President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Monker]

SOCIALITE WHO BROUGHT DOWN PETRAEUS DINED AT WHITE HOUSE THREE TIMES THIS YEAR...

Petraeus Says CIA's Talking Points Were Edited to Play Down Terrorism...

Knew Immediately Al Qaeda-Linked Group Responsible for Benghazi...
... ELEMENT REMOVED FROM SUSAN RICE'S TALKING POINTS

Well, obviously, Clinton has visited the White House at least three times.

[slucero]

History repeats itself...

This will end up just like Iran Contra... where everyone convicted gets vacated sentences or Presidential pardons..

That could be possible. However, if the true facts of how this situation was handled it could open up the eyes of the public at how Obama deals and responds to events like this. It could show a weakness from inexperience he has with such matters. If so, hopefully from the pressure of this being exposed he won't make this type of mistake again. Will see.

You mean, kinda like how Bush deals with things on his own soil, like Katrina? That kinda thing? Just curious. You clenched assed Republicans grasp at anything. Shut the fuck up and let the man govern. Oh, and by the way, tell your clenched assed congress the same thing.

What both of you are failing to realize is that Iran-Contra should have done that...

Iran-contra happened on Reagan's watch, with him eventually taking "full responsibility for any actions he was unaware of".... which of course he would do,once he was properly shielded fron harm... it's also why (after he was properly shielded from harm), he appointed a commission to investigate it... which of course also exonerated him of wrong-doing...

the result:

• Fourteen Reagan administration officials were indicted,
• Then Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger was indicted
• Eleven convictions resulted, some of which were vacated on appeal.

The rest of those indicted or convicted were all pardoned in the final days of the presidency of George H. W. Bush, who had been vice-president at the time of the affair.

If Iran-Contra, where 14 (including the Sec of Defense!) were indicted didn't "open up the eyes of the public", then no logical, reasoning person would conclude that this latest incident of government hypocrisy will.

All the more proof that both parties are as corrupt as their believers are gullible.

This is political theater.. just like West Wing was a TV show.

[Memorex]

Big long post I just wrote and deleted because, frankly, who gives a shit?

Yeah, Why be concerned about the deaths of those who gave their lives to serve and protect our country. No big deal. This is just one of the reasons that our government gets away with the lies and deceit surrounding such matters. At times I feel that we don't deserve people putting themselves at risk so that we can be protected and prosper.

I'm with you. My point is we can scream from the rooftops and people who are on one team won't care. You can't do anything here to make someone care because it's more important that their team be protected than be held accountable for lying flat out to the American public. And next time, when it's a Republican lying, all we'll here from one side is how horrible it is and the other side will act like it's no big deal. So why bother?

Again this isnt about teams or who cares or not. We dont know all the facts , but most people (not all) who are all of a sudden so interested in the death of the four Americans , are mainly interested because of the huge attention it got due to its timing. Do you remember any of the terrorist attacks on our embassies between 1980-2010 ? Do you know how many people were killed? How security was handled? Who was responsible ? What went wrong?

I am upset for the reasoning behind it all. And yes, most facts are out there and I've ignored the big stuff here because I am not sure if it is true. For example, that this facility may have been a place for extraordinary rendition or that arms were being transferred there.

There are a few issues for me that I think are a big deal because the world is much more volatile than before. Number one, you don't keep security down in order to pretend like things are better. You should always put the security in place that is required or stay out of there. Number two, when attacked, you bring the full force of the united states military if you have to. Either during or just after. Number three, you don't go out and lie tot he American public to save face (though it happens on all sides all the time).

If you cannot admit that the Obama administration intentionally lied and misled the public in order to downplay the fact that things are still dangerous out there, then there is no reaching you. Here it is a simple fact and people have trouble admitting it. Guess what, Obama is not coming to your house for dinner. You are in all likelihood never going to meet him and if you did, he would never know you were Beshad or Monker or whoever from MelodicRock.com's forums. No one is going to hurt you just for the fact that you admitted seeing clearly that these things are true. So support your guy all day long, vote for the guy you feel will do the best job, but at least be honest and able to admit when the guy made a significant mistake.

I don't like being lied to from either side. I don't like being treated like I am just supposed to go along with everything. I'm the one on here who said several times that I had no idea who the hell Romney was and couldn't get an understanding of his beliefs. It's ok to be real and that seems to have stopped. Obama screwed this up and he flat out lied. Hilary did as well and that bothers me almost as much. So maybe if we all just called them on it and stopped acting like it's ok, politicians might not do it so much.

Anyway, again, it's not going to change. Americans are becoming more entrenched in their hatred of each other and the politicians are laughing all the way to the bank.

[conversationpc]

You mean, kinda like how Bush deals with things on his own soil, like Katrina? That kinda thing? Just curious. You clenched assed Republicans grasp at anything. Shut the fuck up and let the man govern. Oh, and by the way, tell your clenched assed congress the same thing.

Rick, I'm always surprised when you act like an idiot like this. I usually make you out to be a moderate Democrat. Anyway, I don't remember you castigating fellow Democrats who acted the same way towards George Bush while he was President. I sure wish I had caught on to how crappy a President he was before the latter part of his term but it sure seems like a lot of Dems also aren't catching on to the utter crap pile that is the Obama Presidency.

[Monker]

You mean, kinda like how Bush deals with things on his own soil, like Katrina? That kinda thing? Just curious. You clenched assed Republicans grasp at anything. Shut the fuck up and let the man govern. Oh, and by the way, tell your clenched assed congress the same thing.

Rick, I'm always surprised when you act like an idiot like this. I usually make you out to be a moderate Democrat. Anyway, I don't remember you castigating fellow Democrats who acted the same way towards George Bush while he was President. I sure wish I had caught on to how crappy a President he was before the latter part of his term but it sure seems like a lot of Dems also aren't catching on to the utter crap pile that is the Obama Presidency.

There is a huge difference between a failing President taking a thriving economy to the brink of depression, and a President failing his promise of taking an economy on the brink of depression back to being thriving. There is also a huge difference between a President taking a relatively peaceful society to being fearful that every foreigner is a potential terrors with a dirty bomb in his shoe...and starting two unending wars...and a President promising to end those wars, but not doing it as quickly as people would like.

But, to Rick's point...Republicans have been pushing 'failure' almost as soon as Obama took office. It was their #1 priority to ensure Obama only had one term. Republicans in congress REFUSED to work with him on EVERY issue....for this very reason - to ensure Obama would not be reelected. And, they failed. But, obviously they think it's a winning policy to continue to be obstructive and assholes. If Republicans in congress continue to act as asinine as some of their supporters do, it will be an interesting mid-term election.

[Boomchild]

What makes this so much worse thanall the attacks on our embassies during Bush's term ?

It's a big deal because it appears that the Obama administration has not been straight forward with the public about it.

So, it is a big deal because it "appears" it should be....not because it IS.

What appears to me is people spend way too much time with conspiracy theories and making this way more complicated then: The White House and the State Department had a disconnect and they both fucked in dealing with the American people.

Most of the rest of what you said has conflicting stories in the media. People believe what they WANT to believe. Frankly, most of the people who are even paying attention are anti-Obama partisans anyway.

IMO, the entire thing has become a media fiasco and waste of time

FOUR AMERICAN government representatives DEAD and it is not clear what exactly happened to the extent that an investigation committee is opened up because it seems the people involved can't get the story straight. One of the DEAD an ambassador who in effect represents the President abroad. We have a President that would rather go on with a campaign party instead of putting his focus on an attack of a U.S. government installation located in a "hot bed" area of unrest and terrorist attacks. Who publicly states that the safety of U.S. citizens at home and abroad is one of his top priorities. Obama tells the public that the attacks were due to a pathic anti-islamic Youtube video which has now been shown to be a blatant lie as to the cause. I would hope that if one of the victims of this event was one of your family members you wouldn't think questioning the situation and asking for details and answers as to why there is conflicting information isn't a waste a of time. Whether someone is an Obama supporter or not they are U.S. citizens who's taxes pay the salaries of those involved as well as for the infrastructure that gives them the ability to do what they do. Last time I checked this is a country with a Constitution that states the we the citizens tell the government what it can and cannot do. Which give the citizens the right to question what it is doing and what exactly happened when things go wrong. Not to mention that we have heard nothing as to what they are doing to get to the bottom of who is responsible for the attacks.

FOUR AMERICAN government represntative DEAD, but the only reason it is a big concern of yours is because of the media and how it was all blown way out of proportion ONLY because it happened right before election. This wouldnt have made such huge news if it would have happened a year ago, or a year from now.
Much like all those government represenatives that were killed during various attacks prior to Obama's presidency.
This isnt blaming Bush for "things going wrong". Its poitning out the facts to you that when so many other americans died during his term, it never saw the light of the news in the same way the Benghazi attacks did.
We have been targeted and attacked by terrorists for decades now. And we have been told lies by our government about many of these terrorist attacks. But the Benghazi is getting so much attention (mainly by Obama-haters) only and only because it happened around election time.

I can't speak for others commenting on this but, the media is NOT the reason this is a big concern to me. It's that Americans that are serving our country are dead and from accounts of the situation it appears those in charge of protecting their lives messed up and instead of telling the truth as to their failure to do so they are trying to cover it up. I never said that this has only happened with this administration or the deaths of other Americans serving and protecting our country is any less tragic or does not deserve the same kind of attention. There all tragic and the government has the responsibility to tell it's citizens the truth as to what occurred. This applies to ALL administrations past, present and future. Regardless of their party affiliation. Your exactly right that we have been told lies by our government with regards to issues like this many times before. The problem is we keep letting them do it. This is a two way street both political parties are guilty of things such as this.

You are still going by what the media is feeding you and no facts about what happened in benghazi. You can do so much to prevent attacks from terrorists, but when youre in a country like Libya or Iraq or Syria etc, you are at risk . We can not turn back time to bring them back to life but we sure can try to work more on security to try to minimize the casualties. Its basically the same as one of these crazy people going in a school or mall and start shooting people. We can go back and try to figure out why it happened and how it could have been avoided, but at the end of the day , there are no real answers.

Maybe they are trying to cover something up. But we dont know that till we have all the facts. The only reason people are so much more interested in this case IS because of the timing of it.

There are facts that have been released about this situation. Obama went on for weeks citing that it was due to a anti-Islamic video and now according to government released information it wasn't. Also, according to the government released information military support available in that region was requested and denied. The CIA operatives that were close to the embassy asked for permission to assist and were told to stand down but they went anyway. Obama went on with his campaign schedule while this was going instead of focusing on the situation. This is not like the media is just talking about it without the government responding to it with answers and releasing information on what happened. Don;t tell me why I am interested in this issue. I haven't even really focused on it's timing with the election.

[Boomchild]

Big long post I just wrote and deleted because, frankly, who gives a shit?

Yeah, Why be concerned about the deaths of those who gave their lives to serve and protect our country. No big deal. This is just one of the reasons that our government gets away with the lies and deceit surrounding such matters. At times I feel that we don't deserve people putting themselves at risk so that we can be protected and prosper.

I'm with you. My point is we can scream from the rooftops and people who are on one team won't care. You can't do anything here to make someone care because it's more important that their team be protected than be held accountable for lying flat out to the American public. And next time, when it's a Republican lying, all we'll here from one side is how horrible it is and the other side will act like it's no big deal. So why bother?

I se what your saying. However, I've bothered out of the respect for those that died and the support the friends and families of the victims. They need our support and to do what we can to try and open peoples eyes. True, it can be very difficult to do so but if our founding fathers would have given up when it appeared that they were in a no win situation this country would exist.

[Boomchild]

Big long post I just wrote and deleted because, frankly, who gives a shit?

Yeah, Why be concerned about the deaths of those who gave their lives to serve and protect our country. No big deal. This is just one of the reasons that our government gets away with the lies and deceit surrounding such matters. At times I feel that we don't deserve people putting themselves at risk so that we can be protected and prosper.

I'm with you. My point is we can scream from the rooftops and people who are on one team won't care. You can't do anything here to make someone care because it's more important that their team be protected than be held accountable for lying flat out to the American public. And next time, when it's a Republican lying, all we'll here from one side is how horrible it is and the other side will act like it's no big deal. So why bother?

Again this isnt about teams or who cares or not. We dont know all the facts , but most people (not all) who are all of a sudden so interested in the death of the four Americans , are mainly interested because of the huge attention it got due to its timing. Do you remember any of the terrorist attacks on our embassies between 1980-2010 ? Do you know how many people were killed? How security was handled? Who was responsible ? What went wrong?

The point is that they were just as tragic and deserved the same amount of attention. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Boomchild]

History repeats itself...

This will end up just like Iran Contra... where everyone convicted gets vacated sentences or Presidential pardons..

That could be possible. However, if the true facts of how this situation was handled it could open up the eyes of the public at how Obama deals and responds to events like this. It could show a weakness from inexperience he has with such matters. If so, hopefully from the pressure of this being exposed he won't make this type of mistake again. Will see.

You mean, kinda like how Bush deals with things on his own soil, like Katrina? That kinda thing? Just curious. You clenched assed Republicans grasp at anything. Shut the fuck up and let the man govern. Oh, and by the way, tell your clenched assed congress the same thing.

Yeah, that kind of thing. Where did I say that I was a Republican??? Where did I say anything supportive of the Bush Administration? You assume too much. I guess that's the standard weapon in the Obama supporter arsenal, "When all else fails, mention Bush". LOL Sure, it's only Republicans that are critical of Obama and his policies and actions. That's a realistic viewpoint. People get their panties in a bunch and start spouting 4 letter words when you question Obama, "Mr. Hope and Change", "The Messiah" that's going to save us all and give everyone presents like Santa Claus. Would it be more appropriate to say BarackoClaus? Sorry but, the cracks have already begun to show in Obama's handy work. Oh well... back to a positive mind set, YES WE CAN CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN, YES WE CAN CAN! HOPE AND CHANGE CHANGE, HOPE AND CHANGE CHANGE, HOPE AND CHANGE CHANGE, HOPE AND CHANGE CHANGE, HOPE AND CHANGE CHANGE, HOPE AND CHANGE CHANGE, HOPE AND CHANGE CHANGE, HOPE AND CHANGE CHANGE, HOPE AND CHANGE CHANGE, HOPE AND CHANGE CHANGE! OBAMA IS GONNA DO IT, OBAMA IS GONNA Do IT, OBAMA IS GONNA DO IT, OBAMA IS GONNA DO IT, OBAMA IS GONNA DO IT, OBAMA IS GONNA CHANGE THE WORLD! Feel better now???

Wow, a psychotic episode from a anti-Obama person...how Limbaugh of you.

Why thank you!!

[Boomchild]

What makes this so much worse thanall the attacks on our embassies during Bush's term ?

It's a big deal because it appears that the Obama administration has not been straight forward with the public about it.

So, it is a big deal because it "appears" it should be....not because it IS.

What appears to me is people spend way too much time with conspiracy theories and making this way more complicated then: The White House and the State Department had a disconnect and they both fucked in dealing with the American people.

Most of the rest of what you said has conflicting stories in the media. People believe what they WANT to believe. Frankly, most of the people who are even paying attention are anti-Obama partisans anyway.

IMO, the entire thing has become a media fiasco and waste of time

FOUR AMERICAN government representatives DEAD and it is not clear what exactly happened to the extent that an investigation committee is opened up because it seems the people involved can't get the story straight. One of the DEAD an ambassador who in effect represents the President abroad. We have a President that would rather go on with a campaign party instead of putting his focus on an attack of a U.S. government installation located in a "hot bed" area of unrest and terrorist attacks. Who publicly states that the safety of U.S. citizens at home and abroad is one of his top priorities. Obama tells the public that the attacks were due to a pathic anti-islamic Youtube video which has now been shown to be a blatant lie as to the cause. I would hope that if one of the victims of this event was one of your family members you wouldn't think questioning the situation and asking for details and answers as to why there is conflicting information isn't a waste a of time. Whether someone is an Obama supporter or not they are U.S. citizens who's taxes pay the salaries of those involved as well as for the infrastructure that gives them the ability to do what they do. Last time I checked this is a country with a Constitution that states the we the citizens tell the government what it can and cannot do. Which give the citizens the right to question what it is doing and what exactly happened when things go wrong. Not to mention that we have heard nothing as to what they are doing to get to the bottom of who is responsible for the attacks.

Blah, blah, blah....go call Sean Hannity.

This was blown out of proportion. I said that months ago. Nobody cares except those with an anti-Obama agenda, or conservative talk shows and fake news shows that need ratings.

Yeah terrorism and how our government leaders handles it is sooooooo overblown. Hell, with all the people dead what's a few more? That twin towers thing, big deal, New York's got plenty of other tall buildings with plenty of people in them.

[Boomchild]

All the more proof that both parties are as corrupt as their believers are gullible.

That's exactly right and I would not argue differently. That's the problem with this country and the state it is in. More and more every day I feel that were starting to see the finial chapter in what was a great country to live in and be proud of it.

[steveo777]

All the more proof that both parties are as corrupt as their believers are gullible.

That's exactly right and I would not argue differently. That's the problem with this country and the state it is in. More and more every day I feel that were starting to see the finial chapter in what was a great country to live in and be proud of it.

This election drove a wedge between my family and me. Both were claiming that the other side were liars. I think both of us were right. Maybe we (family) should just forgive each other and move on, knowing that all of us were a bit right.

[Rick]

All the more proof that both parties are as corrupt as their believers are gullible.

That's exactly right and I would not argue differently. That's the problem with this country and the state it is in. More and more every day I feel that were starting to see the finial chapter in what was a great country to live in and be proud of it.

This election drove a wedge between my family and me. Both were claiming that the other side were liars. I think both of us were right. Maybe we (family) should just forgive each other and move on, knowing that all of us were a bit right.

Certainly. Don't let politics tear you apart. Religion tore mine apart when I was a kid, and that didn't solve a damn thing.

[steveo777]

All the more proof that both parties are as corrupt as their believers are gullible.

That's exactly right and I would not argue differently. That's the problem with this country and the state it is in. More and more every day I feel that were starting to see the finial chapter in what was a great country to live in and be proud of it.

This election drove a wedge between my family and me. Both were claiming that the other side were liars. I think both of us were right. Maybe we (family) should just forgive each other and move on, knowing that all of us were a bit right.

Certainly. Don't let politics tear you apart. Religion tore mine apart when I was a kid, and that didn't solve a damn thing.

The democrats in my family went fucking extreme. So did the republicans. Only 3 of us died, so it's all good.

Seriously, I hear ya.

[Lula]

woohoo! 4 more years!!

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

All the more proof that both parties are as corrupt as their believers are gullible.

That's exactly right and I would not argue differently. That's the problem with this country and the state it is in. More and more every day I feel that were starting to see the finial chapter in what was a great country to live in and be proud of it.

This election drove a wedge between my family and me. Both were claiming that the other side were liars. I think both of us were right. Maybe we (family) should just forgive each other and move on, knowing that all of us were a bit right.

Certainly. Don't let politics tear you apart. Religion tore mine apart when I was a kid, and that didn't solve a damn thing.

The democrats in my family went fucking extreme. So did the republicans. Only 3 of us died, so it's all good.

Seriously, I hear ya.

My great grandmothers grandfather (I cant count that many greats) died of a massive heart attack on election night November 1912 he was so angry with the election of Wilson and Taft's defeat. What good did it do the family. Not a think. What did it do for his memory hes just remembered as the guy who lost it when Taft did.
And think about the mess that that my great granmothers grandmother had to clean up after he had the heart attack and lost control of his bowels. Dont get too worked up about election results

[conversationpc]

There is a huge difference between a failing President taking a thriving economy to the brink of depression, and a President failing his promise of taking an economy on the brink of depression back to being thriving. There is also a huge difference between a President taking a relatively peaceful society to being fearful that every foreigner is a potential terrors with a dirty bomb in his shoe...and starting two unending wars...and a President promising to end those wars, but not doing it as quickly as people would like.

Laughable...The economic crash we experienced would've been just as bad, perhaps worse, had a Democrat been in office instead of Bush. Which party was in the Presidential office had NO effect whatsoever.

Besides that, Obama has gotten us involved in more military conflicts on his watch, so it's not like he's any less a war monger than his predecessor, so he gets no pass whatsoever on that front. He gets no credit for getting us out of Iraq as that war was already winding down prior to his taking office. For that matter, Obama was against the troop surge while he was a Senator and that policy enabled the Bush administration to ramp down that war anyway, so Obama wouldn't have been able to get ANY credit for it at all if it hadn't been for Bush pushing for it in the first place.

But, to Rick's point...Republicans have been pushing 'failure' almost as soon as Obama took office. It was their #1 priority to ensure Obama only had one term. Republicans in congress REFUSED to work with him on EVERY issue....for this very reason - to ensure Obama would not be reelected. And, they failed. But, obviously they think it's a winning policy to continue to be obstructive and assholes. If Republicans in congress continue to act as asinine as some of their supporters do, it will be an interesting mid-term election.

Spare me the sanctimony. The Democrats didn't have any sense of bipartisanship while Bush was in office, either, and I don't remember you bemoaning that fact. Regardless, it is the President's responsibility to foster cooperation and Obama's tone in that regard was piss poor compared to even Bush. When you belittle John McCain in a bipartisan meeting before the press, saying that "We're not campaigning anymore, John", it's pretty obvious you have no desire to lead on bipartisanship.

[Monker]

Laughable...The economic crash we experienced would've been just as bad, perhaps worse, had a Democrat been in office instead of Bush. Which party was in the Presidential office had NO effect whatsoever.

You were comparing "crappy" presidents...not how good you are at rewriting history. The facts are the facts...this country was a hell of a lot worse off when W left office then when he entered. I would agree that "things could be better", but taking things as they are today and comparing them to four years ago ends up with a plus for Obama - and that is part of the reason he was reelected, IMO.

Besides that, Obama has gotten us involved in more military conflicts on his watch

But, not endless wars costing trillions of dollars. W could have done the same in Iraq - and kept a rival to Iran in the region...but he chose to try to oust a dictator and rebuild a nation. Despite what Republicans think, Obama did it right in Libya and Egypt - in the long run.

He gets no credit for getting us out of Iraq as that war was already winding down prior to his taking office.

"winding down" but Republicans wanted us to stay in there, even if the war was over. So, I disagree...Obama did the right thing by getting us completely out - especially since that is what Iraq WANTED. I have no doubt that if McCain were elected, or W had 4 more yrs, we would still have ground troops in Iraq. It's the neo-con way.

Spare me the sanctimony. The Democrats didn't have any sense of bipartisanship while Bush was in office, either

bullshit. How many times did Democrats vote "for" the war? Democrats voted for both "No Child Left Behind" and the various tax cuts.

NO Republicans voted for Health Care - despite Obama REPEATEDLY asking for compromise. Republicans REFUSE to compromise of the budget and taxes.

The bottom line is Republicans have put forth a concentrated effort to not allow ANY Obama legislation to pass. You are incredibly naive if you can not see how Republicans have run congress compared to Democrats with Bush.

[Andrew]

Certainly. Don't let politics tear you apart. Religion tore mine apart when I was a kid, and that didn't solve a damn thing.

Agree on both counts!

Move to Australia - the majority don't give a shit about either!

[Rick]

Certainly. Don't let politics tear you apart. Religion tore mine apart when I was a kid, and that didn't solve a damn thing.

Agree on both counts!

Move to Australia - the majority don't give a shit about either!

I have a friend in town from Sydney. He makes a great case for moving down there. It sounds nice and everything, but when I saw this picture, maybe not. That's an Olive Python with a Wallaby. Look how long that snake is. Holy crap.

click for full size

[conversationpc]

...but taking things as they are today and comparing them to four years ago ends up with a plus for Obama - and that is part of the reason he was reelected, IMO.

That's just the problem. Things aren't better off now than they were four years ago. The only reason unemployment's lower is because the labor force isn't as large. Some of you Dems were correct during the latter part of the Bush administration when you said that the economy wasn't as good as it appeared, before the crash really hit. You were right then...I'm right now. Things aren't as good as they appear and I don't even think they appear good. The economy's grown slower each year and real unemployment hasn't come down much at all. This country's still hurting and it's going to hurt some more under Obama's leadership.

bullshit. How many times did Democrats vote "for" the war? Democrats voted for both "No Child Left Behind" and the various tax cuts.

NO Republicans voted for Health Care - despite Obama REPEATEDLY asking for compromise. Republicans REFUSE to compromise of the budget and taxes.

The bottom line is Republicans have put forth a concentrated effort to not allow ANY Obama legislation to pass. You are incredibly naive if you can not see how Republicans have run congress compared to Democrats with Bush.

Obama had no more compulsion to compromise than the Republicans you mention here. He's easily been the most divisive President in our history and not because the Republicans have refused to work with them but because of his rhetoric from the time he took office until now. Obama's a charlatan just like George Bush was before him. Claims of grandiose plans to "reach across the isle" were nothing more than platitudes with real meaning to no one. That anyone believes either party wants to get along with the other is beyond me. I agree with Republicans far more than Democrats but I don't trust either one to do what they say because they're both corrupt to the core. That includes Obama, continuing the corruption started by Bush before him and taking it yet to another degree. You lemmings have taken the bait and gotten reeled in far more than you claim to admit.

[Boomchild]

I would agree that "things could be better", but taking things as they are today and comparing them to four years ago ends up with a plus for Obama - and that is part of the reason he was reelected, IMO.

So, unemployment still at record highs,more people on government assistance and food stamps then ever before, didn't produce those "shovel ready" jobs he campaigned on, huge amounts of money down the drain given to now bankrupt "green energy" projects. Still heading toward the "fiscal cliff" even faster now because of Obama's spending money the government doesn't have. Businesses reducing their work force to compensate for the costs associated with a mandatory health care program. That does not seem like positive results to me. People voted for Obama b\c they are concerned about the possibility of losing their jobs b\c of the stagnant economy and feel they may need the government support programs that Obama supports, rather then elect someone else that would more then likely eliminate or reduce those programs.

NO Republicans voted for Health Care - despite Obama REPEATEDLY asking for compromise.

And when the Republicans did submit what changes they would have liked to see he refused all of them. People are trying to paint Obama as a President willing to compromise but actually when you take a look at his actual actions he doesn't budge. Both sides are guilty of this type of posturing, which is part of the problem.

The bottom line is Republicans have put forth a concentrated effort to not allow ANY Obama legislation to pass.

You mean like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reed a Democrat, said he would block everything he could if Romney was elected? Pot meet kettle.

[conversationpc]

And when the Republicans did submit what changes they would have liked to see he refused all of them.

Republicans in Congress offered, what, like three or four alternative plans? All of which were killed by the likes of Harry Reid.

You mean like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reed a Democrat, said he would block everything he could if Romney was elected? Pot meet kettle.

Reid is the worst. I thought no one could be worse than Tom Daschle but Reid, who used to be a reasonable Congressman, takes the cake now.

[Memorex]

I'm surprised people are still arguing here. The election is over and the people have spoken. Here's the really cool part about all of this. I had my call yesterday with HR about Open Enrollment, etc. My premiums are going up again, but only another $50 a month, the biggest jump since I've started. We also lost a few benefits and of course the FSA is cut in half. So cool.

But the really cool thing is now it's pretty clear we can finally raise taxes on the rich, because they can afford it, and that should really help things turn around. I think the projected additional income from raising taxes is about 80 billion. Yes folks, billion with a 'B'. That's a lot of dough! And in the hands of the United States Federal Government it is going to do great things. I think we can all put aside the fact that our problems actually begin with a 'T', as in Trillions, but hey - can't solve it all overnight.

So let's all rejoice that we are doing great!

[conversationpc]

I'm surprised people are still arguing here. The election is over and the people have spoken. Here's the really cool part about all of this. I had my call yesterday with HR about Open Enrollment, etc. My premiums are going up again, but only another $50 a month, the biggest jump since I've started. We also lost a few benefits and of course the FSA is cut in half. So cool.

But the really cool thing is now it's pretty clear we can finally raise taxes on the rich, because they can afford it, and that should really help things turn around. I think the projected additional income from raising taxes is about 80 billion. Yes folks, billion with a 'B'. That's a lot of dough! And in the hands of the United States Federal Government it is going to do great things. I think we can all put aside the fact that our problems actually begin with a 'T', as in Trillions, but hey - can't solve it all overnight.

So let's all rejoice that we are doing great!

Yep, it's wonderful ain't it?

My wife and I are both losing $2500 next year thanks to Obama's wonderful Obamacare's limits on FSAs. Of course, I won't be getting a $5000 raise, so I'll be contributing to the declining income numbers.

[Memorex]

I look at that Hostess thing and think WTF? I took a 10% paycut this year and that's that. No promised 3% increase next year and 2% each year thereafter. Just hey - times are tough and in order to keep as much staff as possible, everyone gets a cut. That's just how it is. 18,000 people out of work and on the government rolls sure sounds a lot worse than an 8% paycut.

[Memorex]

It gets better every day!

Leahy's rewritten bill would allow more than 22 agencies -- including the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Communications Commission -- to access Americans' e-mail, Google Docs files, Facebook wall posts, and Twitter direct messages without a search warrant. It also would give the FBI and Homeland Security more authority, in some circumstances, to gain full access to Internet accounts without notifying either the owner or a judge.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57552225-38/senate-bill-rewrite-lets-feds-read-your-e-mail-without-warrants/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title

This is the same as walking into my house and reading personal letters I have written without permission. I can't believe the insanity that is occurring.

[The Sushi Hunter]

It gets better every day!

Leahy's rewritten bill would allow more than 22 agencies -- including the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Communications Commission -- to access Americans' e-mail, Google Docs files, Facebook wall posts, and Twitter direct messages without a search warrant. It also would give the FBI and Homeland Security more authority, in some circumstances, to gain full access to Internet accounts without notifying either the owner or a judge.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57552225-38/senate-bill-rewrite-lets-feds-read-your-e-mail-without-warrants/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title

This is the same as walking into my house and reading personal letters I have written without permission. I can't believe the insanity that is occurring.

Well the difference is, personal letters written in your house have not been transmitted through various companies equipment and telecommunications systems. When you signed up for the Google Account, Facebook Account, etc, did you read the fine print when you "aggreed to the terms" or did you just click on it and forget it? Sort of like when an employee uses the work computer to do personal things. It's the company's equipment and they can and DO look at everything employees do on the internet at work. Wonder how some people get caught doing crimes? Because they go on line and talk about it or even show an elevated interest in specifics about a crime.

Anything and everything you do on line becomes the property of the carrier/provider. And that's where the government comes in. The government then can gather that information through the carrier/provider. Remove the carreir/provider and the government has no way of getting your information.

[The_Noble_Cause]

He's easily been the most divisive President in our history...

Laughable statement. Did Obama employ rhetoric like Truman or FDR and call his opposition "blood suckers"? I don't think so...
You guys are so used to pussyified, dickless Dukakis-style Democrats, that you don’t know what to do when one actually fights back.
Karl Rove’s multi-billion dollar hate machine didn’t work on Obama like it did on John Kerry. Now that the majority of the US population can see right through the GOP’s lies, the party is being forced to soul search and (Gasp! Imagine this!) actually propose solutions to the nation’s problems.

Monker is correct. From Day One, Obama had this naive notion that he could get along with the GOP. Because of this, so much of the stimulus was loaded up with tax breaks.
Let's not forget, the House GOP had their own infrastructure stimulus ready to go if McCain was elected. Of course, as soon as Obama won, stimulus became a dirty word and a form of communism. The GOP holds the IQ of the American electorate in the absolutely lowest regard. Fortunately, while people are stupid, they are not nearly as stupid as the GOP thinks. In ten years time, people will look back on Obama as a market-oriented, aisle-crossing, centrist, just like Bill Clinton - who was also slurred as a pinko, communist, Bolshevik, and every other McCarthyite expletive under the sun.

[slucero]

It gets better every day!

Leahy's rewritten bill would allow more than 22 agencies -- including the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Communications Commission -- to access Americans' e-mail, Google Docs files, Facebook wall posts, and Twitter direct messages without a search warrant. It also would give the FBI and Homeland Security more authority, in some circumstances, to gain full access to Internet accounts without notifying either the owner or a judge.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57552225-38/senate-bill-rewrite-lets-feds-read-your-e-mail-without-warrants/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title

This is the same as walking into my house and reading personal letters I have written without permission. I can't believe the insanity that is occurring.

Well the difference is, personal letters written in your house have not been transmitted through various companies equipment and telecommunications systems. When you signed up for the Google Account, Facebook Account, etc, did you read the fine print when you "aggreed to the terms" or did you just click on it and forget it? Sort of like when an employee uses the work computer to do personal things. It's the company's equipment and they can and DO look at everything employees do on the internet at work. Wonder how some people get caught doing crimes? Because they go on line and talk about it or even show an elevated interest in specifics about a crime.

Anything and everything you do on line becomes the property of the carrier/provider. And that's where the government comes in. The government then can gather that information through the carrier/provider. Remove the carreir/provider and the government has no way of getting your information.

Actually what you are saying would be true absent a privacy policy.

Constitutional privacy rights only exist in the public domain.... since all networks are privately owned (just like this forum). one is subject to ONLY the terms and conditions they agree to (but likely do not read). Constitutional privacy and free speech rights do not apply.

The problem occurs when these "various companies" you mention have privacy policies where they promise to protect customer data that runs on their networks, or through their applications, and then fail to indemnify themselves from the consequence of search without the costumers permission. This is because the government binds them under warrant, to NOT disclose the search (this is a violation of your Constitutional rights)... but that does not indemnify the company for violating their own privacy policy to their customers.

In essence if they say they'll get your permission, but do not.. they are liable.

If any of these companies came out and simply said "we won't protect your data", there wouldn't be any data for the government to unconstitutionally look for, because no one would use their services. It's also why these companies constantly change their privacy policies...