make the same record over and over again. There WAS a point in the late 90's because they had been gone and needed to show they were still Journey... but not anymore.

Eclipse was amazing and sounds fresh as hell even 6 years later. Andrew knows gold - and graded it as such.


Great post! And absolutely accurate!
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby scarab » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:58 am

Eclipse was a great and fresh CD.
Resonate was the best rocker since Sep Ways.

What killed this CD was the very dull and predictable City of Hope and the god awful "video" for Resonate.
Love you Schon, but dont want to see you and your wife rolling on the beach.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby brywool » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:00 am

Never got the problem with City of Hope.
But yeah... wasn't a fan of the Resonate video.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby scarab » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:17 am

scarab wrote:Eclipse was a great and fresh CD.
Resonate was the best rocker since Sep Ways.

What killed this CD was the very dull and predictable City of Hope and the god awful "video" for Resonate.
If I remember right these are the only videos released.
Heard Anything is Possible was also released, a great song, but never heard it on the radio.
Resonate rocks, Love you Schon, but dont want to see you and your wife rolling on the beach.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby Journey/Survivor » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:11 am

brywool wrote:Never got the problem with City of Hope.
But yeah... wasn't a fan of the Resonate video.


I like City Of Hope. It's not my favorite song on the album, but I think it's really good.
I've never seen the Resonate video, but I do love the song.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby Monker » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:00 am

scarab wrote:Eclipse was a great and fresh CD.
Resonate was the best rocker since Sep Ways.

What killed this CD was the very dull and predictable City of Hope and the god awful "video" for Resonate.
Love you Schon, but dont want to see you and your wife rolling on the beach.


"City of Hope" was fine, so was the video. "Resonate" seems slightly over hyped and had a bad video. But, in this age, videos mean very little. What killed Eclipse was very little label support, an over-estimate of the fan base based on Revelation sales, and a fan backlash on the change of sound.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby Monker » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:11 am

Eric wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Eclipse is the most musically interesting album the band has done in decades. Let me guess - your idea of Journey is "All the Way" and "With Your Love"?


Agreed. They not only have too many ballads in their library at this point - distorting to some just how good of a rock band they are - but there is ZERO room to play any new ballads in concert. There is just no point to make the same record over and over again. There WAS a point in the late 90's because they had been gone and needed to show they were still Journey... but not anymore.

Eclipse was amazing and sounds fresh as hell even 6 years later. Andrew knows gold - and graded it as such.


Eclipse has far too much influence from Neal. There is need for Journey to have three Neal's all playing at the same time. One should always be enough. One of the beautiful things about Escape was it's simplicity in every way. Eclipse was trying to be Neal's baby as well as songwriting sticking close to the "Namaste" concept of religious and philosophy themes. It worked at times ("Anything is Possible") but over all, IMO, it simply didn't. It is Neal's version of Perry's ROR.

Andrew doesn't ALWAYS know gold...this album was not gold, it was dirt. Even if you love this album, it alienated the fanbase for the n'th time. Once with the entrance of Augeri alienating Perry only fans, then JSS alienating those who didn't want a significant vocal change, then again with Journey returning back to the "retro sound" which they had insisted they were moving on from...from the moment Augeri was hired....then again moving on from the legacy sound with Eclipse being a guitar driven "Neal's baby" album. That is not a recipe for 'gold', no matter how good the album is.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby tater1977 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:25 am

Journey/Survivor wrote:
brywool wrote:Never got the problem with City of Hope.
But yeah... wasn't a fan of the Resonate video.


I like City Of Hope. It's not my favorite song on the album, but I think it's really good.
I've never seen the Resonate video, but I do love the song.

Resonate (Official Video by The Journey)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30kTck4hCLI
Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby Monker » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:27 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:
StoneCold wrote:I've forgotten a lot of Journey history.

What was Perry's reason for booting Smith from RoR? I know he did a few tracks before leaving.

Smith's drumming on TBF is some of my favorite along with Frontiers.


During the writing of ROR, Perry/Cain/Schon wrote the songs using computers and drum machines in place of Ross and Smith. In the past they had always been part of the writing process, so it was a big change. When it came time to rehearse the songs for recording, Smith and Valory could not reproduce the computer and drum machine sounds in the way Perry wanted. So, they were fired.


That was one floated rumor. Another was that Ross was in rehab. Let's be honest - the drums and bass lines on ROR would have been pretty easy for Smitty and Bass to play live. As with anything, there are two sides to every story and then there's the truth. Someone should ask Herbie.


No, it's not a rumor....it's the repeated explanation of the band, even on the BTM.

Does that mean it's the complete truth? Probably not...judging by some of the old interviews by Steve Smith - he was pissed at Perry for years afterward. There was an interview with Neal for "Late Nite" where he talked about being so pissed at Perry for the way he was auditioning drummers and how he axed people like Omar Hakim. Neal would show up to record and Perry would say, "I can see you will be good for nothing today..." and he would cut his solo in one take and then leave.

Also, if you read Steve Smith interviews, it's different playing organically and playing to the beat of a drum machine. The truth is after Journey he had to train himself to play to a drum machine a bit better to be a good studio musician, and for TBF. He absolutely hated what Perry wanted him to do for ROIR. IMO, Steve Smith (and Ross) was in the right. It's a BAND, not Steve Perry featuring the rest of Journey (ie: Journey...featuring Michael Baird and Randy Jackson. Baird and Jackson were NOT members of the band). And, they were fired during the RECORDING of ROR, not for the tour.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby JourneyHard » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:59 pm

I can really hear Steve Perry in my head singing all the songs on Eclipse. Perry would add a special magic to all the songs, and clean up some of the lyrics. I think Perry would especially love Tantra. It is epic like Still They Ride. In my humble opinion, Perry would have made Eclipse a major hit album. I love Arnel, but even Arnel must admit Perry is magical.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby scarab » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:06 pm

tater1977 wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:
brywool wrote:Never got the problem with City of Hope.
But yeah... wasn't a fan of the Resonate video.


I like City Of Hope. It's not my favorite song on the album, but I think it's really good.
I've never seen the Resonate video, but I do love the song.

Resonate (Official Video by The Journey)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30kTck4hCLI



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyF-VleZXJQ

:lol:
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby brywool » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:03 am

JourneyHard wrote:I can really hear Steve Perry in my head singing all the songs on Eclipse. Perry would add a special magic to all the songs, and clean up some of the lyrics. I think Perry would especially love Tantra. It is epic like Still They Ride. In my humble opinion, Perry would have made Eclipse a major hit album. I love Arnel, but even Arnel must admit Perry is magical.


Arnel pretty much DOES admit this any time he's asked about Perry.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby Eric » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:07 pm

Monker wrote:, then again with Journey returning back to the "retro sound" which they had insisted they were moving on from...from the moment Augeri was hired....then again moving on from the legacy sound with Eclipse being a guitar driven "Neal's baby" album.


THIS you're 100% dead on about. However, I choose to criticize the marketing choice to attempt to pigeon hole their sound... NOT the choice to make a great album.

I don't believe Journey has A sound. Eclipse sounds like Journey. Arrival and TBF sound like Journey. Infinity, Frontiers and Escape sound like Journey. Yet each of those albums have plenty of moments that sound nothing like each other.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:40 am

scarab wrote:What killed this CD was the very dull and predictable City of Hope and the god awful "video" for Resonate.
Love you Schon, but dont want to see you and your wife rolling on the beach.


The Resonate video was awful, but I don't think it had any impact on Eclipse sales. CD was already sinking like a stone by then.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:42 am

Monker wrote:No, it's not a rumor....it's the repeated explanation of the band, even on the BTM.

Does that mean it's the complete truth? Probably not...judging by some of the old interviews by Steve Smith - he was pissed at Perry for years afterward. There was an interview with Neal for "Late Nite" where he talked about being so pissed at Perry for the way he was auditioning drummers and how he axed people like Omar Hakim. Neal would show up to record and Perry would say, "I can see you will be good for nothing today..." and he would cut his solo in one take and then leave.

Also, if you read Steve Smith interviews, it's different playing organically and playing to the beat of a drum machine. The truth is after Journey he had to train himself to play to a drum machine a bit better to be a good studio musician, and for TBF. He absolutely hated what Perry wanted him to do for ROIR. IMO, Steve Smith (and Ross) was in the right. It's a BAND, not Steve Perry featuring the rest of Journey (ie: Journey...featuring Michael Baird and Randy Jackson. Baird and Jackson were NOT members of the band). And, they were fired during the RECORDING of ROR, not for the tour.


Who knows. And BTM, as we know, is a very mixed bag when it comes to the band's history.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby tater1977 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:51 am

scarab wrote:
tater1977 wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:
Resonate (Official Video by The Journey)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30kTck4hCLI



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyF-VleZXJQ

:lol:

The future star of that infamous video... :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3XBbMUHg0
Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby marco17 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:33 am

I don't think Eclipse was that bad. I've always felt (IMO) that the timing of DSB still being spotlighted EVERYWHERE, coupled with the Revelation/Greatest Hits redo combo, was the perfect media/PR storm...The added intrigue with Arnel's story helped, but I don't really think it would have mattered who the singer was at the time. That time period brought J back the conscience of the average fan who remembered seeing them when they were younger, and they ate up Revelation, probably moreso for the GH disc than Revelation. I know many here over the years have debated the fuzzy math with that whole ablum... Much of the hype had waned by the time Eclipse came out...and there was no greatest hits CD to catapult sales like had happened with Revelation.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby JourneyHard » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:19 am

Anything Journey does by definition is Journey's sound. I would advise against them doing a Rap Ablum, but if they did one it would be Journey!

The trick for Journey is balancing their sound between pop which most females enjoy and hard rock which most males enjoy. They need to make their next album incorpotate both without alienating the opposing taste. That is very tricky to do.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby tj » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:45 am

JourneyHard wrote:Anything Journey does by definition is Journey's sound. I would advise against them doing a Rap Ablum, but if they did one it would be Journey!

The trick for Journey is balancing their sound between pop which most females enjoy and hard rock which most males enjoy. They need to make their next album incorpotate both without alienating the opposing taste. That is very tricky to do.


To this point, Separate Ways and Baby I'm A Leaving You are both Journey. I bought ROR when it came out in 1986. I went into Sound Warehouse and asked the guy behind the counter if they had the new Journey album. He said "yeah, you mean the new Steve Perry solo album, this sure isn't Journey."

The first 3 Journey albums don't sound like the next three and each one since has had a similar evolution (no pun intended). We may not like it all (I don't), but it's all Journey.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby perryfan61 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:07 am

:lol:[/quote][/quote]
The future star of that infamous video... :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3XBbMUHg0[/quote]

I can never un-see that...... Thanks :shock: :shock: :?
The injury that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance. Steve Perry
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby tater1977 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:56 am

perryfan61 wrote::lol:
[/quote]
The future star of that infamous video... :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3XBbMUHg0[/quote]

I can never un-see that...... Thanks :shock: :shock: :?[/quote]


:lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby tater1977 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:31 am

Deen and the guys doing an acoustic set

Frontiers Rock Festival was live.

Revolution Saints

https://www.facebook.com/frontiersrockf ... 719417755/
Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:33 am

Monker wrote:
scarab wrote:Eclipse was a great and fresh CD.
Resonate was the best rocker since Sep Ways.

What killed this CD was the very dull and predictable City of Hope and the god awful "video" for Resonate.
Love you Schon, but dont want to see you and your wife rolling on the beach.


"City of Hope" was fine, so was the video. "Resonate" seems slightly over hyped and had a bad video. But, in this age, videos mean very little. What killed Eclipse was very little label support, an over-estimate of the fan base based on Revelation sales, and a fan backlash on the change of sound.


No proof of a fan backlash. The overall fans have never embraced post-Perry stuff at all.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:38 am

tater1977 wrote:Deen and the guys doing an acoustic set

Frontiers Rock Festival was live.

Revolution Saints

https://www.facebook.com/frontiersrockf ... 719417755/


Cool. Wonder why they went with acoustic set. Warm up?
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby Monker » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:49 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:
scarab wrote:Eclipse was a great and fresh CD.
Resonate was the best rocker since Sep Ways.

What killed this CD was the very dull and predictable City of Hope and the god awful "video" for Resonate.
Love you Schon, but dont want to see you and your wife rolling on the beach.


"City of Hope" was fine, so was the video. "Resonate" seems slightly over hyped and had a bad video. But, in this age, videos mean very little. What killed Eclipse was very little label support, an over-estimate of the fan base based on Revelation sales, and a fan backlash on the change of sound.


No proof of a fan backlash. The overall fans have never embraced post-Perry stuff at all.


Oh, how soon people forget that Revelation was platinum and Eclipse wasn't even gold, and Revelation was #5 on the charts for weeks. Eclipse debuted at #13 and then dropped off the charts in weeks. Eclipse sold around 100,000 copies. Eclipse had no charting singles, as far as I know while Revelation had several on the AC chart, "After All These Years" was charting for weeks. All of this despite people on this forum making prediction on when it would go platinum and how high the singles would chart and all kinds of stupid things.

Yes, can go and whine about Eclipse being a package and double counts for being platinum (and even then it sold 800,000 or so packages...completely eclipsing Eclipse). The fans embraced Revelation by any measure...and I hate saying that because I'm no fan of the album or its dated retro sound. The fans put their money down for this $12 set of CD/DVD/remake CD...and they didn't for Eclipse. The fans who came out of the woodwork to make Revelation a hit album, vanished when Eclipse was released....700,000 of them - at least.

Maybe I can't "prove" a backlash because of the change in sound...but, to say fans did not embrace any post-Perry "stuff" is not true. To go from the level of success they had with Revelation back to where they were pror, is disappointing at best.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby Monker » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:54 pm

JourneyHard wrote:Anything Journey does by definition is Journey's sound. I would advise against them doing a Rap Ablum, but if they did one it would be Journey!

The trick for Journey is balancing their sound between pop which most females enjoy and hard rock which most males enjoy. They need to make their next album incorpotate both without alienating the opposing taste. That is very tricky to do.


No. They should stop all of this going for certain sounds and audiences and just write the best songs that they can and the best music that they can and put in on an album. And, the five of them should do it together without one person's vision dictating a direction.
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Re: Deen says "No Journey"...

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:27 pm

Monker wrote:[
Oh, how soon people forget that Revelation was platinum and Eclipse wasn't even gold, and Revelation was #5 on the charts for weeks. Eclipse debuted at #13 and then dropped off the charts in weeks. Eclipse sold around 100,000 copies. Eclipse had no charting singles, as far as I know while Revelation had several on the AC chart, "After All These Years" was charting for weeks. All of this despite people on this forum making prediction on when it would go platinum and how high the singles would chart and all kinds of stupid things.

Yes, can go and whine about Eclipse being a package and double counts for being platinum (and even then it sold 800,000 or so packages...completely eclipsing Eclipse). The fans embraced Revelation by any measure...and I hate saying that because I'm no fan of the album or its dated retro sound. The fans put their money down for this $12 set of CD/DVD/remake CD...and they didn't for Eclipse. The fans who came out of the woodwork to make Revelation a hit album, vanished when Eclipse was released....700,000 of them - at least.

Maybe I can't "prove" a backlash because of the change in sound...but, to say fans did not embrace any post-Perry "stuff" is not true. To go from the level of success they had with Revelation back to where they were pror, is disappointing at best.


I have not forgotten any of that. You mention that Eclipse flopped, but conveniently ignore that all post-Perry cds of new material (Arrival, Red 13, Generations ) either disappointed or flat-out bombed. We have a precedent of the band doing consistently well when selling the hits. Not surprisingly, Revelation included a cd and a dvd of hits. You may as well argue that the Vegas 2001 DVD sold well because it had 2 Arrival tracks on it. Makes as much sense. :roll:
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