Can I say this now?

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Can I say this now?

Postby Jeremey » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:06 pm

I wish Journey would release one more record with Steve Perry.

I haven't listened to Journey in a LOOONG time, aside from Faithfully popping up on my playlists from time to time. But I recently picked up the hi res versions of Greatest Hits and Greatest Hits 2 and tagged a handful of tunes to roll through my playlists, and tonight during a listen to an "Acoustic" tagged list, with the likes of Simon & Garfunkel, Rodrigo y Gabriela, and Joy Williams, "When I Think of You" suddenly came on and caught my attention.

I don't want to take anything away from what Steve Perry is doing now...

But it really made me sit up and wish for that energy and magic that evolved between Perry, Cain, and Schon, and what a missed opportunity it would be not to have them put a cap on their careers without something similar to Trial By Fire. In fact, I would say Trial By Fire was such a great album that came about 20 years too early.

All I can say is, I wish Perry, Schon and Cain would get together with a really great producer (Shirley did a good job on TBF but he really shortchanged Smitty's sound on this record) and make a final collaboration that would sunset their songwriting relationship with dignity and a strong musical statement. Independently, none of these guys are really great songwriters, and that's where the magic was... the ability of each of them to support each other and come up with a special kind of magic.

After this tour and after the wow factor of Steve Perry coming out of hibernation, I sure hope Schon and Perry have that cup of coffee and invite Jonathan Cain along, and then go sit in a studio with a world-class producer and give us all something special, even if it's one final swan song.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby RedWingFan » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:18 pm

Think that's kinda wishful thinking Jeremy. I'd like to see it too. But I think Schon has dumpster-fired himself so badly that Perry will never work with him again. I'm loving Perry's new tunes. Just like I was loving Arrival back when it came out. Just like then, Perry and Journey are on very different trajectories. This time it's Perry ascending.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Jeremey » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:27 pm

RedWingFan wrote:Think that's kinda wishful thinking Jeremy. I'd like to see it too. But I think Schon has dumpster-fired himself so badly that Perry will never work with him again. I'm loving Perry's new tunes. Just like I was loving Arrival back when it came out. Just like then, Perry and Journey are on very different trajectories. This time it's Perry ascending.


Well I will say this... we see the trajectory of the relationships of these guys over the years and it's objectively clear all the low points, but for these guys and their personal relationships, they have tremendous history together. From my perspective, for Perry, it wasn't the conflict with Schon and Cain that kept him out of the game, but the music business in general. For Perry, Cain and Schon represented the music business - they represented all the shit that he dealt with for years and years, but they also represented what gave him his greatest pleasure, which was creating timeless music with a connection that he couldn't find anywhere else. I think that overcoming his resistance to the music industry in general - with the release of Traces - was Perry's greatest hurdle, and after that big "rip off the band-aid" moment is past, he's far more likely to sit down at the table to capture a bit of that magic again. I may be wrong, there may be irreparable harm done and grudges that will never heal... but in my experience, the power of music tends to overcome all of that. Remember, Perry stopped his Strange Medicine tour short for the opportunity to sit down with these guys again. 20 years is a lot of water under the bridge and these guys are all looking at 70 years old now. Time is a motherfucker.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Ehwmatt » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:49 am

This would be great for all sides, Jeremey, but I think it's probably a long shot at best. It's awesome to hear SP's voice again, and for my money, he sounds quite good, at least in the studio. I couldn't have expected better. But as I've posted elsewhere, the three new tunes thus far are generally missing that "it" factor. They just don't have the extra gear to make them great (though No Erasin' is a very good song, just not great). The players on the album, whether by Perry's fiat, lack of chemistry, or whatever, just don't add much at all to the tunes to my ears. Cain and Schon -- or even one of the two -- would take these songs to another level and undoubtedly create some overall better ones together.

As for Journey, the current band is pretty much dead to me. I gave them two shots with Arnel in the flesh, and it just doesn't work for me. This may sound harsh, but I'd happily hear Perry perform Journey classics in Eb or even D tuning. I can't enjoy it with Arnel (or any other replacement); the songs don't soar. And Journey's live mix and overall energy these days repeatedly leave something to be desired.

So, I'd love to see this happen, but I have my significant doubts.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby scarab » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:27 am

Went through the 90s and most of the 2000's hoping he would do "something" with Journey, especially after they let Augeri go.
But grateful for the reunion album in 1997.

Mainly just would love to see Schon and Perry do something even its just a one off. On the latest release, were still here, with that awesome Schon like solo, yeah, thats whats missing. Music is still great but Schons guitar make Perrys vocals soar.

Still wondering if Perry will do even a limited tour. I am sure he will set out 2500 cap theaters.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Sighlence » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:36 am

Jeremey wrote:Can I say this now?


Why yes, yes you can. I am still hopeful that after all this dust settles Steve will realize that yes, time IS a motherfucker, and one final send-off is worth it. TBF is still waiting to go on tour(right in his wheelhouse), a brand new Album and whatever classics he feels he can handle? Pffff yeah! He is saying all the right things, and the timing is practically perfect. I too have/have had no interest in a Perry-less Journey and have passed up numerous opportunities. Nope, it's just not the same. At this point though, i am just grateful that he is back. Never thought i would see this day. See how it goes i 'spose.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Marabelle » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:00 pm

Well of course you can but you’re probably a bit too early.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby slucero » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:33 pm

IMHO.. I think for Perry, at this point in his life... it's not about being "great"... it's about being happy.

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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:25 am

Glad to see you posting again Jeremey. As we all know, the ball is entirely in SP's court and has been for some time. Traces is obviously a labor of love and conceived without being in the pressure cooker of record label demands. Returning to Journey means a return to alot of external factors such as, to quote Edge of the Blade, "contracts and lawyers". I don't think he has any interest in that BS. Traces is about the music and delivering it on his own terms.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby RPM » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:43 am

Jeremey, from what you have heard from Steve’s new releases do you believe range wise
He could bring enough to the table to keep it interesting if they were to try ?
The other issue would be Neal would absolutely want to tour and I don’t see that happening.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Lora » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:57 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Traces is about the music and delivering it on his own terms.


Exactly. Right to the heart of the matter.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Greg » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:52 am

RPM wrote:Jeremey, from what you have heard from Steve’s new releases do you believe range wise
He could bring enough to the table to keep it interesting if they were to try ?
The other issue would be Neal would absolutely want to tour and I don’t see that happening.


I don't remember which interview it was - could've been the Eddie Trunk interview - but Perry stated that, "He could still sing Journey songs, he'd just have to drop the key." Now, by how much? I don't know. Even Journey had to drop the key with Arnel at times. If this ever happened, maybe Deen or Arnel would still be in the band and could handle some of the really high notes that Perry can no longer hit? Kind of like how Fran Cosmo did for Brad Delp (RIP) did when they toured in the mid 2000's.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Sighlence » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:57 am

Greg wrote:I don't remember which interview it was - could've been the Eddie Trunk interview - but Perry stated that, "He could still sing Journey songs, he'd just have to drop the key." Now, by how much? I don't know. Even Journey had to drop the key with Arnel at times. If this ever happened, maybe Deen or Arnel would still be in the band and could handle some of the really high notes that Perry can no longer hit? Kind of like how Fran Cosmo did for Brad Delp (RIP) did when they toured in the mid 2000's.


http://ultimateclassicrock.com/steve-perry-quit-journey/
He also admitted that he "may have set the bar a little high at this age. I probably could [still do it], but I may have to drop a key here and there. I'm okay with that.”


Yeah, i'm ok with that too. Honestly, what Journey fan wouldn't be? His voice gets noticably cleaner and stronger with each release. The only thing we have that says he can't sing the classics anymore is a rumor from Herbie and god knows who else. The only one who knows what he is capable of right now is Perry himself.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:14 am

Sighlence wrote:His voice gets noticably cleaner and stronger with each release.


The order that music videos are released has nothing to do with anything physiological with Perry's chords. C'mon.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Sighlence » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:44 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Sighlence wrote:His voice gets noticably cleaner and stronger with each release.


The order that music videos are released has nothing to do with anything physiological with Perry's chords. C'mon.


No, it has to do with how his voice sounded when he first got back in the saddle (2015 or earlier) after a 20+ year hiatus and progressively gets cleaner and stronger with use. He said himself they went with first takes on some because most of the time they are the best, and his producer preferred the more course sound so he went with it. You don’t think the vocal chords get stronger with more use? I can here a difference in just him talking in interviews (most notably this Making of Traces vid) let alone what he sounded like with the Eels and at the HoF. Don’t know where you get “phsycological” from what i said.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby slucero » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:19 am

Sighlence wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Sighlence wrote:His voice gets noticably cleaner and stronger with each release.


The order that music videos are released has nothing to do with anything physiological with Perry's chords. C'mon.


No, it has to do with how his voice sounded when he first got back in the saddle (2015 or earlier) after a 20+ year hiatus and progressively gets cleaner and stronger with use. He said himself they went with first takes on some because most of the time they are the best, and his producer preferred the more course sound so he went with it. You don’t think the vocal chords get stronger with more use? I can here a difference in just him talking in interviews (most notably this Making of Traces vid) let alone what he sounded like with the Eels and at the HoF. Don’t know where you get “phsycological” from what i said.



I lot of what we perceive in a vocal can be due to processing during mixing. There are lots of studio tricks that can be used to change how the vocal sounds. Simply double tracking, which for a singer would mean re-singing the part on a separate track will change the perceived timbre of a vocal.

I real good example of this is Joe Elliot... listen to early live Leppard and his voice does not sound the same as the recordings... in isolation (one can find bare session tracks on youtube) his real vocal sounds waaaay different than the processed, mixed version, where a lot of the grit/rasp is processed out.

A lot of Journeys earlier vocal stuff was run back through Dolby processing to give it a certain "shine". Most people don't know this, but Perry is a pretty decent engineer. They all learned a lot from Roy Thomas Baker when they recorded Infinity and Evolution.

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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:24 am

Sighlence wrote:No, it has to do with how his voice sounded when he first got back in the saddle (2015 or earlier) after a 20+ year hiatus and progressively gets cleaner and stronger with use.


Perry didn't release anything in 2015. You said his voice gets cleaner/stronger with each "release" - not use. As for each release of a Traces single...there is no way of knowing what got recorded first or last or in-between.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Greg » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:32 am

I think all you guys make good points. The idea is probably that some of those tracks were recorded (yes, we don't know the order in which they were recorded) earlier in the process, and some were recorded a year or two later. Most certainly, if Perry had been building his voice up (think weight training), his voice is going to sound stronger on some tracks than others. Then again, as Slucero stated, some of those tracks, by design/choice, has his voice sounding a bit "grittier", because they liked that sound better.

I think the simple, non-technical, point is, with each release from this new Steve Perry album, we're able to hear a bit more of what he can still do. Even with all the Pro-Tools and the sound engineering, there's only so much you can do to clean up a voice. You still have to be able to sing. I do realize you can do quite a bit with today's technology, but knowing that, I can listen to someone like Don Dokken or David Coverdale, and even with all that audio engineering at their fingertips, they still sound very aged. Coverdale sounds OK, but much, much different than he sounded in the 80's. Dokken sounds horrible in my opinion. No high end range at all - he's just pretty much lost his vocal range. At least with Steve Perry - so far - you're hearing that he has some nice, clear, highs that make you believe he could do some Journey material justice, but he's not going to sound like he did on the record. He knows it. His fans know it. Journey fans all, know it. But, that doesn't mean he can't do those songs justice. Maybe an acoustic set for some of those tougher songs, or a "re-written" version of a song here and there. I think if Perry wanted to tour with Journey bad enough, him, Schon, and Cain could figure out how to make it work.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:37 am

Greg wrote:I think the simple, non-technical, point is, with each release from this new Steve Perry album, we're able to hear a bit more of what he can still do. Even with all the Pro-Tools and the sound engineering, there's only so much you can do to clean up a voice. You still have to be able to sing. I do realize you can do quite a bit with today's technology, but knowing that, I can listen to someone like Don Dokken or David Coverdale, and even with all that audio engineering at their fingertips, they still sound very aged. Coverdale sounds OK, but much, much different than he sounded in the 80's. Dokken sounds horrible in my opinion. No high end range at all - he's just pretty much lost his vocal range. At least with Steve Perry - so far - you're hearing that he has some nice, clear, highs that make you believe he could do some Journey material justice, but he's not going to sound like he did on the record. He knows it. His fans know it. Journey fans all, know it. But, that doesn't mean he can't do those songs justice. Maybe an acoustic set for some of those tougher songs, or a "re-written" version of a song here and there. I think if Perry wanted to tour with Journey bad enough, him, Schon, and Cain could figure out how to make it work.


Well said.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Sighlence » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:09 am

Greg wrote: Steve Perry - so far - you're hearing that he has some nice, clear, highs that make you believe he could do some Journey material justice, but he's not going to sound like he did on the record. He knows it. His fans know it. Journey fans all, know it. But, that doesn't mean he can't do those songs justice. Maybe an acoustic set for some of those tougher songs, or a "re-written" version of a song here and there. I think if Perry wanted to tour with Journey bad enough, him, Schon, and Cain could figure out how to make it work.


Spot on. Enjoying the hell out of the here and now, and hoping it all comes full circle.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby JourneyHard » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:20 am

I support Steve Perry on whatever he wants to do and whatever he doesn't want to do.

That said, I would love to see Perry back in Journey for a new album. It might be awkward as hell, but on tour Perry could do four songs at start of concert and four songs at the end and Arnel could do the the middle songs. Something like that so Perry doesn't burn out his vocals on tour.

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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Jeremey » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:58 am

Nice to come back and see some good engagement on this topic.

Just to be clear though, I didn't mean to take anything away from what Steve Perry is doing now, coming back to the music business on his own terms, etc.

Nor did I mean that I'd like to see and/or hear Steve Perry sing old Journey songs again or that he could or couldn't still do them, or re-join Journey or even do any live shows with them.

I just meant this post as it would be nice to hear that songwriting magic again between Perry, Cain, and Schon, for one more collaboration. I'm sure Steve is going to be busy for a while with this new release. But I hope that somehow we won't all miss out on one final exclamation point on their songwriting career together.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:05 pm

Jeremey wrote:Nice to come back and see some good engagement on this topic.

Just to be clear though, I didn't mean to take anything away from what Steve Perry is doing now, coming back to the music business on his own terms, etc.

Nor did I mean that I'd like to see and/or hear Steve Perry sing old Journey songs again or that he could or couldn't still do them, or re-join Journey or even do any live shows with them.

I just meant this post as it would be nice to hear that songwriting magic again between Perry, Cain, and Schon, for one more collaboration. I'm sure Steve is going to be busy for a while with this new release. But I hope that somehow we won't all miss out on one final exclamation point on their songwriting career together.


Well put, and I couldn't agree more.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Greg » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:21 am

Jeremey wrote:Nice to come back and see some good engagement on this topic.

Just to be clear though, I didn't mean to take anything away from what Steve Perry is doing now, coming back to the music business on his own terms, etc.

Nor did I mean that I'd like to see and/or hear Steve Perry sing old Journey songs again or that he could or couldn't still do them, or re-join Journey or even do any live shows with them.

I just meant this post as it would be nice to hear that songwriting magic again between Perry, Cain, and Schon, for one more collaboration. I'm sure Steve is going to be busy for a while with this new release. But I hope that somehow we won't all miss out on one final exclamation point on their songwriting career together.


If they at least did a collaboration on a song or two on Perry's next album (remember, he had around 50 song "sketches"), that would be pretty cool. Even if Cain didn't want any part of it, Schon is busting a nut to do something with Perry. Cain hasn't really said anything about Perry that I know of.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby DracIsBack » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:53 am

My god, I just wish people would let Perry sing and enjoy himself and stop worrying how much he would or wouldn't have to drop the key on the high journey songs.

The fact that he's out there with new material at all in 2018 is a good thing. Let him show it off. Yeah, Perry's incredible range in his heyday was one hallmark of his high bar sound, but it wasn't the only thing that made his voice terrific you know?
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby JourneyHard » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:49 pm

Journey could redo Eclipse with Steve Perry reworking the songs in his style a little bit. Also, Steve Smith on drums would be different. Just an idea!
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Aaron » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:21 pm

I think Steve should reform with Journey Through Time with Schon, Rolie and Castronovo. They can cover old and new, Deen can cover the high parts as needed and musical fusion could happen where new magic is created.
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Re: Can I say this now?

Postby Pacfanweb » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:21 pm

Greg wrote: At least with Steve Perry - so far - you're hearing that he has some nice, clear, highs that make you believe he could do some Journey material justice, but he's not going to sound like he did on the record. He knows it. His fans know it. Journey fans all, know it. But, that doesn't mean he can't do those songs justice. Maybe an acoustic set for some of those tougher songs, or a "re-written" version of a song here and there. I think if Perry wanted to tour with Journey bad enough, him, Schon, and Cain could figure out how to make it work.


I'm hearing what Herbie described in that interview he did with Andrew 10 years ago, talking about the TBF album: "Monotone, monotone".

Not that Perry's voice doesn't still sound good and the dude can sing great and has control, but it IS very monotonal compared to anything else he's done. I do notice that along with still enjoying the new material.
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