President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[conversationpc]

No way can Palin run in 2012. I'm actually looking at Costa Rica(safer) and I'll be there if Palin gets in.

This is just as ridiculous as the folks like Alec Baldwin saying they would move out of the country if Bush was re-elected in 2004. Come on.

Nothing funny about it Dave. She is so incompetent. Are you saying you think she can handle this job? Fuck, she just quit as Alaska's Governor for Christ' sake. America will be laughed at worldwide if she gets anywhere close to that office. You think Obama is bad...God help us if Palin wins.

Where did I say it was funny? I said it was ridiculous. That being said, I don't think Palin could be any worse than what we're stuck with right now.

[Rockindeano]

No way can Palin run in 2012. I'm actually looking at Costa Rica(safer) and I'll be there if Palin gets in.

This is just as ridiculous as the folks like Alec Baldwin saying they would move out of the country if Bush was re-elected in 2004. Come on.

Nothing funny about it Dave. She is so incompetent. Are you saying you think she can handle this job? Fuck, she just quit as Alaska's Governor for Christ' sake. America will be laughed at worldwide if she gets anywhere close to that office. You think Obama is bad...God help us if Palin wins.

Where did I say it was funny? I said it was ridiculous. That being said, I don't think Palin could be any worse than what we're stuck with right now.

You need your fuckin head examined. Have you ever seen this Ditz talk? Good lord almighty. Everyone on this here board is heads and shoulders smarter than she is. I have never seen a more incompetent, stupid person in my life, RobbieG included.

As for being stuck with Obama, I think he sucks. However, there are rumblings about a switch over- Hillary to VP and Biden to Sec of State. That sets her up for 2016, and helps Obama win the traditional Democratic states, the industrial states. like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana and so forth, Clinton strong states if you will. Obama won't win a single state south of the Mason Dixon line this time. So I see Hillary coming over in about 8 months and send Biden over to Foggy Bank for the job he really wanted in the first place.

[slucero]

It has nothing to do with incompetent or not... it has to do with the swing vote...


Palin as as polarizing to the left as Hillary was/is to the right. and BOTH are polarizing to a large extent to the segment that counts - the "swing" vote.


The Dems are going to have to portray Obama as a "peoples President", the Reps will use the jobs, the economy, the budget, and Healthcare to paint him as a spend happy Democrat, ironically using the anti-Bush "more of the same" analogy to describe him. My bet is they (The Reps) indirectly toss Bush under the bus. Obama has to retain the voters who got him into office... the youth vote, and the swing vote... if he loses either, he's toast.


The Republicans to are going to have to find a candidate who is perceived as more of a populist than conservative (Rep) or liberal (Dem)... because they have to regain those fence-sitting Reps who voted for Obama as a "vote against the Republican party" AND they have to regain the swing voters.


IMHO - this all comes down to which candidate is perceived as the most populist.

[Rockindeano]

IMHO - this all comes down to which candidate is perceived as the most populist.

Agreed, but it will also matter how the status of the economy is come next year. If it improves, Obama wins re election. He will have closed Guantanamo Bay, ended the Iraqi war, ended torture, and stabilized the auto industry and hopefully for him, brought down unemployment. He gets Hillary on the ticket, and it's a good fight.

On the right, Palin will run the furthest to the right, thus eliminating all but one of the more moderate guys, (less conservative) they will have, like Romney and Pawlenty. It will come down to an extreme religious Palin vote or a more moderate if you will, Gingrich vote versus Obama. Palin is at 77% favorable among conservatives...but only 32% overall in the country. She can't possibly win.

[fredinator]

Why do you say Obama sucks? I hate that. That's just wrong but I guess loyalty is not your strong suit sadly. He has delivered change which is what he said he would do. The economy IS getting better--I use my husband as a barometer--he works for Air Products and last year (Jan '09) they drastically cut his overtime down to nothing since the businesses they deal with in Austin (Samsung, Motorola and others) cut everything to the core on their end... Slowly the work is starting to return and the businesses he deals with are expanding and now Air Products is going to be adding two new people in the next month or so... Anyhoo, I guess it sounds egotistical to use that as an example but his job changes exactly to how the economy is doing.

P.S. By expanding I mean that Samsung is adding people to their staff and they are going to hire 1000+ workers to construct a duplicate fabrication unit that already exists...

[conversationpc]

Why do you say Obama sucks? I hate that. That's just wrong but I guess loyalty is not your strong suit sadly.

I say kudos to people who aren't just party myrmidons. Both political parties embody what's wrong with the federal government.

[fredinator]

Well that makes me a mymidon or whatever the hell. I can/have never be/been a Republican even though there are some Republicans I actually admire/admired. The party philosophy or playbook for the last 40 years is what I totally and roundly reject. However, this doesn't change the fact that Obama promised change, he is delivering change, and a lot of people are afraid of change which is natural I guess.

Speaking of change, when Obama gets reelected I am really and truly hopeful that he legalizes drugs and throws out that stupid war on drugs declaration that has never worked.

[slucero]

Why do you say Obama sucks? I hate that. That's just wrong but I guess loyalty is not your strong suit sadly. He has delivered change which is what he said he would do. The economy IS getting better--I use my husband as a barometer--he works for Air Products and last year (Jan '09) they drastically cut his overtime down to nothing since the businesses they deal with in Austin (Samsung, Motorola and others) cut everything to the core on their end... Slowly the work is starting to return and the businesses he deals with are expanding and now Air Products is going to be adding two new people in the next month or so... Anyhoo, I guess it sounds egotistical to use that as an example but his job changes exactly to how the economy is doing.

P.S. By expanding I mean that Samsung is adding people to their staff and they are going to hire 1000+ workers to construct a duplicate fabrication unit that already exists...

Its one thing to say the economy is getting better, its another to see the governments own data that shows otherwise:

[donnaplease]

IMHO - this all comes down to which candidate is perceived as the most populist.

Agreed, but it will also matter how the status of the economy is come next year. If it improves, Obama wins re election. He will have closed Guantanamo Bay, ended the Iraqi war, ended torture, and stabilized the auto industry and hopefully for him, brought down unemployment. He gets Hillary on the ticket, and it's a good fight.

On the right, Palin will run the furthest to the right, thus eliminating all but one of the more moderate guys, (less conservative) they will have, like Romney and Pawlenty. It will come down to an extreme religious Palin vote or a more moderate if you will, Gingrich vote versus Obama. Palin is at 77% favorable among conservatives...but only 32% overall in the country. She can't possibly win.

The past year and a half has been HUGE for Hilary, IMO. She has portrayed herself in a new light, at least to me. Unless she does something to royally screw it up (like join the BO ticket in the next election) I would consider voting for her. I hope she doesn't sell out. IDK if she would seem so favorable to me if BO wasn't doing as poorly as he is, but as things are now I even more than before find her to be the more capable candidate.

[donnaplease]

In fact, as I'm sitting here thinking about it, if there's any job-swapping going on, I'd suggest Hilary take the top spot, BO the VP (he's good at raising money), and send Ol' Joe Six-Pack out for a walk. But that's just me.

[Jana]

IMHO - this all comes down to which candidate is perceived as the most populist.

Agreed, but it will also matter how the status of the economy is come next year. If it improves, Obama wins re election. He will have closed Guantanamo Bay, ended the Iraqi war, ended torture, and stabilized the auto industry and hopefully for him, brought down unemployment. He gets Hillary on the ticket, and it's a good fight.

On the right, Palin will run the furthest to the right, thus eliminating all but one of the more moderate guys, (less conservative) they will have, like Romney and Pawlenty. It will come down to an extreme religious Palin vote or a more moderate if you will, Gingrich vote versus Obama. Palin is at 77% favorable among conservatives...but only 32% overall in the country. She can't possibly win.

The past year and a half has been HUGE for Hilary, IMO. She has portrayed herself in a new light, at least to me. Unless she does something to royally screw it up (like join the BO ticket in the next election) I would consider voting for her. I hope she doesn't sell out. IDK if she would seem so favorable to me if BO wasn't doing as poorly as he is, but as things are now I even more than before find her to be the more capable candidate.

She said she will never run again.

[conversationpc]

Well that makes me a mymidon or whatever the hell. I can/have never be/been a Republican even though there are some Republicans I actually admire/admired. The party philosophy or playbook for the last 40 years is what I totally and roundly reject. However, this doesn't change the fact that Obama promised change, he is delivering change, and a lot of people are afraid of change which is natural I guess.

They're afraid of HIS change because they don't agree with it.

[fredinator]

In fact, as I'm sitting here thinking about it, if there's any job-swapping going on, I'd suggest Hilary take the top spot, BO the VP (he's good at raising money), and send Ol' Joe Six-Pack out for a walk. But that's just me.

She's very much pro-choice... Would that change your vote for her?

[fredinator]

Well that makes me a mymidon or whatever the hell. I can/have never be/been a Republican even though there are some Republicans I actually admire/admired. The party philosophy or playbook for the last 40 years is what I totally and roundly reject. However, this doesn't change the fact that Obama promised change, he is delivering change, and a lot of people are afraid of change which is natural I guess.

They're afraid of HIS change because they don't agree with it.

Probably more because they can't believe he's actually doing it. I still have faith.

[conversationpc]

Probably more because they can't believe he's actually doing it.

If that's the case, the people who voted for him are either stupid or just naive that he would actually do what he said he would do (in some cases anyway).

[fredinator]

So I guess you voted for McCain/Palin? To me that's pretty darn stupid, too.

[conversationpc]

So I guess you voted for McCain/Palin? To me that's pretty darn stupid, too.

I wasn't happy about it because I didn't think McCain was a much better choice than Obama but, yes, I did vote for him. By the way, I'm not saying Obama voters are/were stupid. I just think that a lot of people voted for him because of some feel-good attitude they thought Obama had and really paid no attention to what he was saying. That being said, the same thing probably happened with some voters for McCain as well, so there you go.

[fredinator]

Why do you say Obama sucks? I hate that. That's just wrong but I guess loyalty is not your strong suit sadly. He has delivered change which is what he said he would do. The economy IS getting better--I use my husband as a barometer--he works for Air Products and last year (Jan '09) they drastically cut his overtime down to nothing since the businesses they deal with in Austin (Samsung, Motorola and others) cut everything to the core on their end... Slowly the work is starting to return and the businesses he deals with are expanding and now Air Products is going to be adding two new people in the next month or so... Anyhoo, I guess it sounds egotistical to use that as an example but his job changes exactly to how the economy is doing.

P.S. By expanding I mean that Samsung is adding people to their staff and they are going to hire 1000+ workers to construct a duplicate fabrication unit that already exists...

Its one thing to say the economy is getting better, its another to see the governments own data that shows otherwise:

Obama never bullshitted about how long a recovery would take... I think it's going to be okay with time.

[RossValoryRocks]

Why do you say Obama sucks? I hate that. That's just wrong but I guess loyalty is not your strong suit sadly. He has delivered change which is what he said he would do. The economy IS getting better--I use my husband as a barometer--he works for Air Products and last year (Jan '09) they drastically cut his overtime down to nothing since the businesses they deal with in Austin (Samsung, Motorola and others) cut everything to the core on their end... Slowly the work is starting to return and the businesses he deals with are expanding and now Air Products is going to be adding two new people in the next month or so... Anyhoo, I guess it sounds egotistical to use that as an example but his job changes exactly to how the economy is doing.

P.S. By expanding I mean that Samsung is adding people to their staff and they are going to hire 1000+ workers to construct a duplicate fabrication unit that already exists...

Its one thing to say the economy is getting better, its another to see the governments own data that shows otherwise:

Obama never bullshitted about how long a recovery would take... I think it's going to be okay with time.

It would be ok with time no matter who was President...the problem is that usually the steeper the decline of a recession the stronger the economy bounces out of it...unless of course the government interferes...such as now and during the great depression.

[fredinator]

Why do you say Obama sucks? I hate that. That's just wrong but I guess loyalty is not your strong suit sadly. He has delivered change which is what he said he would do. The economy IS getting better--I use my husband as a barometer--he works for Air Products and last year (Jan '09) they drastically cut his overtime down to nothing since the businesses they deal with in Austin (Samsung, Motorola and others) cut everything to the core on their end... Slowly the work is starting to return and the businesses he deals with are expanding and now Air Products is going to be adding two new people in the next month or so... Anyhoo, I guess it sounds egotistical to use that as an example but his job changes exactly to how the economy is doing.

P.S. By expanding I mean that Samsung is adding people to their staff and they are going to hire 1000+ workers to construct a duplicate fabrication unit that already exists...

Its one thing to say the economy is getting better, its another to see the governments own data that shows otherwise:

Obama never bullshitted about how long a recovery would take... I think it's going to be okay with time.

It would be ok with time no matter who was President...the problem is that usually the steeper the decline of a recession the stronger the economy bounces out of it...unless of course the government interferes...such as now and during the great depression.

Sorry, but WTF?!? You wanna go through what we are/went through without any government interference? I DON'T!

[RossValoryRocks]

Why do you say Obama sucks? I hate that. That's just wrong but I guess loyalty is not your strong suit sadly. He has delivered change which is what he said he would do. The economy IS getting better--I use my husband as a barometer--he works for Air Products and last year (Jan '09) they drastically cut his overtime down to nothing since the businesses they deal with in Austin (Samsung, Motorola and others) cut everything to the core on their end... Slowly the work is starting to return and the businesses he deals with are expanding and now Air Products is going to be adding two new people in the next month or so... Anyhoo, I guess it sounds egotistical to use that as an example but his job changes exactly to how the economy is doing.

P.S. By expanding I mean that Samsung is adding people to their staff and they are going to hire 1000+ workers to construct a duplicate fabrication unit that already exists...

Its one thing to say the economy is getting better, its another to see the governments own data that shows otherwise:

Obama never bullshitted about how long a recovery would take... I think it's going to be okay with time.

It would be ok with time no matter who was President...the problem is that usually the steeper the decline of a recession the stronger the economy bounces out of it...unless of course the government interferes...such as now and during the great depression.

Sorry, but WTF?!? You wanna go through what we are/went through without any government interference? I DON'T!

Then you don't know economics or history.

A MINIMUM of interference...ok...just enough to stabilize...not enough to bankrupt the country!

[slucero]

just in case anybody wants to track where their money is going with this new Healthcare scheme...
http://www.house.gov/brady/pdf/Obamacare_Chart.pdf

[The_Noble_Cause]

just in case anybody wants to track where their money is going with this new Healthcare scheme...
http://www.house.gov/brady/pdf/Obamacare_Chart.pdf

From a Republican Congressman. Very objective. Just like Artist4Perry, you should really come out and admit you're a conservative and stop with the "both sides are evil" crap.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Then you don't know economics or history.

A MINIMUM of interference...ok...just enough to stabilize...not enough to bankrupt the country!

Isn't that what Obama has done? This administration hasn't undertaken any direct hiring programs like the WPA or CCC. Hell, congress can barely pass unemployment bennies.

[fredinator]

Uh oh, TNC, bringing up unemployment benefits to a herd of conservatives on this board is like waving a red cape at a gigantic bull, lol.

[slucero]

just in case anybody wants to track where their money is going with this new Healthcare scheme...
http://www.house.gov/brady/pdf/Obamacare_Chart.pdf

From a Republican Congressman. Very objective. Just like Artist4Perry, you should really come out and admit you're a conservative and stop with the "both sides are evil" crap.

Jesus dude... lighten up... take a chill pill...

I'll admit to being and American, loving my country and willing to fight for YOUR RIGHT to act like a shrieking woman... you can label me however you like..


Here's the Republican John Boehners map:




Here's the Dems response, provided by Jonathon Cohn..




Happy now princess?

[slucero]

Then you don't know economics or history.

A MINIMUM of interference...ok...just enough to stabilize...not enough to bankrupt the country!

Isn't that what Obama has done? This administration hasn't undertaken any direct hiring programs like the WPA or CCC. Hell, congress can barely pass unemployment bennies.

Really?


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/ ... -payrolls/

[The_Noble_Cause]

Then you don't know economics or history.

A MINIMUM of interference...ok...just enough to stabilize...not enough to bankrupt the country!

Isn't that what Obama has done? This administration hasn't undertaken any direct hiring programs like the WPA or CCC. Hell, congress can barely pass unemployment bennies.

Really?


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/ ... -payrolls/

What are those government jobs? If the spike is from census positions, those would be happening regardless of the recession. I asked if any direct hiring programs have been created in the model of FDR. To my knowledge, the answer is NO. Relative to the scale of the crisis (8 trillion dollar housing bubble going 'burst!'), the gov't response has been modest, with some of the TARP money already paid back.

[slucero]

Then you don't know economics or history.

A MINIMUM of interference...ok...just enough to stabilize...not enough to bankrupt the country!

Isn't that what Obama has done? This administration hasn't undertaken any direct hiring programs like the WPA or CCC. Hell, congress can barely pass unemployment bennies.

Really?


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/ ... -payrolls/

What are those government jobs? If the spike is from census positions, those would be happening regardless of the recession. I asked if any direct hiring programs have been created in the model of FDR. To my knowledge, the answer is NO. Relative to the scale of the crisis (8 trillion dollar housing bubble going 'burst!'), the gov't response has been modest, with some of the TARP money already paid back.

Increasing government employment isn't direct hiring? And more important.. why O' why does the government need to increase hiring in the face of declining tax revenues and increasing unemployment nationwide?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Increasing government employment isn't direct hiring? And more important..

You are either being deliberately obtuse or are just an asshole. Census-taking happens every ten years. Those jobs were not created ad-hoc to combat this recession. Those hirings would've happened in economic good times or bad. No comparison to FDR's job programs, which was Stu's original example.

why O' why does the government need to increase hiring in the face of declining tax revenues and increasing unemployment nationwide?

Because the private sector won't spend and people need to eat. All this hand-wringing over the deficit in the short-term is nonsense. Like Monker said, the GOP has conveniently re-claimed the mantle of fiscal prudency just in time for a Democratic presidency and the greatest economic meltdown in 100 years. Funny how that works.