President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[conversationpc]

Off-topic here, but has anyone heard Geoff Tate's contribution to the Metal Sintara album "Summer Wind"? What an amazing pile of shit THAT is. It sounds like Tennessee Williams meets Spandau Ballet, Krokus, and Accept. It has my nomination for the worst cover, ever. EVER.

If it's anything like the steaming pile of crap that his solo album was, then it must be really bad.

[Rockindeano]

FF, when you're on this subject, you're "LieFinder".

Otherwise, I've found you to be increasingly insightful and relatively impartial recently - a refreshing change. But, for the love of Pete, leave this one alone. If the "birther" idea were a sentinent being, it would have taken form, died, and its corpse decimated and descirated until there was naught left but a few bones and dust.

Off-topic here, but has anyone heard Geoff Tate's contribution to the Metal Sintara album "Summer Wind"? What an amazing pile of shit THAT is. It sounds like Tennessee Williams meets Spandau Ballet, Krokus, and Accept. It has my nomination for the worst cover, ever. EVER.

The fact that you even know how Krokus and Accept sound is embarrassing as fuck, 7. Krokus? Accept? Good lord. And Geoff Tate...do you folks know how close he came to becoming Journey's lead singer? real close....Neal told me he was almost signing the contract when something came up.

[conversationpc]

looks like there have been more jobs created over the past year than the previous president's time in office. we've got a long road back, but it is promising. look at our auto manufaturing just shy of 30,00 to toyota for the best! great to think of "made in america" making a much needed comeback

I'll start putting some credence in those numbers when the unemployment rate gets anywhere within a light year of what it was previous to Obama's time in office.

[Rockindeano]

looks like there have been more jobs created over the past year than the previous president's time in office. we've got a long road back, but it is promising. look at our auto manufaturing just shy of 30,00 to toyota for the best! great to think of "made in america" making a much needed comeback

I'll start putting some credence in those numbers when the unemployment rate gets anywhere within a light year of what it was previous to Obama's time in office.

Oh the economy is improving in all aspects...unemployment, jobs created, etc etc...the question is will it be enough come election day 2012.....You Obama hating Cons are going to start gripping and hoping the economy stalls or slips...I know Rush and his pals are hoping for a major slip in the economy.

[conversationpc]

looks like there have been more jobs created over the past year than the previous president's time in office. we've got a long road back, but it is promising. look at our auto manufaturing just shy of 30,00 to toyota for the best! great to think of "made in america" making a much needed comeback

I'll start putting some credence in those numbers when the unemployment rate gets anywhere within a light year of what it was previous to Obama's time in office.

Oh the economy is improving in all aspects...unemployment, jobs created, etc etc...the question is will it be enough come election day 2012.....You Obama hating Cons are going to start gripping and hoping the economy stalls or slips...I know Rush and his pals are hoping for a major slip in the economy.

Sorry, but I'd rather "suffer" through another four years of Obama and have the economy recover than to have it continue to suck and have a different President. I'm not going to play that game.

...and don't tell me that there weren't tons of libs salivating over the looming economic problems when Obama & McCain were slugging it out.

[Rhiannon]

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

[Lula]

looks like there have been more jobs created over the past year than the previous president's time in office. we've got a long road back, but it is promising. look at our auto manufaturing just shy of 30,00 to toyota for the best! great to think of "made in america" making a much needed comeback

I'll start putting some credence in those numbers when the unemployment rate gets anywhere within a light year of what it was previous to Obama's time in office.

is this not correct then?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economi ... Symbol=USD


Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2010 9.70 9.70 9.70 9.90 9.70 9.50 9.50 9.60 9.60 9.60 9.80 9.40
2009 7.70 8.20 8.60 8.90 9.40 9.50 9.40 9.70 9.80 10.10 10.00 10.00
2008 5.00 4.80 5.10 5.00 5.40 5.50 5.80 6.10 6.20 6.60 6.90 7.40

* The table above displays the monthly average.

[conversationpc]

looks like there have been more jobs created over the past year than the previous president's time in office. we've got a long road back, but it is promising. look at our auto manufaturing just shy of 30,00 to toyota for the best! great to think of "made in america" making a much needed comeback

I'll start putting some credence in those numbers when the unemployment rate gets anywhere within a light year of what it was previous to Obama's time in office.

is this not correct then?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economi ... Symbol=USD


Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2010 9.70 9.70 9.70 9.90 9.70 9.50 9.50 9.60 9.60 9.60 9.80 9.40
2009 7.70 8.20 8.60 8.90 9.40 9.50 9.40 9.70 9.80 10.10 10.00 10.00
2008 5.00 4.80 5.10 5.00 5.40 5.50 5.80 6.10 6.20 6.60 6.90 7.40

* The table above displays the monthly average.

I don't know if it's correct or not but that's not really even my point. You guys on the left claimed for years that the economy sucked despite the numbers and now that the numbers do pretty much still suck, you're claiming that it's either good or improving. The fact is that the economy wasn't quite as good as some people thought years ago and the underlying problems that were there then are still here now and neither party is really doing much other than window dressing to fix the situation.

[Lula]

okay dave. i think we stated the decline with clinton and bush went ahead and buried us (both with the help of our elected representarives). the tax cuts during war time was by far the most ridiculous thing ever, imho.

i am not overjoyed by any means. i live in a state that is broke. furlough days have hurt me and my son big time. i just have to believe we are climbing out of our recession based on the reports by folks who know this stuff.

[conversationpc]

okay dave. i think we stated the decline with clinton and bush went ahead and buried us (both with the help of our elected representarives). the tax cuts during war time was by far the most ridiculous thing ever, imho.

i am not overjoyed by any means. i live in a state that is broke. furlough days have hurt me and my son big time. i just have to believe we are climbing out of our recession based on the reports by folks who know this stuff.

I think our economic decline started way back in the early part of the 20th century by instituting government programs that started getting people dependent on government instead of themselves and others. EVERY President since then has perpetuated it to some extent.

[Lula]

okay dave. i think we stated the decline with clinton and bush went ahead and buried us (both with the help of our elected representarives). the tax cuts during war time was by far the most ridiculous thing ever, imho.

i am not overjoyed by any means. i live in a state that is broke. furlough days have hurt me and my son big time. i just have to believe we are climbing out of our recession based on the reports by folks who know this stuff.

I think our economic decline started way back in the early part of the 20th century by instituting government programs that started getting people dependent on government instead of themselves and others. EVERY President since then has perpetuated it to some extent.

you know my position on social issues . i do think we need serious welfare reform though, especially the system here in california. way too many people have welfare as a lifestyle. it is there to help and should be limited and carefully monitored. government programs have helped many peolpe reach a better life and as a tax payer and able bodied, i am happy to help provide for others less fortunate. what i have a gigantic problem with is the amount of money our elected officilas make, they don't represent us and it pisses me off!!

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

eek!! a birther!! come on, really?



looks like there have been more jobs created over the past year than the previous president's time in office. )

Experts in econometrics say that the US has to create 250,000 + jobs per month to keep up with the rate of population growth. Not even close yet. Another measure is new claims for unemployment - if the unemployment number is coming down there needs to be less than 370,000 new claims per week - not even close.

Outside the numbers, if you talk to recruiters, corpoarates are hiring new people, but small businesses are not. Joblessness wont fall unless small business can hire.

[lights1961]

okay dave. i think we stated the decline with clinton and bush went ahead and buried us (both with the help of our elected representarives). the tax cuts during war time was by far the most ridiculous thing ever, imho.

i am not overjoyed by any means. i live in a state that is broke. furlough days have hurt me and my son big time. i just have to believe we are climbing out of our recession based on the reports by folks who know this stuff.

I think our economic decline started way back in the early part of the 20th century by instituting government programs that started getting people dependent on government instead of themselves and others. EVERY President since then has perpetuated it to some extent.

you know my position on social issues . i do think we need serious welfare reform though, especially the system here in california. way too many people have welfare as a lifestyle. it is there to help and should be limited and carefully monitored. government programs have helped many peolpe reach a better life and as a tax payer and able bodied, i am happy to help provide for others less fortunate. what i have a gigantic problem with is the amount of money our elected officilas make, they don't represent us and it pisses me off!!

every govt handout eventually leads and to a lifestyle... and entitlement... thats why we have the problems we have....you summed it up pretty good here... I tghought you were liberal????

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Off-topic here, but has anyone heard Geoff Tate's contribution to the Metal Sintara album "Summer Wind"? What an amazing pile of shit THAT is. It sounds like Tennessee Williams meets Spandau Ballet, Krokus, and Accept. It has my nomination for the worst cover, ever. EVER.

If it's anything like the steaming pile of crap that his solo album was, then it must be really bad.

Shit, the first thing in this thread EVERYONE can agree with. Indeed pure and utter feces.

[S2M]

I don't cut & paste so my posts are basically ignored in this thread....BUT....I'd just like a candidate who says fuck you to the washington status quo and basically does a country tour listening to the common man and actually listens to the plights of the american public. I've been bitchslapped more than once whilst talking about the electoral college, and how we aren't really a democracy - but a republic. While in the meantime, our military is having a grand ole time spreading that non-existent democracy....I'm not exactly sure about everything the tea-party movement stands for, or even why they chose that name....but as far back as 15 years ago I was telling my friends that we need to have another tea party because we aren't being represented in washington. We have people voting republican just so they can own a gun. We have others voting for a man JUST because of his skin color, or because he will allow your illegal relatives to not only stay in the country, but keep coming across the border. We have republicans who are voicing outrage against a health bill that they themselves wanted to put into place when they were in office. Now, they want it on the record that they want it repealed - just so they have a jump on the american vote in 2012. They really couldn't care less if it IS repealed. They just want it known and politized that they are lockstep with the supposed american pulse. You know its funny....who really knows about these poll numbers? A poll comes out that the majority of americans are against the bill(may or MAY NOT be true) - then the next step is the non-custodial presidential party clinging to that possibly fake number as a way to get elected in 2012. I don't trust polls, and neither should the american people. These washington fucks are raking in 6 digits to stand in front of a podium all day, defering the remainder of their time to the distinguished senator from Wyoming. Meanwhile, Joe american can't pay his fucking mortgage.

....to be continued, because I can't wait to come in here in a few hours and read the absolute utter trash that will be portrayed here about Obama and the Dems regarding the SoTU Address....

[Lula]

i'm all for cleaning house in washington and starting over. our government is not representative of the backbone of our country. we are losing the middle class and we have two parties in power- one for the rich and one for the poor. i like s2m's idea about the prez traveling the states and talking to us, the working class and heart and soul of our country. our elected officials need to be one of us, not owned by all the special interest groups. i'm really tired of this crap.

[S2M]

Well S2M, one thing Obama is supposed to say tonight is that he proposes a Freeze in spending. That's not going to cut it, we need cuts and we need them now. Even the Pubbies proposal for 250b a year in cuts for 10 years ain't enough. We need at least a Trillion cut and tax breaks for small business and Cap gains tax cuts and business tax cuts to get this thing going. We also need to drill for some damn oil right here and in the Gulf. Get gas back to $1.50 a gallon a watch this economy roar.

How about Washington taking a pay cut?

[RedWingFan]

Well S2M, one thing Obama is supposed to say tonight is that he proposes a Freeze in spending. That's not going to cut it, we need cuts and we need them now.

Yeah he proposes this after increasing spending by 87%.

"That's like me maxing out the credit cards then telling the family. Okay, no more new spending on the credit cards. We need to put a freeze on that."

First thing we need to do is cut that same 87% of this disaster.

[S2M]

Well S2M, one thing Obama is supposed to say tonight is that he proposes a Freeze in spending. That's not going to cut it, we need cuts and we need them now. Even the Pubbies proposal for 250b a year in cuts for 10 years ain't enough. We need at least a Trillion cut and tax breaks for small business and Cap gains tax cuts and business tax cuts to get this thing going. We also need to drill for some damn oil right here and in the Gulf. Get gas back to $1.50 a gallon a watch this economy roar.

How about Washington taking a pay cut?

Damn straight, 10% starting tomorrow and cut the gov workforce 10% too...and that's just before lunch..

I'm serious. I'm sure some of those politicians make $200,000 a year....how about cutting that in half. They don't even deserve that.

[slucero]

looks like there have been more jobs created over the past year than the previous president's time in office. we've got a long road back, but it is promising. look at our auto manufaturing just shy of 30,00 to toyota for the best! great to think of "made in america" making a much needed comeback

I'll start putting some credence in those numbers when the unemployment rate gets anywhere within a light year of what it was previous to Obama's time in office.

is this not correct then?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economi ... Symbol=USD


Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2010 9.70 9.70 9.70 9.90 9.70 9.50 9.50 9.60 9.60 9.60 9.80 9.40
2009 7.70 8.20 8.60 8.90 9.40 9.50 9.40 9.70 9.80 10.10 10.00 10.00
2008 5.00 4.80 5.10 5.00 5.40 5.50 5.80 6.10 6.20 6.60 6.90 7.40

* The table above displays the monthly average.

You might wanna get a bit more edumacated on the topic before you start dancing on tables...


The Bureau of Labor Statistics has 6 measures of unemployment:

• U1: This is the proportion of the civilian labor force that has been unemployed for 15 weeks or longer. This unemployment rate measures workers who are chronically unemployed. During business-cycle expansions, this rate captures structural unemployment. However, during lengthy business-cycle contractions, this rate is also likely to include a significant amount of cyclical unemployment. U1 tends to be relatively small, in the range of 1-2 percent.
  
• U2: This is the proportion of the civilian labor force that is classified as job losers (workers who have been involuntarily fired or laid off from their jobs) and people who have completed temporary jobs. During business-cycle expansions, this rate is likely to capture some degree of frictional unemployment. However, during business-cycle contractions, this rate is most likely to consist of cyclical unemployment. U2 is larger than U1, but still remains substantially less than the official unemployment rate (U3).
  
• U3: This is the official unemployment rate, which is the proportion of the civilian labor force that is unemployed but actively seeking employment.
  
• U4: This is the official unemployment rate that is adjusted for discouraged workers. In other words, discouraged workers are treated just like other workers who are officially classified as unemployed, being included in both the ranks of the unemployed and the labor force. It is technically specified as the proportion of the civilian labor force (plus discouraged workers) that is either unemployed but actively seeking employment or discouraged workers. The addition of discouraged workers generally adds a few tenths of a percentage point to the official unemployment rate.
  
• U5: This augments U4 by including marginally-attached workers to the unemployment rate calculation. Marginally attached workers are potential workers who have given up seeking employment for various reasons. One of these reasons is that the workers believe such effort would be futile, which places them in the discouraged worker category. Those who have other reasons for not seeking employment are placed in the broader marginally-attached workers category. The addition of marginally-attached workers adds a few more tenths of a percentage point to the official unemployment rate.
  
• U6: This augments U5 by including part-time workers to the unemployment rate calculation. The addition of part-time workers adds a full 2-3 percentage points to the official unemployment rate. This measure of unemployment is perhaps the most comprehensive measure of labor resource unemployment available.

The unemployment rate commonly used by the government is the "U-3" number... but the most complete measure of unemployment is the U-6 number..

The tables below are from the Bureau of Labor Statistics website.


This is what the government reports (and most believe) is real unemployment...





THIS is the real number...








....but wait it gets more interesting... or confusing....


When we look at the Civilian Labor Force Vs. the Civilian Labor Force Participation Rate... the drop in the U3 Rate (9.8 to 9.4) takes on a whole new meaning...








For the month of Dec there was a 260,000 person DECLINE in the Labor Force... but how can that be? More people died than were born? People give up looking for work? Most all economists agree the economy has to CREATE 250,000 NEW JOBS per month just to keep up with those entering the workforce for the FIRST TIME... hmmmmm....

And the Participation Rate the number went DOWN... so if unemployment was going DOWN... wouldn't the participation rate be going... UP?


So the number the government tells you... doesn't necessarily mean what you think it does...

[Rockindeano]

Well S2M, one thing Obama is supposed to say tonight is that he proposes a Freeze in spending. That's not going to cut it, we need cuts and we need them now. Even the Pubbies proposal for 250b a year in cuts for 10 years ain't enough. We need at least a Trillion cut and tax breaks for small business and Cap gains tax cuts and business tax cuts to get this thing going. We also need to drill for some damn oil right here and in the Gulf. Get gas back to $1.50 a gallon a watch this economy roar.

How about Washington taking a pay cut?

Damn straight, 10% starting tomorrow and cut the gov workforce 10% too...and that's just before lunch..

You just don't get it. It is clear you are nothing but a parrot from Rush, who also doesn't have a clue, yet gets his minions to believe his rhetoric.

Cutting the Govt workforce by 10%? Where do you thonk these people will then go? The programs that they are tied to go where/ Man, think before you speak.

[Monker]

Well S2M, one thing Obama is supposed to say tonight is that he proposes a Freeze in spending. That's not going to cut it, we need cuts and we need them now. Even the Pubbies proposal for 250b a year in cuts for 10 years ain't enough. We need at least a Trillion cut and tax breaks for small business and Cap gains tax cuts and business tax cuts to get this thing going. We also need to drill for some damn oil right here and in the Gulf. Get gas back to $1.50 a gallon a watch this economy roar.

How about Washington taking a pay cut?

Damn straight, 10% starting tomorrow and cut the gov workforce 10% too...and that's just before lunch..

You just don't get it. It is clear you are nothing but a parrot from Rush, who also doesn't have a clue, yet gets his minions to believe his rhetoric.

Cutting the Govt workforce by 10%? Where do you thonk these people will then go? The programs that they are tied to go where/ Man, think before you speak.

Out of my life and back to the private sector where they'll do less damage. Cut the business taxes and these people will find jobs that don't suck on the taxpayers teet.

That is so fucking stupid. The states do this all the time and all it does is add to unemployment....and it is nowhere NEAR the trillion that needs to be done.

If you want to be SERIOUS about cutting the budget, there are only two things that matter: the military budget, which Republicans won't do. And, Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid...which nobody will do, because of the senior vote. Everything else is just peanuts and virtually meaningless.

So, good luck at keeping the Tea Party vote...and the senior vote...and your military budget. Do what needs to be done, and you'll be voted out. Don't do it, and you lose support of the Tea party, that vote tilted a few elections last time. Not everything can be tied to Health Care....at least not forever.

[Monker]

For the month of Dec there was a 260,000 person DECLINE in the Labor Force... but how can that be? More people died than were born? People give up looking for work? Most all economists agree the economy has to CREATE 250,000 NEW JOBS per month just to keep up with those entering the workforce for the FIRST TIME... hmmmmm....

And the Participation Rate the number went DOWN... so if unemployment was going DOWN... wouldn't the participation rate be going... UP?


So the number the government tells you... doesn't necessarily mean what you think it does...

The baby boomers are also retiring. There are simply not enough new employees entering the workforce to replace them. I'm sure it can't account for all of that number, but it has to contribute to it.

This fact also affects Social Security, since the current workforce pays for the current retirees taking benefits. It also affects financial institutions who maintain 401k and other retirement benefits - since more people will be withdrawing benefits then contributing.

[RossValoryRocks]

Well S2M, one thing Obama is supposed to say tonight is that he proposes a Freeze in spending. That's not going to cut it, we need cuts and we need them now. Even the Pubbies proposal for 250b a year in cuts for 10 years ain't enough. We need at least a Trillion cut and tax breaks for small business and Cap gains tax cuts and business tax cuts to get this thing going. We also need to drill for some damn oil right here and in the Gulf. Get gas back to $1.50 a gallon a watch this economy roar.

How about Washington taking a pay cut?

Damn straight, 10% starting tomorrow and cut the gov workforce 10% too...and that's just before lunch..

I'm serious. I'm sure some of those politicians make $200,000 a year....how about cutting that in half. They don't even deserve that.

They talk about performance pay for teachers...so how about performance pay for Congress and the President...they all get paid at the median income level of the country...so as they work to get that higher they get paid more?

[Rockindeano]

Am I the only one here who turned off the State of the Union? It was slow, went nowhere, talked too much about education, none about jobs(at least the first 35 minutes were w/o job talk), and what the fuck was Obama stammering around on? He didn't have any Congresional attention, Boehner looked ridiculous up there in his fake tan...seriously, he is 3 shades darker than the African American president! This is the first SOTU I turned off and I went and watched the Oilers game...the fucking Oilers game, people! Whomever is Obama's speech writer needs to find work elsewhere. The only enlightening moment I saw was when Obama was touting High Speed Rail and investment, and said trains will get you to where you are going to faster than air in many cases, and you will do so "without the pat down."

Boring speech IMHO.

[Rockindeano]

And before I go to bed, lookie here....Do you believe in Miracles? Hold onto your socks people....Fox News, that fair and balanced news agency actually has a report out which is detrimental to the GOP.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01 ... ctivities/

I cannot believe my eyes.

PS- Fuck you Murdoch, OReilly, Hannity, Beck, Rove, Palin, and Hume.

[donnaplease]

Am I the only one here who turned off the State of the Union? It was slow, went nowhere, talked too much about education, none about jobs(at least the first 35 minutes were w/o job talk), and what the fuck was Obama stammering around on? He didn't have any Congresional attention, Boehner looked ridiculous up there in his fake tan...seriously, he is 3 shades darker than the African American president! This is the first SOTU I turned off and I went and watched the Oilers game...the fucking Oilers game, people! Whomever is Obama's speech writer needs to find work elsewhere. The only enlightening moment I saw was when Obama was touting High Speed Rail and investment, and said trains will get you to where you are going to faster than air in many cases, and you will do so "without the pat down."

Boring speech IMHO.

I watched most of it. Although I thought it was a decent speech, I found it hard to believe in him. I guess I'm jaded by his words after all the months (in reality I guess years) of his incessant yammering on about how horrible the republicans and Bush were. His tone is changed, more talk about "doing it together" which is definitely a good thing, but I just think he's disingenuous.

Then again, I think all SOTU speeches are boring... Did you watch Ryan's or Bachman's rebuttals? I fell asleep.

[conversationpc]

And before I go to bed, lookie here....Do you believe in Miracles? Hold onto your socks people....Fox News, that fair and balanced news agency actually has a report out which is detrimental to the GOP.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01 ... ctivities/

I cannot believe my eyes.

PS- Fuck you Murdoch, OReilly, Hannity, Beck, Rove, Palin, and Hume.

I posted this article on Facebook yesterday. Not surprising at all.

[Saint John]

the African American president!

He's actually "bi-racial." There is no such thing as "African American" in the way it's commonly, but mistakenly, used. They're black American, save for the few that have actually come here after their birth in lovely spots of Africa, like Libya, Algeria, Sudan, Rwanda and Somalia. If he were "African American" he wouldn't be able to be president. You're not a birther are you?

[lights1961]

I watched grumpy old men... It was on CMT last night...