President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Memorex]

The Supreme court is not always right. I bet you could name a dozen 5-4 decisions in the last 20 years that you think are absolutely wrong. And you would blame it on the right-leaning court. And the right does the same for their pet-issues.

And so, naturally, I am entitled to hold the government hostage, right? You're insane.

You do have a point. I will say I think the R's should stand back and let this law take place. A big majority of people that wanted this will be hurt by it. Unfortunately, so will the rest of us. I really do hope that it helps some people. Right now, I am hearing it's too expensive for those it was meant to help and many will take the fine. And the deductibles and co-pays are pretty extreme. So I feel like we didn't help people yet. We'll see.

This law was for one thing only - stepping stone to single payer. Then, it can all be like the VA. That will be fun, huh?

I forget how many times, but the words "At the Discretion of the Secretary" appear over and over in the bill. That means anytime they want to expand it's reach or deny it's coverage, they can. This bill will evolve to be beyond unmanageable.

[Memorex]

R's believe, and deeply, that a person should be responsible for themselves.

No, that's what they say in campaign ads and stump speeches, and then they use your tax payer dollars to bail out their friends.

And so to that end, they truly believe that a person should have the right to plan for their retirement in their own way. So they believe that a person should be able to invest their money in a plan, rather than giving it to the government. So when they get up there and fight for that, they are fighting for what they believe is a better way for folks to deal with retirement. Invest for yourself or be forced to pay the government when you don't want to. Seems logical. They aren't trying to harm Americans.

Boy howdy, that sounds great. Too bad Social Security was created out of necessity, because far too many old people were spending their last days drinking themselves to death on skid row. The safety net wasn't put in place to punish ordinary Americans. Get rid of Social Security and you are just shifting more people onto the Welfare rolls. Eliminating payroll taxes doesn't free up money for people to take an investing risk and become the next Warren Buffet - they simply spend it on flat screen TVs and useless crap.

So no alternative to anything favored by a D is good enough. D's know it all to you? D's have all the answers? And for R's, R's have all the answers and the D's are idiots.

Ok.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This law was for one thing only - stepping stone to single payer. Then, it can all be like the VA. That will be fun, huh?

I don't know why you say that. If Obama had wanted single payer, he could've proposed expanding Medicare, a much more politically safe and popular move. The public option was the Trojan horse for single payer, and that's now gone. The Democratic Party is still a wholly-owned subsidiary of corporate america and expects lavish donations from the healthcare industry come re-election time. I don't see the HMOs going anywhere tbh.

[Memorex]

There is a song about how divided we are and I had an idea for a video.

It shows two friends having a blast together. Picture them having BBQ's, going to concerts, laughing and consoling and just good soul mates. Cut to them showing up at the same time, coincidentally, at a polling place. One has a D pin and one has an R pin. They look at each other with disdain and they put their noses up at each other. This is what we have become. People hate each other, distrust each other, and look down on each other because of political beliefs. Pretty lame. Unfortunately, our president, other leaders, talking heads on TV, etc. are feeding it like crazy.

We all get through life the same. We all love our kids and our families the same. We'd all lend a hand to someone in need in our lives. We're all going to die the same. Funny how much we are giving up in life just to pick a side. Not that these things are unimportant, they are. But we no longer have the ability to work together or even live together. I see it in my own family and I hate it.

[Memorex]

This law was for one thing only - stepping stone to single payer. Then, it can all be like the VA. That will be fun, huh?

I don't know why you say that. If Obama had wanted single payer, he could've proposed expanding Medicare, a much more politically safe and popular move. The public option was the Trojan horse for single payer, and that's now gone. The Democratic Party is still a wholly-owned subsidy of Corporate America and expects lavish donations from the healthcare industry come re-election time. I don't see the HMOs going anywhere tbh.

This law cannot stand the way it is now. There's no conceivable way that it can succeed. It's far too expensive, too many jobs are being lost, there won't be great coverage of things. Private companies are going to continue to throw in the towel. I guess we'll have to pick up this part of the discussion in 5-10 years and see what adjustments have been made. But right now, no one wants to negotiate. So I don't know.

[Memorex]

Obamacare Job Cuts:

http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/093013-669013-obamacare-employer-mandate-a-list-of-cuts-to-work-hours-jobs.htm

I'm sure the list is a lot bigger. Companies like mine would never make the list and many don't want to advertise it.

Hey, maybe we should boycott all these companies for not providing better care. Then they can all go out of business and there will be less tax revenue to pay for all the IRS agents that have to make sure you have health care. Good plan.

[Memorex]

The Supreme court is not always right. I bet you could name a dozen 5-4 decisions in the last 20 years that you think are absolutely wrong. And you would blame it on the right-leaning court. And the right does the same for their pet-issues.

And so, naturally, I am entitled to hold the government hostage, right? You're insane.

While the unions cannot shut down the government, they are far from R's and they want changes to this bill asap.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This law cannot stand the way it is now. There's no conceivable way that it can succeed. It's far too expensive, too many jobs are being lost, there won't be great coverage of things. Private companies are going to continue to throw in the towel. I guess we'll have to pick up this part of the discussion in 5-10 years and see what adjustments have been made. But right now, no one wants to negotiate. So I don't know.

Originally, Soc Security didn't cover black people. These things take time and fine tuning.

[Boomchild]

That's right - you have been teabagged. Now suck em good!

That's too funny. Wonder if that is how our elected officials talk to each other behind closed doors.

[steveo777]

That's right - you have been teabagged. Now suck em good!

That's too funny. Wonder if that is how our elected officials talk to each other behind closed doors.

Sure they do, while eating lark tongues and drinking vintage wine.

Actually, the only way to keep Dems from spending money is to furlough them. We're saving money folks!

[Boomchild]

Actually, the "American" thing to do would be for the GOP to recognize that the Supreme Court (a right wing supreme court, no less), and the final arbiter on all things Constitutional, upheld Obongocare as the law of the land. Deal with it.

Your right, the Supreme Court ruled that it was Constitutional. They ruled on the version of the bill as it was at that time. But since then, B.O. has changed it. Examples of this are, Delay of the employer mandate, exemptions given to some union organizations and Congressional Representatives having portions of their coverage paid for by tax payers. All of these things have been done with out Congress making the changes. It's an overreach of power by POTUS. He is charged with enforcing the laws passed by Congress as they are. Not pick and choose or change the law as he personally sees fit. This begs the question, if it is such a good thing for ALL AMERICANS, then why do they need to delay the employer mandate, exempt certain groups from the rules or have public officials not pay the same amount for coverage as the average citizen? This is why some in Congress are against the implementation of HCR as it is now.

[Boomchild]

That's right - you have been teabagged. Now suck em good!

That's too funny. Wonder if that is how our elected officials talk to each other behind closed doors.

Sure they do, while eating lark tongues and drinking vintage wine.

Actually, the only way to keep Dems from spending money is to furlough them. We're saving money folks!

Maybe they should follow the example of some the corporations and reduce their work hours to 28 hours a week.

[pinkfloyd1973]

Private companies with incentives to maximize profits usually try and do things to, you know, be efficient. And it always rights itself. The torch is passed from one company to the next as better ways of doing things are created.

Then why do so many companies NOT provide benefits to their workers? Where is this self-improvement of which you speak? You can go into any Walmart break room in America and find posters instructing workers on how to apply for food stamps and welfare. Is this capitalism at work? Pay people pennies on the dollar and then shift their essential services onto the public dime? It is shameful. And businesses do not actually play a role in the delivery of medical services, so your efficiency line is laughably meaningless.

I have worked for Wal-Mart for about seven years now, and not once did I find a poster with instructions on how to get on Welfare or food stamps (neither of which I receive, by the way)

[pinkfloyd1973]

Private companies with incentives to maximize profits usually try and do things to, you know, be efficient. And it always rights itself. The torch is passed from one company to the next as better ways of doing things are created.

Then why do so many companies NOT provide benefits to their workers? Where is this self-improvement of which you speak? You can go into any Walmart break room in America and find posters instructing workers on how to apply for food stamps and welfare. Is this capitalism at work? Pay people pennies on the dollar and then shift their essential services onto the public dime? It is shameful. And businesses do not actually play a role in the delivery of medical services, so your efficiency line is laughably meaningless.

You mention Medicare, etc. All would be better under private direction.

That's funny, because premiums on private plans and administrative costs have all risen much more sharply than Medicare and Medicaid. The GOP is a perverse freak show that needs to be put out of its misery.

The difference is that those private companies remain profitable and contribute to our economy. Government plans are in severe debt because people are too entitled to allow for adjustment. Too much time on the government breast.

Walmart is a perfect example and I am glad you bring it up. Let's say that the government was in the same business as Walmart. Not to employ people, but to sell products to the consumer at a reasonable price in stores all over the country. Walmart handles this task so phenomenally well, they have put many others out of business and continue to grow. By the way, when Kmart started to lack in this area, Walmart came in and took over. That's the torch being passed part. If it was the government, they would be in it to the death with no competition and no replacement (see Post Office for example).

Now, that said, Walmart has low wages and that's not good for the employment side of the equation. So good at moving product at a low rate efficiently while turning a profit, but bad at wages and benefits. But this is something that will always happen. Can't stop it. Wish we could, but no other model makes sense for our time. That's why we need strong leaders working day and night creating new industries and creating a pathway to better jobs in other sectors. We have NO ONE working on jobs right now. They want to focus on Walmart and McDonalds. Good luck. Our time is better spent focusing on how to have a better job than those places.

Next.

Wal-Mart is essentially an entry-level job, it starts out at minimum wage and you get some increases (and more, depending on how long you work there and how well you do). I may not make a lot, but I make enough as a full-time associate to get by. Yes, I can get a better job and maybe some schooling (which I am doing, by the way), but I don't demand more because I am pretty much replaceable. People need to be more motivated on bettering themselves by going to school or learning a trade, instead of getting minimum wage jobs and then complaining because it doesn't pay enough or does not have any kind of benefits

[Boomchild]

Wal-Mart is essentially an entry-level job, it starts out at minimum wage and you get some increases (and more, depending on how long you work there and how well you do). I may not make a lot, but I make enough as a full-time associate to get by. Yes, I can get a better job and maybe some schooling (which I am doing, by the way), but I don't demand more because I am pretty much replaceable. People need to be more motivated on bettering themselves by going to school or learning a trade, instead of getting minimum wage jobs and then complaining because it doesn't pay enough or does not have any kind of benefits

This is a very good point. The issue is that a good amount of people that are in these entry-level, your replaceable positions aren't getting this type of motivation from our current government leaders. Instead they are preaching the gospel of "you don't need to improve yourself, you have just been cheated by the fat cats". Those fat cats are hoarding all the money. Money they really didn't do much to get. So, in swoops the government to save the day to demand a "fair share" of that loot and spread it around for everybody. That's the fair thing to do.

[Boomchild]

So just how does our government pass a law for health care reform that is a train wreck and people on mass don't seem to be concerned about it? Just watch this and you'll figure it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE

[slucero]

This law was for one thing only - stepping stone to single payer. Then, it can all be like the VA. That will be fun, huh?

I don't know why you say that. If Obama had wanted single payer, he could've proposed expanding Medicare, a much more politically safe and popular move. The public option was the Trojan horse for single payer, and that's now gone. The Democratic Party is still a wholly-owned subsidiary of corporate america and expects lavish donations from the healthcare industry come re-election time. I don't see the HMOs going anywhere tbh.

Harry Reid said it 2 moths ago.....

Sen. Harry Reid: Obamacare 'Absolutely' A Step Toward A Single-Payer System

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapotheca ... er-system/

When I speak to conservatives about health care policy, I’m often asked the question: “Do you think that Obamacare is secretly a step toward single-payer health care?” I always explain that, while progressives may want single-payer, I don’t think that Obamacare is deliberately designed to bring about that outcome. Well, yesterday on PBS’ Nevada Week In Review, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D., Nev.) was asked whether his goal was to move Obamacare to a single-payer system. His answer? “Yes, yes. Absolutely, yes.”

In one sense, this isn’t shocking. Reid and many other Democrats, including President Obama, have often stated that their ideal health-care system is one in which the government abolishes the private insurance market. Video of the PBS discussion isn’t yet online, but here’s how Karoun Demirjian of the Las Vegas Sun described it:

Reid said he thinks the country has to “work our way past” insurance-based health care during a Friday night appearance on Vegas PBS’ program “Nevada Week in Review.”

“What we’ve done with Obamacare is have a step in the right direction, but we’re far from having something that’s going to work forever,” Reid said.

When then asked by panelist Steve Sebelius whether he meant ultimately the country would have to have a health care system that abandoned insurance as the means of accessing it, Reid said: “Yes, yes. Absolutely, yes.”

Reid noted that he and other progressives fought hard for a “public option” in the exchanges as a Trojan horse for single-payer, but Democrats didn’t have 60 votes in the Senate to achieve it:

The idea of introducing a single-payer national health care system to the United States, or even just a public option, sent lawmakers into a tizzy back in 2009, when Reid was negotiating the health care bill.

“We had a real good run at the public option … don’t think we didn’t have a tremendous number of people who wanted a single-payer system,” Reid said on the PBS program, recalling how then-Sen. Joe Lieberman’s opposition to the idea of a public option made them abandon the notion and start from scratch.

Eventually, Reid decided the public option was unworkable.

“We had to get a majority of votes,” Reid said. “In fact, we had to get a little extra in the Senate, we have to get 60.”

Reid sees the tax exclusion for employer-sponsored health insurance as the primary obstacle to single-payer health care:

Reid cited the post-WWII auto industry labor negotiations that made employer-backed health insurance the norm, remarking that “we’ve never been able to work our way out of that” before predicting that Congress would someday end the insurance-based health care system.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Private companies with incentives to maximize profits usually try and do things to, you know, be efficient. And it always rights itself. The torch is passed from one company to the next as better ways of doing things are created.

Then why do so many companies NOT provide benefits to their workers? Where is this self-improvement of which you speak? You can go into any Walmart break room in America and find posters instructing workers on how to apply for food stamps and welfare. Is this capitalism at work? Pay people pennies on the dollar and then shift their essential services onto the public dime? It is shameful. And businesses do not actually play a role in the delivery of medical services, so your efficiency line is laughably meaningless.

I have worked for Wal-Mart for about seven years now, and not once did I find a poster with instructions on how to get on Welfare or food stamps (neither of which I receive, by the way)

Good for you. Try Marshalls or Kmart instead. Trust me, this is the new American normal.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Harry Reid said it 2 moths ago....

I don't care. If Obama couldn't/wouldn't create a direct government job program in the middle of the worst recession in decades, what makes you think he would create a government single payer solution for healthcare? Weren't single payer advocates actually physically thrown out of the Senate Finance Committee? You guys really need to get a grip on reality. The whole bill is a windfall to the private HMOs. Follow the money...

[The_Noble_Cause]

Wal-Mart is essentially an entry-level job, it starts out at minimum wage and you get some increases (and more, depending on how long you work there and how well you do). I may not make a lot, but I make enough as a full-time associate to get by. Yes, I can get a better job and maybe some schooling (which I am doing, by the way), but I don't demand more because I am pretty much replaceable. People need to be more motivated on bettering themselves by going to school or learning a trade, instead of getting minimum wage jobs and then complaining because it doesn't pay enough or does not have any kind of benefits

Come back to us after you have your degree, 30K in student loans, and still can't find a job. You sound fairly naive.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Your right, the Supreme Court ruled that it was Constitutional. They ruled on the version of the bill as it was at that time. But since then, B.O. has changed it. Examples of this are, Delay of the employer mandate, exemptions given to some union organizations and Congressional Representatives having portions of their coverage paid for by tax payers.

Then have the Supreme Court rule on it again. They'll find it constitutional, and the GOP will once again throw a hissy fit because things didn't work out the way they wanted to.

[verslibre]

I have worked for Wal-Mart for about seven years now, and not once did I find a poster with instructions on how to get on Welfare or food stamps (neither of which I receive, by the way)

Good for you. Try Marshalls or Kmart instead. Trust me, this is the new American normal.

So you('ve) work(ed) at Kmart AND Walmart? When are the Doritos going back on sale?

[The Sushi Hunter]

So you('ve) work(ed) at Kmart AND Walmart? When are the Doritos going back on sale?

Lol. So does kmart still have blue light specials? Back in "the day" Kmart was pretty cool, as a kid I used to get all my fishing gear from there.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Yeah, I'm sure as time goes by, the impact of this bullshit deal will become more and more clear. The only two groups that benefit from this is the ones who don't pay into the system but leach off of it and the ones who do very little but are health care money pits because they don't take care of themselves at all and are constantly going in for operations and shit. Nice that all the shitheads who congregate at fast food restaurants throughout the middle of the night since they don't have work during the day, will be covered.

[pinkfloyd1973]

Wal-Mart is essentially an entry-level job, it starts out at minimum wage and you get some increases (and more, depending on how long you work there and how well you do). I may not make a lot, but I make enough as a full-time associate to get by. Yes, I can get a better job and maybe some schooling (which I am doing, by the way), but I don't demand more because I am pretty much replaceable. People need to be more motivated on bettering themselves by going to school or learning a trade, instead of getting minimum wage jobs and then complaining because it doesn't pay enough or does not have any kind of benefits

Come back to us after you have your degree, 30K in student loans, and still can't find a job. You sound fairly naive.

Wow, judgmental much?

[pinkfloyd1973]

Good for you. Try Marshalls or Kmart instead. Trust me, this is the new American normal.

I worked for Kmart long ago, most of the ones by me are closing up.....Older sister worked for them for over 30 years only to be told that they're closing, and that if after a grace period she wanted to work for them again, she'd have to start all over (she was working in the office)

[pinkfloyd1973]

I have worked for Wal-Mart for about seven years now, and not once did I find a poster with instructions on how to get on Welfare or food stamps (neither of which I receive, by the way)

Good for you. Try Marshalls or Kmart instead. Trust me, this is the new American normal.

So you('ve) work(ed) at Kmart AND Walmart? When are the Doritos going back on sale?

[The Sushi Hunter]

oBOzocare caught on tape....with audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OOg7vL3rNY

[slucero]

Harry Reid said it 2 moths ago....

I don't care. If Obama couldn't/wouldn't create a direct government job program in the middle of the worst recession in decades, what makes you think he would create a government single payer solution for healthcare? Weren't single payer advocates actually physically thrown out of the Senate Finance Committee? You guys really need to get a grip on reality. The whole bill is a windfall to the private HMOs. Follow the money...

Nice, you care that its the "law of the land".. but you don't care that the Senate leader who ramrodded it admits they originally wanted single-payer.. and that this is just a "trojan horse" to get to that end... nice selective hearing ya got going on there...

And Obama didn't write this bill, and army of HC lawyers did..

And I said, way back before this thing was passed and you were "singin it's praises"... that all it was was a was money grab by the HC industry... but you knew that.. and support it anyways..

[slucero]

Wal-Mart is essentially an entry-level job, it starts out at minimum wage and you get some increases (and more, depending on how long you work there and how well you do). I may not make a lot, but I make enough as a full-time associate to get by. Yes, I can get a better job and maybe some schooling (which I am doing, by the way), but I don't demand more because I am pretty much replaceable. People need to be more motivated on bettering themselves by going to school or learning a trade, instead of getting minimum wage jobs and then complaining because it doesn't pay enough or does not have any kind of benefits

Come back to us after you have your degree, 30K in student loans, and still can't find a job. You sound fairly naive.

Wow, judgmental much?

He's insanely judgmental... and mental.. all at the same time...