President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby RossValoryRocks » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:44 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
treetopovskaya wrote:maybe i should write a letter to obama & his staff... i need a few things.

*rolls eyes*

(fact finder... i LOVE your new sig... funny AND true!)


You do realize the Merrill Lynch Exec who recently resigned in disgrace after squandering 1.2 million on designer trashcans and couture toilets was one of Team McCain’s economic advisors, right?
Lump him together with Phil Graham, the man responsible for lighting the subprime fuse and McCain’s Secretary of the Treasury pick, and it’s safe to say America just barely missed a bullet.
No thanks to outhouse inbreds like you and the Wasilla soccer skank, of course.


Yeah Graham did a number...but really...it was Barney Frank and others of the far left mindset that REALLY lit it off...at best you can say Graham built the fuse...the Dem's lit it however...Oh yeah...and that guy who was President who signed on to Graham's vision??? What was his name...oh that's right...Clinton...a Democrat...but he doesn't bare any responsibility...how typically one sided of you! :lol:
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:46 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
conversationpc wrote:It seems to me that you're stretching Lincoln's quote way past what he ever intended it to be construed as. He went on to say...

Abraham Lincoln wrote:In all that the people can individually do as well for themselves, government ought not to interfere. The desirable things which the individuals of a people can not do, or can not well do, for themselves, fall into two classes: those which have relation to wrongs, and those which have not. Each of these branch off into an infinite variety of subdivisions. The first that in relation to wrongs embraces all crimes, misdemeanors, and nonperformance of contracts. The other embraces all which, in its nature, and without wrong, requires combined action, as public roads and highways, public schools, charities, pauperism, orphanage, estates of the deceased, and the machinery of government itself. From this it appears that if all men were just, there still would be some, though not so much, need for government.


It can be argued that government should not be interjecting itself into the economy in the way it is with this bill and with the previous Bush-led bailout bill that passed a few months ago.


Unlike the revisionist-prone GOP, who want all of the credit and none of the blame, (‘JFK was actually a Conservative!’, ‘George W. Bush was a liberal!’), I’m not here to retroactively chisel capital D’s on the granite foreheads at Mt. Rushmore.
That understood, what you added to Lincoln's quote changes nothing.
In fact, the enumerated government responsibilities you list (public roads, highways, public schools, et al.) read a whole lot like Obama's stimulus bill.


Revisionist prone GOP? This from the master of revisionist history. You really ought to be in comedy man, you are wasting your life in whatever your occupation currently is, you could make a KILLING doing stand up!
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:03 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:Yeah Graham did a number...but really...it was Barney Frank and others of the far left mindset that REALLY lit it off...at best you can say Graham built the fuse...the Dem's lit it however...


This is bogus.
The Right Wing, who for years had proudly led a deregulatory crusade, were quick to point fingers at Frank or other disproven canards like the Community Reinvestment Act before the facts were in.

RossValoryRocks wrote:Oh yeah...and that guy who was President who signed on to Graham's vision??? What was his name...oh that's right...Clinton...a Democrat...but he doesn't bare any responsibility...how typically one sided of you! :lol:


You mean the same Bill Clinton that Ayn Rand disciple and deregulatory zealot, Alan Greenspan, lauded as "the Best Republican President We Ever Had."
Pretty much says it all right there.

And I never said Graham was singularly responsible.
In fact, I was the first guy on this forum to mention Glass-Steagall in conjunction with the Clinton administration.

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Postby conversationpc » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:11 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:That understood, what you added to Lincoln's quote changes nothing.

In fact, the enumerated government responsibilities you list (public roads, highways, public schools, et al.) read a whole lot like Obama's stimulus bill.


If you really think that all the additional perks, pork, and other unnecessary items in Obama's so-called stimulus bill are anything like what Lincoln would support then you really do need to be disconnected from your jack-booted masters' radio frequency.

Let's see...Do you think Lincoln would REALLY support the following?

  • A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.
  • $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.
  • $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.
  • $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD’s.
  • $75 million for smoking cessation.
  • $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
  • $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
  • $1.2 billion for “youth activities,” including youth summer job programs.


and on...and on...and on...

None of this stuff is directed towards nor should be in a bill called a "stimulus" package.
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Postby Rick » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:14 am

conversationpc wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:That understood, what you added to Lincoln's quote changes nothing.

In fact, the enumerated government responsibilities you list (public roads, highways, public schools, et al.) read a whole lot like Obama's stimulus bill.


If you really think that all the additional perks, pork, and other unnecessary items in Obama's so-called stimulus bill are anything like what Lincoln would support then you really do need to be disconnected from your jack-booted masters' radio frequency.

Let's see...Do you think Lincoln would REALLY support the following?

  • A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.
  • $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.
  • $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.
  • $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD’s.
  • $75 million for smoking cessation.
  • $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
  • $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
  • $1.2 billion for “youth activities,” including youth summer job programs.

and on...and on...and on...

None of this stuff is directed towards nor should be in a bill called a "stimulus" package.


Nothing in there for the porn industry? What'll they do? :lol:
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Postby bluejeangirl76 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:21 am

Rick wrote:Nothing in there for the porn industry? What'll they do? :lol:


Anything and everyone.
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Postby Uno_up » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:52 am

Here's the thing...Obama has over a 60 percent approval rating! Congress has less than a 10 percent approval rating. You mean to tell me the President couldn't have designed a bill himself and then, in turn sold it to Congress and the American people? Who are the American people going to trust more? Just don't cave to their pressure! Give us $800 billion worth of stuff that makes sense and force it down Congress' throat. Even if they did try to quash it, he'd get an 8pm slot on every major network and call them out for vetoing his TRUE financial stimulus package.

All he had to do was look someone like Pelosi in the face and tell her that if she didn't vote for his bill, he'd campaign against her in 2010. That'd scare the shit out of anyone.

He's got so much political capital, yet he didn't use it. And the press never called him on it. Sad.
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Postby AlteredDNA » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:59 am

Uno_up wrote:Here's the thing...Obama has over a 60 percent approval rating! Congress has less than a 10 percent approval rating. You mean to tell me the President couldn't have designed a bill himself and then, in turn sold it to Congress and the American people? Who are the American people going to trust more? Just don't cave to their pressure! Give us $800 billion worth of stuff that makes sense and force it down Congress' throat. Even if they did try to quash it, he'd get an 8pm slot on every major network and call them out for vetoing his TRUE financial stimulus package.

All he had to do was look someone like Pelosi in the face and tell her that if she didn't vote for his bill, he'd campaign against her in 2010. That'd scare the shit out of anyone.

He's got so much political capital, yet he didn't use it. And the press never called him on it. Sad.


You're assuming that Obama wants a different bill from what Congress is coming up with...
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Postby Uno_up » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:14 pm

AlteredDNA wrote:
Uno_up wrote:Here's the thing...Obama has over a 60 percent approval rating! Congress has less than a 10 percent approval rating. You mean to tell me the President couldn't have designed a bill himself and then, in turn sold it to Congress and the American people? Who are the American people going to trust more? Just don't cave to their pressure! Give us $800 billion worth of stuff that makes sense and force it down Congress' throat. Even if they did try to quash it, he'd get an 8pm slot on every major network and call them out for vetoing his TRUE financial stimulus package.

All he had to do was look someone like Pelosi in the face and tell her that if she didn't vote for his bill, he'd campaign against her in 2010. That'd scare the shit out of anyone.

He's got so much political capital, yet he didn't use it. And the press never called him on it. Sad.


You're assuming that Obama wants a different bill from what Congress is coming up with...


I do, and it's because of the wordgames being played. Whether you call it pork or benchmarks, it's still a big-assed waste of money and Obama is doing the American people a huge disservice by passing this. How can he NOT see this? The Wall Street Journal reported this week that only 12 percent of this bill, at best, accounts for new jobs this year. Twelve percent! The remaining portions of the bill are for pet projects. I mean, why is it not wiser to simply give it to every American citizen instead? Take the total of the package, divide it by every LEGAL American citizen and send them that much money. When they spend it, then we'd really have $900 billion going into the economy.

I honestly think Obama's heart is in the right place. But I also believe that this man is so popular that he could have drafted a bill the way he wanted it and sold it to both Congress and the American people. Instead, he let Pelosi and the tax and spend liberals in the House write the bill and its now LOADED with their own pet projects. In my opinion, this was a huge mistake.
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Postby conversationpc » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:30 pm

Uno_up wrote:I honestly think Obama's heart is in the right place. But I also believe that this man is so popular that he could have drafted a bill the way he wanted it and sold it to both Congress and the American people. Instead, he let Pelosi and the tax and spend liberals in the House write the bill and its now LOADED with their own pet projects. In my opinion, this was a huge mistake.


I honestly don't think Obama's heart is in the right place, necessarily. Here's a guy who spent 20+ years in that bigot's church in Chicago simply to play the political game that is played there. He's no less of a player in the political arena than anyone else is.
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Postby Uno_up » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:46 pm

conversationpc wrote:
Uno_up wrote:I honestly think Obama's heart is in the right place. But I also believe that this man is so popular that he could have drafted a bill the way he wanted it and sold it to both Congress and the American people. Instead, he let Pelosi and the tax and spend liberals in the House write the bill and its now LOADED with their own pet projects. In my opinion, this was a huge mistake.


I honestly don't think Obama's heart is in the right place, necessarily. Here's a guy who spent 20+ years in that bigot's church in Chicago simply to play the political game that is played there. He's no less of a player in the political arena than anyone else is.


I agree, Dave...I hate that about him. Really hate that.

Here's a guy who had the chance to grow some balls and not cave to political pressure, yet he's still trying to get a bill laden with pork passed. If he had balls he'd have presented an intelligently prepared package that does nothing but pour oodles of cash into the economy. If and when Congress denied it he simply faces the nation on national TV and calls them out for the bullshit they are trying to pull over on this country. Obama really needs to bend Congress (both parties) over his knee and lance them all for the boils that they are. I mean lay them out! It's been a long time coming and time for the people to speak. All the cosmic tumblers are in alignment! I realize he could potentially alienate his own party and risk his re-election possibilities. Heavens forbid a candidate actually have the balls to do something like that a whole four years before another election. Grow a sack, take a public stand, get the freaking job done the right way and tell Pelosi and the rest of the hacks to go fuck themselves with their pork, turn the economy around and America will revere you as a hero and you'll run away with the next election in spite of pissing in Pelosi's face. That's what a leader needs to do.


I love Jon Stewart's bailout proposal...
Rather then give the money to the banks, give the money to the people who have mortgages and mandate that they put the money to their mortgages. That way the banks get their money and the people who had mortgages can now start buying things and stimulating the economy. Everyone is happy.
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Postby AlteredDNA » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:37 am

http://apcheck.blogspot.com/2009/02/pla ... ietta.html

Address For "Homeless Woman" At Obama's Town Hall Meeting Found!
A quick people search shows one Henrietta Hughes, 61 years old, in Fort Myers who has an address and phone number. Looks like she has a home after all. Peoplefinder also shows an available address though Hughes claims she has been homeless for more than a year. It also corroborates that she has a son (37 years old).

Everyone's abuzz over Henrietta Hughes, the supposedly homeless woman who somehow gained front row tickets to Obama's town meeting in Fort Myers, Florida. Michelle Malkin asks "how does a 61 year-old homeless woman who’s living in a pickup truck with her son JUST HAPPEN to get a ticket so she can VERY PUBLICALLY ask Prez. Obama for a HOUSE? She’s right at the front of the crowd. Did she just happen to get a seat there?

Now, within moments of this happening, it’s trumpeted all over the news. AND, surprise, surprise, the wife of State Representative Nick Thompson, Chene Thompson JUST HAPPENS to have a spare house worth $150,000 lying around, so she GIVES it to this unemployed, homeless, living-in-a-truck woman."


I'm sure the press will dig into her background just as quickly and thoroughly as they did with Joe the Plumber... :roll:
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Postby Barb » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:00 am

The people search information may be outdated. The first article indicates she has been homeless for nearly one year. I do find it odd that her son was written about in an article in 2004 and then she shows up front and center at BO's town hall. She probably was a plant, but I see no good coming from ripping apart a 61 year old woman.
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Postby AlteredDNA » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:01 am

Barb wrote:The people search information may be outdated. The first article indicates she has been homeless for nearly one year. I do find it odd that her son was written about in an article in 2004 and then she shows up front and center at BO's town hall. She probably was a plant, but I see no good coming from ripping apart a 61 year old woman.


Agreed...just curious that she does show up more than once.
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Postby Barb » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:51 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Barb wrote:The people search information may be outdated. The first article indicates she has been homeless for nearly one year. I do find it odd that her son was written about in an article in 2004 and then she shows up front and center at BO's town hall. She probably was a plant, but I see no good coming from ripping apart a 61 year old woman.


Yeah, you're right. Probably should just rip apart Ohio plumbers who are conservative.


I don't think that. JTP was in his own front yard and dared to ask His Highness a question. What was done to him was absurd. I personally hold myself to a higher standard than that.
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Postby Barb » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:06 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Barb wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:
Barb wrote:The people search information may be outdated. The first article indicates she has been homeless for nearly one year. I do find it odd that her son was written about in an article in 2004 and then she shows up front and center at BO's town hall. She probably was a plant, but I see no good coming from ripping apart a 61 year old woman.


Yeah, you're right. Probably should just rip apart Ohio plumbers who are conservative.


I don't think that. JTP was in his own front yard and dared to ask His Highness a question. What was done to him was absurd. I personally hold myself to a higher standard than that.



I used to be that way. After JTP and Sarah all bets are off.


Understandable, FF. I just feel sorry for the woman. I'm easily manipulated. :lol:
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:17 am

This is hilarious. Watching FF bitch and moan every 5 minutes, copying and pasting conservative articles, invoking the great Rush Limbaugh and Barb basically following along.

Thank you for the entertainment. I will be sure to check in every day for more updates from GOP HQ here at MR. :D

LOL at FF for quoting Rush, like he is at all relevant.

LOL at Barb for saying, "after what they did to "Sarah" and JTP. Sarah earned all her bitch slaps; a complete empty headed retarded backwoods whore. JTP is just a fucking tool, period. LOL, "what they did to Sarah? That takes the cake.


Please please please, let Rush and Sarah lead you thirsty souls to wherever. I will write a check to Sarah, so she can please be the nominee.

You folk are hilarious.

Thank you sincerely for the laughs.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:21 am

Fact Finder wrote:Barb, I'll say it again, this was staged and Henrietta was a plant. In the video she sure had on a nice dress for just getting up from sleeping in a truck. They are soooo helpless yet somehow score front row seats to Os Town Hall?


Did you even see the town hall?
Obama was tongue-tied by her plea for mercy, and could only muster an impromptu kiss on the cheek.
Lotta good that did. :roll:

Microsoft, Caterpillar, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Starbucks, Ericsson, Kodak, Philips, NBC Universal...these are just some of the companies slashing jobs.
Anyone who thinks this woman was straight out of central casting, or worse, that her plight isn't shared by countless others, simply isn't in touch with reality.
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Postby Barb » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:28 am

Rockindeano wrote:This is hilarious. Watching FF bitch and moan every 5 minutes, copying and pasting conservative articles, invoking the great Rush Limbaugh and Barb basically following along.

Thank you for the entertainment. I will be sure to check in every day for more updates from GOP HQ here at MR. :D

LOL at FF for quoting Rush, like he is at all relevant.

LOL at Barb for saying, "after what they did to "Sarah" and JTP. Sarah earned all her bitch slaps; a complete empty headed retarded backwoods whore. JTP is just a fucking tool, period. LOL, "what they did to Sarah? That takes the cake.


Please please please, let Rush and Sarah lead you thirsty souls to wherever. I will write a check to Sarah, so she can please be the nominee.

You folk are hilarious.

Thank you sincerely for the laughs.


You can leave me out of it. I didn't say anything about what they did to Sarah. :roll:
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:31 am

Barb wrote:
You can leave me out of it. I didn't say anything about what they did to Sarah. :roll:


My apologies. I just re read what I misread.

And secondly, "they" didn't do anything to Sarah. Sarah was just being her stupid twitted self. Endless comedy.
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:32 am

Barb wrote:
You can leave me out of it. I didn't say anything about what they did to Sarah. :roll:


My apologies. I just re read what I misread.

And secondly, "they" didn't do anything to Sarah. Sarah was just being her stupid twitted self. Endless comedy.

By the way, I don't want to argue. TNC is on duty and he does it better than anyone.
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Postby Barb » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:37 am

Rockindeano wrote:
Barb wrote:
You can leave me out of it. I didn't say anything about what they did to Sarah. :roll:


My apologies. I just re read what I misread.

And secondly, "they" didn't do anything to Sarah. Sarah was just being her stupid twitted self. Endless comedy.

By the way, I don't want to argue. TNC is on duty and he does it better than anyone.


I'm not wasting my time arguing politics anymore, either. I'm actually trying to be somewhat reasonable (for me anyway ;) )

I am really, really uneasy about what our government is doing though.
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:45 am

Barb wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
Barb wrote:
You can leave me out of it. I didn't say anything about what they did to Sarah. :roll:


My apologies. I just re read what I misread.

And secondly, "they" didn't do anything to Sarah. Sarah was just being her stupid twitted self. Endless comedy.

By the way, I don't want to argue. TNC is on duty and he does it better than anyone.


I'm not wasting my time arguing politics anymore, either. I'm actually trying to be somewhat reasonable (for me anyway ;) )

I am really, really uneasy about what our government is doing though.


Well, we are in a position that has been created due to poor policy- trickle down, tax cuts for the rich, etc. The GOP's solution is to do nothing. That is not an option.

Here I find myself arguing again. Doh.

FF, the stage is yours, until TNC knocks your sorry ass off. :lol:
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Postby Eric » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:14 am

Rockindeano wrote:
Well, we are in a position that has been created due to poor policy- trickle down, tax cuts for the rich, etc. The GOP's solution is to do nothing. That is not an option.

Here I find myself arguing again. Doh.

FF, the stage is yours, until TNC knocks your sorry ass off. :lol:



Actually, the economy was strong from mid 2002 - mid 2007 because of tax cuts. But ignorant people buying homes they couldn't afford from greedy mortgage companies caused this whole frickin thing to blow. The thing is Dean, an economy has cycles and its best left alone. Paulson tried to stablilize banks, which Hoover didn't do and we shouldn't try to spend our way out of this because as the New Deal showed us....that doesn't work. Only WW2 got us out of the Depression. The best thing to do is to keep rates low and speak positively, which is something Obama is failing at, much like Carter.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:15 am

Eric wrote:...and we shouldn't try to spend our way out of this because as the New Deal showed us....that doesn't work.


Pattently false.
Unemployment went consistently down every year under the New Deal except 37-38 when FDR reigned back spending, raised taxes, and ended up with a recession.
Same thing happened in Japan.

Eric wrote:...Only WW2 got us out of the Depression.


The WW2 defense build-up WAS a massive public works program.
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Postby Eric » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:06 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Eric wrote:...and we shouldn't try to spend our way out of this because as the New Deal showed us....that doesn't work.


Pattently false.
Unemployment went consistently down every year under the New Deal except 37-38 when FDR reigned back spending, raised taxes, and ended up with a recession.
Same thing happened in Japan.

Eric wrote:...Only WW2 got us out of the Depression.


The WW2 defense build-up WAS a massive public works program.


Unemployment figures went down from 25%.....thats not a good argument at all.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:54 am

Eric wrote:Unemployment figures went down from 25%.....thats not a good argument at all.


At its most effective, the New Deal saw unemployment drop by 40%.
Those weren't just pinpoints on a statistician's graph, they were people back to work.
Every bogus right wing argument that says the New Deal didn't work relies looking only at Dow Jones for economic health, and also discounts every public sector job.
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Postby Onestepper » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:04 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Eric wrote:Unemployment figures went down from 25%.....thats not a good argument at all.


At its most effective, the New Deal saw unemployment drop by 40%.
Those weren't just pinpoints on a statistician's graph, they were people back to work.
Every bogus right wing argument that says the New Deal didn't work relies looking only at Dow Jones for economic health, and also discounts every public sector job.


I"m not a huge government solves all problems guy, but when people say the New Deal didn't work, they really are ignoring actual facts. Besides the unemployment numbers that are already noted, they should really take a look at the growth of the nation on several fronts during that time, and immediately afterwards, including industrial growth that grew by over 22%, that does not include any type of war time development. FDR was re-elected by a landslide because people were going back to work. That would not have happened in 48 out of 50 states if the plan didn't work. I just think it's a lazy argument.
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:20 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Eric wrote:Unemployment figures went down from 25%.....thats not a good argument at all.


At its most effective, the New Deal saw unemployment drop by 40%.
Those weren't just pinpoints on a statistician's graph, they were people back to work.
Every bogus right wing argument that says the New Deal didn't work relies looking only at Dow Jones for economic health, and also discounts every public sector job.


Didn't FDR's own Secretary of the Treasury admit that the New Deal crap didn't work?
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:39 am

conversationpc wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Eric wrote:Unemployment figures went down from 25%.....thats not a good argument at all.


At its most effective, the New Deal saw unemployment drop by 40%.
Those weren't just pinpoints on a statistician's graph, they were people back to work.
Every bogus right wing argument that says the New Deal didn't work relies looking only at Dow Jones for economic health, and also discounts every public sector job.


Didn't FDR's own Secretary of the Treasury admit that the New Deal crap didn't work?


Even liberal historians/political scientists and other liberal academics have not looked upon the New Deal kindly. Some of the most liberal professors I took during college disparaged it at one point or another.
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