Rolie and Cain

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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby tj » Tue May 02, 2017 8:47 am

I have always been intrigued by how the lineup of YES has changed over the years. Guys in and out of the band multiple times. RIght now there are two versions touring, Anderson/Rabin/Wakeman and Howe/Downes.

I don't see Journey doing that, but could see them doing something like the YES Union tour in the early 90s. Members from every version of the band playing together. Or even better, a long term stint in Vegas where you get different versions every night:

Neal/Jon/Arnel/Ross/Smith
Neal/Gregg/Arnel/Ross/Smith
Neal/Jon/JSS/Ross/Dunbar
Neal/Gregg/Augeri/Ross/Deen
Neal/Gregg/Fleischman/Ross/Dunbar
Neal/Jon/Michael Bolton/Randy Jackson/Michael Baird
Neal/Gregg/Tickner/Ross
Neal/Jon/Ross/Smith/Perry

With the list below, the possibilities of different combinations showing up on a given night are pretty big. You could even have different guys play different parts of the show. I know a couple are out of the business and/or dead others don't get along with others, etc., but the music would still be awesome.

People who are credited and/or played in concert under the name Journey:
Lead Singers: Rolie, Fleischman, Perry, Augeri, Soto, Pineda
Guitar: Schon, Tickner, Cain
Keyboards: Rolie, Cain
Bass: Valory, Jackson
Drums: Dunbar, Smith, Londin, Baird, Castronovo

There are probably a few others that I can't think of right now, but there is a lot of talent on the list. Doing it for fun and/or the fans would be great.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Journey/Survivor » Tue May 02, 2017 8:56 am

There's some bug crawling around on my computer monitor, and I can't kill it. Any advice? :lol:


As much as I love Cain's keyboard playing and songwriting, I hate to say this, but Cain needs to go. He's holding the band back in so many ways.

Let's face it, everyone in the band is getting older, and possibly toward the end of their careers. They're running out of opportunities to record new Journey albums. If one guy is going to stubbornly hold them back, then he needs to go.
..................................................................................................................................................

Well, now that the page changed, the bug thing may not make sense?
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby perryfan61 » Tue May 02, 2017 9:32 am

Journey/Survivor wrote:There's some bug crawling around on my computer monitor, and I can't kill it. Any advice? :lol:


As much as I love Cain's keyboard playing and songwriting, I hate to say this, but Cain needs to go. He's holding the band back in so many ways.

Let's face it, everyone in the band is getting older, and possibly toward the end of their careers. They're running out of opportunities to record new Journey albums. If one guy is going to stubbornly hold them back, then he needs to go.

That up fooled me too
..................................................................................................................................................

Well, now that the page changed, the bug thing may not make sense?


That bug fooled me too!! :lol: :D :roll: :D

Jon says he is starting a new Christmas album. I think his days with the band are numbered.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby bellairepark73 » Wed May 10, 2017 3:00 pm

Maybe...just maybe...when Gregg rejoins Journey they might be do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeJx19CR-Jo
and do walks like a lady...WITH SP (to which Neal said...oh...there's no icon for praying hands)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9vROjzy9uI
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Hollywood » Thu May 11, 2017 8:03 am

tj wrote:I have always been intrigued by how the lineup of YES has changed over the years. Guys in and out of the band multiple times. RIght now there are two versions touring, Anderson/Rabin/Wakeman and Howe/Downes.


It's Howe/White/Downes.... dont forget Alan White the only Yes drummer since 1972. Plus, I do think Billy Sherwood should count for something since he's been in and out of the band for the last 27 years and Chris hand picked him.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Hollywood » Thu May 11, 2017 8:04 am

tater1977 wrote:Anyone remember why Santana and Journey guys didn't co-mingle on stage
last Sept at AT&T Park ?


Santana at that show did not include Schon or Rolie. It was the current Santana band.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby tater1977 » Thu May 11, 2017 8:25 am

Hollywood wrote:
tater1977 wrote:Anyone remember why Santana and Journey guys didn't co-mingle on stage
last Sept at AT&T Park ?


Santana at that show did not include Schon or Rolie. It was the current Santana band.


Correct and Gregg never showed up and the 2 bands never co-mingled onstage for that
performance. But do you remember why that version never happened then :?:
Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Hollywood » Thu May 11, 2017 9:26 am

tater1977 wrote:
Hollywood wrote:
tater1977 wrote:Anyone remember why Santana and Journey guys didn't co-mingle on stage
last Sept at AT&T Park ?


Santana at that show did not include Schon or Rolie. It was the current Santana band.


Correct and Gregg never showed up and the 2 bands never co-mingled onstage for that
performance. But do you remember why that version never happened then :?:


Never heard why myself, although I never went looking either. I wanted to see a Santana reunion show and thought the west coast dates with Journey would be the ones, but they weren't. I'm glad my travel didn't work out. I live in Vegas and the HOB show sold out instantly. That would have been a good one.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Monker » Fri May 12, 2017 4:37 pm

I have said the same thing about a Journey "Union" type of album. But, there are a few problems with that now.

Before Union, there were two bands: Yes, and ABWH. Essentially, ABWH sounded more like Yes than Yes did...especially with Jon Anderson sining. Although ABWH had a great album...their second album never happened. So, both bands were hurting in their own way. So, they took some recordings for the second ABWH album and combiined them with some new Yes music to create Union.

Journey is not in that situation. If Perry somehow came back and started a competing band with Journey members (Gregg, Aynsley, Randy Jackson, and maybe Josh Ramos. If that happened, and it was able to get a CD released and a tour, then there could be some type of Union situation...but I doubt Journey would care because they have been successful. Yes needed Jon Anderson to sound like Yes....Journey doesn't need Steve Perry because they have had good luck with Arnel.

Back in the day - late 90's thru early 2000's, The Storm was that second band....their two albums are as good as any Journey album. But, I doubt anything like that is possible now.

tj wrote:I have always been intrigued by how the lineup of YES has changed over the years. Guys in and out of the band multiple times. RIght now there are two versions touring, Anderson/Rabin/Wakeman and Howe/Downes.

I don't see Journey doing that, but could see them doing something like the YES Union tour in the early 90s. Members from every version of the band playing together. Or even better, a long term stint in Vegas where you get different versions every night:

Neal/Jon/Arnel/Ross/Smith
Neal/Gregg/Arnel/Ross/Smith
Neal/Jon/JSS/Ross/Dunbar
Neal/Gregg/Augeri/Ross/Deen
Neal/Gregg/Fleischman/Ross/Dunbar
Neal/Jon/Michael Bolton/Randy Jackson/Michael Baird
Neal/Gregg/Tickner/Ross
Neal/Jon/Ross/Smith/Perry

With the list below, the possibilities of different combinations showing up on a given night are pretty big. You could even have different guys play different parts of the show. I know a couple are out of the business and/or dead others don't get along with others, etc., but the music would still be awesome.

People who are credited and/or played in concert under the name Journey:
Lead Singers: Rolie, Fleischman, Perry, Augeri, Soto, Pineda
Guitar: Schon, Tickner, Cain
Keyboards: Rolie, Cain
Bass: Valory, Jackson
Drums: Dunbar, Smith, Londin, Baird, Castronovo

There are probably a few others that I can't think of right now, but there is a lot of talent on the list. Doing it for fun and/or the fans would be great.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby jestor92 » Sat May 13, 2017 2:30 pm

I've felt for awhile that Cain does more harm than good for Journey these days. I've felt going back to Soul SirkUS that he had Schons ear that it wasn't a fit. Also felt that he was the one who didn't want JSS in the band.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Marzdog » Tue May 16, 2017 9:31 am

jestor92 wrote:I've felt for awhile that Cain does more harm than good for Journey these days. I've felt going back to Soul SirkUS that he had Schons ear that it wasn't a fit. Also felt that he was the one who didn't want JSS in the band.
Yet it kept money in his pocket to say yes to having JSS finish the tour...
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue May 16, 2017 9:35 am

jestor92 wrote:I've felt for awhile that Cain does more harm than good for Journey these days. I've felt going back to Soul SirkUS that he had Schons ear that it wasn't a fit. Also felt that he was the one who didn't want JSS in the band.


Herbie also gave JSS a bad review.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby jestor92 » Wed May 17, 2017 3:28 pm

I love JSS and I think they could've written some great songs together. I don't think Jeff's voice would've held out because he sounded like he was straining to hit the high notes
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby JourneyHard » Mon May 29, 2017 4:03 am

If they could make a new album with both Rolie and Cain, it could be a cool album. In this case, 15 songs would make sense. Neal, Rolie, and Cain could come up with five songs each and have the others help polish them. I think the album would rock for the most part with Cain doing a few ballads.

Come on, guys. Get together for the fans!
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Archetype » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:07 am

I've really been disappointed in Cain lately. Cool dude from a band I've liked for 15 years turns into a "born again" type who swindles people out of their money in mega churches. I really doubt he even believes in what he's doing. He just married into it and sees a huge cash cow. Which, I mean, good for him, but he's really becoming a thorn in Journey's side. Bring Gregg Rolie back and release a new kickass album in the spirit of Evolution/Infinity- but with Steve Smith on drums. The die hard fans really win, and the casual concert goers can still get the dirty dozen with Rolie on keyboards and piano. Given the numerous different styles he's been involved with, I have no doubt that he would be up to the task of playing the dirty dozen. Better backing vocals too. There's also the great press that would be associated with bring back an original founding member.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Abitaman » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:06 am

tj wrote:I have always been intrigued by how the lineup of YES has changed over the years. Guys in and out of the band multiple times. RIght now there are two versions touring, Anderson/Rabin/Wakeman and Howe/Downes.

I don't see Journey doing that, but could see them doing something like the YES Union tour in the early 90s. Members from every version of the band playing together. Or even better, a long term stint in Vegas where you get different versions every night:

Neal/Jon/Arnel/Ross/Smith
Neal/Gregg/Arnel/Ross/Smith
Neal/Jon/JSS/Ross/Dunbar
Neal/Gregg/Augeri/Ross/Deen
Neal/Gregg/Fleischman/Ross/Dunbar
Neal/Jon/Michael Bolton/Randy Jackson/Michael Baird
Neal/Gregg/Tickner/Ross
Neal/Jon/Ross/Smith/Perry

With the list below, the possibilities of different combinations showing up on a given night are pretty big. You could even have different guys play different parts of the show. I know a couple are out of the business and/or dead others don't get along with others, etc., but the music would still be awesome.

People who are credited and/or played in concert under the name Journey:
Lead Singers: Rolie, Fleischman, Perry, Augeri, Soto, Pineda
Guitar: Schon, Tickner, Cain
Keyboards: Rolie, Cain
Bass: Valory, Jackson
Drums: Dunbar, Smith, Londin, Baird, Castronovo

There are probably a few others that I can't think of right now, but there is a lot of talent on the list. Doing it for fun and/or the fans would be great.



You forgot Kevin Chalfant, he sang a show with the band, before Perry came back and was in the studio recording a album with them in the 90's.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby HydraRed » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:47 am

Sheesh..

Image

EDIT: Photo isn't showing up on my phone, so basically someone tweeted Neal with "The rift between you and Johnathan is becoming obvious." And responds with "Ya think? It's about respect and remembering who brought you in."
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby perryfan61 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:42 am

HydraRed wrote:Sheesh..

Image

EDIT: Photo isn't showing up on my phone, so basically someone tweeted Neal with "The rift between you and Johnathan is becoming obvious." And responds with "Ya think? It's about respect and remembering who brought you in."


Next tweet was " Clue....I am not the problem".

This does not look good for JC.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby JourneyHard » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:58 am

Perhaps a new Journey album with Gregg Rolie replacing Jonathan Cain. They can call it ORIGINS.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Journey/Survivor » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:17 am

Archetype wrote:I've really been disappointed in Cain lately. Cool dude from a band I've liked for 15 years turns into a "born again" type who swindles people out of their money in mega churches. I really doubt he even believes in what he's doing. He just married into it and sees a huge cash cow. Which, I mean, good for him, but he's really becoming a thorn in Journey's side.


I agree with all of that except for the good for him part.

I've said this many times before.....
Cain is a great songwriter, a great keyboardist, and in the past seemed to be the best quality person of all of the Journey band members IMO. But Cain has been the biggest down-fall of Journey in recent years.
He doesn't want to record a new album. If he were to record a new album he'd want it to be bombarded with piano playing.
I think that Cain is a huge reason why the band rarely ever break away from the Dirty Dozen in concert?

It seems to me that all that Cain is about anymore is money, which is one of the least Christian priorities that one can have.
Cain come off as extremely greedy and stubborn anymore, again, very anti-Christian if you ask me.

I would love for Journey to have both Cain and Rolie right now, with Cain being much more flexible and willing to record a new album and play more deep cuts in concert.
But if he's not willing to do so, then it's time to replace him. At the moment he's the #1 thing holding Journey back.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Abitaman » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:56 am

Journey/Survivor wrote:
Archetype wrote:I've really been disappointed in Cain lately. Cool dude from a band I've liked for 15 years turns into a "born again" type who swindles people out of their money in mega churches. I really doubt he even believes in what he's doing. He just married into it and sees a huge cash cow. Which, I mean, good for him, but he's really becoming a thorn in Journey's side.


I agree with all of that except for the good for him part.

I've said this many times before.....
Cain is a great songwriter, a great keyboardist, and in the past seemed to be the best quality person of all of the Journey band members IMO. But Cain has been the biggest down-fall of Journey in recent years.
He doesn't want to record a new album. If he were to record a new album he'd want it to be bombarded with piano playing.
I think that Cain is a huge reason why the band rarely ever break away from the Dirty Dozen in concert?

It seems to me that all that Cain is about anymore is money, which is one of the least Christian priorities that one can have.
Cain come off as extremely greedy and stubborn anymore, again, very anti-Christian if you ask me.

I would love for Journey to have both Cain and Rolie right now, with Cain being much more flexible and willing to record a new album and play more deep cuts in concert.
But if he's not willing to do so, then it's time to replace him. At the moment he's the #1 thing holding Journey back.


Have to disagree with the born again comment. No one really knows another's heart or the whole story. I am by no means defending him, I was just thought the comment was odd.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby brywool » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:49 am

This is going to sound like I'm whizzing on Jon Cain. I'm not...

I agree with the Born Again comment especially when you put it through the filter of Cain being a Trump guy (and his wife is supposedly one of Trump's 'spiritual advisors' or something). Not that I want to get into that as I know a lot here love the Trumpster (and that's fine for YOU), but I find Trump's actions and opinions MOST un-Christian ('grab the pussy', all about money, the ban, the naked wife stuff, the completely creepy comments about his daughter, etc. etc.) and to see Jon endorsing him... I think it's too bad, and makes his reach for God look a bit odd by association. "One of these things... is not like the other..."

I DO see Jon trying to walk the talk personally as far as the God stuff, and that's fine. I also like that he threw Deen a lifeline (and I was hard on Deen at the time of his fall). But I'm just not one to want one of my heroes have every comment to the fans be about his religious leanings. That's just me. I still like him, I still think he's a brilliant songwriter. Still a hero, I just am not loving this phase of his career. It's a personal thing for him, I will choose to just not pay attention to it or wait for it to settle. Born again folks tend to get extremely vocal in the beginning with their excitement but then they calm down. It's fine for Jon, it's just not my bag. That has also seemed to help Deen and that's extremely good. Dude's too talented to be sitting out.

That being said, Jon DOES seem to be the sticking point with new music. Holy Moly- even STYX is putting out a new album (?!?) (though Journey has done more new albums than Styx in the past 20 years). Seemed like JY was the holdout there. I almost gave up on them. I TOTALLY see their point - "nobody's buying albums anymore, why put our time and money into it?" As a musician, I totally understand that sentiment. But man, to go out night after night for the last 39 years playing "Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin" and "Blue Collar Man", it's a wonder these guys haven't killed each other.

Bands COULD put out new music JUST FOR THE FANS and not worry about the general public. They could offer them for download on their site. But people would just pirate it. Man, go back to vinyl and say 'Here's our new album, you can only get it on vinyl, buy it from us'. It'd still end up online. The Internet is cool, but it's also really screwed things up for bands.

One thing though... So Jon won't create new music with Journey, but he will do solo projects? That sounds like maybe there's too much friction with the band (or maybe just Neal) and he has an easier time of it on his own. Also, think of the 'weirdness' of bringing in Greg. That must make Jon feel kinda funky. "Oh, you love me so much that you want to bring in your old guy"? I get that. But if it could be done in a non-Cain-threatening way, then that could be really interesting. I know a lot of the diehards want to hear "Saturday Night" and things like that, but the general public will not. We saw what happened with the 3-hour shows where people thought Journey was an opening band until Augeri walked out. Ugh. People have the attention spans of.... OH! Look it the Kitty!!

Neal and Jon need to work it out.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Abitaman » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:51 am

brywool wrote:This is going to sound like I'm whizzing on Jon Cain. I'm not...

I agree with the Born Again comment especially when you put it through the filter of Cain being a Trump guy (and his wife is supposedly one of Trump's 'spiritual advisors' or something). Not that I want to get into that as I know a lot here love the Trumpster (and that's fine for YOU), but I find Trump's actions and opinions MOST un-Christian ('grab the pussy', all about money, the ban, the naked wife stuff, the completely creepy comments about his daughter, etc. etc.) and to see Jon endorsing him... I think it's too bad, and makes his reach for God look a bit odd by association. "One of these things... is not like the other..."

I DO see Jon trying to walk the talk personally as far as the God stuff, and that's fine. I also like that he threw Deen a lifeline (and I was hard on Deen at the time of his fall). But I'm just not one to want one of my heroes have every comment to the fans be about his religious leanings. That's just me. I still like him, I still think he's a brilliant songwriter. Still a hero, I just am not loving this phase of his career. It's a personal thing for him, I will choose to just not pay attention to it or wait for it to settle. Born again folks tend to get extremely vocal in the beginning with their excitement but then they calm down. It's fine for Jon, it's just not my bag. That has also seemed to help Deen and that's extremely good. Dude's too talented to be sitting out.

That being said, Jon DOES seem to be the sticking point with new music. Holy Moly- even STYX is putting out a new album (?!?) (though Journey has done more new albums than Styx in the past 20 years). Seemed like JY was the holdout there. I almost gave up on them. I TOTALLY see their point - "nobody's buying albums anymore, why put our time and money into it?" As a musician, I totally understand that sentiment. But man, to go out night after night for the last 39 years playing "Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin" and "Blue Collar Man", it's a wonder these guys haven't killed each other.

Bands COULD put out new music JUST FOR THE FANS and not worry about the general public. They could offer them for download on their site. But people would just pirate it. Man, go back to vinyl and say 'Here's our new album, you can only get it on vinyl, buy it from us'. It'd still end up online. The Internet is cool, but it's also really screwed things up for bands.

One thing though... So Jon won't create new music with Journey, but he will do solo projects? That sounds like maybe there's too much friction with the band (or maybe just Neal) and he has an easier time of it on his own. Also, think of the 'weirdness' of bringing in Greg. That must make Jon feel kinda funky. "Oh, you love me so much that you want to bring in your old guy"? I get that. But if it could be done in a non-Cain-threatening way, then that could be really interesting. I know a lot of the diehards want to hear "Saturday Night" and things like that, but the general public will not. We saw what happened with the 3-hour shows where people thought Journey was an opening band until Augeri walked out. Ugh. People have the attention spans of.... OH! Look it the Kitty!!

Neal and Jon need to work it out.


Very good comment. I think Jon and Neal need to work it out. Do new music, it can be a single here and there and EP of 4 or 5 songs or a whole cd, it just doesn't have to be 14 or 15 songs. Sometimes, less is more.
As a Christian I fell that Jon could be having a guilty conscience maybe? In rock music and still singing/playing songs about sex, killing, etc.. Plus as a Christian you want to tell the work about Jesus, it is the Great Commission. But you have to know when to talk and when to be quiet. Sometimes just living your life is an example for someone, instead of hounding them over the head.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby brywool » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:07 am

Abitaman wrote:

As a Christian I fell that Jon could be having a guilty conscience maybe? In rock music and still singing/playing songs about sex, killing, etc..


Um, this is JOURNEY. Not a lotta sex or killing songs. In fact, Journey's influence has been mostly positive. I guess you could say "Line of Fire" or "Dead or Alive"... maybe.... but Journey's songs are mostly positive messages and that's a good thing.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby Abitaman » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:57 am

brywool wrote:
Abitaman wrote:

As a Christian I fell that Jon could be having a guilty conscience maybe? In rock music and still singing/playing songs about sex, killing, etc..


Um, this is JOURNEY. Not a lotta sex or killing songs. In fact, Journey's influence has been mostly positive. I guess you could say "Line of Fire" or "Dead or Alive"... maybe.... but Journey's songs are mostly positive messages and that's a good thing.


Those were 2 I was thinking of along with Mother Father and Edge of the Blade.
Any Way You Want It, Stone In Love, LTS are about sex.
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby slucero » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:21 am

Abitaman wrote:
brywool wrote:
Abitaman wrote:

As a Christian I fell that Jon could be having a guilty conscience maybe? In rock music and still singing/playing songs about sex, killing, etc..


Um, this is JOURNEY. Not a lotta sex or killing songs. In fact, Journey's influence has been mostly positive. I guess you could say "Line of Fire" or "Dead or Alive"... maybe.... but Journey's songs are mostly positive messages and that's a good thing.


Those were 2 I was thinking of along with Mother Father and Edge of the Blade.
Any Way You Want It, Stone In Love, LTS are about sex.



well it is rock n roll... and it isn't like Journey hasn't partaken in the rock n roll lifestyle....

Journey music isn't Christian music, it's rock n roll - if thematically tame compared to other rock bands..

Cain shouldn't feel he has the freedom to use Journey to leverage his Christian music just because he co-wrote hits in Journey...

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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby bellairepark73 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:52 pm

Abitaman wrote:
brywool wrote:
Abitaman wrote:

As a Christian I fell that Jon could be having a guilty conscience maybe? In rock music and still singing/playing songs about sex, killing, etc..


Um, this is JOURNEY. Not a lotta sex or killing songs. In fact, Journey's influence has been mostly positive. I guess you could say "Line of Fire" or "Dead or Alive"... maybe.... but Journey's songs are mostly positive messages and that's a good thing.


Those were 2 I was thinking of along with Mother Father and Edge of the Blade.
Any Way You Want It, Stone In Love, LTS are about sex.


How about one of the sexiest songs that they put out: about a young girl groupie: HOMEMADE LOVE. Very dirty. :lol:
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Re: Rolie and Cain

Postby JourneyHard » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:24 am

Let's look at the title of "recent" songs. State of Grace, Faith in the Heartland. Journey is halfway to being a Christian Rock Band.

(Maybe this fits better in this subject.)
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