MR

As discussed here previously, Neal has been using the hashtag #JourneyBeyond on social media. Some thought he was just helping to promote a tribute band with the same name featuring Anthrax's singer. However, Neal has now unveiled an official logo for the project and the article below says he is also trademarking the name.

Thoughts....

Logo looks like cheap AI crap. At this late stage of the game, I think all these Journey related projects are just divisive, distracting, and overall harmful to "the mothership" (as Herbie once called it). Focus on what matters. Cain said he had a new single for the real Journey band to record. Where is it? What happened?

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/journey ... trademark/

Says it hasn’t been approved yet. Maybe someone is fighting it? At least the logo does not add to the possible “confusion” with Journey. But Neal would’ve been better off not saying or hinting anything and waiting until all the ducks were in a row…

Ironically, the episode of Married With Children that Anthrax appeared on just aired on the Cozi Network a little over an hour ago.

I hope that Schon is releasing new music.

This part was interesting, though it didn't credit where this bit came from......

The "JOURNEY BEYOND™" mark is "intended to cover the categories of musical sound recordings; downloadable musical sound recordings; series of musical sound recordings; compact discs featuring music; downloadable music files; downloadable MP3 files and MP3 recordings featuring music; musical video recordings; and pre-recorded CDs, video tapes, laser disks and DVDs featuring music."

Ok, that screams AI if ever read it (video tapes and laser disks?), but hypothetically if this could be a reason for the new logo then I'm pretty psyched about the ramifications. Neal might finally be trying to get the band into the 21st century! I've been saying forever that Neal should be studying Metallica's inner workings since they are pretty much THE STANDARD IMO of how to run a successful band that has an archive of material.

The next important question is (again, just hypothesizing about AI article filler), is how far back into Sony's vault are they allowed to go? Because we are gonna be needing those old recordings to make this worth a damn for the fans. They don't vary up their modern setlists anywhere near well enough to offer stuff like "every show is for sale to download." I'd love for a kind of live material umbrella area online to exist to dive into the real archive and buy whatever shows you want. As mentioned in the "new music" thread though, there are a lot of people that will need to sign off on any projects going forward. I'd hope that for the fans sake all parties would at least entertain the idea if one came to pass. An online catalog for all the old shows would be a goldmine for everyone involved without even having to play a note.

Loneman1 wrote:This part was interesting, though it didn't credit where this bit came from......

The "JOURNEY BEYOND™" mark is "intended to cover the categories of musical sound recordings; downloadable musical sound recordings; series of musical sound recordings; compact discs featuring music; downloadable music files; downloadable MP3 files and MP3 recordings featuring music; musical video recordings; and pre-recorded CDs, video tapes, laser disks and DVDs featuring music."

Fairly comprehensive list, although it seems a little 'yesterday'. I wonder how streaming and streaming services fit into it all.

later~

Loneman1 wrote:The next important question is (again, just hypothesizing about AI article filler), is how far back into Sony's vault are they allowed to go? Because we are gonna be needing those old recordings to make this worth a damn for the fans.

Nothing I read made me think this would involve releasing archived recordings. This new entity wouldn't have any legal authority to tap into any of that. This is just so Neal can sell Journey Beyond merchandise.

jrnyman28 wrote:Says it hasn’t been approved yet. Maybe someone is fighting it? At least the logo does not add to the possible “confusion” with Journey. But Neal would’ve been better off not saying or hinting anything and waiting until all the ducks were in a row…

I disagree about the logo. Unless Nightmare does not hold the trademark, and Neal does, it could be a problem simply because "Journey" is in a larger font compared to "Beyond". It sounds ridiculous but Little River Band sued "Birtles, Shorrock, Goble" (BSG) for their DVD having "Original voices of THE LITTLE RIVER BAND" with "The Little River Band" in a larger font...they had to change their cover graphics...and instead of The Little River Band, they put "XXX XXXXXX XXXXX XXXX" in a sorta protest against the stupidity of it all.

Loneman1 wrote:This part was interesting, though it didn't credit where this bit came from......

The "JOURNEY BEYOND™" mark is "intended to cover the categories of musical sound recordings; downloadable musical sound recordings; series of musical sound recordings; compact discs featuring music; downloadable music files; downloadable MP3 files and MP3 recordings featuring music; musical video recordings; and pre-recorded CDs, video tapes, laser disks and DVDs featuring music."

Ok, that screams AI if ever read it (video tapes and laser disks?), but hypothetically if this could be a reason for the new logo then I'm pretty psyched about the ramifications. Neal might finally be trying to get the band into the 21st century! I've been saying forever that Neal should be studying Metallica's inner workings since they are pretty much THE STANDARD IMO of how to run a successful band that has an archive of material.

Nah, it's just copy/paste. I remember looking at this years ago. From what I remember, Styx trademark has a HUGE description...but it reads the same. No need to have AI generate that a simple copy/paste can do.

The next important question is (again, just hypothesizing about AI article filler), is how far back into Sony's vault are they allowed to go? Because we are gonna be needing those old recordings to make this worth a damn for the fans. They don't vary up their modern setlists anywhere near well enough to offer stuff like "every show is for sale to download." I'd love for a kind of live material umbrella area online to exist to dive into the real archive and buy whatever shows you want. As mentioned in the "new music" thread though, there are a lot of people that will need to sign off on any projects going forward. I'd hope that for the fans sake all parties would at least entertain the idea if one came to pass. An online catalog for all the old shows would be a goldmine for everyone involved without even having to play a note.

If you are talking about existing Journey studio recordings, no they can not release those...only Sony can do that. If you mean rerecording and covering them on a CD...yes, they can do that. If Kevin Chalfant can release a CD of rerecorded Journey songs, this band can as well. A performance video is different and they would need to get rights to release it, including Steve Perry's sign off....so a Journey Beyond concert DVD would need permissions....a Journey Beyond covers CD, or a concert CD, would be fine with no permission needed. An old unreleased Journey concert would need everybody permission...not sure if only Sony could release it...I suppose it depends on who has rights to the recording. At least that is how I understand things.

Neal better have a good trademark lawyer looking at all of this...or he is going to end up in court again

Arkansas wrote:

Loneman1 wrote:This part was interesting, though it didn't credit where this bit came from......

The "JOURNEY BEYOND™" mark is "intended to cover the categories of musical sound recordings; downloadable musical sound recordings; series of musical sound recordings; compact discs featuring music; downloadable music files; downloadable MP3 files and MP3 recordings featuring music; musical video recordings; and pre-recorded CDs, video tapes, laser disks and DVDs featuring music."

Fairly comprehensive list, although it seems a little 'yesterday'. I wonder how streaming and streaming services fit into it all.

later~

That's a good question....but I assume the "Trademark" is for protecting the selling of hard copies of their music and video. Streaming, like Spotify for example, automagically "pays" the artist for each listen.

Monker wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:Says it hasn’t been approved yet. Maybe someone is fighting it? At least the logo does not add to the possible “confusion” with Journey. But Neal would’ve been better off not saying or hinting anything and waiting until all the ducks were in a row…

I disagree about the logo. Unless Nightmare does not hold the trademark, and Neal does, it could be a problem simply because "Journey" is in a larger font compared to "Beyond". It sounds ridiculous but Little River Band sued "Birtles, Shorrock, Goble" (BSG) for their DVD having "Original voices of THE LITTLE RIVER BAND" with "The Little River Band" in a larger font...they had to change their cover graphics...and instead of The Little River Band, they put "XXX XXXXXX XXXXX XXXX" in a sorta protest against the stupidity of it all.

Yeah, I wasn’t thinking about size, I was referring more to the font and image no longer being as reminiscent of Journey items.

Monker wrote: A performance video is different and they would need to get rights to release it, including Steve Perry's sign off....so a Journey Beyond concert DVD would need permissions....a Journey Beyond covers CD, or a concert CD, would be fine with no permission needed. An old unreleased Journey concert would need everybody permission...not sure if only Sony could release it...I suppose it depends on who has rights to the recording. At least that is how I understand things.

Neal better have a good trademark lawyer looking at all of this...or he is going to end up in court again

I thought video only required the permissions of those who appear on the video. So a classic Journey concert video like the ROR Tour would need all band members to approve. But a current lineup or Journey Beyond lineup concert video would only need those member’s permission?

I really wish Neal would wait until he has all his ducks in a row before hinting or announcing anything. Sure, he drums up publicity and hype and discussion. But it could still fall through. And then “we” get let down. Or we could be completely wrong…

jrnyman28 wrote:

Monker wrote: A performance video is different and they would need to get rights to release it, including Steve Perry's sign off....so a Journey Beyond concert DVD would need permissions....a Journey Beyond covers CD, or a concert CD, would be fine with no permission needed. An old unreleased Journey concert would need everybody permission...not sure if only Sony could release it...I suppose it depends on who has rights to the recording. At least that is how I understand things.

Neal better have a good trademark lawyer looking at all of this...or he is going to end up in court again

I thought video only required the permissions of those who appear on the video. So a classic Journey concert video like the ROR Tour would need all band members to approve. But a current lineup or Journey Beyond lineup concert video would only need those member’s permission?

I thought this for a long time, too. But, video is different. It requires what is called "Synch Rights". To release a video of Journey Beyond performing classic songs on video they would need to acquire synch rights from the various copyright holders. Usually this is a publisher...but I think it was said that Perry held on to his copyrights, and the rest of the band sold theirs. An example: this is the reason why Styx' "One With Everything" DVD does NOT include any Dennis DeYoung songs....BUT the "One With Everything" CD does. They would have needed to get a synch rights license from Dennis and at that time, a few years after the lawsuit and breakup, I doubt that was going to happen.

What I think you are talking about above is if somebody, probably Sony, tried to release an old Journey concert on video. Then, they need permission of everybody on the video....because a person has the right to control how their images are used. Not sure if they would also need synch rights in this scenario, probably, but I don't know.

Like I said, Neal better have a good lawyer looking at all this. But, I think a long time ago it was said that Lady M has a lot of experience in trademark stuff so he's probably fine.

This just comes off as so half baked. I get that the guy gets bored when he's not touring. But having M sit around and design cheap looking AI logo's and calling up renta-lawyers to start legal paperwork isn't it.

Onestepper wrote:This just comes off as so half baked. I get that the guy gets bored when he's not touring. But having M sit around and design cheap looking AI logo's and calling up renta-lawyers to start legal paperwork isn't it.

To me, it seems like Neal wants complete creative control over "Journey". He does not want someone like Jonathan to have to agree to anything. He doesn't want a trademark holder like Nightmare to be in control of the trademark. So, he does these projects like JTT or Journey Beyond so he can do whatever he wants...until he crosses a line and gets taken to court.

That's why I feel Jonathan should just quit and Nightmare should license Neal to do "Journey featuring Neal Schon", or something similar. Jonathan could just do his Christian music and be happy with his final years in life. Neal can do whatever he wants with "Journey featuring Neal Schon". The rest of the past band members and Nightmare can wash their hands of the situation and still get $'s from the license and whatever copyrights and royalties they get. The "Journey" legacy stays as it is right now. And, the fans can still get some type of Journey fix, if they still want it. To me, it seems everybody wins.

Monker wrote:That's why I feel Jonathan should just quit and Nightmare should license Neal to do "Journey featuring Neal Schon", or something similar. Jonathan could just do his Christian music and be happy with his final years in life. Neal can do whatever he wants with "Journey featuring Neal Schon". The rest of the past band members and Nightmare can wash their hands of the situation and still get $'s from the license and whatever copyrights and royalties they get. The "Journey" legacy stays as it is right now. And, the fans can still get some type of Journey fix, if they still want it. To me, it seems everybody wins.

Speaking for myself, as just one humble fan, I am not interested in Jonathan quitting. It's barely Journey as it is. With Azoff gone, it's pretty apparent that Jonathan is the sole remaining bulwark against complete dysfunctional chaos (note: I am talking about business matters - not JC's political/religious views or his wife). Neal makes big promises but seemingly can't deliver/execute on anything. In hindsight, I wish Smith and Ross had been successful in becoming president and secretary.

at this point I get excited with any sort of movement within Journey or Journey-adjacent.

If we get an album / few songs of classic Journey sounding music then that could be fun. Maybe it’s silly even being half optimistic at this point. Obviously Freedom wasn’t great, but it did have a few good songs on it but I hope Schon is working with producers who he listens to

Monker wrote:

Loneman1 wrote:The next important question is (again, just hypothesizing about AI article filler), is how far back into Sony's vault are they allowed to go? Because we are gonna be needing those old recordings to make this worth a damn for the fans. They don't vary up their modern setlists anywhere near well enough to offer stuff like "every show is for sale to download." I'd love for a kind of live material umbrella area online to exist to dive into the real archive and buy whatever shows you want. As mentioned in the "new music" thread though, there are a lot of people that will need to sign off on any projects going forward. I'd hope that for the fans sake all parties would at least entertain the idea if one came to pass. An online catalog for all the old shows would be a goldmine for everyone involved without even having to play a note.

If you are talking about existing Journey studio recordings, no they can not release those...only Sony can do that. If you mean rerecording and covering them on a CD...yes, they can do that. If Kevin Chalfant can release a CD of rerecorded Journey songs, this band can as well. A performance video is different and they would need to get rights to release it, including Steve Perry's sign off....so a Journey Beyond concert DVD would need permissions....a Journey Beyond covers CD, or a concert CD, would be fine with no permission needed. An old unreleased Journey concert would need everybody permission...not sure if only Sony could release it...I suppose it depends on who has rights to the recording. At least that is how I understand things.

Neal better have a good trademark lawyer looking at all of this...or he is going to end up in court again

Yeah I was mostly talking about getting together with Sony on a collaboration to get some use out of those old live recordings in a modern fashion. Metallica has their "LiveMetallica.com" site that specializes in selling MP3/FLAC shows from their current tours as well as their vast catalog. Its crazy to think EVERY show Journey has done would be available, but some pretty good ones from each tour would be fairly lucrative to all involved I'd imagine since they'd be removing the overhead cost of the physical CD from the mix. With that money on the table with no effort needed from the band members other than a signature I think everyone would be into bringing those shows to the masses digitally, even if they don't all get along at the moment. Hell if Perry wanted to he could even sit in and remaster the shows chosen himself, he's done it a few times before with the right motivation.

Everything is complete speculation though at this point, but I would love to see them do something like this perhaps through an avenue like this "Journey Beyond." Unfortunately Sony would need to play a big part since they have all the footage/audio from at least '82-'87 according to one of Herbie's last interviews.