President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:29 am

Rockindeano wrote:Olberman is great. Biased? Sure. Smarter than anyone of Fixed Noise? Absolutely.

Fuck you Cons.


Getting grouchy now huh? I can't WAIT to see what you are like when the Republicans take the Senate, boost their House majority and kick Obama out in 2012. You might litterally melt down.

Just a puddle of Dean, oozing on the floor! LOL j/k


"Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
And another one gone
And another one gone
Another one bites the dust
Hey, I'm gonna get you too
Another one bites the dust"


I notice, you weren't bitching when Juan Williams lost his job under similar circumstances...
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:31 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
I notice, you weren't bitching when Juan Williams lost his job under similar circumstances...


Ok, but I was. That was a bullshit deal and so is this.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:31 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:How is that a wasteful personal injury lawsuit? Are you telling me you wouldn't sue in case like that??? He got his ass handed to him, and those slaps didn't look like they were fake (It was funny to watch though). I hope he got millions.

The difference is people sue doctors for not being God. "The doctor operated and my husband still died, even though he said he only had a 2% chance of surviving the surgery, so I sued for $25 million dollars and won" that is a frivolous lawsuit versus, "The doctor left a medical instrument in my husbands body, and he died."

BIG difference that you are glossing over here. WILLFUL negligence, and assault versus trying to pull off a medical miracle, and still getting sued, and a medical mistake.

You do see the differences don't you?


Seemed like a light slap to me. I would have decked the guy back and I most certainly would NOT have sued.


The dude was an pro-wrestler...fake or not...Stossel wouldn't have stood a chance...and neither would you, me, Deano, 7 for that matter...he all of us combined would have been thumped.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:32 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
I notice, you weren't bitching when Juan Williams lost his job under similar circumstances...


Ok, but I was. That was a bullshit deal and so is this.


BOTH of them violated their employment contracts and paid the price. As ALWAYS people need to remember to read the fine print!
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Postby Saint John » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:35 am

Rockindeano wrote:Olberman is great. Biased? Sure. Smarter than anyone of Fixed Noise? Absolutely.

Fuck you Cons.


It just kills you that the vast majority of Republicans don't need free shit handed to them, like your typical inner city trash ball, government dependent democrat does. :lol: The winning formula is really easy. Educate, work hard, earn, save and live well. 8)
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Postby slucero » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:49 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
slucero wrote:...[Krugman] is pretty staunchly in the "the problem of "too much debt and too much spending", can be solved with "more debt and more spending" camp.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/06/opini ... ugman.html

The economic moral is clear: when the economy is deeply depressed, the usual rules don’t apply. Austerity is self-defeating: when everyone tries to pay down debt at the same time, the result is depression and deflation, and debt problems grow even worse. And conversely, it is possible — indeed, necessary — for the nation as a whole to spend its way out of debt: a temporary surge of deficit spending, on a sufficient scale, can cure problems brought on by past excesses.


You obviously don't read alot of Krugman. More spending is the prescription right now because we are up against what he calls the "zero bound." In other words, with short-term interest rates already low, conventional monetary policy is insufficient. In your own quote, Krugman emphasizes that: "the usual rules don't apply." Krugman has never said deficit spending is the solution to EVERY situation.


slucero wrote:There's a reason that Germany is solvent today.. they embraced austerity and defied current Treasury Secretary Geithner and outgoing Director of the White House National Economic Council Larry Summers calls for more stimulus... i.e... "Keynesian"

German Chancellor Merkel even said the following...

"The fault, ultimately lies with misguided efforts in the US, both by the government and the Federal Reserve, to re-start artificially the economy after September 11 by pumping ever-cheaper money into the financial system. “We must look at the causes of this crisis. It happened because we were living beyond our means. After the Asian crisis [of 1997] and after 9/11, governments encouraged risk-taking in order to boost growth. We cannot repeat this mistake. We must anchor growth on firmer ground.”


Wow. This couldn’t be more wrong. Germany is doing ok because 1) they did not have a housing bubble 2) they actually still have a thriving export economy and 3) most importantly, they embraced socialist policies of work sharing, where the government picks up the tab for the unemployed. Larry Summer is not a liberal economist; he is an anti-regulation Wall Street titan who explicitly said that the stimulus was only to be an insurance policy against the risk of rising unemployment. Real Keynesians were proposing a stimulus big enough to plug a two trillion dollar output gap. We didn't get anything close to that.



I read enough Krugmanm to know I disagree with him. Over stimulate and then try to reign it in... History also disagrees with him.

Funny how Larry Summers said.. "kickstarting growth should take precedence over ironing out so-called global imbalances and that this meant everyone had to do everything to boost demand."

"everything to boost demand".. sounds pretty Keynesian to me....

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:00 am

slucero wrote:I read enough Krugmanm to know I disagree with him. Over stimulate and then try to reign it in... History also disagrees with him.


No, it doesn't. WW2 remains the touchstone for all Keyensian policies. If war spending can stimulate an economy, so too can massive spending on a similar scale. Be it on infrastructure or whatever.

slucero wrote:Funny how Larry Summers said.. "kickstarting growth should take precedence over ironing out so-called global imbalances and that this meant everyone had to do everything to boost demand."

"everything to boost demand".. sounds pretty Keynesian to me....


Well, it shouldn't. Be it in the form of government spending or tax cuts, boosting demand is a targeted economic goal that's not exclusive to Keynesians.
Next you'll be telling me Robert Rubin is also a wild-eyed liberal. Wall Street genuflecting whores like him, Greenspan, Geithner, and Summers got us in this mess.
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:06 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:How is that a wasteful personal injury lawsuit? Are you telling me you wouldn't sue in case like that??? He got his ass handed to him, and those slaps didn't look like they were fake (It was funny to watch though). I hope he got millions.

The difference is people sue doctors for not being God. "The doctor operated and my husband still died, even though he said he only had a 2% chance of surviving the surgery, so I sued for $25 million dollars and won" that is a frivolous lawsuit versus, "The doctor left a medical instrument in my husbands body, and he died."

BIG difference that you are glossing over here. WILLFUL negligence, and assault versus trying to pull off a medical miracle, and still getting sued, and a medical mistake.

You do see the differences don't you?


Seemed like a light slap to me. I would have decked the guy back and I most certainly would NOT have sued.
if I remember correctly Stossel had his ear drum busted. Imagine what that would do to your equilibrium.

I'm sure you would have gotten into a brawl with a guy 3 times your size in that condition though.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:08 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:No, it doesn't. WW2 remains the touchstone for all Keyensian policies. If war spending can stimulate an economy, so too can massive spending on a similar scale. Be it on infrastructure or whatever.


No it can't...Look at all the New Deal programs that didn't do shit for employment or what have you. Many economist have argued that had FDR left well enough alone that the Great Depression would have been over by '35 or '36, not until '39-'40. In addition the war spending only stimulated the economy because the draft ensured full employment, so to speak, and it allowed for women to join the work force in massive numbers, once the soldiers came home, POOF it all went away, despite still fairly high government spending.

You cannot tax and spend to prosperity...it just doesn't work in reality. Keyensian economic theory is good, but many things in theory look good but in actual practice don't work because there is no way to actually account for all the variables that arise.
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:12 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:Olberman is great. Biased? Sure. Smarter than anyone of Fixed Noise? Absolutely.

Fuck you Cons.


Getting grouchy now huh? I can't WAIT to see what you are like when the Republicans take the Senate, boost their House majority and kick Obama out in 2012. You might litterally melt down.

Just a puddle of Dean, oozing on the floor! LOL j/k

Yup. Don't tell Dean but in '12 Dems have to defend 21 seats while the GOP only has to defend 10.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:34 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:No it can't...Look at all the New Deal programs that didn't do shit for employment or what have you. Many economist have argued that had FDR left well enough alone that the Great Depression would have been over by '35 or '36, not until '39-'40.

As I'm sure you know, the Depression was actually two recessions. Many economists have argued that austerity policies undertaken by FDR in response to critics led to the second 1937 recession.

RossValoryRocks wrote:In addition the war spending only stimulated the economy because the draft ensured full employment, so to speak, and it allowed for women to join the work force in massive numbers, once the soldiers came home, POOF it all went away, despite still fairly high government spending.


Those jobs may have went away, but the US postwar economy was strong. And not just because we bombed the shit out of our competitors.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:36 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote: And not just because we bombed the shit out of our competitors.


LOL THAT is one of funniest comments you have ever made...not disagreeing here...the thought just struck me as funny...we bombed the shit out everyone...and every other country owed us a TON of money...that helped as well...
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:50 am

Fact Finder wrote:
TV Newser: “Insiders” say Olbermann won’t be back

Olbermann, who signed a four-year, $30 million contract extension in Nov. 2008, has left MSNBC once before.

In the late 1990′s, Olbermann had a program on MSNBC called “The Big Show.” In 1998, he left the network after protesting the incessant coverage of the Monica Lewinsky scandal. He ended up joining , of all places, Fox Sports. Olbermann was wooed back to MSNBC during the run-up to the Iraq War when MSNBC had a show called “Countdown: Iraq” hosted by Lester Holt. That show morphed into “Countdown with Keith Olbermann.”

Insiders we’ve talked to say Olbermann won’t be back. The question is whether he’ll leave or MSNBC keeps him off the air.



The big question now: If Olbermann walks, who replaces him? Chris Hayes of the Nation was set to guest host tonight, but that idea was quickly scrapped. As of this writing, I’m not sure who’ll be sitting in, but I can think of an obvious replacement — one who’ll soon be available to work as often as MSNBC needs him. Dude — is it time?


Given his noted primadonna behavior, I wouldn't be surprised if Olbermann walks off the job (again). CNN tried to bring Keith & Countdown to the network a year ago. Maybe he'll end up there.
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Postby Don » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:54 am

Who will hire Olbermann If he goes? Is he the Randy Moss of political media?
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:17 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:]No, it doesn't. WW2 remains the touchstone for all Keyensian policies. If war spending can stimulate an economy, so too can massive spending on a similar scale. Be it on infrastructure or whatever.


One can perhaps argue the War is sometimes necessaryon the basis that we live in a Hobbesian world, it is the health of the state, and only serves to centralize power and destroys private economic growth. what gets spent fixing broken shot out windows couldbe invested elsewhere.

Govt spending peacetime or wartime doesnt work - heres a reason for every day of the week

1. It needs to be financed, and when the govt finances there is less finance available for private companies . BTW this is true even when interest rates are near zero - if the government wont have money from the banks, banks will go looking for someone else to have their money - a private business.

2. alternative investement losses when govt taxes a dollar to spend that's one less dollar in the private sector that can be invested otherwise

3. Negative multiplier / bueracracy costs - when you spend one dollar in on stimulus another dollar gets spent upon regulating it, organising it, managing the acquistion process, ect. Big bueracracies have big costs

4. Rent seeking - there are numerous people who will go out looking to rake in some cash on a government contract, deliver a substandard job (or work to the minimum spec of of the contract add no economic value) and then go on to the next contract, looking for another rent seeking opportunity. Theres a stack of contractors in the DC Metro area that make their living just this way.

5. misallocation and market distortion free markets have an inbuilt information management system which helps economic agents make choices about what the best economic choices are. This is comletely skewed when governments spend and try to decise where best to put money - they have no mechanism to do this. Goverments spend in the wrong places on the wrong things (things that dont create value )

6 disincetivisation of creative productivity. If you get a govt contract you work to spec and dont innovate. Get a govt contract you play it safe - do whats onthe spec. Work in private industry you innovate your product, slap the bells and whistles on it

7. enabling of bad economic choices Handing out farm subsidies and then telling farmers to dump their milk in the ditch is a good example.
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Postby conversationpc » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:00 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I’m all for network standards and practices, but this is a bum deal. Public and private citizens should be allowed to make private donations to whoever they choose.
Remind me, what was the fallout over Fox News donating $1 million dollars to the Republican Governors Association? Still waiting on that, aren't we? For that matter, how about their news anchors actively promoting the Tea Parties and directing their viewers to make political donations? Leave it to you, FF, to brainlessly gloat corporate censorship. :roll:


I agree. Olbermann is not an unbiased journalist. He's a commentator who has a show that is OPINION-BASED, for crying out loud. Though I think it's kinda funny that he's been suspended considering all the things he's said about Beck likely getting fired, I don't think he deserves to be suspended.
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Postby hoagiepete » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:13 am

I just hope they don't just drop a load of elephant shit.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:26 pm

Umm...OK, LiePaster. Never mind that the GOP is still, amazingly, more unpopular than the Democrats. Your boy Bush would have lost in 2000 based on the popular vote, and then none of this shit ever would have happened.
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Postby conversationpc » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:04 am

Seven Wishes wrote:Umm...OK, LiePaster. Never mind that the GOP is still, amazingly, more unpopular than the Democrats. Your boy Bush would have lost in 2000 based on the popular vote, and then none of this shit ever would have happened.


As was noted earlier, if the poll you posted is true, 44% to 41% is still within the margin of error, which is typically 3% to 5%. That's hardly a mandate.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:51 am

Agreed. I was just trying to rile up FF.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:01 pm

Well, then you're about as short-sighted as Stevie Wonder, and have the intuition of a clam. Unless the no-ideas GOP discovers a magic elixir for the disaster it was primarily responsible for creating, finds a viable leader for a run at the Presidency in 2012, and can find a way to stem off the recovering economy before the end of next year...and finds a way to subdue the radical Tea Baggers before they self-destruct in the Republicans' ever-diminishing tent...your "high" will be as short-lived as the last toke off the proverbial bong...as much of a long-term guarantee as the Italian Parliament.
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Postby slucero » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:59 am

This is a pretty good description of where we're headed...



Guest Post: Alert: QE II Has Lit the Fuse
Guest Post: Alert: QE II Has Lit the Fuse | zero hedge
From Chris Martenson


For a very long time I have been calling for, expecting and otherwise anticipating the day that the Federal Reserve would begin openly monetizing government debt. I knew the day would come intellectually, but in my heart I hoped it wouldn't. But with the Fed's recent decision to directly monetize the next 8 months of federal deficit spending, that day has finally arrived. I have to confess, while my prediction has proven accurate, I’m still stunned the Fed actually did it.

In this report I examine the risks that this new path presents, what match(es) may finally ignite the decades-old pile of dry fuel, what the outcomes are likely to be, and what we can and should be doing in preparation.



How is this Quantitative Easing (QE) different from the prior QE?


There are two main points of departure between the two QE programs:

* The level of global support for such efforts
* Where the money was/is targeted

Let's take the second point first.

QE I consisted of all sorts of liquidity efforts that went by various acronyms, but the main act was the accumulation of some $1.25 trillion in MBS and agency debt. Some might note that taking MBS paper off the hands of financial institutions, which then bought treasuries with the cash, is little different than the recently announced QE II program because at the end of the day, money was printed and Treasuries were bought. In this regard, they're right.

But let's be clear about something: the first QE effort had the specific aim of repairing damaged bank balance sheets. That is, banks and other financial institutions had made some colossally poor and risky financial moves that didn't work out for them and needed some help, and the Fed was more than happy to oblige by handing them free money to patch up their losses.

Of course they didn't do this outright by saying, "Here take this money!"; they did it somewhat sneakily. But when the Fed hands you huge piles of money (for your dodgy debt) and then let's you park that very same money in an interest bearing account at the Fed, there's really no difference between that and just handing banks free money. No difference at all. If the Fed ever offers you free money that you can then park in an interest bearing account with the Fed, you should take them up on it, and you should do it as much as they will allow.

Indeed, that's exactly what happened. These parked funds are called "excess reserves" and this chart clearly displays the massive program undertaken by the banks and the Fed:

Image

Now, it's also true that the Fed does not pay a lot of interest on this money, just 0.25%, but on a trillion dollars that pencils out to some $2.5 billion a year, handed straight over to the banks. I call this program "stealth QE" because it is nothing more than printing money and handing it over to the banks with a slight bit of complexity thrown in just to put the dogs off the scent. A couple of billion may not sound like much these days, but I raise it to illustrate the many and creative ways that QE I was about getting the banks back to health, and not much else.

So QE I (and the ‘stealth QE’ program) was directly aimed at banks to help them repair their balance sheets and make them whole on their terrible decisions and losses. It turned out, though, that fixing the banks did absolutely nothing for Main Street. The rest of the economy remained mired in a rut, with banks either unable or unwilling to make additional loans. They kept their QE lotto winnings and parked them with the Fed.

QE II, then is about getting thin-air money to the government which, the Fed rightly assumes, will immediately spend that money and push it out into the economy. Here's how the head of the Dallas Fed, Richard Fisher put it in a recent talk he gave:


A Bridge to Fiscal Sanity?
The Federal Reserve will buy $110 billion a month in Treasuries, an amount that, annualized, represents the projected deficit of the federal government for next year. For the next eight months, the nation’s central bank will be monetizing the federal debt
.



This is risky business. We know that history is littered with the economic carcasses of nations that incorporated this as a regular central bank practice.
There it is in black and white. You might want to read it a couple of times to let it sink in. The Fed is directly monetizing the next eight months of excess(ive) spending by the federal government and is doing it despite being perfectly aware of the extent to which history is littered with the economic carcasses of those who have traveled this path before.

Presumably we are supposed to console ourselves with the idea that the Fed will be successful where others have failed, and sometimes failed miserably. Yes, we are talking about the same Fed that fueled that last two destructive bubbles by keeping interest rates too low for too long, failed to see the housing bubble as late as 2007 for what it was, and which apparently entirely lacked the capability to foresee any of the current mess. That Fed.

The one run by the gentleman who said this to the House Budget Committee on June 3, 2009,

“Either cuts in spending or increases in taxes will be necessary to stabilize the fiscal situation…The Federal Reserve will not monetize the debt.
~ Ben Bernanke



In summary, the difference between QE I and QE II is that QE I went primarily to the banks and QE II is going directly to the government. While this may be something of a semantic difference, it shows that the Fed is changing its strategy again. We might ask: why this shift and why now?



How is QE II being viewed outside of the US?

In a word, poorly.

The German finance minster called the Fed's application of US monetary policy "clueless" and argued that the Fed decision would "increase the insecurity in the world economy."

China was predictably unhappy too, but initially used more diplomatic language:

Xinhua: G-20 Should Set Up Mechanism To Monitor Reserve Currency Issuers
BEIJING (Dow Jones)--China's state-run Xinhua News Agency published a commentary on Tuesday calling for the Group of 20 industrial and developing economies to supervise the issuance of international reserve currencies, and harshly criticized the U.S. Federal Reserve's new round of quantitative easing.
The G-20 should "set up a new mechanism that effectively monitors the issuer of the international reserve currency, especially when it is not able to carry out responsible currency policies," Xinhua said, making an apparent reference to the U.S. as the issuer of the dominant reserve currency.
"Considering the influence of the policy moves in the major international reserve currencies on the global economy, it is necessary for the issuer of the international reserve currency to report to and communicate with the G-20 Group before it makes major policy shifts."



All of the above is loosely coded diplomatic speak for "The US really bummed us out here, they should have stuck to the agreements we thought we had after the Pittsburg meeting. Going off-script like this was really not appreciated. We think an intervention is needed here."


Later, an advisor to the Chinese central bank went further and called the US actions "absurd."

PBOC Academic Adviser Questions Dollar’s Global Role
Nov. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Li Daokui, an academic adviser to China’s central bank, said it could be seen as “absurd” that the dollar remains a reserve currency after the financial crisis.


Here are a few other selected expressions of dismay from around the world:

United States receive criticism from all sides because the decision to print money
U.S. decision to pump 600 billion dollars into the economy has sparked a wave of strong disapproval. World leaders, who are preparing for the G20 summit in Seoul this week, warns that the move will complicate U.S. global economic recovery.


G20 tensions rise over the future of the global economy
The US last week stoked the simmering tensions by unveiling plans for another $600bn (£370bn) of quantitative easing (QE), on top of the $1.7 trillion already in place. The dollar crashed in what is being seen as the latest round of competitive devaluations, as nations seek to debase their currencies to help domestic industry.
Brazil retaliated by buying dollars. Xia Bin, a member of the Chinese central bank's monetary policy committee, branded the US stimulus plan "abusive" and warned it could spark a new global downturn. German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble accused the US of breaking the promise made at June's G20 in Toronto, saying he would "speak critically about this at the G20 summit in South Korea."
Just two weeks earlier, G20 finance ministers at the warm-up summit in Gyeongju, South Korea, had pledged to refrain from competitive devaluation and Tim Geithner, the US Treasury Secretary, had promised the US would retain its "strong dollar" policy. At Seoul, the US will be facing accusations of empty rhetoric.
The harmonious language of hope at the Pittsburgh summit has now given way to something brazenly belligerent. The Brazilian President, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, has said he will go to the G20 meeting in Seoul ready "to fight." For President Obama, who has just lost a bruising midterm election battle, it will mean another painful encounter.


Greece Hits Out At Money-Printing Nations
Speaking on Jeff Randall Live, George Papaconstantinou warned quantitative easing only serves to stoke up inflation.
"You get inflation. You get a situation that's out of control. People lose their purchasing power. It doesn't get you very far," he said.



In summary, QE II has been described by several major trading partners as "clueless," "abusive," "absurd," and even resulted in a lecture from Greece on the subject of printing. By the time you are getting lectured by Greece on monetary actions it might be time for a bit of self-reflection.

It is not too strong to suggest that something of a tipping point has been reached in regards to how the US is perceived as a leader on financial and monetary matters.



Why this is important

Okay, so the US's international friends are a little upset with the US for deciding to print up the better part of a trillion dollars out of thin air. What's the big deal?

The big deal here is that the OECD countries have a monster borrowing bill set for next year. There needs to be some level of cooperation and fair play is going to be required in order to pull this off:


$10.2 Trillion in Global Borrowing
Next year, fifteen major developed-country governments, including the U.S., Japan, the U.K., Spain and Greece, will have to raise some $10.2 trillion to repay maturing bonds and finance their budget deficits, according to estimates from the International Monetary Fund. That’s up 7% from this year, and equals 27% of their combined annual economic out
put.


Image

Just ponder those numbers for a bit. The average borrowing across 15 major developed countries is 27 percent of GDP(!). Ask yourself how dependent the entire OECD world is on a smoothly operating financial system in order to merely function next year.

Having the perception out there that the US is being run by clueless (or 'abusive') individuals is not going to help the situation much.

In order for the requisite levels of borrowing to be pulled off in a smooth and uninterrupted fashion, there can't be any hits to confidence and no major disruptions can happen. Everything has to run with clockwork precision. It is against this backdrop that I view the profoundly undiplomatic statements directed at the US as quite a bit more serious than some other observers.



Conclusion

By choosing the path of money printing (instead of austerity like the UK), the Fed has decidedly placed the US on a very risky course. I see the outcomes are almost binary: either this works or it doesn't.

If this gamble works, business will pick up, unemployment will drop, tax revenues will flow again to the states and federal government, the sun will continue to rise in the east and roses will bloom in the spring.

If the gamble fails? There we can envision an enormous devaluation event for the US dollar and the Fed having to choose between defending the dollar (via rising interest rates) or preventing the federal government from a fiscal emergency brought about as a consequence of rising interest rates. And by "fiscal emergency" I mean being forced to slash expenditures by as much as 50% in order to service rapidly escalating interest carrying costs on the short term portion of the fiscal debt load. But that's a death spiral because cutting government spending is the same as cutting GDP (it's practically 1:1) and every cut to GDP leads to lower revenues which will necessitate more expenditure cutting, etc. and so forth until 'the bottom' is reached.

I wish there was some sort of middle ground on this one, but I can't quite see it. Either the Fed's efforts work or they don't. Let's hope for success.

In truth, I‘ve long predicted that the day would arrive when the Fed would monetize government debt, but I hoped that it would never come. Because hope alone is a terrible investment strategy, I prepared for this event years ago by accumulating gold and silver as the core of my portfolio.

But now the rules have changed again, we are on a slippery slope, and gold and silver were always meant to be my "transition elements" put there to help shepherd my wealth through the transition period as the world's fascination shifted from "paper" to "things."

Now that we're "almost there" in terms of the required shift in perception necessary to call an end to one period (the "king dollar" period) and mark the beginning of another, it's time to begin considering the places, timing and ways that these transition elements can be redeployed to take advantage of the second part of this story.

In particular, concerned minds are looking for answers to questions about what might happen next and how to insulate oneself from monetary madness.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:18 pm

As a percentage of the GDP, the QE2 is relatively small and, I believe, won't have much impact one way or the other. I don't think it will have the desired effect because unregulated banks no longer make loans based upon their reserves.

A multi-millionaire (I mention this because he had made millions in spite of being extremely compassionate) broker friend of mine explained quantitative easing in layman's terms to me the other day. I'll paraphrase.

Hyperinflation only occurs when there is: 1) excessive unemployment (i.e. 25% or greater), 2) a marked decrease in tax revenue (hence the plan to tax the rich at...gasp...2002 rates of almost 3% higher, heaven forbid), 3) infrastrurcture collapses, and 4) productive capacity is zero.

None of those conditions exist or will come to pass. In the end, the Fed will get a passing grade for this, as it won't hurt or help at all.
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Postby Monker » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:19 pm

You mean to another post? That was WAY too long.


slucero wrote:This is a pretty good description of where we're headed...



Guest Post: Alert: QE II Has Lit the Fuse
Guest Post: Alert: QE II Has Lit the Fuse | zero hedge
From Chris Martenson


For a very long time I have been calling for, expecting and otherwise anticipating the day that the Federal Reserve would begin openly monetizing government debt. I knew the day would come intellectually, but in my heart I hoped it wouldn't. But with the Fed's recent decision to directly monetize the next 8 months of federal deficit spending, that day has finally arrived. I have to confess, while my prediction has proven accurate, I’m still stunned the Fed actually did it.

In this report I examine the risks that this new path presents, what match(es) may finally ignite the decades-old pile of dry fuel, what the outcomes are likely to be, and what we can and should be doing in preparation.



How is this Quantitative Easing (QE) different from the prior QE?


There are two main points of departure between the two QE programs:

* The level of global support for such efforts
* Where the money was/is targeted

Let's take the second point first.

QE I consisted of all sorts of liquidity efforts that went by various acronyms, but the main act was the accumulation of some $1.25 trillion in MBS and agency debt. Some might note that taking MBS paper off the hands of financial institutions, which then bought treasuries with the cash, is little different than the recently announced QE II program because at the end of the day, money was printed and Treasuries were bought. In this regard, they're right.

But let's be clear about something: the first QE effort had the specific aim of repairing damaged bank balance sheets. That is, banks and other financial institutions had made some colossally poor and risky financial moves that didn't work out for them and needed some help, and the Fed was more than happy to oblige by handing them free money to patch up their losses.

Of course they didn't do this outright by saying, "Here take this money!"; they did it somewhat sneakily. But when the Fed hands you huge piles of money (for your dodgy debt) and then let's you park that very same money in an interest bearing account at the Fed, there's really no difference between that and just handing banks free money. No difference at all. If the Fed ever offers you free money that you can then park in an interest bearing account with the Fed, you should take them up on it, and you should do it as much as they will allow.

Indeed, that's exactly what happened. These parked funds are called "excess reserves" and this chart clearly displays the massive program undertaken by the banks and the Fed:

Image

Now, it's also true that the Fed does not pay a lot of interest on this money, just 0.25%, but on a trillion dollars that pencils out to some $2.5 billion a year, handed straight over to the banks. I call this program "stealth QE" because it is nothing more than printing money and handing it over to the banks with a slight bit of complexity thrown in just to put the dogs off the scent. A couple of billion may not sound like much these days, but I raise it to illustrate the many and creative ways that QE I was about getting the banks back to health, and not much else.

So QE I (and the ‘stealth QE’ program) was directly aimed at banks to help them repair their balance sheets and make them whole on their terrible decisions and losses. It turned out, though, that fixing the banks did absolutely nothing for Main Street. The rest of the economy remained mired in a rut, with banks either unable or unwilling to make additional loans. They kept their QE lotto winnings and parked them with the Fed.

QE II, then is about getting thin-air money to the government which, the Fed rightly assumes, will immediately spend that money and push it out into the economy. Here's how the head of the Dallas Fed, Richard Fisher put it in a recent talk he gave:


A Bridge to Fiscal Sanity?
The Federal Reserve will buy $110 billion a month in Treasuries, an amount that, annualized, represents the projected deficit of the federal government for next year. For the next eight months, the nation’s central bank will be monetizing the federal debt
.



This is risky business. We know that history is littered with the economic carcasses of nations that incorporated this as a regular central bank practice.
There it is in black and white. You might want to read it a couple of times to let it sink in. The Fed is directly monetizing the next eight months of excess(ive) spending by the federal government and is doing it despite being perfectly aware of the extent to which history is littered with the economic carcasses of those who have traveled this path before.

Presumably we are supposed to console ourselves with the idea that the Fed will be successful where others have failed, and sometimes failed miserably. Yes, we are talking about the same Fed that fueled that last two destructive bubbles by keeping interest rates too low for too long, failed to see the housing bubble as late as 2007 for what it was, and which apparently entirely lacked the capability to foresee any of the current mess. That Fed.

The one run by the gentleman who said this to the House Budget Committee on June 3, 2009,

“Either cuts in spending or increases in taxes will be necessary to stabilize the fiscal situation…The Federal Reserve will not monetize the debt.
~ Ben Bernanke



In summary, the difference between QE I and QE II is that QE I went primarily to the banks and QE II is going directly to the government. While this may be something of a semantic difference, it shows that the Fed is changing its strategy again. We might ask: why this shift and why now?



How is QE II being viewed outside of the US?

In a word, poorly.

The German finance minster called the Fed's application of US monetary policy "clueless" and argued that the Fed decision would "increase the insecurity in the world economy."

China was predictably unhappy too, but initially used more diplomatic language:

Xinhua: G-20 Should Set Up Mechanism To Monitor Reserve Currency Issuers
BEIJING (Dow Jones)--China's state-run Xinhua News Agency published a commentary on Tuesday calling for the Group of 20 industrial and developing economies to supervise the issuance of international reserve currencies, and harshly criticized the U.S. Federal Reserve's new round of quantitative easing.
The G-20 should "set up a new mechanism that effectively monitors the issuer of the international reserve currency, especially when it is not able to carry out responsible currency policies," Xinhua said, making an apparent reference to the U.S. as the issuer of the dominant reserve currency.
"Considering the influence of the policy moves in the major international reserve currencies on the global economy, it is necessary for the issuer of the international reserve currency to report to and communicate with the G-20 Group before it makes major policy shifts."



All of the above is loosely coded diplomatic speak for "The US really bummed us out here, they should have stuck to the agreements we thought we had after the Pittsburg meeting. Going off-script like this was really not appreciated. We think an intervention is needed here."


Later, an advisor to the Chinese central bank went further and called the US actions "absurd."

PBOC Academic Adviser Questions Dollar’s Global Role
Nov. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Li Daokui, an academic adviser to China’s central bank, said it could be seen as “absurd” that the dollar remains a reserve currency after the financial crisis.


Here are a few other selected expressions of dismay from around the world:

United States receive criticism from all sides because the decision to print money
U.S. decision to pump 600 billion dollars into the economy has sparked a wave of strong disapproval. World leaders, who are preparing for the G20 summit in Seoul this week, warns that the move will complicate U.S. global economic recovery.


G20 tensions rise over the future of the global economy
The US last week stoked the simmering tensions by unveiling plans for another $600bn (£370bn) of quantitative easing (QE), on top of the $1.7 trillion already in place. The dollar crashed in what is being seen as the latest round of competitive devaluations, as nations seek to debase their currencies to help domestic industry.
Brazil retaliated by buying dollars. Xia Bin, a member of the Chinese central bank's monetary policy committee, branded the US stimulus plan "abusive" and warned it could spark a new global downturn. German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble accused the US of breaking the promise made at June's G20 in Toronto, saying he would "speak critically about this at the G20 summit in South Korea."
Just two weeks earlier, G20 finance ministers at the warm-up summit in Gyeongju, South Korea, had pledged to refrain from competitive devaluation and Tim Geithner, the US Treasury Secretary, had promised the US would retain its "strong dollar" policy. At Seoul, the US will be facing accusations of empty rhetoric.
The harmonious language of hope at the Pittsburgh summit has now given way to something brazenly belligerent. The Brazilian President, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, has said he will go to the G20 meeting in Seoul ready "to fight." For President Obama, who has just lost a bruising midterm election battle, it will mean another painful encounter.


Greece Hits Out At Money-Printing Nations
Speaking on Jeff Randall Live, George Papaconstantinou warned quantitative easing only serves to stoke up inflation.
"You get inflation. You get a situation that's out of control. People lose their purchasing power. It doesn't get you very far," he said.



In summary, QE II has been described by several major trading partners as "clueless," "abusive," "absurd," and even resulted in a lecture from Greece on the subject of printing. By the time you are getting lectured by Greece on monetary actions it might be time for a bit of self-reflection.

It is not too strong to suggest that something of a tipping point has been reached in regards to how the US is perceived as a leader on financial and monetary matters.



Why this is important

Okay, so the US's international friends are a little upset with the US for deciding to print up the better part of a trillion dollars out of thin air. What's the big deal?

The big deal here is that the OECD countries have a monster borrowing bill set for next year. There needs to be some level of cooperation and fair play is going to be required in order to pull this off:


$10.2 Trillion in Global Borrowing
Next year, fifteen major developed-country governments, including the U.S., Japan, the U.K., Spain and Greece, will have to raise some $10.2 trillion to repay maturing bonds and finance their budget deficits, according to estimates from the International Monetary Fund. That’s up 7% from this year, and equals 27% of their combined annual economic out
put.


Image

Just ponder those numbers for a bit. The average borrowing across 15 major developed countries is 27 percent of GDP(!). Ask yourself how dependent the entire OECD world is on a smoothly operating financial system in order to merely function next year.

Having the perception out there that the US is being run by clueless (or 'abusive') individuals is not going to help the situation much.

In order for the requisite levels of borrowing to be pulled off in a smooth and uninterrupted fashion, there can't be any hits to confidence and no major disruptions can happen. Everything has to run with clockwork precision. It is against this backdrop that I view the profoundly undiplomatic statements directed at the US as quite a bit more serious than some other observers.



Conclusion

By choosing the path of money printing (instead of austerity like the UK), the Fed has decidedly placed the US on a very risky course. I see the outcomes are almost binary: either this works or it doesn't.

If this gamble works, business will pick up, unemployment will drop, tax revenues will flow again to the states and federal government, the sun will continue to rise in the east and roses will bloom in the spring.

If the gamble fails? There we can envision an enormous devaluation event for the US dollar and the Fed having to choose between defending the dollar (via rising interest rates) or preventing the federal government from a fiscal emergency brought about as a consequence of rising interest rates. And by "fiscal emergency" I mean being forced to slash expenditures by as much as 50% in order to service rapidly escalating interest carrying costs on the short term portion of the fiscal debt load. But that's a death spiral because cutting government spending is the same as cutting GDP (it's practically 1:1) and every cut to GDP leads to lower revenues which will necessitate more expenditure cutting, etc. and so forth until 'the bottom' is reached.

I wish there was some sort of middle ground on this one, but I can't quite see it. Either the Fed's efforts work or they don't. Let's hope for success.

In truth, I‘ve long predicted that the day would arrive when the Fed would monetize government debt, but I hoped that it would never come. Because hope alone is a terrible investment strategy, I prepared for this event years ago by accumulating gold and silver as the core of my portfolio.

But now the rules have changed again, we are on a slippery slope, and gold and silver were always meant to be my "transition elements" put there to help shepherd my wealth through the transition period as the world's fascination shifted from "paper" to "things."

Now that we're "almost there" in terms of the required shift in perception necessary to call an end to one period (the "king dollar" period) and mark the beginning of another, it's time to begin considering the places, timing and ways that these transition elements can be redeployed to take advantage of the second part of this story.

In particular, concerned minds are looking for answers to questions about what might happen next and how to insulate oneself from monetary madness.
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Postby Monker » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:42 pm

Seven Wishes wrote:Well, then you're about as short-sighted as Stevie Wonder, and have the intuition of a clam. Unless the no-ideas GOP discovers a magic elixir for the disaster it was primarily responsible for creating, finds a viable leader for a run at the Presidency in 2012, and can find a way to stem off the recovering economy before the end of next year...and finds a way to subdue the radical Tea Baggers before they self-destruct in the Republicans' ever-diminishing tent...your "high" will be as short-lived as the last toke off the proverbial bong...as much of a long-term guarantee as the Italian Parliament.


Have they not made it clear that they do not want to 'fix' anything? All they want to do is repeal Health Care and stop anything Obama wants to pass in Congress....and then point to the Democrats as the problem and why everything isn't rosey.

As for the Tea Party, I think they are a double-edged sword for Republicans. They helped win the House...but they also are directly at fault for not taking the Senate. In the end, if they don't get what they want, I wouldn't be too surprised if they start talking about splitting from the Republicans and forming their own third party. The problem for Republicans is the Tea Party does not follow the traditional litmus tests on social/moral issues. And, yes, that is a problem because pro-military spending, anti-abortion, pro-Christianity, etc, are the wedge issues that Republicans use to win against Democrats....and most politicians in general are not going to vote for defunding and/or privatizing social programs...which are the type of litmus tests the Tea Party would use. So, I can see a lot of infighting happening - just as what used to happen to Democrats having to appease special interests and unions. To integrate the Tea Party into the Republican agenda is going to be interesting to watch, IMO.
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Postby slucero » Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:37 pm

Seven Wishes wrote:As a percentage of the GDP, the QE2 is relatively small and, I believe, won't have much impact one way or the other. I don't think it will have the desired effect because unregulated banks no longer make loans based upon their reserves.

A multi-millionaire (I mention this because he had made millions in spite of being extremely compassionate) broker friend of mine explained quantitative easing in layman's terms to me the other day. I'll paraphrase.

Hyperinflation only occurs when there is: 1) excessive unemployment (i.e. 25% or greater), 2) a marked decrease in tax revenue (hence the plan to tax the rich at...gasp...2002 rates of almost 3% higher, heaven forbid), 3) infrastrurcture collapses, and 4) productive capacity is zero.

None of those conditions exist or will come to pass. In the end, the Fed will get a passing grade for this, as it won't hurt or help at all.



1, 2 and 4 are pretty close if not there already... #3 (infrastructure collapse) will most likely occur as a consequence of 1, 2 and 4.

1) excessive unemployment (i.e. 25% or greater),


Pretty darn close... Depression era peak was considered 25%...

Image
http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-emp ... 1288963778

2) a marked decrease in tax revenue (hence the plan to tax the rich at...gasp...2002 rates of almost 3% higher, heaven forbid),


When viewed vs. spending... its in freefall... (pardon the Heritage Org chart.. but the data is OMB)

Image


3) infrastrurcture collapses,


I'm assuming your friend meant some sort of collapse in the form of banking system.. when referring to "infrastructure collapse"... I'm not sure what he/she meant...

4) productive capacity is zero.


I'm assuming you mean the productive capacity measured by GDP... then in terms of "real GDP" it's already below 0 ( the recent number reported will be revised to around 1.4 as the avg of recent revisions is down .6).

The economy must have GDP of 3.0% – 3.5% to simply maintain current employment levels. So in real terms... meaning those 23.9 Million looking (the U6 BEA figure of 17.1%) we are operating BELOW levels considered "productive" capacity-wise...

Image
http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-gdp.gif?hl=ad&t=

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
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Postby Saint John » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:56 am

Fact Finder wrote:Scarborough: Top Democrats in the U.S. Senate Have All Told Me That Obama "Has No Idea What He’s Doing"

"I wish I could give their names...That is what the top Democratic senators are saying"


I've said it before and I'll say it again, the guy knows exactly what he's doing. He hates this country and he's intentionally trying to put it in the shitter. How can people be so blind as to not see that his policies, virtually every single one, is what is always worst for the country. Save every penny you can and you'll have a chance to buy everything for pennies on the dollar when the system crashes. :)
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:02 pm

Dan, come on, dude. One could, with greater reason, say the same thing about his predecessor. In the end, Dubbya was doing what he thought best for this country, Mentat-twisted although his logic may have been. If you didn't notice, America was on the verge of a Great Depression when he took office. So far, that has not happened. You may believe his policies (moderate when viewed without bias) are not in our best interests, but geez...

And LiePaster...until someone names these "Top Democrats" your last post marks your world-record 1,623rd consecutive without merit, substance, fact, truth, or insight.
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Postby Saint John » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:05 pm

Seven Wishes wrote:Dan, come on, dude. One could, with greater reason, say the same thing about his predecessor. In the end, Dubbya was doing what he thought best for this country, Mentat-twisted although his logic may have been. If you didn't notice, America was on the verge of a Great Depression when he took office. So far, that has not happened. You may believe his policies (moderate when viewed without bias) are not in our best interests, but geez...

And LiePaster...until someone names these "Top Democrats" your last post marks your world-record 1,623rd consecutive without merit, substance, fact, truth, or insight.


I'm just trying to spark a little name-calling. It's been far too civil in here lately. :lol:
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Postby StevePerryHair » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:06 pm

Saint John wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:Dan, come on, dude. One could, with greater reason, say the same thing about his predecessor. In the end, Dubbya was doing what he thought best for this country, Mentat-twisted although his logic may have been. If you didn't notice, America was on the verge of a Great Depression when he took office. So far, that has not happened. You may believe his policies (moderate when viewed without bias) are not in our best interests, but geez...

And LiePaster...until someone names these "Top Democrats" your last post marks your world-record 1,623rd consecutive without merit, substance, fact, truth, or insight.


I'm just trying to spark a little name-calling. It's been far too civil in here lately. :lol:


Should I try to step it up a little? :lol:
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