OFFICIAL 2010-2011 NFL season & predictions thread:

[YoungJRNY]

I'm not saying Montana isn't or is the best quarterback who ever lived. Some and MANY have Montana at #1 and respectively so. His numbers are far and above anyone else, and like you said, championships as well. But Elway had more game as far as making things happen in different ways more than one. Montana was nothing short of an EPIC pocket passer while Elway, esp early in his career, could do damage with his legs as well. Elway was prolific when it came to getting out of the pocket and creating a mess for defense's, rushing for 3,407 yards in his career with 33 rushing touchdowns. That's 1,731 more yards rushing than Montana and 13 more touchdowns as well so that has to be calculated in the conversation as well. (Montana also had THEE best wide receiver to EVER play the game in Jerry Rice for 8 seasons, so that's a factor in comparison.)

I just think Elway was more of a bitch to contend with than anyone else of his time because he gave you an all around game to offend and was a helluva gritty football player to boot and would lower his shoulders for the extra yardage.

Stats can be thrown everywhere but I look at other things as well to an overall player so Elway, individually tops my list as the best all around Quarterback.

I'm not with you on Elway's rushing statistics. They're not relevant when talking about great NFL QB's. Hell, I think Steve Grogan still holds the NFL rushing TD record for a season when he played for the Patriots many years ago. The point you made that I highlighted above is a point that I've made about Montana forever, and it is a fair point. I've always given Brady the nod, even over Montana because Brady won three championships with the worse collection of receivers EVER assembled on three Super Bowl winning teams. Montana had Jerry Rice during all of his four championships, and that fact cannot be ignored. See that...some common ground...finally!

I think what we just accomplished is much better than insults and calling each other douchebags, assholes, retards and nitwits. We can have a thorough discussion as well as opposite but acceptable opinions from both sides. Even though we might not always see eye to eye, I enjoy what you bring as a fan and to conversation and that opens up many views that can be continued to be discussed. There is no right or wrong, but to have a respective conversation from both viewpoints is a step in the right direction haha.

[S2M]

Elway didn't do anything until Rod Smith got there....Smith and Davis carried that team.

[Enigma869]

After visiting Denver for the first time last weekend, I can hardly say I blame Elway. What a city.

Aren't you from Cleveland?

[Enigma869]

Elway retired at the top of his game ... after winning consecutive Super Bowls. It's a real shame he didn't try to become the first QB to ever win 3 straight. Personally, I think that Broncos team, with Elway at the helm in 1999, would have beat the shit out of the Saint fucking Louis Rams. The Rams/Titans Super Bowl was a joke and a shitfest. If you're gonna cite what Montana didn't do when he wasn't starting, I think it's fair to do the same for Elway (retiring).

Actually it pains me to admit this, but I actually agree with S2M. The reality is that Elway never won anything until Denver turned into a running team with Terrell Davis. The guy was slinging it all over the place and running all over the place for many years without winning anything, and once TD got there, that became a very formidable team.

[S2M]

Elway retired at the top of his game ... after winning consecutive Super Bowls. It's a real shame he didn't try to become the first QB to ever win 3 straight. Personally, I think that Broncos team, with Elway at the helm in 1999, would have beat the shit out of the Saint fucking Louis Rams. The Rams/Titans Super Bowl was a joke and a shitfest. If you're gonna cite what Montana didn't do when he wasn't starting, I think it's fair to do the same for Elway (retiring).

Actually it pains me to admit this, but I actually agree with S2M. The reality is that Elway never won anything until Denver turned into a running team with Terrell Davis. The guy was slinging it all over the place and running all over the place for many years without winning anything, and once TD got there, that became a very formidable team.

Actually, they won it in Rod Smith's first year....TD's 3rd.....IMHO, it was Smith who galvanized that offense. Shannon was there previously, and they couldn't even win with just him.....sad really....

[Ehwmatt]

After visiting Denver for the first time last weekend, I can hardly say I blame Elway. What a city.

Aren't you from Cleveland?

Yep

[Enigma869]

After visiting Denver for the first time last weekend, I can hardly say I blame Elway. What a city.

Aren't you from Cleveland?

Yep

Hmmmmm. That's what I thought. No disrespect, because I've always thought you were a good dude, but Cleveland is usually number one on every list I've ever seen for "The Worse Cities In America".

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61H5WN20100218

[YoungJRNY]

Elway retired at the top of his game ... after winning consecutive Super Bowls. It's a real shame he didn't try to become the first QB to ever win 3 straight. Personally, I think that Broncos team, with Elway at the helm in 1999, would have beat the shit out of the Saint fucking Louis Rams. The Rams/Titans Super Bowl was a joke and a shitfest. If you're gonna cite what Montana didn't do when he wasn't starting, I think it's fair to do the same for Elway (retiring).

Actually it pains me to admit this, but I actually agree with S2M. The reality is that Elway never won anything until Denver turned into a running team with Terrell Davis. The guy was slinging it all over the place and running all over the place for many years without winning anything, and once TD got there, that became a very formidable team.

Actually, they won it in Rod Smith's first year....TD's 3rd.....IMHO, it was Smith who galvanized that offense. Shannon was there previously, and they couldn't even win with just him.....sad really....

How is that sad? Shanahan used his weapons into the Denver attack and they became one helluva football team in Elway's latter years. NFL builds teams to contend with for a reason and Denver had a helluva squad to go with Elway's leadership skills and the resume of a hall of fame quarterback to complete the team with Davis's shifty and powerful runnin, let alone Shannon Sharpe at tight end. It's not sad, Denver built a helluva good team. Good enough to win back-to-back Championships.

[S2M]

Elway retired at the top of his game ... after winning consecutive Super Bowls. It's a real shame he didn't try to become the first QB to ever win 3 straight. Personally, I think that Broncos team, with Elway at the helm in 1999, would have beat the shit out of the Saint fucking Louis Rams. The Rams/Titans Super Bowl was a joke and a shitfest. If you're gonna cite what Montana didn't do when he wasn't starting, I think it's fair to do the same for Elway (retiring).

Actually it pains me to admit this, but I actually agree with S2M. The reality is that Elway never won anything until Denver turned into a running team with Terrell Davis. The guy was slinging it all over the place and running all over the place for many years without winning anything, and once TD got there, that became a very formidable team.

Actually, they won it in Rod Smith's first year....TD's 3rd.....IMHO, it was Smith who galvanized that offense. Shannon was there previously, and they couldn't even win with just him.....sad really....

How is that sad? Shanahan used his weapons into the Denver attack and they became one helluva football team in Elway's latter years. NFL builds teams to contend with for a reason and Denver had a helluva squad to go with Elway's leadership skills and the resume of a hall of fame quarterback to complete the team with Davis's shifty and powerful runnin, let alone Shannon Sharpe at tight end. It's not sad, Denver built a helluva good team. Good enough to win back-to-back Championships.

Yep, and without Smith and Davis - he becomes a footnote just like Mr. Isotoner....

[Ehwmatt]

After visiting Denver for the first time last weekend, I can hardly say I blame Elway. What a city.

Aren't you from Cleveland?

Yep

Hmmmmm. That's what I thought. No disrespect, because I've always thought you were a good dude, but Cleveland is usually number one on every list I've ever seen for "The Worse Cities In America".

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61H5WN20100218

Ok, what does that have to do with anything? I was saying I don't blame Elway for wanting to go TO Denver after visiting there last week. It's an awesome city, especially if you enjoy being active.

[YoungJRNY]

Elway retired at the top of his game ... after winning consecutive Super Bowls. It's a real shame he didn't try to become the first QB to ever win 3 straight. Personally, I think that Broncos team, with Elway at the helm in 1999, would have beat the shit out of the Saint fucking Louis Rams. The Rams/Titans Super Bowl was a joke and a shitfest. If you're gonna cite what Montana didn't do when he wasn't starting, I think it's fair to do the same for Elway (retiring).

Actually it pains me to admit this, but I actually agree with S2M. The reality is that Elway never won anything until Denver turned into a running team with Terrell Davis. The guy was slinging it all over the place and running all over the place for many years without winning anything, and once TD got there, that became a very formidable team.

Actually, they won it in Rod Smith's first year....TD's 3rd.....IMHO, it was Smith who galvanized that offense. Shannon was there previously, and they couldn't even win with just him.....sad really....

How is that sad? Shanahan used his weapons into the Denver attack and they became one helluva football team in Elway's latter years. NFL builds teams to contend with for a reason and Denver had a helluva squad to go with Elway's leadership skills and the resume of a hall of fame quarterback to complete the team with Davis's shifty and powerful runnin, let alone Shannon Sharpe at tight end. It's not sad, Denver built a helluva good team. Good enough to win back-to-back Championships.

Yep, and without Smith and Davis - he becomes a footnote just like Mr. Isotoner....

Don't get too ahead of yourself Malone, Elway held that team together. Davis proved to be what? A couple year hit wonder so in MY eyes Davis OR Smith wouldn't of made it either without the overall picture as well. They couldn't do it alone. Signs of a great football team and that's exactly what they were.

[S2M]

No one's saying they weren't a great football team. I'm saying Elway wasn't all that and a bag of chips....

[YoungJRNY]

No one's saying they weren't a great football team. I'm saying Elway wasn't all that and a bag of chips....

Haha, come on dude, yes he was. Elway was a competitor to the highest degree and his numbers speak amongst the greats. That's insane to say something along those lines about Elway. I know you're trying to make a point for whatever reason, but to come down hard on Jon Elway is a pointless argument. Rod Smith played 8 more seasons for the Broncos and had a good career for himself, but nothing that he offered was good enough to single handily win Denver championships like you claim. Terrell Davis, after Elways retirement, never played more than 8 games after the fact and retired in 2002. Davis might have helped Elway get a ring, but Elway helped make those players shine as well and I'm sure Davis ran behind that line with a passion because it was the threat that opposed off of Elway's presence, not necc. Davis's legs.

Actually I'm kind of burnt out about talking about this subject and Jon Elway.

[Enigma869]

Ok, what does that have to do with anything? I was saying I don't blame Elway for wanting to go TO Denver after visiting there last week. It's an awesome city, especially if you enjoy being active.

My bad Matt. I completely misunderstood what you said. I thought you were saying that you couldn't blame Elway for retiring after visiting Denver. Now, it all makes perfect sense.

[Ehwmatt]

Ok, what does that have to do with anything? I was saying I don't blame Elway for wanting to go TO Denver after visiting there last week. It's an awesome city, especially if you enjoy being active.

My bad Matt. I completely misunderstood what you said. I thought you were saying that you couldn't blame Elway for retiring after visiting Denver. Now, it all makes perfect sense.

Haha, I figured. Good to see you back 'round these parts too you fucker. I haven't been posting too much in recent months, but I'm still reading here and there most days.

[RossValoryRocks]

Obviously you can insert any team that hasn't won a superbowl...but...since I am a Steelers fan...and the Clowns...err Browns are coming into town this weekend...I thought it was appropriate!


I met a fairy today that would grant me one wish.

"I want to live forever," I said.

"Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"

"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Cleveland Browns win the Super Bowl!"

"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.

[mikemarrs]

Elway retired at the top of his game ... after winning consecutive Super Bowls. It's a real shame he didn't try to become the first QB to ever win 3 straight. Personally, I think that Broncos team, with Elway at the helm in 1999, would have beat the shit out of the Saint fucking Louis Rams. The Rams/Titans Super Bowl was a joke and a shitfest. If you're gonna cite what Montana didn't do when he wasn't starting, I think it's fair to do the same for Elway (retiring).

Actually it pains me to admit this, but I actually agree with S2M. The reality is that Elway never won anything until Denver turned into a running team with Terrell Davis. The guy was slinging it all over the place and running all over the place for many years without winning anything, and once TD got there, that became a very formidable team.

Actually, they won it in Rod Smith's first year....TD's 3rd.....IMHO, it was Smith who galvanized that offense. Shannon was there previously, and they couldn't even win with just him.....sad really....

How is that sad? Shanahan used his weapons into the Denver attack and they became one helluva football team in Elway's latter years. NFL builds teams to contend with for a reason and Denver had a helluva squad to go with Elway's leadership skills and the resume of a hall of fame quarterback to complete the team with Davis's shifty and powerful runnin, let alone Shannon Sharpe at tight end. It's not sad, Denver built a helluva good team. Good enough to win back-to-back Championships.

Yep, and without Smith and Davis - he becomes a footnote just like Mr. Isotoner....

i remember those commercials with dan marino.

[Eric]

All I heard from people was how much Favre sucked last season. He had 38 TD's and 7 picks.

I'm not sure who the hell you're listening to but I didn't hear ANYONE say that Favre sucked last season. Hell, it was probably the greatest season of his career. That said, he still puked on his shoes when it mattered, in the playoffs!

Didn't he have 4 TD's in the 2nd round?

[Enigma869]

Didn't he have 4 TD's in the 2nd round?

I don't care if he had 17 TD's in the second round. The reality is that almost every time his team has lost in the playoffs over the past 12 seasons, it's been because of him giving the game away with a moronic throw! I'm certain the next thing that will happen will be Brett going on a media whoring publicity tour about his "tendinitis" in his elbow. He wants to make damn sure that when Goodell hands down the suspension that is coming his way, that he makes a pre-emptive strike so that he can claim his consecutive games streak came to an end because of a phantom injury and not because he couldn't keep his cock out of the way of a camera. The guy is a complete fucking fraud and douchebag! Every NFL fan that bows at this guy's feet needs a slap. As someone who grew up playing football, I can tell you that Favre is not a teammate that I would ever want. He's more of a "diva" douche than most wide receivers and that's really saying something!

[YoungJRNY]

Didn't he have 4 TD's in the 2nd round?

I don't care if he had 17 TD's in the second round. The reality is that almost every time his team has lost in the playoffs over the past 12 seasons, it's been because of him giving the game away with a moronic throw! I'm certain the next thing that will happen will be Brett going on a media whoring publicity tour about his "tendinitis" in his elbow. He wants to make damn sure that when Goodell hands down the suspension that is coming his way, that he makes a pre-emptive strike so that he can claim his consecutive games streak came to an end because of a phantom injury and not because he couldn't keep his cock out of the way of a camera. The guy is a complete fucking fraud and douchebag! Every NFL fan that bows at this guy's feet needs a slap. As someone who grew up playing football, I can tell you that Favre is not a teammate that I would ever want. He's more of a "diva" douche than most wide receivers and that's really saying something!

Speaking of Favre's late interceptions, last years NFC Champ game should have never even came down to that final pick. (It was said that the receiver didn't follow through with the route, the same route they hit on big the week before, and if you go back and watch it, Favre threw it to a spot he thought he was going to be. Mis-communication INT if anything.) Minny committed a plethora of turnovers and non-forgiving 6 fumbles (esp by Adrian Peterson in N.O territory.) 6 fumbles, or even 3 fumbles means suicide to a football team and pretty much too big of a hole for any team to climb out of, esp in that big of a game.

I couldn't even believe that game went into overtime. After all of those fumbles put on the ground, Minny still had the chance to go down with the game winning score with seconds left. Who's to tell if the O.T rule would of been in effect last year if Brett Favre would have gotten the opportunity when they got the ball back to try to answer N.O's score. Interesting to see that O.T rule come into play this season if it comes to it.

[Eric]

Didn't he have 4 TD's in the 2nd round?

I don't care if he had 17 TD's in the second round. The reality is that almost every time his team has lost in the playoffs over the past 12 seasons, it's been because of him giving the game away with a moronic throw! I'm certain the next thing that will happen will be Brett going on a media whoring publicity tour about his "tendinitis" in his elbow. He wants to make damn sure that when Goodell hands down the suspension that is coming his way, that he makes a pre-emptive strike so that he can claim his consecutive games streak came to an end because of a phantom injury and not because he couldn't keep his cock out of the way of a camera. The guy is a complete fucking fraud and douchebag! Every NFL fan that bows at this guy's feet needs a slap. As someone who grew up playing football, I can tell you that Favre is not a teammate that I would ever want. He's more of a "diva" douche than most wide receivers and that's really saying something!

Those teams wouldn't have been in position for him to throw a pick if he hadn't gunslinged them to that point is the thing.

He is what he is....a great thrower.

[Enigma869]

He is what he is....a great thrower.

With shitty judgment!


I heard a Boston media member sum up Favre as well as I've ever heard the guy summed up. He said you have no shot to win without Favre and you have no shot to win with him! That's about right, because when the game is on the line, he is going to gag it away. Peyton Manning has a bit of a reputation as not being able to win big games (in spite of winning one championship) and Favre has gagged away FAR more games than Manning ever has.

[YoungJRNY]

He is what he is....a great thrower.

With shitty judgment!


I heard a Boston media member sum up Favre as well as I've ever heard the guy summed up. He said you have no shot to win without Favre and you have no shot to win with him! That's about right, because when the game is on the line, he is going to gag it away. Peyton Manning has a bit of a reputation as not being able to win big games (in spite of winning one championship) and Favre has gagged away FAR more games than Manning ever has.

Can Tom Brady PLEASE throw for 10 TD pass's this week? Or N.E block 5 punts for TD's? Or return the kickoff 3 times to the house? God damn do I hate Baltimore.

[mikemarrs]

He is what he is....a great thrower.

With shitty judgment!


I heard a Boston media member sum up Favre as well as I've ever heard the guy summed up. He said you have no shot to win without Favre and you have no shot to win with him! That's about right, because when the game is on the line, he is going to gag it away. Peyton Manning has a bit of a reputation as not being able to win big games (in spite of winning one championship) and Favre has gagged away FAR more games than Manning ever has.

Can Tom Brady PLEASE throw for 10 TD pass's this week? Or N.E block 5 punts for TD's? Or return the kickoff 3 times to the house? God damn do I hate Baltimore.

same here.probably more than any other team i despise the ravens.

[mikemarrs]

four more days until trade deadline


packers should try and deal with cowboys for marion barber they need a RB

rams should try and get steve smith from the panthers they need receiver help

cards should try and trade derek anderson to the ravens and get marc bulger.

the 49ers should also try and get a good veteran quarterback.

[Enigma869]

Can Tom Brady PLEASE throw for 10 TD pass's this week? Or N.E block 5 punts for TD's? Or return the kickoff 3 times to the house? God damn do I hate Baltimore.

I wouldn't count on New England beating Baltimore this week. Conventional wisdom says take New England, because Belichick is 7-0 after his last 7 bye weeks. I'm not taking the cheese. This is a VERY different New England team without Moss to stretch the field and take a safety and a corner EVERYWHERE with him on the field. I thought Deion Branch was a VERY average receiver when he was in NE before being traded to Seattle, and my opinion hasn't changed. Ultimately, the "new" Patriots' offense will be good for the very inexperienced Patriots' defense. There will be no more 2 play, 65 yard drives that last 1:27, forcing the defense back on the field. This will quickly become a ball control offense with 5 and 7 yard dump off passes to whoever is open. Not a lot of "fantasy" football options on NE with Moss gone, but if Aaron Hernandez is available in your league, get him now. Dude is a stud in the making. Even though they call him a Tight End, he's really just a big receiver running receiver patterns. Ravens by 10! My upset pick of the week...Broncos over Jets!

[YoungJRNY]

Can Tom Brady PLEASE throw for 10 TD pass's this week? Or N.E block 5 punts for TD's? Or return the kickoff 3 times to the house? God damn do I hate Baltimore.

I wouldn't count on New England beating Baltimore this week. Conventional wisdom says take New England, because Belichick is 7-0 after his last 7 bye weeks. I'm not taking the cheese. This is a VERY different New England team without Moss to stretch the field and take a safety and a corner EVERYWHERE with him on the field. I thought Deion Branch was a VERY average receiver when he was in NE before being traded to Seattle, and my opinion hasn't changed. Ultimately, the "new" Patriots' offense will be good for the very inexperienced Patriots' defense. There will be no more 2 play, 65 yard drives that last 1:27, forcing the defense back on the field. This will quickly become a ball control offense with 5 and 7 yard dump off passes to whoever is open. Not a lot of "fantasy" football options on NE with Moss gone, but if Aaron Hernandez is available in your league, get him now. Dude is a stud in the making. Even though they call him a Tight End, he's really just a big receiver running receiver patterns. Ravens by 10! My upset pick of the week...Broncos over Jets!

That's pretty much how I broke down New England as well when the Moss trade went down. New England, in Foxboro though is VERY tough, almost unbeatable coming off of a BYE week. Brady and ESP Bellichick will have that despicable loss in their minds last season in the playoffs, in Foxboro so that right there is very scary territory for Flacco and the Ravens. Even though the Pats could get scorched weekly, they have been playing better defense as an overall unit, and Baltimore is coming off of 2 straight Conference wins so I like New England in this one, but honestly? Who the fuck knows. This year in the NFL is just one of those years to where nothing is set in stone with matchups like the previous years. Should be a good game. I'll post this weeks games soon.

[S2M]

NE 24 - Balt 17

Ravens are posers....haven't faced a good offense yet. Perhaps NE even scores 31, or 34. I know this: Joe Flaccid will be lucky to get 17 pts on the board though....book it!

[Enigma869]

NE 24 - Balt 17

Ravens are posers....haven't faced a good offense yet. Perhaps NE even scores 31, or 34. I know this: Joe Flaccid will be lucky to get 17 pts on the board though....book it!

I just want to know if you've ever picked the Patriots to lose a single game!

[S2M]

NE 24 - Balt 17

Ravens are posers....haven't faced a good offense yet. Perhaps NE even scores 31, or 34. I know this: Joe Flaccid will be lucky to get 17 pts on the board though....book it!

I just want to know if you've ever picked the Patriots to lose a single game!

In the 70s, and mid-late 80s....all the time.

My Lions take care of that for me....although they look to be on the rise. I NEVER go into a game thinking the Pats will lose. And neither should they.