President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[RedWingFan]

Put your money where your mouth is dude. I'm ready and willing.

Tell you what assface- I will bet you on these upcoming midterms if you promise to bet me in 2012. You have NO ONE who can defeat Obama, and you'll lose back the seats you are getting this year. The economy will be rosy again and we'll be out of Afghanistan...that sounds like a cool song lyric- anyway, you guys are in terrible shape.

Anybody will beat Obama. The dems will continue to hemorage past 2012. They've showed the country what a socialist bunch they are... and they don't like it. $100 per house seat and $500 per senate seat.

[RedWingFan]

Um. No, they're not reversed. Democrats STILL think minorities are inferior which is why they insist on implementing quotas whenever and wherever they can. Must not think they're smart enough to compete on even terms. You remember that Gore/Bush debate don't you? Gore getting in Bush's grill shouting..."Do you support quotas? Do you support quotas?"

Are you ever a fucking a blatant racist sonofabitch. Dude, quotas, ie. affirmative action sucks, but it is a necessary function, because the country is so full of racist bigoted white assholes who will never give a minority a fucking fighting shot at a job. If you cannot understand that we still have not rid ourselves of racism, you are a lonely poor soul. I get it, you're white, and safe....imagine yourself in a black man's skin, knowing that many people hate you for none other than your constant tan? How pathetic a society is this when we A) act this way, and B) can't realize or recognize the problem is ever clear and present? No wonder you guys get hit with the race card...you deserve it.

Conservatives believe in "equal opportunity" not trying to guarantee the "equality of results" which is quotas. Quotas are based on race, which makes them racist, one way or the other. Please tell me you grasp that Dean.

This is why when Obama talks about how important it is to nominate judges who have "empathy" is WRONG. Lady Justice wears a blindfold for a reason. Judges and Justices should interperate the law, not lean one way or the other because someones skin color.

[donnaplease]

Obviously a black (latino, filipino, whatever) man or woman should be given equal consideration if they are equally qualified, but to give a minority who is less qualified a job just because of his/her race is still racism. It's even worse in a way, because to complain about it makes you look like a racist whether you are or not, and gives supposed ammunition to someone wanting to throw a race card out there. In essence, a call for equality is then called racism. How jacked up is that???

[Rockindeano]

Put your money where your mouth is dude. I'm ready and willing.

Tell you what assface- I will bet you on these upcoming midterms if you promise to bet me in 2012. You have NO ONE who can defeat Obama, and you'll lose back the seats you are getting this year. The economy will be rosy again and we'll be out of Afghanistan...that sounds like a cool song lyric- anyway, you guys are in terrible shape.

Anybody will beat Obama. The dems will continue to hemorage past 2012. They've showed the country what a socialist bunch they are... and they don't like it. $100 per house seat and $500 per senate seat.

You're on, if you agree to 10,000 on the presidential race. Not one of your clowns can beat Obama. Good luck with Romney and his social medicine , or Palin and her empty head, or even a scarred lesbian father Gingrich. Goooood luck wit that buddy. BTW, the Dems aren't hemorrhaging....ever party in power loses seats in midterms. look at history dumbshit. Look at 1981/2 and reagan's numbers. They are remarkably similar to Obama's.

[Rockindeano]

Conservatives believe in "equal opportunity" not trying to guarantee the "equality of results" which is quotas. Quotas are based on race, which makes them racist, one way or the other. Please tell me you grasp that Dean.

Sure they do. That's why Conservatives are 96% white. Try again. I am not going to teach you night school RWF.

[Rockindeano]

Obviously a black (latino, filipino, whatever) man or woman should be given equal consideration if they are equally qualified, but to give a minority who is less qualified a job just because of his/her race is still racism. It's even worse in a way, because to complain about it makes you look like a racist whether you are or not, and gives supposed ammunition to someone wanting to throw a race card out there. In essence, a call for equality is then called racism. How jacked up is that???

How jacked up is that? I will give you that argument and I know AA has it's Achilles heal, but on the other hand, please tell me how jacked up it is for a well qualified black guy to get passed over for a job because well, he is black. Forget that he pays taxes, votes, is educated, and serves in the US military...nah, those values don't seem to see the light of day with conservatives. The fact that he is a 'nigger' is all they see. Makes me fucking sick. Affirmative action is in place to counter the 'uknown' racism held by many of today's employers. While not perfect, it is necessary to forge equality. You remember those words in the pre amble right? "All men are created equal." Well, maybe so, but they sure as hell aren't treated as such.

[Jana]

Crist has sunk in the polls and is getting crushed by the conservative Rubio. He knows he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting through the primary. The same reason Spector jumped ship in Pennsylvania. Watch Toomey kick his ass there too. Put your money where your mouth is dude. I'm ready and willing.

but your boy rubio is against the racial profiling law in arizona, which the teabaggers back.. could be trouble in right wing paradise

This is all shocking to me. I thought it was a mistake Crist didn't go for a second term as governor, and instead during his first term starts running for Mel's seat. He thought he had it locked up, until the tide turned for conversative Rubio being backed and pulling way ahead in the polls. How quickly it changes. Some say he's ruining his political career. This senate race will be very interesting. I've usually always voted Republican for governor b/c I've never been a fan of the Democratic candidates but stayed party line for Senate. He thought he was becoming one of the darlings of the GOP and he toppled b/f he climbed the mountain. Charlie was/is aiming for the presidency some day. We'll see how this tact works for him and his future.

[7 Wishes]

Good God, RightWingNutJob.

Now the GOP is the party of opportunity?

Call us when the shuttle lands.

[RedWingFan]

I will give you that argument and I know AA has it's Achilles heal, but on the other hand, please tell me how jacked up it is for a well qualified black guy to get passed over for a job because well, he is black.

Granted Dean, I wasn't born 'til after the 60's. But wasn't this made illegal with "civil rights legislation"? (which republicans supported and democrats opposed)

If some white liberal tells my son (who's of Mexican descent) that he needs a racial quota or lower standards to compete, It'd take everything in me to keep from knocking their fucking teeth in.

[RedWingFan]

He thought he had it locked up, until the tide turned for conversative Rubio being backed and pulling way ahead in the polls. How quickly it changes. Some say he's ruining his political career. This senate race will be very interesting. I've usually always voted Republican for governor b/c I've never been a fan of the Democratic candidates but stayed party line for Senate. He thought he was becoming one of the darlings of the GOP and he toppled b/f he climbed the mountain. Charlie was/is aiming for the presidency some day. We'll see how this tact works for him and his future.

Rubio is still going to roll and win the Senate seat. That lib Crist knew he was toast among republicans and conservatives, that's why he quit and switched his party affiliation. Crist exposed himself along with Obama.

[RedWingFan]

BTW, the Dems aren't hemorrhaging....ever party in power loses seats in midterms.

Didn't Republicans pick up seats in one or both houses in 2002? Think I remember hearing back then how it hadn't happened in forever...My memory could be mistaken here.

[The_Noble_Cause]

(which republicans supported and democrats opposed)

Both parties supported the JFK/LBJ Democratic Civil Rights Bill. Northern Rockefeller Republicans, in particular, were instrumental in casting 'yay' votes.
In today's terms, these Congressmen would be the Charlie Crists and the Arlen Specters of the GOP - the same types you call "libs" and purge out of the party.

I watched the Rubio vs. Crist debate on Fox News Sunday. IMO, Crist is going to win in a landslide.

[donnaplease]

Obviously a black (latino, filipino, whatever) man or woman should be given equal consideration if they are equally qualified, but to give a minority who is less qualified a job just because of his/her race is still racism. It's even worse in a way, because to complain about it makes you look like a racist whether you are or not, and gives supposed ammunition to someone wanting to throw a race card out there. In essence, a call for equality is then called racism. How jacked up is that???

How jacked up is that? I will give you that argument and I know AA has it's Achilles heal, but on the other hand, please tell me how jacked up it is for a well qualified black guy to get passed over for a job because well, he is black. Forget that he pays taxes, votes, is educated, and serves in the US military...nah, those values don't seem to see the light of day with conservatives. The fact that he is a 'nigger' is all they see. Makes me fucking sick. Affirmative action is in place to counter the 'uknown' racism held by many of today's employers. While not perfect, it is necessary to forge equality. You remember those words in the pre amble right? "All men are created equal." Well, maybe so, but they sure as hell aren't treated as such.

If that is happening (overlooking someone solely because of his/her race) then of course it is wrong. What I am referring to is the numbers game. OK, you have 2 people applying for a job, a white man and a black/purple/green man, or... a woman, and both have the same amount of education, yet the white man has 10 years of experience to the black/purple/green man/woman's one year. All other things being equal (personality, work history, etc), if you give that job to the candidate other than the white man (just to meet some outdated guideline set forth by the government), you are practicing reverse racism/sexism. Period, end of story.

There may have been a time for affirmative action, but is it long past. Certainly there remains racism in our society, from all walks of life. It's not just confined to the rich white conservatives.

[Lula]

If some white liberal tells my son (who's of Mexican descent) that he needs a racial quota or lower standards to compete, It'd take everything in me to keep from knocking their fucking teeth in.

better keep your son out of arizona!!

[Rockindeano]

If some white liberal tells my son (who's of Mexican descent) that he needs a racial quota or lower standards to compete, It'd take everything in me to keep from knocking their fucking teeth in.

The Affirmative action law is there for the likes of your kid, in order to give him a fair chance, not to belittle him. You are taking this the wrong way. I can assure you, that there is a company out there who will take his application, and as soon as he leaves the office, it will find it's way into the circular file. He doesn't stand a fair opportunity at many places.

Oh and by the way, calling me a Liberal doesn't offend me or make me feel embarrassed. You act as if it's a slanderous use of language. I can guarantee you that being a liberal is much more gratifying than being called a neocon.

[Michigan Girl]

The Affirmative action law is there for the likes of your kid, in order to give him a fair chance, not to belittle him.

Why wouldn't he have a fair chance otherwise?!?! RWF, you holding him back?!?!

[Rockindeano]

The Affirmative action law is there for the likes of your kid, in order to give him a fair chance, not to belittle him.

Why wouldn't he have a fair chance otherwise?!?! RWF, you holding him back?!?!

Because there are plenty of people who dislike minorities for whatever the reason. I have worked for companies where the hiring manager flat out told me after a black guy applied, "No way am I hiring a nigger." That's pretty fucked up. I dug dudes app out of the dumpster after work one day, and he was a college grad, applying for a simple shipping and receiving job, because he couldn't find work anywhere. how messed up is that? My whole point in all of this is racism is a hidden hate, one disease where we as a society can not eradicate`it out of certain people, for we cannot discern who is and who isn't harboring race hate. The government is in a position IMO, to install fairness and to ensure that all it's citizens get a equal opportunity. Without AA, it's obvious minorities would be even more shafted.

[RedWingFan]

If some white liberal tells my son (who's of Mexican descent) that he needs a racial quota or lower standards to compete, It'd take everything in me to keep from knocking their fucking teeth in.

better keep your son out of arizona!!

Seriously thinking about scheduling our next vacation in Arizona. If we get asked to provide ID. I'll show the officers and tell them what brought us to their state and thank them for their service.

[donnaplease]

The Affirmative action law is there for the likes of your kid, in order to give him a fair chance, not to belittle him.

Why wouldn't he have a fair chance otherwise?!?! RWF, you holding him back?!?!

Because there are plenty of people who dislike minorities for whatever the reason. I have worked for companies where the hiring manager flat out told me after a black guy applied, "No way am I hiring a nigger." That's pretty fucked up. I dug dudes app out of the dumpster after work one day, and he was a college grad, applying for a simple shipping and receiving job, because he couldn't find work anywhere. how messed up is that? My whole point in all of this is racism is a hidden hate, one disease where we as a society can not eradicate`it out of certain people, for we cannot discern who is and who isn't harboring race hate. The government is in a position IMO, to install fairness and to ensure that all it's citizens get a equal opportunity. Without AA, it's obvious minorities would be even more shafted.

But tell me Dean, how would you feel about that less qualified person (minority or not) getting that dream job you wanted and were significantly more qualified for, just because of the color of his skin? Knowing you as I do, there is NO WAY you would think that's ok. And I'm sure you would have a few choice words to describe how you felt about it too!

[Rockindeano]

The Affirmative action law is there for the likes of your kid, in order to give him a fair chance, not to belittle him.

Why wouldn't he have a fair chance otherwise?!?! RWF, you holding him back?!?!

Because there are plenty of people who dislike minorities for whatever the reason. I have worked for companies where the hiring manager flat out told me after a black guy applied, "No way am I hiring a nigger." That's pretty fucked up. I dug dudes app out of the dumpster after work one day, and he was a college grad, applying for a simple shipping and receiving job, because he couldn't find work anywhere. how messed up is that? My whole point in all of this is racism is a hidden hate, one disease where we as a society can not eradicate`it out of certain people, for we cannot discern who is and who isn't harboring race hate. The government is in a position IMO, to install fairness and to ensure that all it's citizens get a equal opportunity. Without AA, it's obvious minorities would be even more shafted.

But tell me Dean, how would you feel about that less qualified person (minority or not) getting that dream job you wanted and were significantly more qualified for, just because of the color of his skin? Knowing you as I do, there is NO WAY you would think that's ok. And I'm sure you would have a few choice words to describe how you felt about it too!

It actually has happened to me at Amtrak. I got passed over for a female African American. I was pissed at the time, but since then have come to the conclusion that it's a fair just, that somethings have to be righted, and someone has to 'give' in order to get things in balance. To tell you the truth, I reapplied and did get the job a second time, so it all worked out. I understand what you are saying Donna, I just have seen too much nasty hatred toward people for absolutely no reason other than ignorance. I guess I figured if I get passed over, I will have another chance down the road. I'll tell you what, and I don't mind saying this, but being white has it's privileges, and I say that without arrogance. I couldn't imagine being a person of colour in this country. It just seems so unfair. I also think that's why blacks hold a great deal of animosity towards society- they have been oppressed with a silent, hidden disease called racism. it's easy for an employer to cite 'qualifications' of a certain hire; the hire he or she wants...there are no checks and balances in the science of hiring.

[G.I.Jim]

The Affirmative action law is there for the likes of your kid, in order to give him a fair chance, not to belittle him.

Why wouldn't he have a fair chance otherwise?!?! RWF, you holding him back?!?!

Because there are plenty of people who dislike minorities for whatever the reason. I have worked for companies where the hiring manager flat out told me after a black guy applied, "No way am I hiring a nigger." That's pretty fucked up. I dug dudes app out of the dumpster after work one day, and he was a college grad, applying for a simple shipping and receiving job, because he couldn't find work anywhere. how messed up is that? My whole point in all of this is racism is a hidden hate, one disease where we as a society can not eradicate`it out of certain people, for we cannot discern who is and who isn't harboring race hate. The government is in a position IMO, to install fairness and to ensure that all it's citizens get a equal opportunity. Without AA, it's obvious minorities would be even more shafted.

But tell me Dean, how would you feel about that less qualified person (minority or not) getting that dream job you wanted and were significantly more qualified for, just because of the color of his skin? Knowing you as I do, there is NO WAY you would think that's ok. And I'm sure you would have a few choice words to describe how you felt about it too!

It actually has happened to me at Amtrak. I got passed over for a female African American. I was pissed at the time, but since then have come to the conclusion that it's a fair just, that somethings have to be righted, and someone has to 'give' in order to get things in balance. To tell you the truth, I reapplied and did get the job a second time, so it all worked out. I understand what you are saying Donna, I just have seen too much nasty hatred toward people for absolutely no reason other than ignorance. I guess I figured if I get passed over, I will have another chance down the road. I'll tell you what, and I don't mind saying this, but being white has it's privileges, and I say that without arrogance. I couldn't imagine being a person of colour in this country. It just seems so unfair. I also think that's why blacks hold a great deal of animosity towards society- they have been oppressed with a silent, hidden disease called racism. it's easy for an employer to cite 'qualifications' of a certain hire; the hire he or she wants...there are no checks and balances in the science of hiring.

We all know you're a racist Dean.

[donnaplease]

OK, riddle me this, Batman... Do you think the GMs of professional sports teams use affirmative action when signing players to their team? I would guess that there are more (or at least as many) black athletes in the NFL and NBA, but is that because of a quota? I doubt it. Should a more talented running back be overlooked because there aren't enough white running backs in the NFL? Of course not. If they're the most talented, they should get the nod. It should be no different in corporate America, health care, or any other business hiring employees.

[Rockindeano]

OK, riddle me this, Batman... Do you think the GMs of professional sports teams use affirmative action when signing players to their team? I would guess that there are more (or at least as many) black athletes in the NFL and NBA, but is that because of a quota? I doubt it. Should a more talented running back be overlooked because there aren't enough white running backs in the NFL? Of course not. If they're the most talented, they should get the nod. It should be no different in corporate America, health care, or any other business hiring employees.

Donna, there's exceptions to every rule....you picked the grandest of them all, and I cannot adequately argue it. Points to you you little redheaded Virginian. Now it's your turn to riddle me this. If immigration continues like it is, we the whites, will be the minority. Perhaps we now should exercise some compassion and latitude because one day we, the whites, may be on the reverse side of the coin. Just food for thought.

[donnaplease]

Donna, there's exceptions to every rule....you picked the grandest of them all, and I cannot adequately argue it. Points to you you little redheaded Virginian. Now it's your turn to riddle me this. If immigration continues like it is, we the whites, will be the minority. Perhaps we now should exercise some compassion and latitude because one day we, the whites, may be on the reverse side of the coin. Just food for thought.

That's not a riddle, gooberhead!

But, if we all used common sense and didn't look at the color of someone's skin (or what's between their legs) then none of us would have anything to worry about. THAT would be the compassionate thing to do, IMO. In a way, I think the practice of AA is disrespectful to people of minority classes, because it doesn't reward them for what they are capable of, but simply what they look like. As I said, I strongly believe there was once a place for it, but I also thing we've moved past it. I think some people use it as a crutch, and that's sad.

[Rockindeano]

I think the practice of AA is disrespectful to people of minority classes, because it doesn't reward them for what they are capable of, but simply what they look like.

I agree donna.

As I said, I strongly believe there was once a place for it, but I also thing we've moved past it. I think some people use it as a crutch, and that's sad.

This is where we differ. I think AA is still a necessary evil, and that we have not moved past it.

[Memorex]

Oy! Hope this is not true. Last thing we need as a country is another one of these. If they hadn't been so dead-on during the John Edwards story, I'd dismiss it in a second.

Obama Cheating Scandal:
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/obama_cheating_scandal_vera_baker_video_/celebrity/68589

[Monker]

I think the practice of AA is disrespectful to people of minority classes, because it doesn't reward them for what they are capable of, but simply what they look like.

I agree donna.

As I said, I strongly believe there was once a place for it, but I also thing we've moved past it. I think some people use it as a crutch, and that's sad.

This is where we differ. I think AA is still a necessary evil, and that we have not moved past it.

I think people have now forgotten what true 'racism' is. When I read things like Affirmative Action is 'reverse racism', it just makes me roll my eyes. "Reverse racism" is a political term designed to rile up and anger certain voters. Racism is a belief that your race is inheritently superior then others...not simply some kind a political favortism.

However, affirmative action is ALSO politicaly motivated to appease certain voters.

So, it is nothing but a political struggle of words designed to rile up certain people.

If we were SERIOUS about going after businesses which discriminate we would enforce the laws that already exist. The justice department should have the power, if they don't already, to go after those businesses and make examples of them with hefty fines...maybe even force companies to pay for the retirement of those afftected...if the company is large enough.

The fact is, as a country, we are not serious about it. We listen to the conservatives who say whites are being discriminated against with AA and quotas. We listen to the liberals who say there are still racists in corporate America who would not hire minorities if given the choice. I don't believe either side any longer. I think minorities are stuck in a system where politics has more control over their fate then they do....and 'we the people' are encouraging it on both sides.

[donnaplease]

Even though you are disputing my assertions, I actually agree with most of what you have said. However, how do you determine who is being racist and who is using their own personal judgement regarding who they hire and why? I mean, unless there's a sign on the door that says "white men only need apply", how can you really say that someone's racist in their hiring decisions? Your solution (although appropriate) would then just become politicized as well. And then we'd see all kinds of companies fined because perhaps a black man didn't get hired for a position he wasn't really appropriate for anyway. Maybe it wasn't that a black man can't be hired there, just not that black man.

I do believe in reverse racism, though. It doesn't have to be one race inherently superior to the other anymore. There is simply a resentment toward one race by another that can still be considered racism, IMO. I'm sure people like Al Sharpton and Louis Farakkhan (?sp) will be happy to point it out to you if you can't see it.

[hoagiepete]

First off, racism sucks.

Having said that, in the construction industry, there are all sorts of set asides for "minority" or "disadvantaged" companies. When a project is awarded on lowest repsonible (sealed) bid, how can there be discrimination? The only discrimation occuring in this scenario is when the job is awarded to someone that is not low, based on their race, ethnicity or if you are woman owned company. In reality, there are other reasons than race as to why these are not competitive and "need" the set asides.

In addition, what normally happens is companies scamper to find "minority" or "disadvantaged" companies to partner with when this is a requirement, just to get the work.

How someone can say that awarding a job or project to someone less qualified because of their race is not racism, is beyond me.

I feel bad for those discriminated against, but these entitlements only make the problem worse.

[Monker]

Even though you are disputing my assertions, I actually agree with most of what you have said. However, how do you determine who is being racist and who is using their own personal judgement regarding who they hire and why? I mean, unless there's a sign on the door that says "white men only need apply", how can you really say that someone's racist in their hiring decisions? Your solution (although appropriate) would then just become politicized as well. And then we'd see all kinds of companies fined because perhaps a black man didn't get hired for a position he wasn't really appropriate for anyway. Maybe it wasn't that a black man can't be hired there, just not that black man.

Because it is upon the state to prove the case. I don't believe you would see a 'lot of fines'...it would be up to the justice dept to pick and choose the cases they are most able to prove, and win, and make examples of. If they can't prove their case, they won't win.

I do believe in reverse racism, though.

There is no such thing. As I said, racism is believing another race is inferior to your own. The reverse of that is an inferior race believing they are superior. I challenge you to find any reasonable person making an argument that blacks are an inferior race who believe they are superior to whites.

Call it what it is...a political solution to a social problem. You may not agree with the politics of it, but that is what it is..."reverse racism" only exists because some conservatives want to make you angry about affirmative action and quotas. It is always interesting how reasonable people are so easily manipulated by others.

It doesn't have to be one race inherently superior to the other anymore. There is simply a resentment toward one race by another that can still be considered racism, IMO. I'm sure people like Al Sharpton and Louis Farakkhan (?sp) will be happy to point it out to you if you can't see it.

They can point all they want, but it doesn't mean they are correct, or that they are not also playing politics by attempting to manipulate people's emotions.