Hear Deen Sing (it actually works this time)!!!!

[Tornado_Jackson]

UPDATE: I have now taken the links down. Email me if you want to hear them. Some over zealous Perrypeople have seemingly taken offense at my attempts of spreading free concert recordings to the fans.
Before she reports the links or in someway gets me or the server in trouble, I am taking them down.



Email me if u want the links of where to download the amazing Deen singing.

[perryfaithful]

[quote="Tornado_Jackson"]Hear Deen the drummer sing!


At perryville??

[arden]

These are illegal bootleg recordings and have already been shut down once. Perryville of all places should know better.

[Tornado_Jackson]

It's not illegal.
You are not paying for them.
There is no transaction of funds for an unlicensed product happening here.
This is what fans do. Spread concert bootlegs. Share music.

If you don't get them here, you can get them on SoulSeek, Kazaa, Morpheus, AudioGalaxy etc etc etc etc.

[arden]

The initial recording of them was illegal. Since they are being offered for download, they can be burned to disc and sold.

I believe that Perry also has some legal arrangement forbidding the re recording by the current lineup of any songs previously recorded by him. This would be a violation of that making it illegal on two counts.

Perryville would be wise to remove themselves from this whole operation.

It's not illegal.
You are not paying for them.
There is no transaction of funds for an unlicensed product happening here.
This is what fans do. Spread concert bootlegs. Share music.

If you don't get them here, you can get them on SoulSeek, Kazaa, Morpheus, AudioGalaxy etc etc etc etc.

[arden]

They already tried this at BT last week and were shut down. Now you are putting Andrew in the middle by advertising illegal boots on his site.

The "server" is very well aware that what she is doing is illegal.

UPDATE: I have now taken the links down. Email me if you want to hear them. Some over zealous Perrypeople have seemingly taken offense at my attempts of spreading free concert recordings to the fans.
Before she reports the links or in someway gets me or the server in trouble, I am taking them down.



Email me if u want the links of where to download the amazing Deen singing.

[perryfaithful]

[quote="arden"]

"The "server" is very well aware that what she is doing is illegal"

My my my........

Legal concerns aside (but important), I was wondering if this could really be? Perryville, of all places....a place ORIGINALLY started with such fanfare to honor all that was Steve Perry actually offering bootlegs of DEEN singing songs originally recorded by Steve Perry. Ah....what the H$#% just happened?? Tell me it ain't true!

[Tornado_Jackson]

Get a life.

Swapping, trading, sharing rare music files is an integral part of being a melodic rock fan in this cyber age. Do you know how many people I have met via this very website that i now actively trade hard to find music with? I'm sorry your love for Steve Perry blinds you to the fact that alot of people take part in this. If you feel it's wrong, then by all means, don't take part in it. Nobody is forcing you. however, don't ruin it for everyone else. Live Journey music is in sparse supply. Alot of fans want to hear these songs and want to hear them live.
Contrary to what you believe, alot of fans just want to share music.
I have never sold anything or tried to make a profit. I swear.

I am not trying to offend you. But trading music is very common place amongst melodic rock fans. Nothing you say will stop me from partaking in it. In fact, as we speak I am uploading the 1998 Journey japan show to a fellow Journey fan.

If Andrew or a representative from Perry's mangement wishes to reprimand me, then so be it.
In the meantime, don't take it upon yourself to play "cyber patrol man" and attempt to dictate other fans actions. It is up to them and no one else whether or not they wish to hear their favorite band in all their live glory.

[perryfaithful]

[quote="Tornado_Jackson"]
Before she reports the links or in someway gets me or the server in trouble, I am taking them down"


Oh heck...copied those right up!!!!

[arden]

"Swapping, trading, sharing rare music files is an integral part of being a melodic rock fan in this cyber age. "

It is still an illegal bootleg recording and that is why this very download you are advertising was shut down by the official site just a few days ago. The band makes no profit from bootlegs.

"A lot of fans want to hear these songs and want to hear them live."

Then they should go to the concerts and pay the price of admission.

"Nothing you say will stop me from partaking in it. In fact, as we speak I am uploading the 1998 Journey japan show to a fellow Journey fan."

It isn't me you will answer to.

"If Andrew or a representative from Perry's mangement wishes to reprimand me, then so be it."

I'm sure they will, and you and Perryville should do whatever you feel is in your best interest.

[Tornado_Jackson]

you and Perryville should do whatever you feel is in your best interest.

I respect & admire you for staying true to your moral convictions and am glad we can agree to disagree on this matter.


To everyone else; keep those emails a coming!! These MP3's sound great and are goin fast!!!

[arden]

"I respect & admire you for staying true to your moral convictions and am glad we can agree to disagree on this matter."


Thank you, but I believe that there may be more involved here than "moral convictions".

The rerecording of classic songs with the current lineup in violation of an agreement between Perry and Journey could open up some legal issues for the band and Perryville. I can live with that. Have a nice day.

[Monker]

Do you realize how absolutely GREEDY this sounds? There is no money being made or lost from this....except maybe the attorney fees Journey pays.

If Journey wants to go after those people selling $50 boots of concerts, or removing them from their webspace and forum, I'm all for that. But, this just borders on over-kill and is a bit ridiculous.

It really makes me wonder if the guys of South Park read these forums. If Journey spends THIS amount of time and effort worrying about people posting a song or two, when do they have time to worry about putting on their best show, or writing the best songs they can for their next album. That's what it is supposed to be about and why they are musiciians...not protecting their profit margins and bottom line.

It's all a bit silly...especialy when fans and moderators start fighting the battle for the band.

"Swapping, trading, sharing rare music files is an integral part of being a melodic rock fan in this cyber age. "

It is still an illegal bootleg recording and that is why this very download you are advertising was shut down by the official site just a few days ago. The band makes no profit from bootlegs.

"A lot of fans want to hear these songs and want to hear them live."

Then they should go to the concerts and pay the price of admission.

"Nothing you say will stop me from partaking in it. In fact, as we speak I am uploading the 1998 Journey japan show to a fellow Journey fan."

It isn't me you will answer to.

"If Andrew or a representative from Perry's mangement wishes to reprimand me, then so be it."

I'm sure they will, and you and Perryville should do whatever you feel is in your best interest.

[arden]

The bigger issue is the violation of legal agreements and the ramifications for all parties concerned, not whether anyone is making any money or not.

These same links were removed from the official site just a few days ago only to have Perryville and TJ reopen the issue here.

All parties are now making an informed decision, and, as I said before, if those decisions bring legal issues down on the band...or on Perryville...I can live with that.

Good Night.

Do you realize how absolutely GREEDY this sounds? There is no money being made or lost from this....except maybe the attorney fees Journey pays.

If Journey wants to go after those people selling $50 boots of concerts, or removing them from their webspace and forum, I'm all for that. But, this just borders on over-kill and is a bit ridiculous.

It really makes me wonder if the guys of South Park read these forums. If Journey spends THIS amount of time and effort worrying about people posting a song or two, when do they have time to worry about putting on their best show, or writing the best songs they can for their next album. That's what it is supposed to be about and why they are musiciians...not protecting their profit margins and bottom line.

It's all a bit silly...especialy when fans and moderators start fighting the battle for the band.

"Swapping, trading, sharing rare music files is an integral part of being a melodic rock fan in this cyber age. "

It is still an illegal bootleg recording and that is why this very download you are advertising was shut down by the official site just a few days ago. The band makes no profit from bootlegs.

"A lot of fans want to hear these songs and want to hear them live."

Then they should go to the concerts and pay the price of admission.

"Nothing you say will stop me from partaking in it. In fact, as we speak I am uploading the 1998 Journey japan show to a fellow Journey fan."

It isn't me you will answer to.

"If Andrew or a representative from Perry's mangement wishes to reprimand me, then so be it."

I'm sure they will, and you and Perryville should do whatever you feel is in your best interest.

[Monker]

The bigger issue is the violation of legal agreements and the ramifications for all parties concerned, not whether anyone is making any money or not.

It seems to me that YOU were saying, "the band makes no profit from bootlegs". It seems to me YOU were saying, "Then they should go to the concerts and pay the price of admission." If that isn't about "money", what is it? Please make up your mind.

All parties are now making an informed decision, and, as I said before, if those decisions bring legal issues down on the band...or on Perryville...I can live with that.

What difference does it make what you can live with and what you can't? What makes your opinion more important then mine or anybody elses?

It's a sad thing when a band, OR a former lead singer, needs the eyes and ears of others to bring down the law on the people who are fans, and do buy the albums, and do buy the concert tickets, and DO support their careers.

This is just a case of fans enjoying the music. I suppose ending that is really what Steve Perry, Journey, their lawyers, and their Big Brother type fans want?

[arden]

" What makes your opinion more important then mine or anybody elses?"

In the end, it won't be my opinion...or yours...that matters.

[Monker]

" What makes your opinion more important then mine or anybody elses?"

In the end, it won't be my opinion...or yours...that matters.

Correct. In the end, it is the collective opinion of the fans that allow Journey, and every other rock band, to afford to tour and record.

If Journey alienates them by taking them to court over something so insignificant as uploading a couple songs to their webspace, then I dono't believe they deserve the privilage of having me as a fan....and I bet there would be many others who would agree to that. What a fiasco that would be, taking a fan to court over such an insignificant thing.

[Abitaman]

BAck last year, I tried to sell a Journey boot on ebay, stupid me. Journey had the item removed from ebay, and emailed me and said that it was not offical release, and futher action would be taken if I put this item back on ebay. Ebay sent me the same message saying I would be kicked off ebay if this happened again. Journey had a link to go to if I thought this was in error. So I went, since I bought this cd on ebay to begin with. What they told me was....If it is not an offical release approved by Journey and Steve Perry, it can NOT be sold. BUT they knew that Journey fans were selling and trading concerts, and unreleased music out there. They have the power to stop anything SOLD. But trading was beyound their reach, though they do not approve it, they would "accept" it
for lack of a better word.
So, I have a lot of Boots, any one interested, STYX, JOURNEY, send P.M. and I will be in touch-ERIC

[perryfaithful]

If Journey alienates.........

AND they have

[Argus]

don't folks know and respect copyright laws anymore?

http://www.riaa.com/issues/copyright/laws.asp

These laws are just that Laws The artists did not write these laws but they do support them. Are we a lawless society these days? Is morality out the window? Seems pretty cut and dry. No spin here, just the facts.

[perryfaithful]

Hey Ace! Good to see you! Mind if I just lay it out here and save some time?

"The Federal Anti-Bootleg Statute {18 USC 2319A} prohibits the unauthorized recording, manufacture, distribution, or trafficking in sound recordings or videos of artists' live musical performances. Violators can be punished with up to 5 years in prison and $250,000 in fines.

Two important legal concepts, especially pertaining to the Internet, should be kept in mind—contributory infringement and vicarious liability.

Contributory infringement may be found where a person, with knowledge of the infringing activity, induces, causes, or materially contributes to the infringing conduct of another. For example, a link site operator may be liable for contributory infringement by knowingly linking to infringing files.

Vicarious liability may be imposed where an entity or person has the right and ability to control the activities of the direct infringer and also receives a financial benefit from the infringing activities. Vicarious liability may be imposed even if the entity is unaware of the infringing activities. In the case of a site retransmitting infringing programs, providing direct access to infringing works may show a right and ability to control the activities of the direct infringer, and receiving revenue from banner ads or e-commerce on the site may be evidence of a financial benefit.



For additional information, see the US Copyright Office"

[Argus]

Hey PF *waves*

[Monker]

don't folks know and respect copyright laws anymore?

http://www.riaa.com/issues/copyright/laws.asp

These laws are just that Laws The artists did not write these laws but they do support them. Are we a lawless society these days? Is morality out the window? Seems pretty cut and dry. No spin here, just the facts.

I understand exactly what you are saying. But, we are not talking about selling copies of shows for the latest tour for $20 each, or posting MP3's on Journey's webspace, or earning any money whatsoever from Journey's music, performances, or image, or likeness, or name.

I say it is very petty and greedy to take a 'fan' to court for putting up some recording of a couple live songs with the intention of expressing his enthusiasm for the band and their music. I also think this 'Big Brother' mentality of some fans who go about LOOKING for these type of activities is COUNTER PRODUCTIVE. Are Journey fans nothing more then a group of people who look out for their favorite band's cashflow and protect their savings? Why would anybody WANT to be a member of that club? It's supposed to be about the music, not the dollars it generates.

This entire thing is silly and has been taken to silly extremes since Napster blew up. The 'artists' (they should be called 'businessmen', cuz they seem to care more about the $'s then the art itself) who are fighting against their own fans are doing a disservice TO their fans and to THEMSELVES. What kind of fan is going to care about the music from a band who threatens lawsuites AGAINST OTHER FANS every time a recording is used in a way they have not 'approved'. These bands are swimming upstream in a raging river...and all the Big Brother fans are there alongside them. It's not going to work. If people REALLY want a copy of these songs, I'm sure they could get them. They did it before Napster even existed and I am sure it could be done today...with a LOT less effort.

These type of actions push fans away. It kills any enthusiasm people have for the music. It makes people feel they are pushing the boundaries of the law by being a fan and being enthused for the music.

Instead of worrying about these insignificant issues, Journey and their fans should be worried about what happens to the band after this tour ends, not how many people get to hear Dean sing on a MP3 boot of a live show.

[Argus]

This isn't about PR .. it's about the law. Ebay has policies that support the existing laws for ethical and legal reasons. This isn't about law suits leveled at fans [cite one case Monker where any band but Metallica has done this]. This is cut and dry Copyright violation talk. Either it is legal or it isn't period.

[arden]

The biggest irony in the case of this particular bootleg is that the kid responsible for recording the bootleg and creating the file and the woman at Perryville hosting it on her server are the two complaining the loudest about bootlegs on ebay in this thread at BT.

http://www.journeymusic.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/022122.html

[OldJourney]

The biggest irony in the case of this particular bootleg is that the kid responsible for recording the bootleg and creating the file and the woman at Perryville hosting it on her server are the two complaining the loudest about bootlegs on ebay in this thread at BT.

http://www.journeymusic.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/022122.html

You are correct arden. And whoa is me! Turns out the kid you refer to is a college student. Don't college students study anymore?

I agree ace. This is pure and simple......It's illegal.

Arrogance... is one step away from prison.

[Monker]

The biggest irony in the case of this particular bootleg is that the kid responsible for recording the bootleg and creating the file and the woman at Perryville hosting it on her server are the two complaining the loudest about bootlegs on ebay in this thread at BT.

http://www.journeymusic.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/022122.html

You are correct arden. And whoa is me! Turns out the kid you refer to is a college student. Don't college students study anymore?

I agree ace. This is pure and simple......It's illegal.

Arrogance... is one step away from prison.

What is arrogant is fans feeling the moral superiority to act in Journey's behalf and tell other fans to do such and such or face the consequences. What is arrogant is fans feeling they have more of a blessing from Journey because Journey has asked them to act in their behalf. What is arrogant is Journey and/or Steve Perry thinking they can tell others what to do in their own webspace.

[Argus]

The biggest irony in the case of this particular bootleg is that the kid responsible for recording the bootleg and creating the file and the woman at Perryville hosting it on her server are the two complaining the loudest about bootlegs on ebay in this thread at BT.

http://www.journeymusic.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/022122.html

You are correct arden. And whoa is me! Turns out the kid you refer to is a college student. Don't college students study anymore?

I agree ace. This is pure and simple......It's illegal.

Arrogance... is one step away from prison.

What is arrogant is fans feeling the moral superiority to act in Journey's behalf and tell other fans to do such and such or face the consequences. What is arrogant is fans feeling they have more of a blessing from Journey because Journey has asked them to act in their behalf. What is arrogant is Journey and/or Steve Perry thinking they can tell others what to do in their own webspace.

Arrogant is thinking that Monker knows what Journey has or has not asked fans to do. Ebay only shuts down auctions if the owner of the copyright has authorized the agent to do so in their name. Did Monker know that?

[arden]

What is arrogant is when parties sign legal agreements not to rerecord previously recorded songs, and then violate...or turn a blind eye while others violate it.

[Monker]

Arrogant is thinking that Monker knows what Journey has or has not asked fans to do.

No, but it's not very wise to assume that I have no reason for saying such a thing. CJ, a moderator at BT, in a post on BT specificaly said that she was only doing as the band asked when she scans EBay for 'ilegal' auctions. It also seems to me that such actions are encouraged and are done in a "this is what the band wants" frame of mind.

Ebay only shuts down auctions if the owner of the copyright has authorized the agent to do so in their name. Did Monker know that?

Monker didn't say EBay should not close down ilegal sales. Monker is arguing that fans should not play Big Brother and sic authorities on other fans. Monker is saying that neither, Journey, Steve Perry, or other fans should try so hard to force people to do Journey's will on a fan web page which none of the above has any direct control over...such as Perryville, or this site, or any other. It only makes all involved look foolish.