MR

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... urney-Bass

As posted in another thread, seems the legal drama all started when Neal went out as "Journey Through Time." The complaint refutes the charge of the coup and says the special meeting was held to protect the Journey mark from being diluted or damaged by Neal trademarking "Journey Through Time." But who is Ross or Smitty to vote against Neal going out and playing early-era Journey songs as JTT? The only reason Journey is around in any form is because of Neal and Jon. Neal is not obligated to keep Journey going just so Ross and Smith can collect an easy paycheck. Whether Ross/Smitty were using this as an opportunity to set themselves up for retirement remains to be seen. According to Cain/Schon's attorney, Valory and Smith explicitly told Cain and Schon that they wanted to take over Nightmare to extract royalties.

A couple takeaways from this. It seems to be missing the ROR timeline and what happened, agreement-wise, with Ross and Smith. But maybe that doesn't matter since new agreements were made in 94/95.

The dates of Steve Perry coming back to the fold differ a little from folklore. Strange Medicine was released mid-1994. The legend was that he fell ill toward the end of the tour, Journey was looking to move on, he then decided to come back in order to remain in Journey. Or some version of those things. The document is a little confusing on the timeline. It states that in Jan and Feb of 1994, moves were made to reform Journey as a band. It does not specifically say that it included Steve Perry, but was more about canceling the 1985 license. But by December 1994, it clearly did include him, or at least he agreed to Journey being reformed in some form. The Strange Medicine tour did not end until March of 1995.

If I am reading it right, all five members had earned equal fifths of the profits for touring the last couple years and what would have been 2020. I am actually shocked by that. I had figured Smith was being paid something, but not a fifth. I kind of assumed the same for Arnel and Ross. So that is interesting to me. I assume by profits they mean after any expenses and licensing deals, which is where Steve P, Nightmare, etc. would be paid. I don't really know this business, so maybe I am way off.

The claim alleges, I think, $50 million in estimated tour revenue for 2020, which Ross feels he is 1/5 entitled to. But as we all know, actual 2020 tour revenue will be zero.

Memorex wrote:The dates of Steve Perry coming back to the fold differ a little from folklore. Strange Medicine was released mid-1994. The legend was that he fell ill toward the end of the tour, Journey was looking to move on, he then decided to come back in order to remain in Journey. Or some version of those things.

My God, I've been arguing for DECADES that this was not true. I have said there was a meeting in 1994 that determined the lineup of Journey, and not too long after Perry canceled his tour dates. This confirms that I was right. It happened MUCH earlier than was believed.

Also, Neal and Jonathan both had solo albums in 1995 and were doing interviews. So, any interviews you heard/read from back then they ALREADY KNEW Journey was reuniting with Perry...

The document is a little confusing on the timeline. It states that in Jan and Feb of 1994, moves were made to reform Journey as a band. It does not specifically say that it included Steve Perry, but was more about canceling the 1985 license. But by December 1994, it clearly did include him, or at least he agreed to Journey being reformed in some form. The Strange Medicine tour did not end until March of 1995.

This is all correct. If you go back to 1994, there were all kinds of rumors of Journey reuniting with Chalfant as singer. THAT is what Herbie wanted. The meeting on 12/30/1994 was to sign documents. Prior to this, in November, there was an INFORMAL meeting to determine the lineup, if Perry was going to be involved. Way back then, years and years ago, Allen Craft confirmed this meeting happened...but people struggle to believe that is what happened...because, as you say, that's not the "folklore" that is commonly believed. That folklore just is NOT TRUE.

The claim alleges, I think, $50 million in estimated tour revenue for 2020, which Ross feels he is 1/5 entitled to. But as we all know, actual 2020 tour revenue will be zero.

I agree with this, too. If Journey doesn't tour, I don't see how a court can give him these damages.

This interview with Perry was done in January 1995...remember, the reunion was already signed:
http://www.journey-tribute.com/journey/ ... metal.html

Of course you know that Neal Schon, Jon Cain, Ross Valory & Steve Smith tries to put together a new Journey with vocalist Kevin Chalfant right now?

SP: I've heard the rumours.

What do you think of it?

SP: I don't know. It's up to them.

So you don't mind?

SP: I have no comment on it right now. I think it's the best way for me. They have to do what they believe they need to do.

They say you don't want to be in on it, they have to do it without you. (Perry gets upset for the only time during the interview, he raises his voice):

SP: My friend! (deep breath) I'll tell it to you very clear. I left that band after 10 years, ok? It'd been perfect for me to immediately make it as a solo-artist, but I didn't, because my reasons to quit was emotional.

They continued and did what they had to do. What they're doing now they are doing because they want to. It has nothing to do with me. To say that would be as I'd tell you 'you have to marry that girl or she'll marry someone else'.

SP: During the time I've spent looking for the passion to make this album, they've been able, had the freedom, to make every album they've wished to make. I just can't get off my solo project and make the people I've worked with disappointed. I have to give it all for this album, as with everything I did with Journey. I gave Journey everything for 10 years, doesn't that count for something?

So what you mean is that you can't see a reunion in the future?

SP: It depends on what we're doing and not doing until then, to Journey and our selves.

In other words: No hard feelings like the case with for example Black Sabbath and Ronnie James Dio, when he first left the group. If everyone involved keeps clean the extremely popular "Escape"/"Frontiers" line-up might come alive sometime in the future...

It's easy to understand that Steve Perry with great interest will watch the other guys trying to reform Journey without him, and to see the result.

To me the most unsettling bit of news is this squabble about Arnel's movie deal. That sounds like it got nasty. And good for Arnel for playing hard ball. There is seemingly not one single, solitary healthy relationship in this band right now. It really tells you something if Neal & Jon are the model of harmony.

Read all about it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11Itjy2 ... 3hK2X/view

I'm so sick of all this. I just wish they'd all go away and stop dipping the legacy of the band in a cesspool of scum and villainy.

At this point, I'm just saying "Fuck You" to all parties.

FamilyMan wrote:To me the most unsettling bit of news is this squabble about Arnel's movie deal. That sounds like it got nasty. And good for Arnel for playing hard ball.

If it wasn't for Neal, Arnel would be nothing. If the movie deal was the leverage Schon/Cain had to prevent the Ross/Smitty coup, then Arnel should have had Neal's back.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:To me the most unsettling bit of news is this squabble about Arnel's movie deal. That sounds like it got nasty. And good for Arnel for playing hard ball.

If it wasn't for Neal, Arnel would be nothing. If the movie deal was the leverage Schon/Cain had to prevent the Ross/Smitty coup, then Arnel should have had Neal's back.

Why are you so defensive of Neal? He's acting like a spoiled baby.

TageRyche wrote:I'm so sick of all this. I just wish they'd all go away and stop dipping the legacy of the band in a cesspool of scum and villainy.

At this point, I'm just saying "Fuck You" to all parties.

I think a lot of people are going to agree with that.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:To me the most unsettling bit of news is this squabble about Arnel's movie deal. That sounds like it got nasty. And good for Arnel for playing hard ball.

If it wasn't for Neal, Arnel would be nothing. If the movie deal was the leverage Schon/Cain had to prevent the Ross/Smitty coup, then Arnel should have had Neal's back.

Yeah, I wonder why AP was so adamant about doing the movie deal. Why was this so important?
And, btw, I wonder what the movie deal really is. ???


later~

Monker wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:To me the most unsettling bit of news is this squabble about Arnel's movie deal. That sounds like it got nasty. And good for Arnel for playing hard ball.

If it wasn't for Neal, Arnel would be nothing. If the movie deal was the leverage Schon/Cain had to prevent the Ross/Smitty coup, then Arnel should have had Neal's back.

Why are you so defensive of Neal? He's acting like a spoiled baby.

Because he’s the only one who wants to actually create.

Why the eff would anyone give Schon shit about “Journey The Time”. That’s atrocious

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:To me the most unsettling bit of news is this squabble about Arnel's movie deal. That sounds like it got nasty. And good for Arnel for playing hard ball.

If it wasn't for Neal, Arnel would be nothing. If the movie deal was the leverage Schon/Cain had to prevent the Ross/Smitty coup, then Arnel should have had Neal's back.

By that wisdom, you could just as easily say that Journey post-Perry owed themselves to Steve Augeri (whom I know you admire).
But the moment his voice failed him, he was out.
In this band, it’s every man for himself. They need Arnel. And he was simply reminding them.

FamilyMan wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:To me the most unsettling bit of news is this squabble about Arnel's movie deal. That sounds like it got nasty. And good for Arnel for playing hard ball.

If it wasn't for Neal, Arnel would be nothing. If the movie deal was the leverage Schon/Cain had to prevent the Ross/Smitty coup, then Arnel should have had Neal's back.

By that wisdom, you could just as easily say that Journey post-Perry owed themselves to Steve Augeri (whom I know you admire).
But the moment his voice failed him, he was out.
In this band, it’s every man for himself. They need Arnel. And he was simply reminding them.

Or, you could say that if it wasn't for Herbie that Neal would be nothing and Journey itself wouldn't exist.

Monker wrote:

Memorex wrote:The dates of Steve Perry coming back to the fold differ a little from folklore. Strange Medicine was released mid-1994. The legend was that he fell ill toward the end of the tour, Journey was looking to move on, he then decided to come back in order to remain in Journey. Or some version of those things.

My God, I've been arguing for DECADES that this was not true. I have said there was a meeting in 1994 that determined the lineup of Journey, and not too long after Perry canceled his tour dates. This confirms that I was right. It happened MUCH earlier than was believed.

I just don't know really. Going back and reading it, it could be that all the moves made in 1994 were about Herbie revoking the license, thereby putting it back solely in the hands of Nightmare so that Steve Perry could no longer control it via Elmo Partners and only have his say as a member of Nightmare. Especially when the language of the initial action in Feb is pretty negative towards Perry (which I didn't see till just a moment ago). And that could include the actions in December as well. The complaint does say that it was unanimous in December that Journey would reform, which is why I assumed Perry had already agreed to be a member. But what if it was simply about saying sure, go ahead, and he would make money off of having shares in Nightmare? But then later decided to participate. I honestly have no idea. And to be honest, I guess I don't care. It had just struck me as interesting when I first read that.

Funny how common this stuff probably is and we just don't hear much from other bands. I guess if you are around for 47 years and all the main members are still living and have a hand in it, and it's still making massive amounts of money, there are bound to be issues. I bet LRB wish their fights could have been over this kind of money. In 2020!

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Why the eff would anyone give Schon shit about “Journey The Time”. That’s atrocious

No "one" did. One of the points of what Ross is saying that NIGHTMARE felt "Journey Through Time" was an encroachment on the Journey name. It wasn't a person, or a couple people, conspiring against Neal. It was a corporation protecting its asset. Also, it isn't like that is all Neal did - create the band and tour. He was essentially acting like it was a replacement for Journey/

So, IMO, Nightmare was acting in their best interests to try to stop it.

Monker wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Why the eff would anyone give Schon shit about “Journey The Time”. That’s atrocious

No "one" did. One of the points of what Ross is saying that NIGHTMARE felt "Journey Through Time" was an encroachment on the Journey name. It wasn't a person, or a couple people, conspiring against Neal. It was a corporation protecting its asset. Also, it isn't like that is all Neal did - create the band and tour. He was essentially acting like it was a replacement for Journey/

So, IMO, Nightmare was acting in their best interests to try to stop it.

I Understand what you’re saying, but here’s how it feels to me:

The founder of the band wants to be more creative with the set lists: Eff off
So the founder of the band reunites with another original member and plays more creative setlists: No, you can’t.

I mean - no wonder he’s throwing tantrums and going nuts. My God. Seems as though a bunch of band members who have come and gone want to squeeze revenue out of a short and non-variable greatest hits set and if the founder of the band wants Journey to be Journey - continually evolve as they historically have - well we’ll stop it.

Memorex wrote:

Monker wrote:

Memorex wrote:The dates of Steve Perry coming back to the fold differ a little from folklore. Strange Medicine was released mid-1994. The legend was that he fell ill toward the end of the tour, Journey was looking to move on, he then decided to come back in order to remain in Journey. Or some version of those things.

My God, I've been arguing for DECADES that this was not true. I have said there was a meeting in 1994 that determined the lineup of Journey, and not too long after Perry canceled his tour dates. This confirms that I was right. It happened MUCH earlier than was believed.

I just don't know really. Going back and reading it, it could be that all the moves made in 1994 were about Herbie revoking the license, thereby putting it back solely in the hands of Nightmare so that Steve Perry could no longer control it via Elmo Partners and only have his say as a member of Nightmare. Especially when the language of the initial action in Feb is pretty negative towards Perry (which I didn't see till just a moment ago).

EXACTLY. Journey was together with: Neal Schon, Gregg Rolie, Kevin Chalfant, Jonathan Cain and Steve Smith

THAT is the lineup Herbie wanted to move forward with. So, Herbie ended the agreement with Elmo partners by using the clause about being an active band. This version of the band even started writing songs together. Chalfant has released at least one. It started hitting the news that this lineup was together...it was not a well kept secret. Then in November they had a meeting to decide the lineup. Steve Perry was there, Kalodner was there. Kalodner wanted the Escape lineup. Perry would only join if Herbie was no longer managing. So, Herbie, Chalfant, and Gregg were out...and Perry was in. The December meeting finalized and formalized things.

And that could include the actions in December as well. The complaint does say that it was unanimous in December that Journey would reform, which is why I assumed Perry had already agreed to be a member.

If you read the minutes from the 12/30 meeting, it's really short. It's like they met, had a vote, meeting over. That why I am saying it was just to formalize things. At that point they knew the Journey lineup...they just had to get everybody to sign on to it.

Funny how common this stuff probably is and we just don't hear much from other bands. I guess if you are around for 47 years and all the main members are still living and have a hand in it, and it's still making massive amounts of money, there are bound to be issues. I bet LRB wish their fights could have been over this kind of money. In 2020!

When all the issues with LRB start, they had already went through their reunion years earlier. Azoff was involved in that, too.
Like Journey, he wanted the original singers and as close to the most popular version who could get - and he got it. Then, one by one, members started leaving and being replaced. Eventually, all of the "original" members of the band had left: Glen Shorrock, Beeb Birtles, Graeham Goble, Derek Pellucci. That left Stephen Housden as the longest serving member. So, he assumed control of the name.

Here is where similarities start...When Birtles, Shorrock and Goble wanted to get together, they called themselves "The Voices of Littler River Band", or "The Original Little River Band". Housden started suing because he owned the rights to the LRB name. He won...they had to call themselves "Birtles Shorrock and Goble" or "BSG", and have no references to the LRB name. In fact, they had to change the cover of their live album/DVD because it had a marquee pic that read "The Original Voices of the Little River Band", They left the marquee pic but put X's over "The Little River Band "..."XXX XXXXXX XXXXX XXXX". It's pretty funny to look at....it was to spite Housden who sued them over it because it was in too big of a font or something ridiculous.

Anyway, I don't see how Neal wins this...he looks foolish, IMO.

Eric wrote:The founder of the band wants to be more creative with the set lists: Eff off
So the founder of the band reunites with another original member and plays more creative setlists: No, you can’t.

I don't think that is what Nightmare would argue. They would first point out that "Journey Through Time" is a play on the Journey name, which they own. They also point to Neal's numerous comments comparing the two bands.

I mean - no wonder he’s throwing tantrums and going nuts. My God. Seems as though a bunch of band members who have come and gone want to squeeze revenue out of a short and non-variable greatest hits set and if the founder of the band wants Journey to be Journey - continually evolve as they historically have - well we’ll stop it.

Again, I don't think it is about the set list, or individual members wanting more money...it is about starting a competing band and referencing Journey in the name.

Nobody can stop Neal from starting a band and playing whatever he wants, including all Journey songs. But, Nightmare can stop Neal from starting a "new" version of Journey, referencing the band in the new band's name, and explicitly stating that this is his way of replacing Journey. They can do that because Nightmare owns the name and they are protecting that asset.

wow ... seriously no joke! How the heck can the band come back from this !?! According to the legal briefs filed on behalf of RV, Neal and/or Jon overstepped their authorities in proclaiming that Ross and Smitty are terminated from the band. So, what's going to happen now? They stay together, go back on the road (if and whenever), pretending like they're still "brothers". That's crazy!

FamilyMan wrote:By that wisdom, you could just as easily say that Journey post-Perry owed themselves to Steve Augeri (whom I know you admire).
But the moment his voice failed him, he was out.
In this band, it’s every man for himself. They need Arnel. And he was simply reminding them.

I don't agree with this at all. Augeri is the first person to tell you that other rock tenors could have done the job. I just don't see how this is similar to what's going on now.

Monker wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Why the eff would anyone give Schon shit about “Journey The Time”. That’s atrocious

No "one" did. One of the points of what Ross is saying that NIGHTMARE felt "Journey Through Time" was an encroachment on the Journey name. It wasn't a person, or a couple people, conspiring against Neal. It was a corporation protecting its asset. Also, it isn't like that is all Neal did - create the band and tour. He was essentially acting like it was a replacement for Journey/

So, IMO, Nightmare was acting in their best interests to try to stop it.

This is not even my quote.

Arkansas wrote:
Yeah, I wonder why AP was so adamant about doing the movie deal. Why was this so important?
And, btw, I wonder what the movie deal really is. ???


later~

Crazy Rich Asians was a huge movie. If a prominent Hollywood director wanted to make a movie about your life story, wouldn't you want it to happen?

annie89509 wrote::shock: wow ... seriously no joke! How the heck can the band come back from this !?! According to the legal briefs filed on behalf of RV, Neal and/or Jon overstepped their authorities in proclaiming that Ross and Smitty are terminated from the band. So, what's going to happen now? They stay together, go back on the road (if and whenever), pretending like they're still "brothers". That's crazy!

Maybe the strife could light a fire under their asses to play with some GD energy and passion.

Monker wrote:Why are you so defensive of Neal? He's acting like a spoiled baby.

I'm defensive of the band Journey. Jonathan and Neal are the only two constants in that band that have contributed creatively in any real way. Maybe you should go create a forum to discuss your passion for the greedy and lazy shareholders of Nightmare Inc. It would be one thing for Ross and Smitty to block JTT If the actual Journey was doing something creative with them involved. Instead, their actions are to defend the status quo, maintain creative atrophy, and to undermine the leader of the band. There was no other choice but to fire them.

If the motivation for the Nightmare coup was to prevent Neal from devaluing the Journey TM, I find it odd that Jonathan would have sided with him. I would have thought Jonathan would have been the first to oppose anything that was really going to cost him $$. JTT would have only played theaters as long as Journey was still active and probably ever.

If Valory's claim regarding the '94/95' agreement is legit and he is an equal partner, why was there no mention of him in the agreement between Perry, Cain and Schon in '98....

Monker wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:To me the most unsettling bit of news is this squabble about Arnel's movie deal. That sounds like it got nasty. And good for Arnel for playing hard ball.

If it wasn't for Neal, Arnel would be nothing. If the movie deal was the leverage Schon/Cain had to prevent the Ross/Smitty coup, then Arnel should have had Neal's back.

Why are you so defensive of Neal? He's acting like a spoiled baby.

I was wondering the same thing? TNC always takes Neal's side, but the guy is far from innocent in all this. Maybe having a year off will give him time to rethink his priorities.

Maybe Journey's new album will be called "Nightmare."

perryfan61 wrote:I was wondering the same thing? TNC always takes Neal's side, but the guy is far from innocent in all this.

What's the alternative? Sticking up for greedy attorneys and shiftless hanger-ons?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Monker wrote:Why are you so defensive of Neal? He's acting like a spoiled baby.

I'm defensive of the band Journey. Jonathan and Neal are the only two constants in that band that have contributed creatively in any real way. Maybe you should go create a forum to discuss your passion for the greedy and lazy shareholders of Nightmare Inc. It would be one thing for Ross and Smitty to block JTT If the actual Journey was doing something creative with them involved. Instead, their actions are to defend the status quo, maintain creative atrophy, and to undermine the leader of the band. There was no other choice but to fire them.

Neal's lawsuit comes off like a fairy tale, and you are just repeating it.

The fact is, as you pointed out from the guy on YouTube, Ross and Steve Smith did not file the complaint against Neal regarding JTT. Nightmare did that. Firing individuals from the band will not change who has stock in Nightmare, and who is on the board, and how the corporation acts to protect their interest in Journey. Neal is simply lashing out in a vengeful way. In the end, it will get him nowhere. He can't go out and stick "Journey" in a band name and not expect consequences. In fact, it's really not even "his band", it seems to me that it is Nightmare's band. I'm sure he's very happy with that.

He needs to get a band together, go out with whoever he wants, play whatever he wants, but leave the name "Journey" alone