President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[The Sushi Hunter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Social Security and this Obamacare sort of have the same general idea behind it, which is, "everybody pays into it and everybody gets something out of it". If this is correct, why is it that Social Security is failing and why will Obamacare not fail for the same reason(s)?

Social Security is losing money because current retirees are paid for by current workers. Therefore, if you are retired your children and grandchildren are paying for it....and you paid for your parents and grandparents. Social Security is NOT some type of savings account that you pay into while you work. The reason it is in trouble is because the baby boom generation is now retiring and retirees will outnumber workers VERY soon

Um, it's in trouble for more reasons than that. They borrow from it consistently, for one.

So what's going to prevent this exact problem from happening with Obamacare?

The other day I was thinking that if this Obamacare bullshit happens, I will just make more appointments and do checkups every few months and such to make up for the money I'm forced into paying in the form of higher premiums and rates. I then realized that this is what everyone will do and what will the effects of that be on the system? Increase in premiums and rates more and more?

[Boomchild]

So what's going to prevent this exact problem from happening with Obamacare?

Nothing, we have decades of proof. One would think that we could vote for the people that would do something about it but even that doesn't seem to work. All politicians seem to be corrupt or ineffective in one way or another.

[Memorex]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Social Security and this Obamacare sort of have the same general idea behind it, which is, "everybody pays into it and everybody gets something out of it". If this is correct, why is it that Social Security is failing and why will Obamacare not fail for the same reason(s)?

Social Security is losing money because current retirees are paid for by current workers. Therefore, if you are retired your children and grandchildren are paying for it....and you paid for your parents and grandparents. Social Security is NOT some type of savings account that you pay into while you work. The reason it is in trouble is because the baby boom generation is now retiring and retirees will outnumber workers VERY soon

Um, it's in trouble for more reasons than that. They borrow from it consistently, for one.

So what's going to prevent this exact problem from happening with Obamacare?

The other day I was thinking that if this Obamacare bullshit happens, I will just make more appointments and do checkups every few months and such to make up for the money I'm forced into paying in the form of higher premiums and rates. I then realized that this is what everyone will do and what will the effects of that be on the system? Increase in premiums and rates more and more?

The problem is you will land on their death panels to save money. Be careful.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Social Security and this Obamacare sort of have the same general idea behind it, which is, "everybody pays into it and everybody gets something out of it". If this is correct, why is it that Social Security is failing and why will Obamacare not fail for the same reason(s)?

Social Security is losing money because current retirees are paid for by current workers. Therefore, if you are retired your children and grandchildren are paying for it....and you paid for your parents and grandparents. Social Security is NOT some type of savings account that you pay into while you work. The reason it is in trouble is because the baby boom generation is now retiring and retirees will outnumber workers VERY soon

Um, it's in trouble for more reasons than that. They borrow from it consistently, for one.

So what's going to prevent this exact problem from happening with Obamacare?

The other day I was thinking that if this Obamacare bullshit happens, I will just make more appointments and do checkups every few months and such to make up for the money I'm forced into paying in the form of higher premiums and rates. I then realized that this is what everyone will do and what will the effects of that be on the system? Increase in premiums and rates more and more?

The problem is you will land on their death panels to save money. Be careful.

True that.

[Boomchild]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Social Security and this Obamacare sort of have the same general idea behind it, which is, "everybody pays into it and everybody gets something out of it". If this is correct, why is it that Social Security is failing and why will Obamacare not fail for the same reason(s)?

Social Security is losing money because current retirees are paid for by current workers. Therefore, if you are retired your children and grandchildren are paying for it....and you paid for your parents and grandparents. Social Security is NOT some type of savings account that you pay into while you work. The reason it is in trouble is because the baby boom generation is now retiring and retirees will outnumber workers VERY soon

Um, it's in trouble for more reasons than that. They borrow from it consistently, for one.

So what's going to prevent this exact problem from happening with Obamacare?

The other day I was thinking that if this Obamacare bullshit happens, I will just make more appointments and do checkups every few months and such to make up for the money I'm forced into paying in the form of higher premiums and rates. I then realized that this is what everyone will do and what will the effects of that be on the system? Increase in premiums and rates more and more?

The problem is you will land on their death panels to save money. Be careful.

Wait a minute, wasn't it Obama's message that it was Romney that was going to let your Granny die?

[Monker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Social Security and this Obamacare sort of have the same general idea behind it, which is, "everybody pays into it and everybody gets something out of it". If this is correct, why is it that Social Security is failing and why will Obamacare not fail for the same reason(s)?

Social Security is losing money because current retirees are paid for by current workers. Therefore, if you are retired your children and grandchildren are paying for it....and you paid for your parents and grandparents. Social Security is NOT some type of savings account that you pay into while you work. The reason it is in trouble is because the baby boom generation is now retiring and retirees will outnumber workers VERY soon

Um, it's in trouble for more reasons than that. They borrow from it consistently, for one.

So what's going to prevent this exact problem from happening with Obamacare?

The other day I was thinking that if this Obamacare bullshit happens, I will just make more appointments and do checkups every few months and such to make up for the money I'm forced into paying in the form of higher premiums and rates. I then realized that this is what everyone will do and what will the effects of that be on the system? Increase in premiums and rates more and more?

The problem is you will land on their death panels to save money. Be careful.

Wait a minute, wasn't it Obama's message that it was Romney that was going to let your Granny die?

No, it was Romney's message that Granny, and everybody else who receives Social Security, were irrelevant because they were part of the %47.

[Boomchild]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Social Security and this Obamacare sort of have the same general idea behind it, which is, "everybody pays into it and everybody gets something out of it". If this is correct, why is it that Social Security is failing and why will Obamacare not fail for the same reason(s)?

Social Security is losing money because current retirees are paid for by current workers. Therefore, if you are retired your children and grandchildren are paying for it....and you paid for your parents and grandparents. Social Security is NOT some type of savings account that you pay into while you work. The reason it is in trouble is because the baby boom generation is now retiring and retirees will outnumber workers VERY soon

Um, it's in trouble for more reasons than that. They borrow from it consistently, for one.

So what's going to prevent this exact problem from happening with Obamacare?

The other day I was thinking that if this Obamacare bullshit happens, I will just make more appointments and do checkups every few months and such to make up for the money I'm forced into paying in the form of higher premiums and rates. I then realized that this is what everyone will do and what will the effects of that be on the system? Increase in premiums and rates more and more?

The problem is you will land on their death panels to save money. Be careful.

Wait a minute, wasn't it Obama's message that it was Romney that was going to let your Granny die?

No, it was Romney's message that Granny, and everybody else who receives Social Security, were irrelevant because they were part of the %47.

I'm sorry did you say something??

[slucero]

So it looks like the Senate passed something that allows them to say they've averted the fiscal cliff.. a plan that

• raises $620 billion in revenue over 10 years, includes
• a tax increase that hit at least individuals making $400,000 a year and $450,000 for households, and
• a 2-month sequester delay: cuts would come half from defense & half-non-defense. 2 month window to give all sides time for bigger deal.

Lest anyone forget... The current US Deficit is $1.3 Trillion, and will be a $900B (projected) next year, and $668B (projected) year after that.. of course these projections are based on nominal GDP growth... when in actuality the nominality (face value) of GDP, and the market for that matter, is no longer an indicator of economic health.


"Kick that can".....

[Memorex]

LMAO!!!

Perhaps THIS should be my new Wallpaper!!

Yeahright.....my Husband, the Republican, would freakin' DIVORCE me....

Here's a picture he'll understand.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-01/putting-americas-tax-hike-perspective

[AR]

Could the rich Congressmen and Senators possibly pass on their salaries for one year and be public servants and not disgusting fucking pigs?

Throw us a bone and pretend you care you pieces of shit?

[steveo777]

Could the rich Congressmen and Senators possibly pass on their salaries for one year and be public servants and not disgusting fucking pigs?

Throw us a bone and pretend you care you pieces of shit?

POS's normally have a leader. Can you guess who that leader is? Hint: His initials are B.O.


The speed of the leader is the speed of the team, but unfortnately Obama doesn't lead......he just butts heads with everyone and does what he wants to do when they disagree with him. That = a piss poor leader.

[Monker]

Could the rich Congressmen and Senators possibly pass on their salaries for one year and be public servants and not disgusting fucking pigs?

Throw us a bone and pretend you care you pieces of shit?

POS's normally have a leader. Can you guess who that leader is? Hint: His initials are B.O.


The speed of the leader is the speed of the team, but unfortnately Obama doesn't lead......he just butts heads with everyone and does what he wants to do when they disagree with him. That = a piss poor leader.

Except for the FACT that the budget and fiscal cliff sits on the shoulders of Congress....and it's the Republicans who have been out of step with reality and are only now trying to face it.

And, if you look at the post above, Obama got a tax increase similar to what he wanted...and the automatic spending cuts are a BETTER option then what the Republicans last offered, which had NO defense spending cuts. So, he's already won...just ironing out the details...which is exactly what I thought would happen.

Complain all you want...this is such a predictable and non-issue.

[The Sushi Hunter]

POS's normally have a leader. Can you guess who that leader is? Hint: His initials are B.O.


The speed of the leader is the speed of the team, but unfortnately Obama doesn't lead......he just butts heads with everyone and does what he wants to do when they disagree with him. That = a piss poor leader.

I completely agree.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Who didn't see that coming? Also consider the number of people who voted for O and make less than 30K a year or don't even work at all. They won't be effected so they don't care.

[The Sushi Hunter]

How about if they make less than 30K from welfare, government assistance and government funded programs?

[The Sushi Hunter]

How about if they make less than 30K from welfare, government assistance and government funded programs?

Those lowlifes won't know the difference I'm afraid, only us workerbees.

And that's why O was voted in.

[Memorex]

If FICA was correct before, it should go back up. I don't have an issue with that.

I stated before that I believe the FICA decrease was to offset the increased health plan costs most of us were paying. My pay went up 2% and my health care cost went up about the same and my paycheck didn't change much. So how could I possibly be upset, right? Now people are going to feel those healthcare increases.

[Rick]

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/1 ... -is-raised



Although official Washington is currently fixated on the so-called “Fiscal Cliff,” the biggest threat to American prosperity is the debt ceiling, which must be raised in February to prevent economic catastrophe. If Republicans refuse to reach a deal on the so-called cliff, the Congressional Budget Office predicts that they will spark a new recession in 2013. But if Republicans block action on the debt ceiling, they will make that potential recession look quaint. Without raising the debt ceiling, the United States will be forced to embrace austerity so severe it will lead to “a bigger GDP drop than that experienced during the Great Recession of 2008.”

But in an interview on Fox News Sunday this morning, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) threatened to oppose this must-pass bill unless Social Security benefits are taken away from millions of future retirees:

I’m not going to raise the debt ceiling unless we get serious about keeping the country from becoming Greece, saving Social Security and Medicare [sic]. So here’s what i would like: meaningful entitlement reform — not to turn Social Security into private accounts, not to take a voucher approach to Medicare — but, adjust the age for Social Security, CPI changes and means testing and look beyond the ten-year window. I cannot in good conscience raise the debt ceiling without addressing the long term debt problems of this country and I will not.

Watch it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... X4efwimhrY

This is extortion, plain and simple. It is the budgetary equivalent of threatening to break America’s legs unless Congress agrees to break the backs of millions poised on the edge of retirement. Graham’s position is that seniors should have to wait longer for their retirement benefits — even if they work in physically demanding jobs that literally tear the body apart by the time a worker reaches age 65 — and that those benefits should be reduced in the future.

And if Congress won’t agree to this deal, then Graham is prepared to thrust the nation into an economic calamity unheard of since the Great Depression.

[slucero]

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/30/1379681/lindsay-graham-i-will-destroy-americas-solvency-unless-the-social-security-retirement-age-is-raised



Although official Washington is currently fixated on the so-called “Fiscal Cliff,” the biggest threat to American prosperity is the debt ceiling, which must be raised in February to prevent economic catastrophe. If Republicans refuse to reach a deal on the so-called cliff, the Congressional Budget Office predicts that they will spark a new recession in 2013. But if Republicans block action on the debt ceiling, they will make that potential recession look quaint. Without raising the debt ceiling, the United States will be forced to embrace austerity so severe it will lead to “a bigger GDP drop than that experienced during the Great Recession of 2008.”

But in an interview on Fox News Sunday this morning, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) threatened to oppose this must-pass bill unless Social Security benefits are taken away from millions of future retirees:

I’m not going to raise the debt ceiling unless we get serious about keeping the country from becoming Greece, saving Social Security and Medicare [sic]. So here’s what i would like: meaningful entitlement reform — not to turn Social Security into private accounts, not to take a voucher approach to Medicare — but, adjust the age for Social Security, CPI changes and means testing and look beyond the ten-year window. I cannot in good conscience raise the debt ceiling without addressing the long term debt problems of this country and I will not.

Watch it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... X4efwimhrY

This is extortion, plain and simple. It is the budgetary equivalent of threatening to break America’s legs unless Congress agrees to break the backs of millions poised on the edge of retirement. Graham’s position is that seniors should have to wait longer for their retirement benefits — even if they work in physically demanding jobs that literally tear the body apart by the time a worker reaches age 65 — and that those benefits should be reduced in the future.

And if Congress won’t agree to this deal, then Graham is prepared to thrust the nation into an economic calamity unheard of since the Great Depression.

What a bunch of fucking malarkey. The "Fiscal Cliff" has nothing to do with the economy. The only thing keeping the economy alive is Fed intervention (QE1, QE2, QE3, and now "QE to Infinity and Beyond!") all of which ware less effective than their predecessor. Not a good prognosis for success.

Every fucking indicator is worse than the official numbers say.. because the measurement methodologies have been changed. Hell if unemployment was measured the same it was during Clintons tenure it would be 12%!

Look at who's getting jobs these days..



Fiscal Cliff my ass.

[AR]

I put this at the feet of all politicians, but Obama was deceitful saying the middle class wouldn't see their taxes go up. "Fiscal Cliff", taxing the "man" was all a smokescreen.

Yes the FICA tax reduction was temporary, but this caught a lot of dummies by surprise.

It's hitting me a bit, (I'll adjust, not spend and hurt the economy) but I am amused at those middle class people like me who were so partisan on either side only to be ass raped.

And it's not over anal virgins.

[Monker]

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/30/1379681/lindsay-graham-i-will-destroy-americas-solvency-unless-the-social-security-retirement-age-is-raised



Although official Washington is currently fixated on the so-called “Fiscal Cliff,” the biggest threat to American prosperity is the debt ceiling, which must be raised in February to prevent economic catastrophe. If Republicans refuse to reach a deal on the so-called cliff, the Congressional Budget Office predicts that they will spark a new recession in 2013. But if Republicans block action on the debt ceiling, they will make that potential recession look quaint. Without raising the debt ceiling, the United States will be forced to embrace austerity so severe it will lead to “a bigger GDP drop than that experienced during the Great Recession of 2008.”

But in an interview on Fox News Sunday this morning, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) threatened to oppose this must-pass bill unless Social Security benefits are taken away from millions of future retirees:

I’m not going to raise the debt ceiling unless we get serious about keeping the country from becoming Greece, saving Social Security and Medicare [sic]. So here’s what i would like: meaningful entitlement reform — not to turn Social Security into private accounts, not to take a voucher approach to Medicare — but, adjust the age for Social Security, CPI changes and means testing and look beyond the ten-year window. I cannot in good conscience raise the debt ceiling without addressing the long term debt problems of this country and I will not.

Watch it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... X4efwimhrY

This is extortion, plain and simple. It is the budgetary equivalent of threatening to break America’s legs unless Congress agrees to break the backs of millions poised on the edge of retirement. Graham’s position is that seniors should have to wait longer for their retirement benefits — even if they work in physically demanding jobs that literally tear the body apart by the time a worker reaches age 65 — and that those benefits should be reduced in the future.

And if Congress won’t agree to this deal, then Graham is prepared to thrust the nation into an economic calamity unheard of since the Great Depression.

What a bunch of fucking malarkey. The "Fiscal Cliff" has nothing to do with the economy. The only thing keeping the economy alive is Fed intervention (QE1, QE2, QE3, and now "QE to Infinity and Beyond!") all of which ware less effective than their predecessor. Not a good prognosis for success.

Every fucking indicator is worse than the official numbers say.. because the measurement methodologies have been changed. Hell if unemployment was measured the same it was during Clintons tenure it would be 12%!

Look at who's getting jobs these days..



Fiscal Cliff my ass.

Did you even read the article?

It is saying RAISING THE DEBT CEILING is a bigger issue and will cause a bigger financial crisis then the "fiscal cliff".

Do you not see how shutting down the government, essentially defaulting on our debt, would throw this nation into a depression? Republicans should stop playing politics with this and just do it..This shouldn't even be an issue.

[AR]

Monker,

Would you at least admit that the now $2,000 my family is going to lose would be better used by me to invest in my daughter's college fund or something else that I choose? (as opposed to the Social Security I will never see)

Also admit that all on Capitol Hill with a willing media hid from the general idiotic public that quietly letting the payroll tax reduction expire was much more important to most working families than the "fiscal cliff"? That should have been the big story.

I'm not blaming any political shit party here. There was deceit everywhere. The non-aware middle class just thought the rich were going to get taxed while we all knew the working class would get raped.

[Boomchild]

Would you at least admit that the now $2,000 my family is going to lose would be better used by me to invest in my daughter's college fund or something else that I choose? (as opposed to the Social Security I will never see)

Well, Obama said "we all need to make sacrifices", guess this will be yours.

[Boomchild]

If FICA was correct before, it should go back up. I don't have an issue with that.

I stated before that I believe the FICA decrease was to offset the increased health plan costs most of us were paying. My pay went up 2% and my health care cost went up about the same and my paycheck didn't change much. So how could I possibly be upset, right? Now people are going to feel those healthcare increases.

Guess this takes a bite out the word "affordable" in "Affordable Health Care Act". Good thing just about everybody now calls it Obamacare.

[AR]

Would you at least admit that the now $2,000 my family is going to lose would be better used by me to invest in my daughter's college fund or something else that I choose? (as opposed to the Social Security I will never see)

Well, Obama said "we all need to make sacrifices", guess this will be yours.

When will Congress make sacrifices?

Never on their salaries or spending our earned money.

[slucero]

Did you even read the article?

It is saying RAISING THE DEBT CEILING is a bigger issue and will cause a bigger financial crisis then the "fiscal cliff".

Do you not see how shutting down the government, essentially defaulting on our debt, would throw this nation into a depression? Republicans should stop playing politics with this and just do it..This shouldn't even be an issue.

The U.S. has been only servicing the interest on its debt for a long time.. and as long as it can continue debasing its currency, it also is diluting the debt nominally as a percentage of its GDP, which continues to allow the U.S. to only service the interest on said debt. Hence, there will be no default.

Nominally, we are not in recession, but simply using the Clinton era measurement methodologies for most econ indicators, it is easy to see that the economy has been in recession for awhile now. It's only the change in measurement methodology that has created what we see nominally.

Certainly shutting the government down would affect the markets from a sentiment standpoint. But because the current nominality of the markets does not reflect true economic reality (meaning the numbers are skewed) most know that the underlying fundamentals are weak/false. Traders have know this for awhile now, it's why they simply trading on sentiment, or are on the sidelines. There are too many variables distorting the markets' pricing mechanism.

The biggest problem facing this country (heck the world) is the original one - the weight of consumer and sovereign debt.. its why:

• total sovereign debt has risen from 70 Trillion to $240 Trillion in the last 6 years.. and
• U.S. consumer debt is at it's all time high ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/0 ... 60457.html ) borrowing more for this last Xmas season than ever, yet the retail reporting reflected the worst numbers since 2008.

The measurement methodologies will continue to be "updated" so nominally, the numbers at a minimum can be said to be holding steady, but there will be no real economic growth until there is debt de-leveraging, which will create the space for some sustainable growth in consumer spending.

It is why central banks worldwide, including the Fed, are monetizing as much consumer debt as they can, but it will not be fast enough to keep pace with the rate of debt service on the ever growing pile of what is sovereign debt..

The debt ceiling will be raised.

[Boomchild]

Would you at least admit that the now $2,000 my family is going to lose would be better used by me to invest in my daughter's college fund or something else that I choose? (as opposed to the Social Security I will never see)

Well, Obama said "we all need to make sacrifices", guess this will be yours.

When will Congress make sacrifices?

Never on their salaries or spending our earned money.

You must have missed that this only applies to "the little people". By being elected they are automatically exempt from everything that has a negative effect.

[steveo777]

Raising the debt ceiling into infinity is almost as ridiculous as proposing that perpetual motion is possible. Apparently one is not possible and the other will have dire consequences. Proof that people simply don't care about the people who come after them, in fact, some of them are of the ilk of "who gives a shit what happens after I die". There are unborn people who will still have to clean up this mess. Not really fair to them, is it?

[Boomchild]

Did you even read the article?

It is saying RAISING THE DEBT CEILING is a bigger issue and will cause a bigger financial crisis then the "fiscal cliff".

Do you not see how shutting down the government, essentially defaulting on our debt, would throw this nation into a depression? Republicans should stop playing politics with this and just do it..This shouldn't even be an issue.

The U.S. has been only servicing the interest on its debt for a long time.. and as long as it can continue debasing its currency, it also is diluting the debt nominally as a percentage of its GDP, which continues to allow the U.S. to only service the interest on said debt. Hence, there will be no default.

Nominally, we are not in recession, but simply using the Clinton era measurement methodologies for most econ indicators, it is easy to see that the economy has been in recession for awhile now. It's only the change in measurement methodology that has created what we see nominally.

Certainly shutting the government down would affect the markets from a sentiment standpoint. But because the current nominality of the markets does not reflect true economic reality (meaning the numbers are skewed) most know that the underlying fundamentals are weak/false. Traders have know this for awhile now, it's why they simply trading on sentiment, or are on the sidelines. There are too many variables distorting the markets' pricing mechanism.

The biggest problem facing this country (heck the world) is the original one - the weight of consumer and sovereign debt.. its why:

• total sovereign debt has risen from 70 Trillion to $240 Trillion in the last 6 years.. and
• U.S. consumer debt is at it's all time high ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/0 ... 60457.html ) borrowing more for this last Xmas season than ever, yet the retail reporting reflected the worst numbers since 2008.

The measurement methodologies will continue to be "updated" so nominally, the numbers at a minimum can be said to be holding steady, but there will be no real economic growth until there is debt de-leveraging, which will create the space for some sustainable growth in consumer spending.

It is why central banks worldwide, including the Fed, are monetizing as much consumer debt as they can, but it will not be fast enough to keep pace with the rate of debt service on the ever growing pile of what is sovereign debt..

The debt ceiling will be raised.

So I suppose "the cliffnotes" version of this would be were still screwing ourselves.

[steveo777]

Did you even read the article?

It is saying RAISING THE DEBT CEILING is a bigger issue and will cause a bigger financial crisis then the "fiscal cliff".

Do you not see how shutting down the government, essentially defaulting on our debt, would throw this nation into a depression? Republicans should stop playing politics with this and just do it..This shouldn't even be an issue.

The U.S. has been only servicing the interest on its debt for a long time.. and as long as it can continue debasing its currency, it also is diluting the debt nominally as a percentage of its GDP, which continues to allow the U.S. to only service the interest on said debt. Hence, there will be no default.

Nominally, we are not in recession, but simply using the Clinton era measurement methodologies for most econ indicators, it is easy to see that the economy has been in recession for awhile now. It's only the change in measurement methodology that has created what we see nominally.

Certainly shutting the government down would affect the markets from a sentiment standpoint. But because the current nominality of the markets does not reflect true economic reality (meaning the numbers are skewed) most know that the underlying fundamentals are weak/false. Traders have know this for awhile now, it's why they simply trading on sentiment, or are on the sidelines. There are too many variables distorting the markets' pricing mechanism.

The biggest problem facing this country (heck the world) is the original one - the weight of consumer and sovereign debt.. its why:

• total sovereign debt has risen from 70 Trillion to $240 Trillion in the last 6 years.. and
• U.S. consumer debt is at it's all time high ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/0 ... 60457.html ) borrowing more for this last Xmas season than ever, yet the retail reporting reflected the worst numbers since 2008.

The measurement methodologies will continue to be "updated" so nominally, the numbers at a minimum can be said to be holding steady, but there will be no real economic growth until there is debt de-leveraging, which will create the space for some sustainable growth in consumer spending.

It is why central banks worldwide, including the Fed, are monetizing as much consumer debt as they can, but it will not be fast enough to keep pace with the rate of debt service on the ever growing pile of what is sovereign debt..

The debt ceiling will be raised.

So I suppose "the cliffnotes" version of this would be were still screwing ourselves.

We have not evolved to the point where most people's penises can reach their asses yet. Telling people to go fuck themselves is not yet possible.